To all of you who claim to 'know the real truth':

If there is a NWO that is working to take over, why haven't they done so?

One would think that, if your theories are correct, 9/11/01 would have been perfect to take over and effect all these dire changes you fortell. The President couldn't have declared Martial Law, the troops were being deployed, and the civilian aircraft were grounded.

How did this shadow government of yours miss this golden opportunity?

And, if possible, I would like clear, concise answers, as to your reasoning.

Thank you
JMPD1

My thoughts exactly. I need some answers and reasoning as to how these people jump to this conclusion without proven facts to backup their theories.

Only the really crazy ones really believe in it. To most it's just entertainment. Like a good TV show, it doesn't have to make perfect sense, as long as it tells a good story.

I believe that we have had a problem since around WW1 with industrialists and banks causing depressions to fuel war and profit...an example would be IBM and the holocaust. ITT helped set up communications for the Nazis in WW2 and were responsible later for inciting a coup in Chile because Allende was going to nationalise his countrys resources like much needed copper used in communications for wiring. They sent the CIA in to incite a coup.

We do live in a different world now...since the killing of JFK, there has been more uneeded wars, coups , assassinations and the military/ industrial complex budget has gotten so overwhelmingly huge. Our own President Eisenhower even warned us about it. They sponsored coups during his Presidency too through OPC...United Fruits Frank Wisner was part of OPC...United Fruit sponsored an attack on Guatemala and their democratically elected leader Arbenz. Private militias connected to CIA and United Fruit and Standard Oil were bombing strategic areas. This kind of thing is less in the Governments hands than it is in the hands of private financiers who work through military backchannels.

Of course...in the old days...they could do it behind our backs...but as they send more people into government on their behalf they can slowly manipulate laws against us and increase them to the private entitys favor. These things I talk about can be backed up but too many people let their ideology blind them and they miss the bigger picture. The enemy of the world was within the whole time. Its never just one person....but a community of like minded opportunists who want to maintain the status quo...for themselves.

Conspiracies take on many forms...there are collective conspiracies...like in WW2...not only did industrialists get paid but so did international money lenders who helped Germany re-arm...so did the munitions makers, even the eugenicists got their dream come true....they were all wrong but no one probably knew anything about the others nature of business. Maybe there was some people on the very top that knew aspects of every business but all I know is it wasn't just Hitler. Its never just the guy in the limelight.

Thanks dmgspycat. That is the exact opposite of what was asked.

In fact, you did not even address the question put forth.

But I guess being so wrapped up in your conspiracies, you cleverly read between the lines and deduced that I was asking for a figgin history lesson of allegations.

To me things aren't adding up right but then again who am I anyways, just here to view my opinions on issues posted. There is an agenda to bring on the owo., nwo. or owg. You have to look at many various issues and things that are going on in the world and not to see that something is going on leads me to believe some just choose not to be open minded or walk around with blinds over there eyes and earplugs on all the time. Why haven't they taken over perhaps the timing is not right just yet. Our freedoms are slowly but surley being taken away. Look around you and you'll see more cameras on streets in buildings etc. The cable news channels are not telling the whole truth other than what the gov.' wants us to hear. Is the Gov.' paraniod that someone out to get them. Yes there are some evil people who are acting out violently and killing/hurting many people. But look at the way we are becoming. Are these not signs that our freedoms are slowly being taken away from us. When the gov.' wants us to get national id cards or worse yet chips for id and tracking us to possible control us in the future which I believe may very well be the case then what. There was an intention of a nwo. I see signs all the time of the world changing for the worse and not the better since 9/11. I beleive will will end up a cashless society in the future. I'm not gonna claim to be one who can debate very well and have all my facts straight and in order. But I do speak from the heart and what I feel. Its hard to actual prove something is wrong when so many believe that the gov.' is all wise and does not make to many mistakes or have an agenda in mind. I wish I could be a better debater and have some decent facts to back up my personal feelings more, but I don't. I just see things around me changing daily or rather on a monthly matter more like it. I don't like what I see. Some things take time and I am guessing taking over the world is gonna be one of them if it comes to be, which I believe is only a matter of time.

Thank you for the reply crystalmoon, but my question is why hasn't this shadow group made their move?

I mean, folks have been clamoring about NWO, freemasons, and "black UN Helicopters" for at least 20 years. If these people were really such a threat, which I do not believe, then they are awfully inefficient.

I was painting the picture of what it is that you percieve as a threat...the people and forces I mentioned are the NWO...they always have been...and they are taking over but you cannot steal all of the worlds sovereign governments overnight can you? Of course not...that is why they take small steps...in the end they will have won the game. You see the trick is to have people asking or even begging to rush in the NWO instead of beating people over the head with it...besides...everyone knows its harder to get something accomplished when you have to force people into it. They have to make us want it. They have all the time in the world to bring it about.

I have heard a general talking to a magazine stateing that he believes that if America sees another 9-11 style attack, that we will be under Martial Law. The legislation is already in place.

quick answer without elaborating

somthing always goes wrong, plus we are following Gods plan and time line. when he allows Satan to have his 7 years of fun the NWO will have succeded.

Olkahoma - some bombs uncluding two micro nukes didn't go off and get the desired effect.

WTC attack 1993 - a van was in the designated parking spot, so the truck bomb didn't have the desired damage. Bomb materials were given to agent provacatuer by FBI

9/11 - The plane that was supposedly brought down by passengers (lets roll), which was actually shot down by generals not folllowing orders to stand down, was supposed to hit the capital building. Didn't have the decapitation effect to shut down the country.

And you actually believe all of that scoobysnack?

If you asked me 4 years ago, I wouldn't have. But yes I do. I can source what I wrote, but I didn't just to save time. I have been researching various sources from many different cultures. As far as Satan having his fun, this involves , prophecy from the Bible, Mayans, Hopi indians, near death experiances, people like Edgar Casey and more that all say the same thing to a slightly different tune. $h!t is about to hit the fan in the next 10 years, right on schedule. As crazy as this sounds, thier is more evidence to back this up than you would like to believe. I wish it wasn't true, but you can't just ignore the facts because they seem to far out there to be true. Truth is stranger then fiction.

If you want me to prove the claims of oklahoma, 1993 WTC, and 9/11, I can show you

You kind of lost me with that Satan/God prophecy stuff...I used to be a Catholic and I started buying into the stories about Fatima and other stories but slowly began to realize that religion is used as a pacifier for the people. Before there was the holocaust there were the dark ages and the inquisition. The church heirarchy is just as political as the next guy...dont let their funny dresses fool you...lol

Not to get too far off topic but a lot of so called bible prophecies these days always depict the anti-christ as coming from the middle east. I say wrong. It is us...we are a duplicitous bunch here in the states...filled with self-righteousness and pomp...caring little for how we treat other countries and we also helped install some of the most brutal dictators the South Americans have ever seen. Good on the surface and bad underneath. So good right?...but we cant help introduce the world to cleaner technologies for the good of all life? I guess its more economical to keep destroying the planet eh? God bless our system...the world sees alot of unecessary bloodshed to keep those 7-Elevens on every street corner.

So the answer then, is that just like the \second coming' and revelations, is that "It isn't time yet"?

This is starting to sound like a tomb raider movie plot......

Save time? You won't show us DEFINITIVE EVIDENCE to save time... are you mad? If you have the evidence then show us it, or why are you even here? T hold back what you deem convincing evidence of your theories is what this place is all about... and rarely sees.

If you have it, present it. Please.

Just want to clarify I dont believe in "revelations" but I am familiar with what they say and I just wanted to put the "shoe on the other foot" and ask why cant it be the other way around? Instead of some poor third worlders offering us the anti-christ why not the US or Britain? They are much more pwerful and have alot of hidden deceit over the years...if I did believe in these things I would probably see it that way. My two cents.

JMPD1, these people have no point; if there were any truth to the NWO, we would have seen it by now, also if the goverment had caused 911, why have they got only headaches from it, I wish all i had to do all day,was sit around trying to find someone to blame for the thing's i do not understand!

Its happening around us now...it has been happpening for some time...only you see it as "policy" and "law" and do not connect the dots as to who these laws benefit and why. Your pretty smarmy and most of you who do not believe in the NWO, which has been mentioned many times by GHW BUsh Sr., sure do take liberties and name call those of us that do bother to read. I never go to other forums and tell people they are cracks or nutters and debase them because of their beliefs but if you read most posts here in the conspiracy section you will see how many "self-righteous" individuals assume they know whats going on and procede to use insults...its amazing how hypocritical some people are.

Funny one could say the same to you, when ever you debunk what other people try to say here, why is it you and just a few more know the real truth, maybe you are the one's who are wrong and not us,

Isis...debunking someone using credible details is one thing. What you do is offer your insult and your opinion and then walk away from the debate thinking you just accomplished something. ANd no ...you could not say the same for me.

I offer theories based on evidence. Sometimes historical evidence.

You wont learn these things in some lame college history class, they always leave out the good stuff. Got to read the details...FOIA docs, research papers, news sources...etc.

You mean fake reports from people who want to believe as i have already stated, there are those who feel the need to know more than others it makes them feel important, there fore they make these crazy theorys up to look as if they know more than the rest of us, but no matter how much they want fore it to be true it just is not, and i have not insulted you, i have not called you any names, but your hot remark was very sexes, and not called fore, i am not some dumb female, and if you think i am you are sadly miss taken.

What friggin' NWO!? All I see is US/UK/Australian troops fighting Iraqi nutcases who think it's justified to blow themselves up and a few thousand people with it. Where is this NWO exactly?

I guess that no one can answer one simple question.

Your questions have been answered JMPD...every one of them...what cant you understand?

How have they been answered? By your rambling list of conspiracies dating back 50 years?

If you are correct, and this conspiracy has been afoot since World War 2, just WHEN do they expect to take over? It makes no sense.

-enough of this nonsense. You are unwilling or unable to answer the question in a simple forthright manner. I leave you and your co-conspirators to your fantasies.

You should learn the virtue of patience my freind...Since when have I ever been short with you? You are pretty demeaning. Another short tempered teen? Anyway...its taken me about 10 years to read about these many subjects and connect the dots...Im trying to give you a little perspective if you dont mind, thats why I started at WW2. How can you see the enemy if you dont know what to look for? From what I have read and seen with experience...history is not happenchance...events ARE connected.

9-11 has and still is being used to further encroach on our rights as people and further limit our response to a corrupt government. Rich and influential people do not want a democracy. You wont be able to understand what bthese people want until you take a look at their past.

George Bush has spoken about the NWO,is he a crazy wacko too?
I think some opinions of the NWO may be taken to extremes and I hope what I read about stuff like the Illuminati,Skull and Bones etc is BS.
But if the threat is real it will take years to put into effect without us really knowing,it maybe happening now with your guys Patriot act,our inevitable ID cards,CCTV,Aids?Iraq and the takeover of the middle-east,etc.
Slowly taking our liberties and controlling us through fear,diseases and wars.
The NWO wont be shady government organisation put in power overnight,if its real they are already there.
To rush the takeover of planet Earth takes a while.

People like GHW Bush just believe differently than you and me MKultra. Of course the Skull& Bones stuff has some meaning to it. Trace the names to the activities...bingo. Its no conspiracy for them, to them it is business as usual but the way we see it is the world is being destroyed in the process. We cant keep going this route...but these people will not change. Their idea of "status quo" is a tighter grip around our necks. How many of our tax dollars wasted for their wars? Clean technology has been around for a while why isn't it in use?

//A short tempered teen??//

Thank you for the compliment. <Ya might want to check my profile there sport >

You and several others here constantly harp that you and a select few 'know the real truth'. From what I've seen of your "facts", they are spurious, misleading, and to an extent, libelous.

You keep bringing up the "Downing Street Memo". I googled it, and if it is the correct memo, shows your allegations to be false.
To whit:




You claim that this memo was in place BEFORE the WTC Attack. IIRC, the Towers were attacked once in 1993, and again in 2001.

Other "evidence" that you conspiracy buffs present, is circumstancial at best, and would not hold up in Court.

You claim that the GW Bushs Grandfather was in league with Nazi Germany. Lets say he was, will you hold the grandson responsible for the grandfathers sin? If I delved into YOUR family background and uncovered a nice fat skeleton, Shall I hold you accountable for your ancestors transgressions?

I have a background in Law Enforcement, If I seem "testy", but slipshod investagative work, by detectives with an agenda (as well as a pre-conceived perp) set my teeth on edge. I apologize if my frustration was that apparant.

(BTW, I'm 43)

we dont harp about "knowing" the truth per say but we have accepted it --no one said the memo was in place before 9/11--the issue with the memos is that they were in place "before" we went to iraq! --you talk about circumstantial evidence but refuse to acknowledge the testimony of the best available credentialed eye witnesses and experts--albert turi,louie cacchioli,bill manning,Paul Isaac Jr,morgan reynolds,frmr fbi sa john o'neal,sibel edmonds,fbi sa robert wright,brig general benton k partin,samuel cohen,Dr. Frederick Hansen,Dr. Roger A. Raubach,Dr. Ernest B. Paxson,kevin ryan,USAF Col. George Nelson,Paul Craig Robert
details on these individuals
more details continued

please list the individuals whose testimony you accept as discrediting the persons listed above

I never thought of that before: secretive societies and conspiracy theorists alike like to revel in their access to secret, forbidden knowledge.

If they actually believed these theories I doubt they'd be babbling about them all over the internet.

You do not have to now or believe anything about the Bible or the book or Revelations to have a clue that the NWO and globalists have been working through time. About them totally taking over in an overt manner, that is a question of degrees. The existence of the UN, the rise of the EU, and treaties like NAFTA, GATT, and the G# meetings show the need for increasing cooperation between nations. Remember how the world responded to the death of Papa John Paul II.

The Globalist
http://www.theglobalist.com/
The Humanist
http://www.humanistmovement.org/
http://www.iheu.org/modules/news/
http://www.humanisten.ch/hi/front/index.php?lang=en
The Parliament of World Religions
http://www.cpwr.org/
The worldwide council of churches
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/links/church.html

http://en.wikipedia....der_(conspiracy)
The term New World Order refers to a belief among people that a powerful secret group has created a secret plan, known as the New World Order (NWO), to rule the world via a world government. The belief may stem – at least partly – from the phrase New World Order, which has been used in politics for much of the Twentieth Century. See New World Order (political).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28political%29
The term New World Order has been used several times in recent history, referring to what appeared to be a dramatic change in world political thought and the balance of power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization
Globalization

the truth we have accepted is that yes "they have" taken control and have been in control for many years--in fact the best way to avoid an overthrow is "hide" your rule--this is part of the secret the illuminatti posses--the rest is either an association of or a direct result of that truth--when it comes to war they control both sides and know who will win and use that knowledge to profit and continue a cycle that has no end--do you still believe that oil is derived from fossils? another scam other than faking hosilities around the world would be the manufacted scarcity of oil or the truth about debt and a currency backed by debt--the truth is there are "corporations" that all branch off of "one supreme occult corporation" that do indeed rule the world and maintain power by creating war and controling the globes energy resources and financial institutions

Oklahoma City:

"Doc, what happened in Oklahoma City wasn't caused by ammonium nitrate bomb in the small truck they say was parked by the building." "What are you saying?", I snapped back. "See this rash, it was caused by radiation. We broke three radiation detectors there. See, we were the same team that was sent to Riyad, Saudi Arabia and the bomb only blew the windows into the building. We estimated the explosion was by our calculations to be seven times more ammonium nitrate in that truck bomb. The whole front of the building was sheared off doc in Oklahoma; cleanest controlled detonation our munitions expert forensic team has seen ever. " "What!!", I blurted. "Yeah, we were examining the building site under Wakenhut armed guard, and told not to take any radioactive debris off the site, or they were ordered to shoot on site to kill. All our bags were searched and put through a detector, to make sure we didn't take any off site, or away from the place where they buried and concrete capped all the debris, again under armed Wakenhut guard." "You are telling me that the building was exploded with a nuclear device?", I said. Shaking with a now very pale and distant face, he grunted, "Yeah!". "Oh my God!, and how did this happen?", I inquired.

"There were micronuclear bombs placed on support pillars in the walls of the Federal Building, by special units of the ATF and FBI. They were paged out not to enter the building on the morning of the detonation, and the Federal Judge was warned to cancel court that day. We removed to undetonated softball sized micronuclear bombs, and one C4 pineapple bomb, attached to the pillars of the remaining building."
source: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/septe...4okcbombing.htm

and to listen to an interview with this information:
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/111104deagle1.htm

1993 WTC bombing:

Basically the FBI had an agent provacateur get some Arabs and do a sting operation. Throught the double agent, the terrorist group was given bomb making materials. The double agent thought they were making him the patsy so he started recording his conversations with the FBI handler. Long story short, FBI decided not to intervene and arrest the terrorists, the FBI told the provacateur the let the bombing go forward.

Sunofone explains it well including the NY times article on a past thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=45179

9/11:

Come on, Check the recent threads. One thing that I don't think has been covered that show prior knowledge and nepotism in the Bush family. Jeb Bush declared martial law 4 days before 9/11, but did not announce it untill 9/11. WHO KNEW? Jeb Bush signed Florida TWO YEAR emergency order 4 days BEFORE ATTACK
one source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=25051

more to come on the other stuff...

Maybe a better question would be: what would it take for you to NOT believe in this theory? After all, in science, any theory must be disproveable. I.e., there must be a way to show that the theory is false.
Otherwise, anybody could say "SEcret space aliens make the earth rotate, not conservation of momentum. These aliens cannot be detected." A fine but useless theory and impossible for anyone to disprove. If they say "Show me the aliens", I say "You can't detect them. No one can. But they're there."

So, all you who believe in a shadowy, patient organization that is masterminding all today's current events (or at least the important events) and nothing is what it seems, I ask you: what would it take for someone to be able to convince you that you are NOT correct?

As for me, I do not believe in conspiracy theories. But there is a way to prove me wrong: show me proof that there is a conspiracy. Give me names and facts to show that 9/11 was done by Israel/Bush/etc. Give me verifiable facts that the OK city bombing was done by the FBI/CIA. Do NOT give me links to websites like prisonplanet.com, that does not count as reliable or verifiable. Do not give me a list of circumstantial evidences or a handful of facts that if interpreted in one narrow way, points to the conspiracy. Why? Because I can simply interpret them in another, equally reasonable way, and get no conspiracy at all.

I haven't got anything to add but I plan to read some of the links posted soon. I just have to mention this as it may help me in understanding this. I was reading the posts on this thread when suddenly my browser switched to "not responding" I thought it as my browser shutting down again but instead on my other browser it went to a Catholic forum with a thread about the Pope and Harry Potter. It went to the second page and it was about the Pope's Nazi past. It's probably just a coincidence but I'm fairly open minded about synchronicity. I'm just wondering if anyone has anything interesting that they could add that maybe I'm "ment" to see.

i would love to hear about how you interpret pools of molten steel in the wtc basements of towers 1,2 and 7(i hope you say jet fuel and office furniture as this would proove your bias towards the illogical))--also can you please elaborate on your disdain for alex jones--his investigative journalism is sourced from public record and govt docunments and is ALWAYS 100% verifiable--please give one example of what it is you found on his web page that gives you reason to doubt his credibility--better yet give an example of a fact that has been interpreted as a conspiracy and how that fact can be interpreted in any other way--

Heres another question for you spraky as mentioned by some other sites..."why didnt the engines of the plane that hit the pentagon make any holes in the wall?" . The planes fuselage is weaker than two steel engines so how could they vaporize? The damage was not consistent with a plane crash...even at high speed.

Note that no one has answered my main question: what would it take to convince you that 9/11 was done by terrorists smashing planes into buildings? Is your conviction that this is not the truth a belief that can be disproved? Given that you seem to believe that any story/evidence/testimony that supports the "official" story is propaganda, and the only evidence you rely on is that published web sites with a previous agenda (e.g., US gov't did it, Israel did it, was done for insurance money, etc) to deny the official story, it seems reasonable for me to conclude that there is no way this theory could be disproved to your satisfaction. Therefore, your conviction that the conspiracy theory is true is what I would call a faith, a belief, not a conviction based on well-reasoned logic.

Two other conspiracy theories that are based on a mass of circumstantial evidence are that the Apollo moon landings were all a hoax, and that Jesus did not die on the cross, but survived and moved to Western Europe with Mary Magdalene.
Both of theories involve some bad science, interpreting certain facts all in the same direction, over-interpreting fragments of information so that they all point to the same conclusion, and a complete lack of disproveability. That is how I see the 9/11 conspiracy theories. Like born-again Christianity, this "truth" serves some purpose for the people who believe it, gives them some sense of purpose or a feeling that they know the real "truth", explains various puzzling things to them. I have no problem with that, but don't expect me to believe it. I demand some higher level of evidence and conviction, and won't twist things so that "facts" will fit the view of the world and truth that I already have.

I will answer two queries in this single reply. The one not quoted here is from sunofone, about "pools of molten steel" in the bottoms of wtc 1, 2 and 7.

Please see link http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Commentary-Re...nored_dead.html

Roughly halfway through the page it says there is a 12 foot diameter hole in a wall in the second wing of the Pentagon, caused by an engine. Also see link
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm for a more comprehensive review of claims that no plane actually hit the Pentagon. Also see
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/de...html?page=6&c=y
which has a picture of a hole.

THE MOLTEN STEEL:
See http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/rubblefires.html
and this is from a site that seems to support opposition of the official story.

"Molten pools of steel", hmm.

My office was located on the B6 level of tower 2. It was BELOW the PATH train lines. About a year and a half ago, we got a call from NYPD, stating that they had some personal property belonging to members of our organization, and would we like to claim them.

We were absolutely amazed that they could recover anything at all, but even more so when we received such items as: Drivers licenses, immigration cards, personal photos, wallets, and some of our equipment that hadn't been crushed. Thts right, crushed, not burned, melted, or charred. These items were recovered after the rubble and debris had been removed.

I would think that if there were pools of molten metal, these things would have been utterly destroyed, wouldn't you? But I know that you conspiracists won't believe a survivors word, I mean, I could be part of the conspiracy, right?

Those floors didnt go down all the way to the bedrock where the steel was anchored too. Those things werefound in layers of rubble above the heat. Obviously. So quick to dismiss other evidence are we? Dont you also remember that the explosions were picked up on a Columbia University Seismograph? Yes thast is evidence...and it picked up three things...1. the planes hitting 2. explosions 3. the buildings falling.

Gee...what does no.2 represent? Well...I hate to brake it to you kid but that means demolitions were used. How else do you have explosions in the basement where there wasnt supposed to be any? Your job...whatever it is...does not lend you the authority to dismiss these other details. You saw what you saw and interpret it how you want...but you have not answered thes e other questions. There were news crews talking about explosions being heard in the basement but curiously no reports...hmmm, why not? Is it that you cant except the fact that the official story is hiding a bigger story?

Again, you fail to answer my main question, and instead jump from molten pools of metal to seismograph readings. See the URL I will give here, which shows that your #2 (explosions) is not backed up by seismographic evidence and thus you do not have to "brake" it to anybody that demolitions were used. But that isn't the point for you, is it? You want a bigger story, and will believe anything that anybody writes in support of that desire.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/de...html?page=5&c=y

dmgspycat, you truly are ignorant.

There were also large generators to supply power to the complex in the event of a blackout. They had friggin humongus oil tanks to power up those generators.

There were also, throughout the complex, telecommunications nodes, each with their own seperate generators and fuel sources.

The Port Authority Police, the FBI, DEA, and US Customs also had space in the complex. Each with evidence rooms and armouries, fuel depots for vehicles, and again, their own generators and fuel supplies.

What the hell do you think happens when a 5,000 gallon fuel drum does when it is exposed to intense heat, or live electical wires?

All this shows me is that you and your breed are ignorant, deluded, and possibly unhinged individuals. You continually, and consistantly refuse to accept any explanation for anything, other than your own twisted version of what reality should be.

My suggestion, to you and your fellow "investigators" is to seek professional, psychiatric help, move out of mommies basement, and find gainful employment. Perhaps something that does not involve sharp objects, or complicated moving parts.

Or, conversely, move the hell out of this country, that you so obviously distrust, to a small island somewhere.

-End-

why do you get angry if feel you are right? true patriotism pledges alliegence to the constitution and all the people that make up this country and doesnt mean suck the balls of any elected official or politician! you asked a bunch of questions without actually stating that you believe the fire from the fuel melted that steel C"MON put it writing so you can look like the fool you are --AND YES THERE WAS MOLTEN POOL OF STEEL IN THE BASEMENT --your link that "attempts" to refute it -tries to discredit the eye witness tesimony of one of the treasonist rats from cdi because he is currently covering up evidence--but this reasoning is flawed -- it tries to discredit what he cannot deny,due to it being physically before him,by virtue of his deceptive anaysis--whether the pools existed or not is not in question thermal images and multiple eye witness testimony has proven this--and if you dont like our freedom of expression then YOU can get the hell out this country

Why do I get angry?

Hmm, lets see, If someone says something that you know is false, and you try to explain it to them, and they tell you that your information is irrelevant, that all mainstream media is lying, and that the people you trust are liars all based on biased, false information, do you expect anything less?

Why you folks are so distrustful of everyone, I haven't a clue. But I would love to know what kind of evidence would convince you that you are wrong. From everything I've read from you Sunofone, and Dmgspycat, it seems that nothing will shake your conviction.

I also wonder why, if you are so distrustful and afraid of the US government, why you don't seek shelter elsewhere. I do not deny your right to say or believe what you wish. What I do object to, is the cavalier way you disregard any information, from whatever source, that refutes your belief. In good conscience, I feel that I cannot let your statements stand unopposed. But, I am no longer able to attempt to refute your fear based arguments. You will not allow for any discussion that disagrees with your paranoiac worldview.

It must be terrible for you folks, to be so afraid all the time. Your fear must be overwhelming and paralysing for you to lash out in so vulgar a manner. I truly pity you, and hope that one day, you will seek the help that you so desperately need.

Man, this is a great thread! Conspiracy nutters are being owned left and right, reduced to poorly-worded insults and bombastic tantrums. You should call this thread "the controlled demolition of a 9-11 conspiracy theory."



Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.

I'll take a stab at answering the actual question. I numbered the original ideas for clarity in my response.

1. Knowing the "real truth" is the draw for the theorist. It's why they seek. They think someone else has all the answers. All it is is a matter of doing their research. The solution to the string theory of conspiracy might be as close as the next e-mail.
They think it is literally possible to know everything. However, it has been my humble experience that those seeking the most arcane knowledge seem to often be lacking in more mundane areas of expertise.

2. I would assume that the NWO hasn't taken over because America, as a free market, is still profitable to Them (oh holy Them) if it is still going on. The term taking over could be argued about but I would say it happened in 1776. If the illuminated ones made and founded this country then I think I see the fruits of a conspiracy all around me. Not one that is being made now, but one that actually had a revolution that we can see on the history channel (now with 10% less Tom Cruise). I think if there's a conspiracy going on right now it's not something that any one of us will be able to know about. If we think we know something, especially if it's "common knowledge" we should really question WHY we know it. If it's even true at all. There are powerful factions that would love for Americans to be distrustful of our government. I choose to make it a little more difficult for them by doing a thing called discerning.

3. This is a strategic question that could only be answered by the people who wish to rule us. Which is a weird concept if you think about it. Why would they want to rule us, when they can sell us stuff at a higher margin as free people?
I think we all watched the outcome, not the start, of a conspiracy on 9/11. Not that it will be the last. Conspiracies and secret societies are real, it's just that the real ones aren't as interesting to some as the disinformational ones. Also, the real stories don't come in English all that often. Sorry, I just don't have a concrete strategic outline for the whens and hows of crazy people taking over.

4. The shadow government is real. At least my TV told me it was. I couldn't begin to tell you what goes on in a shadow government meeting, but I bet it's a little like being at a debate club lock-in. This doesn't sound interesting to me even though they have a kick ass name. I'd buy the new "Shadow Government" EP. With its backward messages. Sorry, artist, to digress is my nature.

oc·cult
1. Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena.
2. Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable.
3. Available only to the initiate; secret: occult lore. See Synonyms at mysterious.
4. Hidden from view; concealed.

You might as well be playing with a ouija board or tarot cards. You'll end up with the same amount of "truth". Which is why this subject is even entertained at this site. We are all seeking something hidden from normal view, no?

There is a serious conspiracy going on right here in this very forum!

To begin with, I have noticed a certain "avoidance" to my posts by certain key members. Whenever I've made inquires about specific subjects, I'm either ignored, or certain members of the UMO (unexplained mysteries order) are compelled to reply with misleading or distracting posts to deflect the issue at hand.

I have struggled undauntingly to bring the truth to this forum through insightful and factual posts, yet, my efforts have gone unnoticed due to the enormous amounts of disinformation amassed against me.

After years of research, I have concluded that Saruman is the leader behind the UMO. My irrefutable evidence shows that he is the mastermind behind the very existence of this forum since it's inception.

There is also indisputable evidence that Daz is tied into this as well.

Please, do not take this as just another conspiracy theory. There really are agents of Saruman (known as mods) watching your every post.

Consider yourself warned!

Still no one has answered my question: what would it take for you to NOT believe in the 9/11 conspiracy theory? Is your belief in it falsifiable? Could it be disproved to your satisfaction? If no, then this is just a religous faith of yours, not a well-reasoned opinion, and therefore there is no point in us discussing it.

[quote=Sunofone,Jul 15 2005, 05:25 PM]
[right][/right]
[/quote]
AND YES THERE WAS MOLTEN POOL OF STEEL IN THE BASEMENT --your link that "attempts" to refute it -tries to discredit the eye witness tesimony of one of the treasonist rats from cdi because he is currently covering up evidence--but this reasoning is flawed -- it tries to discredit what he cannot deny,due to it being physically before him,by virtue of his deceptive anaysis--whether the pools existed or not is not in question thermal images and multiple eye witness testimony has proven this--
[right][/right]
[/quote]
Give me a link to reputable web sources that prove there were pools of molten steel. My link gave good doubt that there were such pools, yet you just say he's a treasonous rat. It was this treasonous rat who said he saw the pools, and the link I gave provided us with good reason to doubt his word. Who were the others that reported pools of metal? How do thermal images prove there were pools of molten metal? Give me a link to an interview with someone who saw the pools of molten metal.
And this contruction of yours: "tries to discredit the eye witness tesimony of one of the treasonist rats from cdi because he is currently covering up evidence--but this reasoning is flawed -- it tries to discredit what he cannot deny,due to it being physically before him,by virtue of his deceptive anaysis". What exactly are you saying? Should I or should I not believe this man? You say he's a rat of the CDI, yet I should believe him? Or not believe him? I can't tell from your quote above. Could you spell it out a bit better? Thanks.

If the government came out and said it was all true, they would not believe it.

what it means is that he "cannot" deny the physical evidence before him--he saw pools of molten steel and reported it--the web page you linked to tries to discredit the evidence he witnessed and reported based on the lies he concocted about why they were there--he claims jet fuel and office furniture caused the pools which is an obvious lie but this lie cannot detract from the physical evidence of the molten steel--i dont need to provide a link because the one you provided does not discredit the fact that the pools were there only the testimony of the cdi employee lying about "what caused the pools"

the ultimate proof of the NEW WORLD ORDER is that we live in a constant state of CHAOS

We do not live in a constant state of anything, You guy's do. The rest of us have full use of your own minds.We do not need people like you to tell us anything we already know!I find it funny that you people think. You know more than those who; Thank GOD, lived through the hell and pain of 911,And i have to say this, If you do not like the way the USA is run then, well go live in China, Iraq, Russia, or any other country and then cry about the USA!


You know i am sure this means nothing to you, But the disrespect you have shown those who died in the attacks of 911, and for every man and women who has lost there life, helping to keep people like you and the rest of us safe, is so unbelievable, I do not even know what to say about, I just don't know!

theres no one who wants our men and women back home where they belong more than me--and imo disrespect is blatantly ignoring evidence that proves the culprits are eluding justice and perpetrating atrocities IN THEIR NAME!!

By the way, how about answering my main question: what would it take for you to give up your non-official theories of 9/11? What kind of evidence would convince you?
The point of the link was that this guy was not a reliable witness, he is not trustworthy. That is the whole point of questioning what he claims he saw. I would like links to more distant observers who saw your pools of metal.

All right then, give me links to reliable eye witnesses who say they say pools of molten metal in the basement. If the official reports did mention these pools (I don't know if they did or not), then explain why their explanations are wrong. The burden of proof is on you, since you are spinning what sound like (to most people) wild theories and accusation.

And what happened to the person who asked me about engine holes in the Pentagon? Did they check my links? Do they still believe no plane hit the Pentagon? Where are you now?

As to the general questions here about why people believe in conspiracy theories in the first place, well I have opinions. First, who doesn't want to be in on a big secret, who doesn't like the feeling they know the "real truth" behind something? That's something we can all understand.
Secondly, for those not in any position of power and feeling like great events just happen to us and there's nothing we can do (which describes most of us), a fine conspiracy theory is just the antidote. We feel more in control when we claim that it's all a lie.
Thirdly, political persuasion. God knows the right wing has enough conspiracy theories of their own which exist only to serve their political convications. See Vince Foster, suicide, and Bill Clinton for a taste of those. Why shouldn't the left, the anti-globalists, the anti-Zionists, etc., have their own?
Fourthly, most conspiracy theorists are just lousy logicians. Out of a few scraps of information, they construct an entire system of belief. It's easy to do when that belief is already what you believe, so any flimsy piece of evidence backing that up looks just like God's own truth. The phrase "circumstantial evidence" is key here. All the 9/11 theories are just a mess of circumstantial evidence; curious, interesting, but not nearly enough to convict anybody of anything. But conspiracy buffs see them as solid proof, not the tidbits they are.

I need a new posting signature: The Truth is Out There, and It's Banal. People are greedy, cruel and kind, and they are like that right to your face. There is no secret answer to it all, even if it doesn't always make sense.

Here is The Intelligent Student's Guide to the New World Order
- By Erica Carle

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Intel...tudents_NWO.htm

If you learn about the NWO, you will be able to start seeing it, and then you to, will have the all seeing eye.

No, that is why we have a government infrastructure.

Well, so much for my foray into the conspiracy world. A simple question goes unanswered, and the conspiranoids just kind of drop out of the conversation when they discover that their correspondents aren't as wooly-headed as they are.

Signing off.

-sparky
The Truth is Out There, and It is Banal.

You really don't understand what we are up against, but that is understandable. This is not something that will be discussed in any school, mainstream media outlet, or anything else you would believe to be credible. The only people who dare to cover such topics of treason are independent investigators and journalists. Bill Oreily is not independent. That's the reason you don't know what we are talking about. Alex Jones only talks about things that are documented. If you took a closer look at sites like prisonplanet, you would see that their are links to original articles and documents. Prisonplanet, is just a database where everything is put together.

To answer your question:

I would have to go back to being ignorant, like everyone else. I would have to be ignorant of the Northwoods document. I would have to be ignoraant that the owner of the WTC complex said he decided to demolish WTC 7 on 9/11. I would have to be ignorant of the drills like vigilant gaurdian where NORAD was running at 8:30 am on 9/11 of hijacked planes being flown into the the twin towers and pentagon. I wuld have to be ignorant of the project for a new american century.

Are you ignorant of these things? Maybe that's why you are having trouble believing these things. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

When 9/11 happened it took me over two years of looking at all of the evidence coming out that wasn't matching the official story to finally admit the possibility that it was an inside job. It never made it into any Mainstream US media. For example, less then a month after 9/11 it was found out that some of the 19 hijackers were still alive. It was never talked about in American Media to this day that at least 6 are still alive. The news still shows the innocents mens pictures on the news. If you are wating for your nightly news to cover some of this info, it will never happen, they are not allowed to talk about it.

The government creates reality for us, whether we want to believe it or not.

evidence cannot be produced to change what has occured --to answer this question in short ...evidence would have to be erased from time--but to further explain i will try and relate what would have been more realistic--first off we would have to go back and stop bush from signing executive order w199i halting the investigation into bin laden three months prior to 9/11(this or switch the patsy from ubl to anyone else as this would be a red flag) -next you would have to stop the demolitions from being planted in the wtc "or" tell them they have to do it "legally" as we cannot use ubl any longer--tell ubl to strike "indian point nuclear facility" as reality dictates that any true terrorist would have done just that--next we would need norad to actually defend our airspace and halt the penagon attrocity--next would be halt the invasion of afgh as nobody will believe the story after the oil pipeline goes through --this is just a start but i think you get the idea --whats banal is de-programing the sheepish ideology of the mentally deficient goyim clinging to their herd mentality and the complete ignorance of the wolves standing beside them draped in a sheeps hide--

*******************
"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
-Hermann Goering-
link

JMPD1 - 'conspiracy' is a bad word. I use instead 'cheating'. Do men cheat? Do rich men hang together and cheat? Do government's cheat? Does mankind cheat in general? Do apes cheat? Governments are always rife with cheating. Powerful groups are always looking to agment their power. Taking dark short-cuts is the standard that power groups have always taken.

Conspiracies are as old as ancient Babylon and Rome and history is filled with them almost to the brim. Modern communications makes operating a cheatful-power-grab-plan far more easier than the conspiracies of yesteryear when cabals had to write secret messages on a shaved head and wait for the hair to grow to cover it over. And you are most likely under a cheatful-power-grab-plan when all the media and information sources attempt to make you feel stupid for just asking. But all nations have laws against such conspiracies - apparently because they have happened in the past.

Now to the world media: what is the popular sayings of today? anything being sold about World Government? World Markets? World authorities? World Courts? Is there at least 50% of the world media selling the opposite ideas - such as nationalism? The simple fact is only foolish cheatful-power-grab-attempts (like Hitler's) try to built their NWO in a decade or lifetime. True ascendant adepts at grabbing power always remember the Roman maxim that 'nothing good comes from haste'. First you SHOULD build a new history and world human view point. You should restructure civilization so that when a baby is born and learns his language (by which he will later use to think) that everything that kid comes in contact with appears to NATURALLY support the concepts that the cabal wants. Likewise true ascendant adepts would want to insure that all sides of any arguments are being controlled and guided from with in.Thus a wise king does not fight rebels - rather he himself creates (by secret means) his own rebel enemies and rebel groups. Thus if any thrall inside his realm suddenly gets the notion to rebel, he is likely to fall in with one of the king's own created rebel bands. And in this way the king can always keep his eye on that rebel and even guide him to do acts that actually help the king himself.

The Persian kings did some of this when they would encourage nations inside their empires to fight against one another. The idea being that if the two semi-rebel nations were busy fighting one another, they could not find time to fight their Persian overlord. Hitler did this on a small scale, when he would encourage those nazi bosses below him to fight with one another for Hitler's approval.

The thing about conspiracies is that its pointless to fight them. If you destroy one MAFIA, another will just arise in mere months to replace the other. Nature abhors a vacuum, and nature likewise abhors a governmental-power vacuum. Since real governments are nearly always filled with intrigue and cabals – thus nature abhors a lack of conspiracy.

The USA began with a conspiracy against King George of England. In fact that is how most nations begin.

Conspiracies are natural and in the long run healthy to civilization. The problem is, civilizations are not always healthful for you.

Bingo.

The evidence is practically anywhere you look. If you're doubting that NWO conspiracies exist in the U.S. governing bodies, then you're a successful example of their programming.

How can you trust information written for news channels by government officials more than firsthand accounts and eyewitness testimony? What do people have to gain by telling the truth in comparison to what the government has to lose by it? It's no wonder Karl Rove reads Machiavelli once a year.

So everyone who does not follow your theory is brainwashed! thats almost laughable!

No. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if someone is completely against the idea of a New World Order being factual, then it's due to either a lifetime of disinformation, being told only what "they" want you to hear. Or, that you've grown to be a person who doesn't question anything. If a scientist or a "high-ranking government official" says something, does that make it true?

And it's not MY theory. The NWO facts have been around for years.

Blindly denouncing the evidence as absolutely false and without credit is what truly is laughable. Seriously man. Turn off your television and unplug.

So everyone who does not follow your theory is brainwashed then. That is what it looks like you're saying to me.

Perhaps its not us who are brainwashed!?

Not brainwashed.

But definitely not encouraged to live an inquisitive life.

It's like a child that believes in Santa Claus. They do so because they're told by their parents about Santa, and how he'll come bring presents on Jesusmas. When you open your eyes (a few years down the road) and see that most people don't believe in Santa due to the tremendous evidence that he doesn't exist, you tend not to believe either.

How many adults believed in Santa as children? Probably everybody who was told the story. How many people believed that Iraq had WMDs? I certainly didn't.
I don't listen to elite-controlled news television. I read news media where sources can be quoted, where reports are written by dedicated journalists, not complacent puppets who report what they're told.

This is brainwashing. Just like the information in textbooks that today's children are being forced to read (and every few years, we need new textbooks with new information). If you're told what to believe for so long, it becomes natural to immediately dismiss that which negates the truths you've swallowed so easily.

and a mere 19 year old holds the answer to save us?!

uh oh panther, now you've done it. The under 20 crowd will soon attack in force.

I know I have my crash helmet at the ready!

I would like to say this to all those under 20.
It's alright...it's perfectly normal.
I thought I knew everything when I was your age too.

the correct classification for the hyper skeptic is "programed" --its so funny the way they will try to denounce any information that comes from the "evil" internet yet turn around and completely submit to the lies coming from their television sets and newspapers--there are indeed two seperate realities existing side by side --only one is carefully fabricated using fear induced trauma to seduce the collective conscience into a day dream where the horrors of reality(the other side) are only a conspiracy and the "false" necessity of war is used to maintain a social structure of haves and have nots--how foolish will we look to our distant relatives who will have conquered the tyrannical rule of the necromonger warpigs?theyll wonder how the entire bounty and abundance of the earth was in control of a single percentile of the globe for so long--they'll ask --did they have common sense at all? well do ya punk?

Denounce information from the evil internet? That is where I get all my information. All my news, all my litterature, everything. Other than three hours a week, I don't even watch television.
Yes I am a hyper skeptic, but I am far from programmed. I am a skeptic because I have seen nothing that convinces me otherwise. I use my mind to sift through all the evidence available and then come to the best possible conclusion. I don't sit on the conclusions and assumptions of others.
Now, I am not even going to address the rest of that because it is not worth the effort to type it out. I have argued with people who have over-active imaginations and relatively inactive intelects enough for one lifetime.

i think you are incapable of questioning the mainstream version of reality--you accept exactly what you are told by the "establishment" whole heartedly--the only sifting you do is to see if it fits into your cozy paradigm and everything else is discarded without scrutiny-- ive never heard you comment on the 93 wtc attacks by the fbi--or the northwood documents--do you think that these two events were isolated occurences? did you know that pearl harbor was known about in advance and that skeleton crews were moved into place and sacrificed for the wave of indignation it would create?

Are you calling me stupid?

For your information, I take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt. Especially what I am told by the government. I am inherently distrustful of authority. When I investigate something, I do it thoroughly. WHat I have found about 9/11 is that a handful of evil men brought down the towers and killed thousands, not some power mongering world government wannabes.

No need to. Overdone and tired, just like this 9/11 argument.

Yes, I did. And you know why they allowed it to happen? So that we could enter the war and keep Japan and Germany from taking over the world. If the US had waited longer to enter WWII, then it would have been too late.

Ok so Roosevelt was part NWO too!?

Of course! According to the conspironauts, EVERYONE but themselves is part of the NWO.

Me, I'm a Major in the Black Helo Squadron.

Yeah ... that's exactly what they want us to think! But we're on to them!

My thread was closed.

You conspiracy theorists were right, there is an NWO and the mods are trying to cover me up.

Someone asked ealier in the thread what evidence would it take to make a conspiracy theorist not believe there was a conspiracy...

Thought I would take a quote from the X files that sums it up nicely (here talking about UFO's but you could just substitute UFO's with 9/11 conspiracies)

Deep Throat: "Mister Mulder, why are those like yourself, who believe in the existence of extraterrestrial life on Earth, not entirely persuaded by all the evidence to the contrary?"
Mulder: "Because, all the evidence to the contrary is not entirely dissuasive."

who the cap fit, let them where it

ok so i guess the thought of countering the offensive "and" entering the war would not have been rational

Alright, first off, I do not appreciate it when people sling unsubstantiated insults at me.
And second, it is well documented that the attack was known and allowed to happen. However, even if they did wish to counter the attack, it was also just as well documented that they did not know where in the hell the japanese fleet was.

I think we are an intrenched beuracracy made up of a corporate aristocracy and it followed Frank Herbert's political rules in his books 'Heretics of Dune' and 'Chapterhouse Dune' which is too long and complicated to write out here only having one good hand. It is not that power corrupts, it attracts the coruptable. It is magnetic to pathalogical personalities with their own self interests and it has been that way since the beginning of the corporate revolution in the 1920s. Sure they let things happen it is going to make these pigs money and further their self interests but I do not see any full scale NWO, just a bunch of greedy pigs out to make money.
lapiche

And I am only a dumb drunken Nanticoke NdN who lives in the woods whatta I know................

source http://www.tedgunderson.com/Investigations...20Terrorism.htm

The Phoney War on Terrorism

By Ted Gunderson (Senior Special Agent-in-ChargeLos Angeles, California* retired)



September 1, 2002


Attorneys who work for the U.S. Department of Justice wrote proposed anti-terrorism legislation during the George Bush. Sr. administration in the mid 1980s. One of the authors, a female attorney, publicly stated that people would have to be killed before Congress would pass it.

On February 26, 1993, a car bomb destroyed portions of the World Trade Center in N.Y.C., the F.B.I. not only knew in advance of the bombing, they furnished the ingredients for the bomb (New York Times, October 28, 1993). Not enough deaths resulted, however, to arouse the ire of Congress and pass the anti-terrorism legislation.

On April 19, 1995, the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma was bombed by Timothy McVeigh, who reportedly used a fertilizer car bomb; however, an inside investigator told me that besides McVeigh, there were at least eleven others involved with the bombing, including Middle Easterners. This bombing killed 168 people, possibly 169. One year later, anti-terrorism legislation was passed that took away many of our Constitutional rights and civil liberties, such as indiscriminate wire taps, and in some instances an individual does not face his accuser in court.

On September 11, 2001, two planes flew into the World Trade Center towers in New York City. I have witnesses who saw and heard systematic, simultaneous explosions on the top floors of the World Trade Center towers before they collapsed. The country was in an uproar. Citizens were demanding protection. As a result more stringent anti-terrorism measures would be passed. The president established a new, gigantic U.S. Government agency, Homeland Security, that would oversee programs such as having one in every twenty-four Americans act as a “snitch” (shades of Nazi Germany in 1933), and allow U.S. military personnel to enforce laws against the civilian population, in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.

The anti-terrorism legislation is written under the guise of protecting us, however the real purpose of this legislation is to strip us of our rights.

On May 1, 1776 (a Communist holiday), after having been commissioned to devise a plan to control the wealth, natural resources, and manpower of the entire world, Adam Weishaupt, a Jesuit who had defected from Christianity, announced on behalf of the Illuminati the twenty-five goals for achieving this plan. The goals included the corruption of youth through sex and drugs, as well as control of the press (See the U.S. Congressional Record February 9, 1917, page 2947, where Congressman Calloway announced that the J.P. Morgan interests bought 25 of America’s leading newspapers, and inserted their own editors, in order to control the media).

Another “telling” goal – one applicable to our recent terrorist attacks - as Adam Wieshaupt stated, is to create a preconceived “reign of terror, and then make ourselves appear as the saviors of the oppressed, and champions of the workers.” He then added, “And we are interested in just the opposite.”

FYI - 85% of these goals have been accomplished.

A U.S. Army Special Forces officer recently told me that the U.S. Government is operating a “huge” terrorist training camp in Greece. A reliable source has advised that Osama Bin Laden met with CIA representatives from July 4 through July 14, 2001, in the city of Dubai (member of the United Arab group). The CIA representatives returned to the United States on July 15, 2001.

The common denominator in all of the above is the Middle East connection. Did our intelligence agencies know in advance of these attacks? I think so.

Should our intelligence agencies have known in advance of these attacks, even if they were not implicated? Yes.

Did our intelligence agencies directly or indirectly participate in these terrorist attacks? I suspect so.

Did these terrorist attacks occur in order to take away many of our civil liberties and Constitutional rights, in an effort to more effectively control the population, looking toward the Illuminati takeover of our country and the world? I believe so. But, don’t take my word for this. Research it for yourself.

The people who want to take away are rights is CitiBank Corp. a C.I.A. owned and run company. That Illuminati crap is a distraction to keep people from seeing the truth. Citi bank's board of directors is made up of all former C.I.A. directors With George Bush senior at the top. These "Puzzle Palace Spooks" as they called them in the Special Forces run everything from the American cocaine cartel to UnderArmor. They are the real NWO behind all this garbage. Like I said money hungry, power hungry pigs...........Did our intelligents agency know this was coming? Yes Do they want you to beleive in this almighty NWO to distract you from themselves? Yes. Did the Bin Laden loan Citibank some serious cash? Yes . The C.I.A. is your real ILLUMINATI just look at your last statment.........

LAPICHE

There isnt any, it is just talk, thats why.

Ah, thank you darkmoonlady, for answering my question. If I can deconstruct Mulder's double negative, the answer seems to be something like: you believe in conspiracy theories because they have not been disproven. But then again, that begs my original question: what evidence would you believe to be dissuasive?

Frankly, I think Deep Throat asked the wrong question. He should have asked "What good evidence do you have for believing in UFOs, besides bits of circumstantial evidence here and there? Life is full of unexplained bits and pieces; to string them all together and make a UFO theory out of them is just plain silly."

By the way, I have found no evidence to dissuade me from thinking there is a small teacup in orbit around Mars. Do you think it reasonable for me to believe such a thing, just because no one has been able to prove me wrong?

Do you even understand the question? I didn't ask you to change what has occured. I asked you what evidence available now would convince you that 9/11 is not a CIA/Mossad/etc conspiracy, but happened as the press and gov't report it? I am curious to know if there is ANYTHING that could convince you that there was no conspiracy, or if this is just a matter of faith that is unaffected by facts common to us all. If it is a matter of faith on your part, then you should say so, and stop acting like there are facts to support your theory. After all, Christians (mostly) don't go claiming there is proof of God and Jesus; they say that this is what they believe, not that it's some kind of scientific fact. You should have the same courage as they and admit that this is simply what you believe, an article of faith, and leave it at that.

Sprakey, there is no conspiracy about people seeing UFO's...there have been documented occurences presented on the news channels from time to time about their existence. I think the real problem comes when you ask people where they came from? Aliens? ROFL! I say either military top secret or even a private enterprise could be behind it.

Look naysayers...politics is a very dirty business...powerful people kill to keep their power...Our own President Kennedy was gunned down in front of us...the Warren Commission was a fraud...well gee sprakey why would I say that? Because among other reasons the autopsy has been proven to be a fraud. The Navy lied! So now they are complicit in covering up the murder and forging an autopsy...they then pushed that phoney story about being shot from behind and then published a fake picture of a small bullet hole in the back of the head when it was quite clear that his head was blown half off. Doctors at Parkland have admitted Kennedy was DOA.

Certain things shouldn't be written off as mere conspiracy theories...most of the time it is people who don't know what they are talking about. Most news services never address the real issues. When a breakthrough in the Kennedy case happens are we ever told? No, but there are universities that keep information like that and authors use that information...you can find this info but you do have to put together the pieces. One way to keep informed is remembering names. Usually when a same group is involved in horrible events, the same names keep coming up...example:Kennedy Assassination, Bay of Pigs, Watergate,Iran Contra , Kerry Committee...etc. Same groups of people, those calling the shots and those carrying out orders.





PS- Hey Sunofone...I wouldn't answer sprakys hypothetical question, its premise is silly. Obviously Spraky, Sunofone has found evidence more compelling to convince him that the official story is a fabrication...I agree. Problem is you probably believe this Administration is run by saints? Believe me Spraky...after finding out about American involvement with the Nazi war machine I became aware that anything is possible in politics.

PSS- Right on Piney!!!

Hey I was an 11 FOX from the 'Drug Wars' to the first 'Gulf War'. I have somewhat of a clue............

wanisha dmgspycat

lapiche

Many people think UFOs are alien-operated craft, yet you say ROFL. Why? Their theories are no different from yours about Kennedy-9/11-etc. They have just as much evidence to back them up as you do for your pet conspiracies.

Yes, politics can be a dirty business. But can you name me cases where a politician has murdered to keep his/her power in the US, where he/she has been convicted in a court of law? Can you prove that it as common as you imply? and these "Same groups of people, those calling the shots"? Who are they? Name some names and give me evidence that they are guilty of the crimes you accuse them of. I think you make the mistake that because politics can be a dirty business, then therefore anything goes and anything is believeable, including 9/11. Just because politics can be dirty, doesn't mean that it is often as dirty as one can imagine. And just because anything is possible in politics at some time or another, doesn't mean it is probable. Just because something is possible doesn't make it true, or even likely.

And yes, obviously sunofone has found evidence that is compelling to him. I just find his standards for evidence fall far short of mine and most people's. And the reason for that is that he only pays attention to evidence that fits his pre-conceived notions about what the truth is. Anything that disagrees with what he already thinks is written off as propaganda, lies or "Big Media". Much like born-again Christians who think Evolution is a lie, he gloms onto whatever scraps of incomplete evidence he can find that support his belief, and ignores those that contradict it as lies.
And for the record, I do not like the current Administration, I voted against it twice and look forward to the day when there is no Bush in the White House. But just because I don't like it doesn't mean they're all liars and murderers. I don't have such a high opinion of myself that I think everybody is wrong except for me and those who agree with me. I don't think "Either you are for me or against me", an opinion you seem to hold and which you share with George W.

Please explain this comment "American involvement with the Nazi War Machine"? Is this yet another conspiracy theory? You toss out this phrase like it's common knowledge. But you should realize that it's not common knowledge, just maybe common inside your own little circle of conspiranoids.

Exactly Spraky...it is not common knowledge but should be...I am just pointing the way, you have to do the research yourself...I have listed plenty of sites and given names of books that support what I am saying. Try typing in IG FArben and Union Banking Corporation. Research what people like Allen Dulles, Averell Harriman and rOBERT lOVETT were up to. Warburg Dillon Read, IBM, ITT, GE, GM, Bank of England, Rockefeller Standard Oil...all these and more were affiliated with Nazis before during and after the war. Look them up and see for yourself how close these people have been with the security/military/industrials sectors of our nation. They invented the CIA after they disbanded OSS.

This stuff is researchable at the National Archives where it has been hidden away for years with no news agency willing to touch it.

BTW, our present ambassador to the court of St James, Will Farrish, his father had his Nazi holdings taken after WW2 under the Trading with the Enemy Act. Bush and Farrish families go way back when their grandfathers were making money help Germany re-arm!!!

I have no doubt that some American industries profited by selling stuff to Nazi Germany before war was declared. I am also not surprised that the Bush family is connected with it. I think many of the Very Rich in America get rich by sleaziness. Also, much of the Japanese war machine was built with scrap metal from the US. What of that? If your point is that the US gov't should keep a closer eye on who is selling what to whom, I would agree. If your point is something else, let's hear it. Your off-the-cuff comment about this story made it sound like the US, as a whole, aided Germany in WWII. Instead, I just read of some American companies making some money by selling to a brutal regime. That is old news and means nothing more than that some of the rich _can_ be sleazy. What of it?

So how is any of this connected with 9/11 and conspiracy theories? If your point is that Bush's ancestors were sleazy, and the current ambassador to the UK also has sleazy ancestors (and has money from sleazy sources), then I agree. What of it? How many generations of their descendents should be tarred with the same brush? Joe Kennedy made his money by stockpiling booze in Canada and doing a rapid importation of it into the US after prohibition ended. Did that disqualify JFK from anything?

I would like to elaborate on the topic of Anti-Christ and if he will come from the middle east. Im sure this thought process is because we, as Americans, depict everyone from the Middle East to be some extreme terrorist. NOT TRUE!

Lets consider the term "Antichrist" This is a Biblical term found in the new testament (which was written in Greek) The term "Anti" in Greek means "In the place of" or "Instead Of". All of you that think the antichrist will be some horrible, evil man/woman are WAY off base. In revelations the antichrist will come claiming to be Christ, and 2/3rds of the worlds population will follow him. He is also described as a person who will preach, love, peace and prosperity, and will perform great miracles. Now heres the chilling part.......Did you all know that the Pope is referred to as "The Vicar of Christ"? The word Vicar also means "In the place of"

Furthermore in regards to the NWO...If you look at the Pyramid that is on the back of a $1.00 bill, you'll notice a latin phrase enscribed on the bottom of it. The phrase is "Novus Ordo Seclorum" This phrase translated is, you guessed it.
"New World Order". This phrase is also enscribed on the walls of the Vatican.

I know for a FACT that there were not pools of molten steel in the basement. I am a firefighter for the federal goverment. I work on a R.I.T (Rapid Intervention Team) We were inside both buildings performing S&R. The other reason I know this is because we attempted to shore up the foundation levels because of the tremendous amount of pressure placed on it by the Hudson. Had there been Molten Steel in the basement, One, we wouldve seen it, two, the foundation footings would have collapsed, allowing the Hudson to flood all of Manhattan.

Conspiracy? Please!! You need to get a job and quit playing video games in your mothers basement. Or better yet, how bout you stop being part of the problem in this country, and start being part of the solution.

A more accurate translation of "anti" would be opposite of or against. Yes, it *can* mean "in place of", but "against" is by far the more common meaning for "anti" in Koine Greek. "Vicar" of Christ means "Christ's representative on Earth". I would beware of reading too much into a single word, especially from the New Testament. The Greek used in 1st century Palestine was like the English spoken today between, say, a Spaniard and a Russian. A rudimentary lingua franca used to get some kind of communication done. Koine speakers did not use the language to make subtle points.

And Novus Ordo Seclorum translated does not mean New World Order. It means "A new order of the ages" (see http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/seclorum.html and http://en.wikipedia....s_Ordo_Seclorum) I can see both the US thinking it had begun a new order in 1776 and the Vatican likewise. I don't think it means much else.

At any rate, I'm not sure what this has to do with 9/11. Were you really a firefighter in NYC? Thanks for "molten pools" information in your following post. That seems like one of the sillier claims, but yet it just won't die.

Well Warrior I dont know what to say...how about you wait until all evidence is in before you judge me as being part of a "problem". I am an American too and war has touched my family as well...I think I deserve a say. How about you pick up a book or two to inform yourself of events you are not told about on t.v. Oh yeah...and there were pools of molten steel dude...it was in the news, and has been posted here on a number of occasions.

JMPD1, so you are saying that the explosions that were heard in the basement occured because of generators and fuel tanks? I didnt know which post of mine you were refering to. Enlighten me.

History is not happenchance people. They are connected events that concern business, military/intelligence and political circles. Once you have read enough about a single event you begin to see the same names and motives behind other similar events. It works for me anyway.

Bottom line is we are not wrong about GW Bush being a bad guy and the people that put him in power. Just open your eyes to the real agenda...is it any different from Nixon? We were attacked in the 1990s too but we had jobs and an economy. We also fought a war in the 90s but we did it with the UN. Times were good. Business was up especially for small businesses. Now look what GW BUsh has done.

I believe these people to be desperate enough to make a war with Iraq because there never were any terrorists...it was a ruse to support a war over oil territory to help bail out his buddy Ken Lay at ENRON...Unocal.

really well according to Peter Tully and Mark Loizeaux there was undoubtedly pools of molten steel in the basement levels --just in case you dont know who these people are here is an article that details the evidence--these pools werent uncovered until 4 and 5 wks later and they were still red hot --did you expect to just seem them after the collapse?--so who is lying "warrior"? why would you so vehemently deny a common fact?
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In the basements of the collapsed towers, where the 47 central support columns connected with the bedrock, hot spots of "literally molten steel" were discovered more than a month after the collapse. Such persistent and intense residual heat, 70 feet below the surface, could explain how these crucial structural supports failed.

Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, New York, told AFP that he saw pools of "literally molten steel" at the World Trade Center. Tully was contracted on September 11 to remove the debris from the site.

Tully called Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland, for consultation about removing the debris. CDI calls itself "the innovator and global leader in the controlled demolition and implosion of structures."

Loizeaux, who cleaned up the bombed Federal Building in Oklahoma City, arrived on the WTC site two days later and wrote the clean-up plan for the entire operation.

AFP asked Loizeaux about the report of molten steel on the site. "Yes," he said, "hot spots of molten steel in the basements." These incredibly hot areas were found "at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven [basement] levels," Loizeaux said. The molten steel was found "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed," Loizeaux said. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon.

Construction steel has an extremely high melting point of about 2,800° Fahrenheit (1535° Celsius). Asked what could have caused such extreme heat, Tully said, "Think of the jet fuel."
link
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wow if that isnt some jedi mind trick s**t there i dont know what is--he didnt say it was jet fuel but to think of it!!--HA-LOL --"think of jet fuel" muhuhuhuhahahahaha

Thank you sunofone for posting that peice.

Why should I? You people have all the friggin answers:

Ignore witnesses that contradict your fantasies
Ignore mainstream media that refute your claims
Ignore official government statements that deny your accusations

Listen to fringe elements that support your hatred
Listen to your biased, prejudicial opinions.
Listen to your fellow conspiricists that feed your delusions.
Listen to the rhetoric of our enemies who couldn't possibly be lying.
Listen to the voices in your head that whisper in the dark.

You and your fellows have made up your minds that you are right, and any who disagree are tools of the "Overlords", you reject any other answer than the ones you have already decided were correct.

This is the last time I'll post in this section, nor read any of the topics, so flame away.

I truly pity you, for your world is dark and terrible, the shadows of your own fear cloud your sight to the real enemies of Mankind. And in your terror, you support, and encourage those who would bring ALL men to their level.

I hope, that one day, you will have something brighter to search for, rather than focusing on the negative.

Peace and goodwill to you all.

You are deffinetly right about focusing on the negitive. Sometimes I wish I never learned about the new world order. I try to get myself to research somthing else more pleasant, but the evidence is so overwhelming about the new world order, I can't just go back to being stupid like the majority of the masses (cannon fodder). Sorry to see you go. Ignorance is bliss.

Industrialists and banks are the instruments of 'profit'. You seem to so easily forget that the wars are started not by imperialist bankers , but rather by Imperialist Dictators who would love nothing better than to destroy the Industrialists and Banks.
Do you make this stuff up or are you really as mentally inept as your posts continually portray you to be?

You in ecstacy at the moment?

Hi Sparky,
You ask earlier that you were curious to know if there is ANYTHING that could convince 9/11 conspiracy believers that there was no conspiracy,

Well yes there is evidence that would help change my mind... The forensic evidence of the twin tower buildings that could be examined & prove how the towers collapsed (if the steel melted or if there were traces of explosives etc)...

Hmmm To bad that all the evidence at the crime scene was quickly disposed of by none other than the infamous american government...
before giving any one the chance to say hang on a sec lets investigate the crime scene..
I think everyone was in such a state of shock no body noticed!! All to Convenient don't you think??

It's strange isn't it if a car smashed into my house & my house collapsed, I would have more expert forensic analysis of the scene than the ground zero site received
Hmm I wonder why that is??

That is tottally wrong! I have been places where cars have actually driven into buildings and I have had friends in Police Department and still do. You watch too much TV! they dont call CSI out for every scene this happens only in specail cases. A car driving into a building hardly qualifies for a CSI investigation or even forensics! We all saw planes crash into WTC why would they need to analyze it? Yes I know the bizzare NWO theory! There was no question as to what happened therfore there was no cause for an investigation of cause we saw it! Quit relying on TV to tell you what the real world is about. Police do NOT bring out foremsic teams every time some jaywalks!

"A car driving into a building hardly qualifies for a CSI investigation or even forensics! "


I don't know about your country "It seems to be all talk & no action when it comes to investigations" (WMD need I remind you lol)

But where I live I can a sure you if a car smashed into my house then the entire house collapsed on its self (2 story brick house) There would be a investigation on how a car could make a two story house collapes into a pile of rubble..

I know this because my house was broken into & just my wallet was stolen (I was in the house at the time) the police still carried out a complete investigation even dusting the windows & doors to get finger prints I can tell you now I was pretty impress that my incident was taken seriously even if it was minor..

So this is why I don't understand how can one of the biggest crime scenes in history be disposed of so quickly?? Without even a thought of any detailed forensic investigations been carried out even if it was for the sole purposewas trying to gain & document information on saddest event in the usa's history
If the ground zero doesnt merit enough reason to have a proper investigation I dont know what does??

How can you argue with this??

There was no question as to what happened therfore there was no cause for an investigation of cause we saw it! Quit relying on TV to tell you what the real world is about.


So what you are saying you are a eyewitess to 9/11???
Or did you just see some grainy, blury video footage captured on a home camera that was aired on cnn??
Hmm so who is relying on TV to tell you whats going on in the real world??

You know why Mamacita...because the men leading us into war with a contrived boogeyman have made evidence to cater to their agenda. If I want a war then I need evidence to seem justified to the world right? So we have 9-11. It wont be too hard too find groups that hate America to blame 9-11 on...because we have been exploiting 3rd world nations for almost 200 years now. They will be the perfect scapegoat.

These bad men were behind corrupt Veitnam, Bay of Pigs, Operation Phoenix Assassination Programs, S American right -wing death squads, attrocities like Allendes assassination...the recent coup attempt in Venezuela against Chavez.Middle-Class Americans do not seem to realise what is being done to the world in their name.

So sad isn't it... How us government justifies its war on terror, as defenders of the people Bullshiiiitttt!!
how about the atrocities being committed all over the world I don't see them kicking up a fuss about that??
Its all a veil of lies to get to the oil of the weakest countries of the world! all thats needed is a excuse..

I can't believe anybody actually believes the us government would go to war with a country if they thought had WMD, as if they would risk a atomic bomb attack...

While Iraq is havin the shiiit blown out ..
north korea prances around in the street showing off their nuclear missiles & all the us government does is have polite little "please stop producing WMD" chats with them Ohh the hypocrisy

So Bush isn't uniquely evil, by this version of events, he's just the latest in a long line of evil? Or is the President not really important ... it's the power that's really pulling strings behind the scenes, that's where the true evil lies, is that right?

Yeah thats true but dont think his father Bush Sr doesnt count in whats going on. After all heres a man who was not only head of CIA but VP for 8 years and a Pres for 4 been in business with Ben Laden family for about 20 years prior to 9-11. If Osama was a real bad guy Bush himself could have caught him based on his contacts and prestige alone behind the scenes. That wiley cave-dweller is too good for our billion dollar satellite tracking system? So then why the hell are we still paying more m oney for it then? Ha Ha Ha
Patriot Act didnt stop the London Bombs but yet they need tougher Patriot Laws they say...ha ha ha. People...the writing is on the wall.

If not a car, but a large truck with its fuel tanks top full, smashed into my house, setting it on fire, then it collapsed, the police would NOT go searching for evidence of bombs in my basement; they would NOT go searching for some cause other than the truck smashing into my house, they would NOT go fingerprinting the debris, looking for strange prints.
But that is what you are asking: you think the investigators should have looked for some other cause, when the whole world saw the planes smash into the buildings, saw the enormous amounts of smoke from the fires, etc.

Let me ask you this: when the police investigated the break-in at your house, did they search through your basement, search the attic, empty out your closets, etc, looking for clues that would tell them that this is NOT just a break-in, that maybe you stole your own wallet, that maybe your neighbors are all out to get you and they stole your wallet, that maybe the mayor is some kind of wallet thief, did they forbid you to touch anything in your house until they could examine all possible theories as to what happened?
If not, why not? Probably because there was absolutely no good reason at all to assume that the crime was something more than what it appeared to be. Well, same with 9/11. What possible reason would anyone have in the months following 9/11 that this was something other than what we all saw on TV? And as far the speed of the cleanup: should the city of NY and the buiding owner just sit there and lose money while investigators carefully sift through everything, searching for some clues that would tell them that the buildings were not destroyed by large, fuel-laden planes smashing into them at high speed? If your house burned down, would you have the investigators dig around for months, investigating every single alternative opinion out on the Web (opinions by people who know nothing of house construction, properties of fire, etc) while you lived in the street or in a hotel somewhere?

This by no means the entire answer but it is food for thought.
I got this list of a bilder berger meeting in june of 1999 of this site
http://www.schnews.org.uk/bilderberg/index.html

here's the list, i've highlighted a few names that are interesting.

BILDERBERG MEETINGS
SINTRA
JUNE 3RD-6TH 1999
NOT FOR QUOTATION
The forty-seventh Bilderberg Meeting was held at the Caesar Park Hotel Penha Longa, Sintra, Portugal, from June 3rd-6th 1999. There were 111 participants from 24 countries. The participants represented government, diplomacy, politics, business, law, education, journalism and institutes specialising in national and international studies. All participants spoke in a personal capacity, not as representatives of their national governments or employers. As is usual at Bilderberg Meetings, in order to permit frank and open discussion, no public reporting of the conference took place.
This booklet is an account of the 1999 Bilderberg Meeting and is distributed only to participants of this and past conferences and to prospective participants of future conferences. It represents a summary of the panellists' opening remarks for each session, and of the comments and interventions in the subsequent discussion.

PARTICIPANTS
HONORARY CHAIRMAN
Belgium Etienne Davignon Chairman, Société Générale de Belgique
HONORARY SECRETARY GENERAL
Netherlands Victor Halberstadt Professor of Economics, Leiden University
PARTICIPANTS
Italy Umberto Agnelli Chairman, IFIL-Finanziaraia di Partecipazioni
Spain Esperanza Aguirre y Gil de Biedma President of the Spanish Senate United States of America Paul A. Allaire Chairman, Xerox Corporation
Portugal Joaquim F. do Amaral Member of Parliament
Sweden Anders Åslund Senior Associate, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Portugal Francisco Pinto Balsemão Professor of Communication Science, New University, Lisbon; Chairman, IMPRESA
Sweden Percy Barnevik Chairman, Investor
United States of America Evan Bayh Senator (Democrat, Indiana)
Italy Franco Bernabè Managing Director and CEO, Telecom ItaliaSweden Carl Bildt Member of Parliament
Canada Conrad M. Black Chairman, Telegraph Group
United States of America Charles G. Boyd Executive Director, National Security Study Group
Canada John A.D. de Chastelain Chairman, Independent International Commission on Decommissioning
Great Britain Kenneth Clarke Member of Parliament
Norway Kristin Clemet Deputy Director General, Confederation of Business and Industry
France Bertrand Collomb Chairman and CEO, Lafarge
United States of America Jon S. Corzine Retired Senior Partner, Goldman Sachs & Co.
Portugal João Cardona G. Cravinho Minister for Infrastructure, Planning and Territorial Administration
Greece George A. David Chairman of the Board, Hellenic Bottling Company
United States of America Christopher J. Dodd Senator (Democrat, Connecticut)[Page 5]
United States of America Thomas E. Donilon Attorney-at-Law, O'Melveney & Meyers
Turkey Gazi Erçel Governor, Central Bank of TurkeyTurkey Sedat Ergin Ankara Bureau Chief, Hürriyet
United States of America Martin S. Feldstein President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research
International Stanley Fischer First Deputy Managing Director, International Monetary Fund
Italy Paolo Fresco Chairman, Fiat
Italy Francesco Giavazzi Professor of Economics, Bocconi University, Milan
Canada Peter Godsoe C. Chairman and CEO, Bank of Nova Scotia
United States of America Donald E. Graham Publisher, The Washington PostNetherlands Frank H.G. de Grave Minister of Defence
Portugal Eduardo C. Marçal Grilo Minister of Education
United States of America Chuck Hagel Senator (Republican, Nebraska)
Sweden Tom C. Hedelius Chairman, Svenska Handelsbanken
Norway Per Egil Hegge Editor, Aftenposten
Canada Peter A. Herrndorf Former Chairman and CEO, TVOntario; Senior Visiting Fellow, University of Toronto
United States of AmericaJim Hoagland Associate Editor, The Washington PostNorway Westye Höegh Chairman of the Board, Leif Höegh & Co.; Former President, Norwegian Shipowners' Association
United States of America Richard C. Holbrooke Ambassador to the UN designate
Belgium Jan Huyghebaert Chairman, Almanij N.V.
International Otmar Issing Member of the Executive Board, European Central Bank United States of America Vernon E. Jordan Jr. Senior Partner, Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld, LLP (Attorneys-at-Law)
Bulgaria Nikolai Kamov Member of Parliament
Turkey Suna Kiraç Vice-Chairman of the Board, Koç Holding
United States of America Henry A. Kissinger Chairman, Kissinger Associates
Germany Hilmar Kopper Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Deutsche bank Greece Yannos Kranidiotis Alternate Minister for Foreign Affairs
United States of America Marie-Josée Kravis Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute
United States of America Jan Leschly CEO, SmithKline Beecham International Erkki Liikanen Member of the European Commission
Canada Roy MacLaren High Commissioner for Canada in Britain
Canada Margaret O. MacMillan Editor, International Journal Great Britain Peter Mandelson Member of Parliament
United States of America Jessica T. Mathews President, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
United States of America William J. McDonough President, Federal Reserve Bank of New YorkUnited States of America Richard A. McGinn Chairman and CEO, Lucent Technologies
Portugal Vasco de Mello Vice Chairman and CEO, Grupo José de Mello
Ukraine Ihor Mityukov Minister of Finance
France Dominique Moïsi Deputy Director, IFRI
International Mario Monti Member of the European Commission
Portugal Francisco Murteira Nabo President and CEO, Portugal Telecom
Germany Matthias Nass Deputy Editor, Die Zeit
Netherlands Her Majesty the Queen of the NetherlandsIceland David Oddsson Prime Minister
Poland Andrzej Olechowski Chairman, Central Europe Trust
Finland Jorma Ollila Chairman of the Board and CEO, Nokia Corporation
International Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa Member of the Executive Board, European Central BankGermany Werner A. Perger Political Correspondent, Die Zeit
Great Britain Jonathon Porritt Programme Director, Forum for the Future
Italy Alessandro Profumo CEO, Credito Italiano
Switzerland David de Pury Chairman, de Pury Pictet Turrettini & Co.
Austria Gerhard Randa CEO and Chairman, Bank Austria
United States of America Steven Rattner Deputy Chief Executive, Lazard Freres & Co.
United States of America Bill Richardson Secretary of Energy
[Page 7]
United States of America David Rockefeller Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank International Advisory CommitteeSpain Matías Rodriguez lnciarte Executive Vice Chairman, BSCH
Sweden Mauricio Rojas Associate Professor of Economic History, Lund University; Director of Timbro's Centre for Welfare Reform
Great Britain Eric Roll Senior Adviser, Warburg Dillon Read
Sweden Björn Rosengren Minister for Industry, Employment and Communication
Portugal Ricardo E.S. Salgado President and CEO, Grupo Espírito Santo
Portugal Jorge Sampaio President of Portugal
Portugal Nicolau Santos Editor-in-Chief, EXPRESSO
Netherlands Ad J. Scheepbouwer Chairman and CEO, TNT Post Group
Austria Richard Schenz CEO and Chairman of the Board, OMV
Austria Rudolf Scholten Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank
Germany Jürgen E. Schrempp Chairman of the Board of Management, DaimlerChrysler
Denmark Tøger Seidenfaden Editor-in-Chief, Politiken
United States of America Robert B. Shapiro Chairman and CEO, Monsanto Company
Russia Lilia Shevtsova Carnegie Moscow Center
Portugal Artur Santos Silva President and CEO, BPI Group
Spain Pedro Solbes Mira Member of Parliament, Socialist Party
Hungary György Surányi President, National Bank of Hungary
Great Britain J. Martin Taylor Former Chief Executive, BarclaysUnited States of America G. Richard Thoman President and CEO, Xerox Corporation
United States of America John L. Thornton President and CO-COO, Goldman Sachs Group
Russia Dmitri V. Trenin Deputy Director, Carnegie Moscow Center
France Jean-Claude Trichet Governor, Banque de France
United States of America Laura d'Andrea Tyson Dean, Haas School of Business, University of California at Berkeley
Finland Matti Vanhala Chairman of the Board, Bank of Finland
Finland Pentti Vartia Managing Director, Research Institute of the Finnish Economy (ETLA)
[Page 8]
Switzerland Daniel L Vasella Chairman and CEO, Novartis
Greece Thanos M. Veremis Professor of Political History, University of Athens; President of Eliamep
Austria Franz Vranitzky Former Federal Chancellor
Netherlands Lodewijk J. de Waal Chairman, Dutch Confederation of Trade Unions (FNV)
Great Britain Martin Wolf Associate Editor and Economics Commentator, The Financial Times
International/
United States of America James D. Wolfensohn President, The World BankGermany Otto Wolff von Amerongen Chairman and CEO of Otto Wolff GmbH
Turkey Erkut Yücaoglu Chairman, Tusiad
Czechoslovakia Michael Zantovský Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defense and Security, Czech Senate
Austria Norbert Zimmermann Chairman, Berndorf
RAPPORTEURS
Great Britain John Micklethwait New York Bureau Chief, The Economist
Great Britain Adrian Wooldridge Foreign Correspondent, The EconomistIN ATTENDANCE
Netherlands Maja Banck Executive Secretary, Bilderberg Meetings
Portugal João A. Estarreja Local Organiser 1999 Conference
United States of America Michael J. Farren Adviser, American Friends of Bilderberg, Inc.
Austria Diemut Kastner Local Organiser 2000 Conference

This roll call represents a who's who of financing in the world, the journalists and telecommunications people are interesting too. And some of government reps are interesting. But what is more interesting is we have all the checks and balances in one room, speaking on an agenda that is not advertised or explained. Some of the people at the meeting are the people we trust to tell us if the other people at the meeting are trying to cheat us. There would be no problem if the reporters ever "reported" what goes on but that is forbidden. And I would feel better if the people who are responsible for the laws that govern industry weren't holding hands with industry so closely. It cannoot be assumed that they have the best interest of us in mind when they don't tell us what they have in mind.

For those who beleive in the official story.

What about this ?

1999-September 11, 2001: NORAD Exercise Simulates Crashes into US Buildings; One of Them Is the World Trade Center

According to USA Today, “In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conduct[s] exercises simulating what the White House [later] says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.” One of these imagined targets is the World Trade Center. According to NORAD, these scenarios are regional drills, rather than regularly scheduled continent-wide exercises. They utilize “[n]umerous types of civilian and military aircraft” as mock hijacked aircraft, and test “track detection and identification; scramble and interception; hijack procedures; internal and external agency coordination; and operational security and communications security procedures.” The main difference between these drills and the 9/11 attacks is that the planes in the drills are coming from another country, rather than from within the US. Before 9/11, NORAD reportedly conducts four major exercises at headquarters level per year. Most of them are said to include a hijack scenario (see Before September 11, 2001) [USA Today, 4/18/04; CNN, 4/19/04]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...-18-norad_x.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/04/19/norad.exercise/

Timeline of exercices

such as :

Between October 24 and 28, 2000: Military Holds Exercise Rehearsing Response to a Plane Crash at the Pentagon

Early August 2001: Mass Casualty Exercise at the Pentagon Includes a Plane Hitting the Building

On 9/11

(6:30 a.m.): NORAD on Alert for Emergency Exercises
8:30 a.m.: US Military Holding ‘Practice Armageddon’ Nationwide Training Exercise
8:30 a.m.: FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist Task Force Away From Washington on Training Exercise in California
8:46 a.m.: Fighters Are Training over North Carolina; Not Recalled to Washington Until Much Later
8:48 a.m.: Barksdale Air Force Base, Louisiana, Preparing for Global Guardian Exercise When Attacks Start
Just Before 9:00 a.m.: Two Otis Fighters Take Off for Training Mission Over Ocean
(9:09 a.m. and After): Numerous False Reports of Hijacked Aircraft
9:28 a.m.: NORAD Possibly Holding ‘Live-Fly’ Training Exercise

Full timeline here : http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timelin...litaryExercises



What about PTECH/PROMIS Software ?

The real issue with the FAA on 9/11 is Ptech.
Ptech (now Go Agile) was the company that supplied the enterprise architecture software for most of the federal government and its military agencies. This included the Whitehouse, Secret Service, Air Force and FAA. This software is able to analyze the critical data throughout an enterprise in real-time. For federal aviation, the most critical data of all lies on FAA radar screens.

Ptech was owned and funded by Saudi terror financiers with reported links to the Bush administration. But it was the Clinton administration that granted Ptech high military security clearance in 1996, when they began receiving contracts throughout the entire federal government.

Why wasn't Ptech ever mentioned in the 9/11 Commission report? Why is the FAA being blamed for 9/11 without any mention of the appalling fact that Ptech was in the FAA for (at least) 2 years with access to their entire data blueprint and all FAA databases?

Ptech's software is powerful enough to have allowed intentional, specific manipulation of real-time information on FAA radar screens. Remember, on 9/11 the Air Force was in the middle of simulated war games that involved false blips, referred to as "radar injects," on FAA screens (see Crossing the Rubicon for full documentation). Add into this equation the very real possibility of such an inject remaining on FAA screens after the war games were called off - which seems to be exactly what happened.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/..._faa_knew.shtml


"I'd rather be crazy than this to be true"

"There's something a little bizarre about all of this, and really, I was beginning to understand, unwillingly, that the world was not the way we thought of it ... this was beginning to sound like a Tom Clancy novel."

"All of this stuff took money to fund, and it was funded through major financial crimes, money laundering, and looting of the S&L, of the banking system, of HUD and what we're in the middle of now, the looting of social security... this is all being done systematically to keep the slush funds up for the game at play."

"It's not just going to be the Muslims hate America. That's not what it is. There's something else going on here. They are being used as a tool, just as the good people of the United States are being misled, and frightened and terrorized..."

"I'm seeing the people who are being put in place, like Negroponte, I'm hearing the inside responses to that ... Most people are looking for exit strategies, moving to France, moving to Canada... but there are no exit strategies for this."

"It isn't just going to be American, it is going to be global."

"They are going to make the Third Reich look like a tea party"

http://209.81.10.18:80//data/20050427-Wed1400.mp3

http://209.81.10.18:80//data/20050720-Wed1400.mp3

July 20th 2005 Inteview with Indira Singh "Ground Zero 911, Blueprint For Terror, Part Two" : http://www.kpfa.org/archives/archives.php?id=13&limit=N

Many people who have investigated 9/11 consider this to be the proof

If I can trust my brother on his research. My family conquered and ruled England. We were snuffed out by our uncle and the female side fled to the new world.

The story he starts with is true. I have no idea if we are descendents or not.

The Insiders have their own plan. They took control of Englands money four hundred years ago. They took control of our money a hundred years ago. If they are anything, they are patient.

--

I hunt. A thing I know. Oaks grow on the top of hills. Another thing I know, acorns roll down hill.

Squirrels go down the hill, gather the acorns and bring them up the hill to plant.

They like to build their nest in tall trees on ridges so they can see predators. They like their food close. It might take generations but they collect acorns for that specific purpose.

There is precident in nature for the way the Insiders act.

I hunt too, and thats a good analogy.

Thanks. It's nice to find another authentic man on the forum.

So NORAD was trying to prepare for something like 9/11. What sorts of disasters did they prepare for that did NOT happen? Your quote about PTech has lots of "seems" and "appears" and "is possible", i.e., not one shred of hard proof.
As usual, the 9/11 conspriacy theorists present some details from a web site that has an ax to grind, they do not put the details in context, and no hard proof, just "what if" kind of statements. Useless to anybody who hasn't made up their mind yet, useless to people who like facts and full analyses that cover all possibilities before making up their minds.


And who are the Insiders? What does that have to do with your ancestors? Nice story about what squirrels do, but it proves nothing. How about this? Trees get hit by lightning, burn and fall down. So do World Trade Centers.

So, how is city life treating you?

Most people assume squirrels bury acorns to dig up later as food. Fact is, a sky rodent would be an idiot to put food in the soon to be frozen ground. Squirrels bury acorns to pant trees for generations to come.

That's the key. Not just grandchildren and greatgrandchildren. Think a couple generations later -- assuming MTV, PlayStation minds are able.

Spraky just because something is beyond your scope of understanding is no reason to ridicule it. If anything your comments illustrate your own deficient intellect. Please refrain from displaying your hind quarters in the future.

City life is fine. No doubt you intend something by that remark, but I'll let you say what the intention is, if it's important.
Wonderful, so you use squirrels as an analogy to your "Insiders". Now you might answer my question: who are the Insiders and what is your proof for their existence? What are their qualities? What are their plans? Why should anyone else believe in them and why should anyone else care? For such a down-home, common-sense, no-nonsense country dweller like yourself who can wax poetic about the planning skills of squirrels, these questions should be easy.
Thanks in advance.

And what comments are those? I can't explain my comments if I don't know which ones you're referring to. But maybe your point was just to make a witty remark and use the term "hind quarters". If so, then ignore this post.

You should really read more than just what i quoted.Like i said in the previous post this requiere to be familiar with the whole story about NORAD on 9/11.

Full list of exercices
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timelin...litaryExercises

"The command center for Global Guardian, the master wargame that apparently incorporated Vigilant Guardian, Northern Guardian, Vigilant Warrior and the rest, was at Offut Air Force Base. The head honcho, Admiral Mies, was with Buffet and the business leaders at the charity breakfast, until he decided it was time to bid adieu and check on things. This was AFTER the second crash, at which point I guess he figured primary mission was already accomplished and he couldn't pretend he didn't know some kind of emergency was up.

As we know, Offut is where Bush flew after he dragged himself away from "The Pet Goat." The years of planning leading up to the exercises on the day clearly incorporated hijacking and domestic "armaggedon" scenarios. There is even a record that the 9/11 scenario was rehearsed on actual passenger planes with actors and FBI guys playing the roles of hijackers, passengers and crew (which based on what we know is likely to be what one or more of the 9/11 flights were also doing).

All this is what we've known or suspected all along, but I've never seen it so beautifully hashed out in detail with this much backing in mainstream sources. Amazing work from Paul Thompson and the CCR crew. (It's not Credence Clearwater Revival, but it sure rocks!)

At least one false blip or live-fly distraction has been confirmed as still confusing response three minutes AFTER the initial question of "live fly or exercise", putting the lie to Eberhard's cheap excuses in the 9/11 Commission Report. (Newhouse News article on NEADS of 1/25/02.) Of course, there is also the matter of "Phantom 11" and the "up to eleven" suspected hijackings or unknown blips we already have heard so much about, including in the Kean Commission's fraudulent report."


Someone was also in control of all these exercices that morning.This control was possible because of Promis software.

Read the full transcript of the 2nd part, maybe you will start to understand the link with right wing catholic group and islamist terrorist.Don't that bother you they invest and get access to the same company ? Especialy when that company produce milatary defense software ?

Full transcript of Indira Singh Interview

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ress=103x142316

B.F.: What do you mean Ptech was a Middle Eastern company?

IS: Well, that’s what subsequently was revealed in the phone call – that their financier, their funders, their investors, were all Saudis. And I said, “so what?” and they said, one Saudi has been placed on the US Terror List, October 12, 2001


Tell me why the FBI only acted after indira Singh found out ?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/200...08-secure01.htm
http://www.criminology.com/articles/ptech_story.html

That's being said,as you critized my source, never heard of cynthia McKinney ?

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stori...atmckinney.html

http://www.cynthiaforcongress.com/


Notice how defensive they went when the question was asked.

CMK: Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (D-GA)
DR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
RM: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers
TJ: Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) Tina Jonas
DH: Chairman Representative Duncan Hunter (R-CA)

CMK: The question was, we had four wargames going on on September 11th, and the question that I tried to pose before the Secretary had to go to lunch was whether or not the activities of the four wargames going on on September 11th actually impaired our ability to respond to the attacks.

RM: The answer to the question is no, it did not impair our response, in fact General Eberhart who was in the command of the North American Aerospace Defense Command as he testified in front of the 9/11 Commission I believe - I believe he told them that it enhanced our ability to respond, given that NORAD didn't have the overall responsibility for responding to the attacks that day. That was an FAA responsibility. But they were two CPXs; there was one Department of Justice exercise that didn't have anything to do with the other three; and there was an actual operation ongoing because there was some Russian bomber activity up near Alaska. So we -

CMK: Let me ask you this, then: who was in charge of managing those wargames?

DH: General, why don't you give the best answer that you can here in a short a period of time and we'll - the gentlelady wants to get a written answer anyway, and then we can move on to other folks.

RM: The important thing to realize is that North American Aerospace Defense Command was responsible. These are command post exercises; what that means is that all the battle positions that are normally not filled are indeed filled; so it was an easy transition from an exercise into a real world situation. It actually enhanced the response; otherwise, it would take somewhere between 30 minutes and a couple of hours to fill those positions, those battle stations, with the right staff officers.

CMK: Mr. Chairman, begging your indulgence, was September Eleventh declared a National Security Special Event day?

RM: I have to look back; I do not know. Do you mean after the fact, or

CMK: No. Because of the activities going on that had been scheduled at the United Nations that day.

RM: I'd have to go back and check. I don't know.

Read more here : http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/...ranscript.shtml

Of course they said it helped but the fact about fighter interception proove otherwise.(See previous link).

Good one YY, ignore spraky he's not really into reading much.

OK, from your link I see that there were many exercises and preparations for disasters that did not happen, such as mass bio attack in NYC, Pennsylvania mass casulties, to name two. But I don't know what your point is about this list: that the Pentagon was doing these exercises because they're part of the 9/11 conspiracy, or that with all this planning they should have been able to stop 9/11, or something else? Please tell me what you think it means.

As for the rest, well, could you just sum up in your own words what you think happened, who is responsible and your sources for thinking so? Really, I can't read your mind just because I read all these links.


Well, I'm not into reading a bunch of links without really knowing where the whole conversation is going. I've asked YY to succinctly sum up all his thoughts about 9/11, his conclusions about who is responsible, etc, and then providing evidence for why anyone else should think the same way. It should be easy for anyone who can express themselves clearly and think clearly.

Actually you could read his mind if yor read the links, I don't know how you missed that he was trying to give you an insight into his mind, but that is why he provided the links. Do you really think he would reference material that didn't represent his thinking?

What if the owner of the house took out a record insurance policy just days before the crash so that when his house was totaled he collected ten times the amount he paid initially. What if the owner accidentally slilpped up and said on a nationaly broadcast TV show that he decided to demolish his house on the same day after the truck hit it. Wouldn't you want to investigate for at least insurance fraud. But I saw on TV that big truck crash into the house and start on fire.

The exact same thing happened on 9/11. Larry Silverstien said he demolished building 7 which wasn't even hit by a plane, and then he collected his insurance policy he put on the building shortly before the accident. Do the research for yourself, I used to think anyone who thought 9/11 was an inside job was nucking futs, just like you do. I thought I knew the whole story, because I watched the news daily for two years after 9/11.

I think Van Halen said it best when they said"right now your government is doing things you think only other governments do"

Of course the guy took out a huge insurance policy on all the WTC bldgs he bought. Who wouldn't? And when you say he collected "ten times" the amount he paid initially, was that ten times what he put up in cash, or ten times the total value of the bldgs, including mortgage? My house is insured for $120,000, what I paid for it, although I only put up $15,000 in cash. If your house was hit by a truck a couple of months after you bought and insured it, should I doubt your word?
And the "pull it". How do you know he wasn't talking about the fire dep't team he thought was still in WTC7? Yes, I know "pull" is the industry term to demolish a bldg, that doesn't mean every time a real estate person says "pull" I should think they mean demolish something.

Do you think the insurance companies would pay him if it was so obvious that he demolished his own bldg? Did they even attempt to try to demonstrate that he was responsible? No, they didn't. There was a trial (to decide if 9/11 was one incident or two) and they paid up the money. Or are they in on the conspiracy, too?

The Silverstein quote ends with "And they [the E.R. fire dep't commander] made that decision to pull." So, if we decide Silverstein was speaking the full truth in that chaotic situation, he is saying the NYFD demolished the bldg. Is that what you're saying? If you read the whole (very short) quote, and decide that "pull" means demolish, then you must conclude the NYFD demolished the bldg.

scooby: you don't have to think that conspiranoids are nucking futs, just poor thinkers who are a bit paranoid, who can't accept that a small group of amateur pilot foreigners could kill thousands fairly easily.

First of all the only reason you don't believe in the 9/11 conspiracy is because you haven't taken the time to learn what has been kept a secret from you. THere were actually drills of hijacked planes being flown in the twin towers at 8:30 a.m. on 9/11 the same exact exercise as what really happened in New york. It was called Operation vigilant gaurdian.

Why would they want to stop 9/11 from happening. Do you know that plans were drawn up as early as the late 1990's to attack Iraq, and rebuild the middle east in the image of America in order to maintain American supremecy. Ever heard of PNAC? Without 9/11, they could have never carried out thier plan, because no one would be willing to preemptivly attack a country unless we were attacked first. 9/11 was an inside job, and we will most likely be attacked in the next 90 days, either biological or nuclear, in order to justify attacking Iran next. Welcome to AmeriKa!

Missing tanker trucks Scooby. Lots and lots of missing tanker have been stolen all up and down the east coast in the past two years. 3 last year out of Pennsauken here in South Jersey and two out of Paulsboro in South Jersey. Look at all the local crime logs but you will find nothing in the news on the National level. Trust me. I'm scared shitless because I work near all those refineries and I hope I'm home that day here in the Pine Barrens when it happens.

lapiche

Which in and of itself explains to a high degree the idiocy of the conspiracy theories for the most part...people who have no clue telling others about the clue they don't have and the others who are just as clueless then bantering it around as some sort of Gospel.

Because we represent the biggest armed malitia against the government in the world. You cannot just say, IM TAKING OVER when your taking over. You need some smoke screens to shade what you are doing. You need people putting out the fires you started, while lighting fires elsewhere..
No matter what you think, starting a new world order behind the eyes of billions would be harder then you think =).

No tell me how you really feel about it, I insist, your being too vague.

Its funny watching isis post. As dmgspycat said, she only tries to debunk theories by criticizing what was posted. No matter what link you post, no matter where it comes from, Via national archives, personal research from books and papers, Nothing can get through to her. Isis nobody is saying you are a dumb female, however you are thick headed and close minded. You try to insult people by calling them "conspiracy theorists" in an insulting way. You may not call people names directly, however you try to make people seem less educated then yourself by posting nonsense, and personal beliefs. NEVER have I seen you post a link to prove any ideas you have, Much less anything other then what is just your personal opinion on a matter, then calling someone else crazy for what they post. Maybe it is time, that you open your eyes, to something other then the TV, and read some of the links people provide, or maybe even listen to some things that people say, you can learn some things that you didnt know before. Most of these "conspiracy" threads are not even "conspiracy". People ask questions, then you get replies from people such as dmgspycat with links to national archives and such on where they get their info, And then you get the useless, uneducated, and self expressed view on what you "feel" on what someone has posted with information pertaining to the subject. Now why dont you take your thread trolling self, and go find some information on the subject to back up something, anything, that you say. That way we dont have to listen to your personal views, and you can back up something you say, like all these people you call "conspiracy theorists" do. And when you say, "the few people that say they know something we dont " Yea they do know something.. They know how to provide links, they know usually how to be civil, and they know how to make an arguement for what they are typing.
If you went back 600 years and said the world was round, you would be considered the idiot. Now go 10 years into the future, and you will probably get the same results. Now im done wasting good forum space on you, I look forward to the day when you bring ideas, and information thats of use to a subject. Good day to you, and good luck to you with the research you wont be doing.

Actually you are wrong on several occasions she has posted links. Not only that she has addressed the links provided by the consiracy theorist and addressed their points or lack of. She had admitted some issues are questionable but could connect dots in the same manner the theorist have. She has posted links herself which were treated in same manner you claim she treated links supplied by theorist. Research the NUMEROUS threads created by the theorist to support their claim and you will find them.

Good point, and I am probably wrong. However, I have read 4 threads on this front page, and 2nd page, not to mention countless others, and never have I seen a link provided by Isis. However, I shouldnt have to search through previous threads to find a link to a point she is trying to make, if she has a point to make, post a link with the info where she gets it from, like the theorists do. And I done even need to leave this thread on where she tries to sound "witty" and make others to look foolish. And in the past 2 days alone I have researched NUMEROUS threads, and seen NUMEROUS posts by isis.. And in those NUMEROUS posts, there was nothing but personal beliefs, and ideas, that ive seen. As I said, I look forward to when I see a link with info coming from her, ESPECIALLY if it is not from our Main Stream news, yet from a source of research by someone in a neutral position, that tries to check all sides of the spectrum,such as most people when they come to these threads. But on a different note, Excellent job cheerleading =), keep it up..

"personal belief" applies to both sides I would suggest before thread is closed that topic be discussed and not issis although I am sure she enjoys how important you make her

Well yea, if useless is important, then well, your important to me also =).. Thanks for playing the trolling game..

Can we move the topic away from criticising certain members please, lets stick to the subject being discussed.

Stixxman, the squirrels are looking for you. They think you're nuts.

scoobysnack and others in the 911 Truth Movement:[size=3]

It is pointless to get engaged in ego-pong with people that will not do the 911 research themselves. All you can do is be a sign pointing to the information, and then simply allow those who have the inclination to dig up the truth, do so. Those who refuse to understand that they are being spoon fed by the mainstream media will haughtily sit at their computers and fire off responses without any real information about 911. They are a waste of time to deal with.

If anyone here (with a modicum of open-mindedness left) were to go to:
http://www.911proof.com/
and take 30 minutes to begin researching the links provided on that page, they would, at the very least, discover that there are serious questions about 911 that must still be answered.

This is my first and last post. Godspeed truth seekers.

They dont have headaches from it. They benefit.
http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/08..._911_to_big.htm

i guess simply put as you would want it to be, if suddenly the government said "OK from now on all your money is going to be in a world centralised bank system with no physical money to be used, the UN will become the worlds army, every country will be part of the same united system, oh and we need to put chips in new born children and link them to a national database"

there would be world uheaval, noone would want it, there would be riots and governments would fall etc.

if each thing is introduced very slowly with reasons to back it up (eg terrorism - fear, blind trust 'what will they do about it' - wars, persecution of religious groups, id cards, patriot act etc etc) then each part can be implemented one by one over a number of years.

its fine to disbelieve that anything could be happening like this, but if you feel that all is fine and well and our trust in those who are in power is justified and feel that they make the right choices always, then we pretty much might as well roll over and let them implement it now