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Kismit

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So.... is it wrong that I am concerned that the current political situation in America is gradually spiraling into a religious stand off.

With Trump being strongly represented by,as well as being a representative of the Christian Faithful. 

More and more I see, read, and hear religious quotes or people talking about prayer in regards to Trump. It worries me because segregation and feelings of rightful superiority for any race/religion is dangerous. 

 


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Frank Merton

Posted

On 3/17/2017 at 2:43 PM, aka CAT said:

Christ is perfect, we are flawed.

Reading the NT, Jesus comes across as far less than perfect.  He even was known to lose his temper, get depressed, call people names, and so on.

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aka CAT

Posted (edited)

47 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Reading the NT, Jesus comes across as far less than perfect.  He even was known to lose his temper, get depressed, call people names, and so on.

Politically correct isn't perfect.  His outrage at the money changers for turning a temple into a market place should have better served us as a warning, there is a time for everything under the sun including sadness and, if a shoe fits, wear it.  In other words, Christ's calling a spade a spade suggests: If an uncomplimentary characterization applies to one, then he should accept it in order to better himself.  

Edited by aka CAT
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Frank Merton

Posted

I understand, and would say that what you are doing is rationalizing.  Personally I don't think there is such a thing as "perfect." It is all a matter of choice of standards.  Otherwise the Ontological Proof of God would work.

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aka CAT

Posted (edited)

God, the Trinity, is my definition of perfect. I do not believe any of Jesus' behavior bad; therefore, I have no cause to rationalize it.  

Does your not believing in a God preclude your conceptualizing Holy Spirit?  Because, to me, faulting the Holy Spirit is like faulting 'good for goodness sake.'  It is like disregarding what is best about any of us, just because none of us is perfect. So, while you claim there is no such thing as perfect, it is ironic that you would thus seem so unreasonably perfectionistic.

Edited by aka CAT
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aka CAT

Posted (edited)

Since Frank drew me back into this discussion, I'd like to more directly address Kismet's opening comments.

Religiosity is waning.  No politician is representative of the faithful.  And, believing all of us fallible, I pray wisdom guide all of our decisions.  So, not pray the same for leaders whose decisions can and often do effect many people?

Edited by aka CAT
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Kismit

Posted

1 hour ago, aka CAT said:

Since Frank drew me back into this discussion, I'd like to more directly address Kismet's opening comments.

Religiosity is waning.  No politician is representative of the faithful.  And, believing all of us fallible, I pray wisdom guide all of our decisions.  So, not pray the same for leaders whose decisions can and often do effect many people?

To some Donald Trump is representative to their Faith.

Do you follow Donald Trump on Twitter?

One of his followers, known as, One Nation under God, adresses every one of Donald Trumps tweets with an affirming bible verse. To that tweeter, Donald Trump represents their Faith.

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Manfred von Dreidecker

Posted

11 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

Reading the NT, Jesus comes across as far less than perfect.  He even was known to lose his temper, get depressed, call people names, and so on.

In other words, as human? That only makes him more believable, and more credible. I mean, look at the Buddha. What makes him lovable was his humanity.

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Manfred von Dreidecker

Posted

8 hours ago, Kismit said:

To some Donald Trump is representative to their Faith.

Do you follow Donald Trump on Twitter?

One of his followers, known as, One Nation under God, adresses every one of Donald Trumps tweets with an affirming bible verse. To that tweeter, Donald Trump represents their Faith.

www.charismanews.com/.../60395-why-christians-aren-t-laughing-at-lance-wallnau-sa...
  1.  

7 Oct 2016 - Lance Wallnau believes God is raising up Donald Trump like he did King Cyrus in Isaiah 45. :unsure:

Is Trump “Cyrus” – His Election a “Miracle of God”?

:unsure2: Of course Tr*mp's not Cyrus. Have you seen him twerk? :blush:

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Kismit

Posted

1 hour ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:
  1.  

:unsure2: Of course Tr*mp's not Cyrus. Have you seen him twerk? :blush:

Cyrus?

 

Kidding.... Dear Lourde, thankfully I have not.

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aka CAT

Posted

11 hours ago, Kismit said:

To some Donald Trump is representative to their Faith.

Do you follow Donald Trump on Twitter?

One of his followers, known as, One Nation under God, adresses every one of Donald Trumps tweets with an affirming bible verse. To that tweeter, Donald Trump represents their Faith.

I don't follow anyone on Twitter, but, as an UM member, I know people believe many peculiar things.  The majority of them are harmless. 

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ExpandMyMind

Posted (edited)

On 16/03/2017 at 9:23 PM, Kismit said:

Devils advocate Manfred. You are right. In fact, if we take a look at history, we can map out where strict religious ideals where taught to the pagan and heathen locals over time, by religious extremists who had the right god on their side.

I dislike religion with a Passion.

I think if Jesus was alive today he would hide from some of his followers.

That's the confusing thing in the US though, isn't it? Christianity and right-wing politics are completely conflicting ideals. They're almost polar opposites. The sad thing is that it's largely one, single right-wing belief that has allowed so many to be swept up by the republicans: abortion. Probably the only reason the republicans still hold onto it - since it's obvious by their care for the poor, needy and basically anyone who doesn't live above a certain income bracket, have a certain colour of skin or a straight sexual orientation - is so they can continue to hold onto these Christians. This is probably also why they're so anti LBGT.

The truth is that the morality based ideals of left wing politics have far, far more in common with the message of Christianity.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Kismit

Posted

Maybe that's where the crux of the problem is.

Perhaps it's more that the religious people backing Trump are those who feel rightous enough with in themselves to remove the rights of others.

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aka CAT

Posted (edited)

Voter apathy must be rampant when politicians expect thanks for voting to keep men out of women's lavatories, locker rooms and public showers.  LBGT rights is less an issue in that instance than women's wanting privacy along with a little security.

Edited by aka CAT
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preacherman76

Posted

There is nothing new happening in America when it comes to religion and politics. Heck even 0bama had to pretend to be a Christian.

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ExpandMyMind

Posted

12 hours ago, aka CAT said:

Voter apathy must be rampant when politicians expect thanks for voting to keep men out of women's lavatories, locker rooms and public showers.  LBGT rights is less an issue in that instance than women's wanting privacy along with a little security.

Transgender women are not men, if you can't understand this then you need to do some research or open your mind a little.

How much privacy or security would these transgender women have if they had to use men's toilets? Spoiler: none, and they would be under threat of violence and rape.

You should also do some research into just how dangerous it is to allow transgender women into the women's restrooms. Spoiler: it's not dangerous at all, according to research.

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aka CAT

Posted

2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Transgender women are not men, if you can't understand this then you need to do some research or open your mind a little.

How much privacy or security would these transgender women have if they had to use men's toilets? Spoiler: none, and they would be under threat of violence and rape.

You should also do some research into just how dangerous it is to allow transgender women into the women's restrooms. Spoiler: it's not dangerous at all, according to research.

The vote was expressly to keep MEN out of areas now restricted to women.  Understandably, females do not want male sex offenders cross-dressing as an excuse to harass and/or violate them.  So, if the majority of people do not wish to accommodate every person who wants to take exception with convention, the guy who likes to urinate on potted plants in public buildings had better not get caught.  Otherwise, he'll be charged with damaging property and public indecency among, possibly, other things.  

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preacherman76

Posted

2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Transgender women are not men, if you can't understand this then you need to do some research or open your mind a little.

How much privacy or security would these transgender women have if they had to use men's toilets? Spoiler: none, and they would be under threat of violence and rape.

You should also do some research into just how dangerous it is to allow transgender women into the women's restrooms. Spoiler: it's not dangerous at all, according to research.

Hey EMM, I don't want to get into a argument over this or anything, but certainly you can see a ligit concern here? I mean is it really right to expose say a 12 year old girl to someone with a penis waking around their locker room? I don't think I personally know a single women who would feel comfortable with that, especially not with their young daughters, who have never even seen a penis. I'm sorry that's asking to much of people. Heck I get kinda weirded out with my 11 year old son seeing men come out the shower at the gym. I'd probably, and I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but I'd probably beat the living hell out of a man who'd expose them selves in front of a little girl.

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ExpandMyMind

Posted

18 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Hey EMM, I don't want to get into a argument over this or anything, but certainly you can see a ligit concern here? I mean is it really right to expose say a 12 year old girl to someone with a penis waking around their locker room? I don't think I personally know a single women who would feel comfortable with that, especially not with their young daughters, who have never even seen a penis. I'm sorry that's asking to much of people. Heck I get kinda weirded out with my 11 year old son seeing men come out the shower at the gym. I'd probably, and I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but I'd probably beat the living hell out of a man who'd expose them selves in front of a little girl.

That's a legitimate concern, if that is what was going down. But I'm sure there would be safeguards put in place to prevent that sort of thing. It's hardly going to be a case of being exposed to things they shouldn't see. I'm not even sure if shared changing with pre ops is part of it.

This legislation wasn't just put in place without thought to these types of scenarios. You should read up on it. 

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aka CAT

Posted

3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

That's a legitimate concern[...] But I'm sure there would be safeguards put in place to prevent that sort of thing[...]

The fact that a vote was even thought necessary suggests women cannot afford to take too much for granted.  Therefore, let me be emphatic about my

meaning to write take exception to convention-- If someone wants to take exception to convention by putting the majority of women at risk, too d*** bad!

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Kismit

Posted

How did this blog turn into a discussion about men and toilets?

Or was this an argument designed to justify lessening the rights of some people?

Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want pedophiles hanging around public toilets. Either ladies or mens toilets. Pretty sure no one needed an extra law to keep men out of wimans toilets to protect this right.

Let's focus the argument a little is the problem pedophiles or transgender? Or are people confusing the two?

I have met, known, and worked with several transgender people. And I have even shared uni-sex bathrooms with them. Never considered it an issue. Didn't realize it was a problem. Because it wasn't.

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ExpandMyMind

Posted

18 minutes ago, Kismit said:

How did this blog turn into a discussion about men and toilets?

Or was this an argument designed to justify lessening the rights of some people?

Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want pedophiles hanging around public toilets. Either ladies or mens toilets. Pretty sure no one needed an extra law to keep men out of wimans toilets to protect this right.

Let's focus the argument a little is the problem pedophiles or transgender? Or are people confusing the two?

I have met, known, and worked with several transgender people. And I have even shared uni-sex bathrooms with them. Never considered it an issue. Didn't realize it was a problem. Because it wasn't.

I'm not sure anyone mentioned paedophiles? Was it even being inferred and is that even an issue? I thought Preacher was talking about school changing rooms.

I don't think there are any cases of such anyway. It would seem a strange thing to do considering they would still be using adult changing rooms.

 

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Kismit

Posted

The discussion appeared to digress into keeping men out of woman's changing rooms. I'm trying to see where the connection is.

Perhaps I have jumped to a conclusion about the issue.

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aka CAT

Posted (edited)

53 minutes ago, Kismit said:

How did this blog turn into a discussion about men and toilets?

People here received political calls about the matter on the day of my post about it.  

I like to accommodate all persons as best can I.  Nevertheless, in view of persons' suggesting greater leniency on behalf of those whom like to take exception to ways established by law and for order, there is a limit to civilized persons' tolerance for unruly misfits.

 

Edited by aka CAT

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