Ken Korczak: What are you worried about right now? Well, it’s an almost guarantee that you are worried about nothing, for the very reason that you don’t exist! You have no worries because you have no mind or body or life to worry with — it’s all an illusion. No worries, but more significantly, no worrier. If you think this sounds like utter nonsense, some of the most brilliant scientists, philosophers and theological thinkers of our century would disagree with you.Science and math suggest that we humans don’t exist, (even though there is really no math or science — more illusions!)The advent of quantum mechanics and modern physics increasingly imply that our existence as human beings is a kind of persistent illusion. We are under the false assumption that we’re people, we only imagine we have bodies and brains, and minds functioning inside those brains.

Illusions, all of it. Listen to what one of the greatest physicists of the century, Authur Eddington said of quantum theories:“In the world of physics…the shadow of my elbow rests on the shadow table as the shadow ink flows over the shadow paper…the frank realization that physical science is concerned with a world of shadow is one of the most significant of recent advances.”

By “shadow” Eddington meant illusion. More than any other science, it is particle physics that is confronting the fundamentals of reality, and more and more, the evidence point to the fact there is no reality!For the past 300-some years, the world has been under the impression that everything is made up of atoms, “the building blocks of the universe.” It was the great Isaac Newton who solidified our impression that atoms were like billiard balls. Pile enough of them on top of each other, set them in motion and you get rocks, trees, animals and people.But in 1900 Albert Einstein’s hero, the brilliant Max Planck, revealed some incredibly disturbing discoveries he made while trying to solve problems concerning the radiation of energy.To make a long story short, Planck was forced to conclude that matter at its most fundamental level is not continuous, not solid. There are no tiny billiard balls. When you break down an atom, you get an electron, a proton and maybe a neutron. But it turns out these are not the smallest units either. You can break things down further to bosons, quarks, W particles, tachyons and a lot of other shadowy “things” that just sort of wink in and out of existence.

Where do things go when they “wink out?” Nowhere! They cease to exist! Then they come back again.So what? you might ask. Well, as you know, the human body is made up from the fundamental elements of nature. We are mostly water, but we also have iron in our blood, calcium in our bones, and such. But each of those substances are made up of individual atoms, which in turn are made up of ghostly bits of nothing that just sort of come and go, in and out of reality.Scientists call this blinking process “quantum fluctuation.”So when the elements of your body fluctuate, so does your body, and so do you! So does you brain and the chemicals in your brain! In fact, you may be in a state of nothingness more often than you are in a state of somethingness (even though there really is no somethingness!)As the currently popular medical guru Depack Chopra points out, all of us our dead (nonexistent) for much of the time, yet we are all constantly afraid of dying, not realizing we are dead much of the time! (Oh by the way, there’s no such thing as time either.

Einstein proved it was an illusion, but we won’t get into that right now).Even at its most solid state, the atom turns out to be not very solid at all. Atoms are 99.999999 empty space. If the nucleus of an atom were the size of a ping-pong ball, and if you were to place it in the center of a large football stadium, the electrons that orbit around the nucleus would be at the outer walls of the stadium.What is between the nucleus and the electron? Nothing! And what are the nucleus and electron made from? Smaller and smaller bits of energy which are not solid, but actually whirling fragments of light.Even a block of solid lead is nothing and light, acting as “something.” So is your car. So are the chemicals in your brain. So are you.Once during a long, boring drive from Grand Forks to southern Missouri with one of my graduate school professors, we became embroiled in a lengthy debate about the deep issues of the universe. I argued that all was illusion, and he argued for solid reality.

When I mentioned the unreal nature of fundamental particles, he said:“That makes no difference! All this means is that these flucuating bits of energy are what we are made out of — but we are still us, still the same, still real solid people. Are your saying is that we are more fundamental than atoms.”He also said: “If I whacked you with a baseball bat, I bet your pain wouldn’t feel like an illusion!”At the time, I was stumped to answer because that was before I understood the nature — or more accurately — the mechanics of illusion. I didn’t realize that even our argument was an illusion!The fact is, my professor and I could have argued for years on end and neither of us would have convinced the other because BOTH of our aurguments were false! Why? Because neither of our arguments exist!The fact is, language is one of the primary ways in which we become deceived into believing in solid reality. Once a creature reaches the stage where it can manipulate symbolic language, you can bet that creature is deeply buried under many layers of illusion.I also should have quoted the Uncertainty Principle and the Incompleteness Theorm to my professor.

You see, the idea that language is all illusion is not a simple belief, but a fact which has been proved mathematically. Back in the 1920s, a German math genius by the name of Kurt Godel produced a rigorous mathematical demonstration which showed that all logic was ultimately self contradictory.Godel’s proof is known as Godel’s Theorm, but also as the Incompleteness Theorm. It states this:“It is impossible to to establish the logical consistency of any complex deductive system except by assuming principles of reasoning whose own internal consistency is an open question as that of the system itself.”

Whew! That’s just a fancy way of saying that, no matter what your viewpoint — it’s wrong! You will never be able to convince someone of what you believe because all rhetoric is, by nature, fundamentally inconsistent.That’s why arguing politics and religion is so frustrating — no one is ever right, literally! All arguments are rigged from the start!.But there’s even more bad news for reality. It’s called the Heisenbreg Uncertainty principle, suggested and later proved by one of the fathers of quantum mechanics, the great Werner Heisenberg. His principle states:“The position and the velocity of an object cannot both be measured exactly, at the same time, not even in theory. The very concepts of exact position and exact velocity together, in fact, have no meaning in nature.”What this means is that physical objects cannot be pinned down to absolutely exist in any one place at any given time. Like Godel’s Theorm, this principle comes with a rigorous mathemetical proof.So not only are all verbal arugments fundamentally inconsistent, and therefore false, but physical matter ultimately cannot be measured.

As one physicist put it:“Our conception of substance is only vivid so long as we do not face it. It begins to fade when we analyze it … the solid substance of things is another illusion … we have chased the solid substance from the continuous liquid to the atom, from the atom to the electron, and there we have lost it.”It’s amazing how complimentary Godel’s Theorm and the Uncertainty Principle are — they both devastate the idea of a solid physcial world filled with ultimate “truths.” There are no objects, no people and no truth. We’ve only been tricked into thinking so, as weird as this sounds.Who have we been tricked by? Ourselves! And we don’t exist! Odd!You might ask: How does knowing that you don’t exist help you with your daily troubles? Well, in fact, it helps a lot. Indeed, this knowledge can lead you to an extreme state of happiness, even bliss. How?By getting to work at realizing that you are buried under many layers of very tricky, persistent illusions, which because of their mathematical inconsistency, are driving you nuts! It seems like you can never find ultimate truth, true peace and the purest of love becaue you are trying to get these things under the false assumption that they exist in some real way.

They don’t. And neither does pain, suffering and worry.The greater degree to which you become aware that you and your world is all sticky illusion, the greater your feeling of being happy, loving and truthful will become. Why this is so becomes plain when we give a more conventional example of how illusions cause pain.We all know someone who has mistaken money for what money represents, or mistaken money for happiness. Money itself is just paper, a symbol which rerpresents material goods. Some people fall under the illusion that money is an end it itself, so they mindlessly persue more and more of the green stuff until they have a heart attack and die.All would agree it’s good to be free of the illusion of money and materialism.Well, as it turns out, the more illusions we get rid of, the better off we are.

Getting rid of illusions like money, drugs and sex addictions is easy compared to getting rid of major illusions like death, time, language, and physical existence, but it’s far from impossible.I should warn you also, that the more you try to achieve happiness, the worse off you’re likely to get because happiness is an illusory concept which does not exist. You’ll get very frustrated, although frustration does not exist either. Sorry.So it’s better to work on getting rid of illusions themselves and let the rest take care of itself.The brilliant psychologist-philospher-author Ken Wilber describes seven layers of illusion in his groundbreaking book, The Spectrum of Consciousness. In this book, Wilber takes you step by step through the kind of illusions human are trapped within, from Nothing to the deepest layer of illusion, which he calls “dualisms.”The more you understand the nature of illusions, the various kinds of illusions, (especially language, time, the separation of objects in space) the more likely you are to find your way out.

This is what Zen and other forms of meditation are about — to get you to stop thinking so that the ultimate silence of the greater reality of Nothing can be realized.But as any Zen master would warn you, the minute you start thinking that Zen meditation is going to help you, or that the Zen philosophy is going to help you, or any philosophy or any religion — in that assumption you get lost again!What’s truly weird about illusion is that you have to use illusions to get rid of them, and it’s hard describe how this gets done. Remember Godel’s Theorm: all arugments based in language are fundamentally inconsistent, and therefore, just more traps.Even what you are reading here right now is a trap, though this article strives to point out the fact that you are trapped by illusions! But I think it’s at least better to know you’re in jail, than being in jail and thinking this prison we call “life” is our true home.

Some might say: “Okay, but it’s better to exist as an illusion that suffers than to be nothing at all!”So let me throw you this bone: The big Nothing scientists and philosophers speak of is not so much the complete lack of anything, as it is a singularity of pure Virtual Potential. It does not exist, but has the potential to exist if it wants to. It’s Nothing, but a kind of dynamic Nothing. Whatever. Words and labels are tricky.But the reason you have the illusion of being, along with its joy and suffering — you want it. At the same time, you can have the bliss of realizing Infinite Potential without the suffering of the illusion of objective existence. In fact, this is your condition right now. You just don’t know it. It’s weird. A lot of people who read this article are going to say: “Jeez! What a load of utter nonsense!” And guess what? They’re right!

Please take a moment to visit Ken's Webs site at: www.starcopywriter.com

What the hell??

First, what's with all the question marks in the story?
second, I just hit myself in the leg, and guess what...I'm as solid as solid can be! Thanks a lot, now I have a bruise on my leg!!

This is a whack theory. I like to see him say its all an illusion if someone punched him in the face. Not to mention all the study he is doing, is just an illusion, all the mathematical theory, is just an illusion. So therefore, how is it possible that you can explain an illusion WITH an illusion ?, not possible. You cannot prove something is not real, with something else that is not real.

unless the thing that you're trying to prove isn't real which makes everything that you think is real isn't real making life an illusion.

It doesn't make logical sense. He's still trying to prove life is not real, using techniques and theory that are not real either. If this illusionary theory is correct, that means everything in the universe is an illusion as well. Personally, it seems like he's seen the Matrix too many times.

haha I agree, but the matrix is 'real' when they exit our normal everyday lives, they're back in the 'real' world. but I understand the road you're getting at, his view I guess though, though not many would follow it. not because they're scared, but because its not logical. things dont just dissapear, they go 'somewhere' but we cannot see nor know where that 'somewhere' is. another reality one of the 14? or another dimension, a possible kazilliongahizzian (haha made up number, basically theres a dimension for where every decision that was, took/takes a different lane ect ect)

Like Jesus making wine from water.
If everything is nothing, then something can be turned into nothing then back into something else. Oui, Non? Deep stuff.

I like this entry... makes you think. But don't think too hard... you might confuse yourself.
Ah.. the complexities of existance. So complicated yet so simple.
Don't fret all, we'll find out the truth.

I have to agree he's overstating the point, but then again, everything is wrong...(that point I actually agree with, although it's more of a citation of his than it is a real point). And to all the geniuses who hit themselves to disprove that a large portion of atoms are "empty space", bravo. You've just proved that there's more to physical existance than mass. I wonder what would happen if two solar systems collide...probably wouldn't work quite as well as two atoms, but then again, if you got the relative speed right, who knows.

The biggest problem with his theory is that he is speaking in absolute terms. In absolute terms there is 'something' and there is 'nothing'- no in betweens- no alternative suggestions. He makes a vast assumption that quarks when they 'disappear'- disappear into Nothingness... PROVE IT! prove that this is where quarks actually go... its also possible that quarks don't disappear into Nothingness but instead enter into another form of reality. The assumptions here area based on extreme thoughts of dualtiy... which are probably inaccurate for the most part.

Even if everything is really not real, it wouldn't make any difference. We're still conscious of whatever life is, whether it is illusion or real.

I strongly dislike this concept of everyone chooses all that happens to them in life.
To me it is just a modernized version of saying the rape victim is responsible for the rape because "they wanted it."

ooops! sorry Alien for posting a reply under your statement- that was my first time- just getting use to this. So, i shall restate:

"The biggest problem with his theory is that he is speaking in absolute terms. In absolute terms there is 'something' and there is 'nothing'- no in betweens- no alternative suggestions. He makes a vast assumption that quarks when they 'disappear'- disappear into Nothingness... PROVE IT! prove that this is where quarks actually go... its also possible that quarks don't disappear into Nothingness but instead enter into another form of reality. The assumptions here area based on extreme thoughts of dualtiy... which are probably inaccurate for the most part."

Let's face it, its a stupid theory, for the most part.

Hmm - so then this article is an illusion and the dots on my screen that represent the letters of the article on my computer are an illusion. So what's the point of this article? - oh - I forgot - this is all an illusion so there is no point. Silly me

Anyway, a couple of the statements in this article are inaccurate. The fact that Einstein included time as the fourth dimension in his equations of relativity and basically put it on the same footing as the other three dimensions of space (thus formulating what is now known as "space-time") doesn't seem consistent with it being an illusion. Also, Godel's theorem states that there are some things in mathematics and logic which cannot be proven, not that logic is contradictory. Godel's proof is often referred to as the "incompleteness theorem" indicating that there are things in mathematics which cannot be proven true or false.

If this is an illusion...What can we really do?
What can we taste,see,touch,smell, and hear?
What Can WE Change?

Well Any Thoughts!!

what a relief!!!!!
money is an illusion, and in my case not much of an illusion.
therefore the bills which i have a hard time covering, are an illusion as well and i needn't be concerned about them.
so when i'm eventually thrown out of my house for not doing anything, the cold will be an illusion.
on the depressing side, beer and golf are then an illusion.
nevermind, i'm not even writng this.

Ah.. thoughts.. the essense of something from nothing.
Try to trace back your thoughts... find it?
If your thoughts came from nothing is it really something?
Ah what do I know.. we don't exist..
or is it that we don't exist from a physical standpoint?
Hmmmm... still thinking

people always want to know that the pain and suffering they endure isn't really there, and so that makes their worries dissapear, slightly.

I do not think he should jump the gun and say nothing exists, just because we dont understand the fundelmentals of everything smaller than an electron. we know its there, and what if the 'empty space' is actually full of something. there is no solid evidence its empty, only specualtion.

I could go on, but I'm watching stargate on skyone ( ), thus from what I just stated, I dont agree with his article, its kind of like a scapegoat. as I do not beleive in good and evil, he's basically saying murder, saddness, hope, love and generousity are not there, that people do not commit or feel the emotions, because people do.

besides, nothing is actually something.

It all boils down to just one thing....... another theory.

That is some retarded S-H skip a letter to da T.


I agree that it's possible that this "nothing-ness" inside of an atom may actualy be something. Who are we to say that these "things" [forgot the name of them] disappear into nothing-ness? Just because we can no longer see it, it's gone into nothing-ness?

The first big mistake this man is making,is assumming he knows what reality is.If he knows,I'd like to hear about that.Like what ZeroShadow said,Just because what is inside an atom may be different than what was originally thought,why should we assume that we do not exist?He just wants to make his views stand out,so he puts a big flashy label on them.Has he split the atom down to it's smallest particle?If so,I'd like to hear about that to.

Of course nothing is something because if nothing was nothing then something would be nothing cause there would be nothing for something to compare with and something would be nothing anyway.
Get it?
Cause I didn't.. he he.

And I think Stargate is cool.. they mix science and religion and it makes sense sort of.... *shrugs*

Once you understand... you are confronted by millions of illusions... because understanding is what causes us to exist in the first place.

You actually don't want yourself to know the truth... if you did... you would kill yourself.

I guess no one is really curious enough, huh?

How do you know I'd kill myself?Do you know the truth?If so how come you haven't killed yourself yet?

Exactly.

the truth is my friends. the truth is the cookie

This guy either doesnt know what he's talking about, or he simply doesnt have the right words to express himself. His attitude is most alarming though. "Your worries are an illusion!" Well, whatever he means by "illusion", Im still experiencing them.

Right, just a bunch of nonsense. So to put it into further discussion, he continues to study illusions that tell him that we are all illusions. Once again, how is he taking these illusion at face value that are suppose to give him definitive answers ?.

Maybe WEre All Crazy

If reality is only an illusion, then what are dreams? An illusion within an illusion.

If you break us apart from tissue and bones, then to molecules and compounds and then to ions and atoms -- ( no idea where I was goin' with, i'll come back to this later on and finish my thought)

Maybe...we are in control of our atoms...i mean were made from them...
Err...umm...I dont know

reality is your construct, it is an illusion.

this is an intesting article and holds potential.

So do you think we could change the world around us? if so what about time...the thing that was around for oh i dont know....10 million years

If everyone believed it would it change the world around us?


I actually do understand the inconsitency theorm... that is why I said what I did, because regardless what I say it is confined to languange and inherits the inconsistency of language.... and therefore becomes imperfect, which makes us all perfect... until we open out mouths!!!

To h*ll with that. I am here, & you can't change that.

TeraLink Was Here!

to h*ll with your thoughts

Time as we know it is a man made concept, so in effect we can control it....

outside of that, no..

we are at the mercy of the existance we are aware of around us...

I think we humans can do alot of things...but we are following the crowd!
Money...Money can buy everything...food, shelter,comunication,technology...SEX
And how do we earn the money, go to work, ( more work more money) steal or sell our bodys... and billboards are everywhere telling you dress like this , eat this, drink this...and there all high priced products! so we all addicted to money! we need it to get threw a day
Its sad the world today

There wasn't much that I didn't knew that that article said to me, I have discovered lots of things by myself, for example, it is easy to discover things that defy the concept of time, existence of a said object, depth, light dissipation, language, among others, I am not going to post any examples of it since people wouldn't believe or would never understand until they experience the same stuff, also, why should I care for posting that? unlike the one who wrote the article I really don't care that much... or maybe I do a little, I posted because I care a little about others, while at the same time I don't, people are nothing but actors in the false theater of life...
Now, I am kinda tired and yet not of saying this, but, can any one understand what I mean? Can any one actually read the message here? or will it be one more time misinterpretated? My own doom is caused by the fact that I actually care for people... and I bet none of you will be able to understand what I mean with this last phrase, if you do, then you'll not care anyway...

The only sensible part was when he talked about quantum fluctuation, but we spend equal amounts of time in another universe and in ours because atoms DO fluctuate to other universes constantly.

*sigh* Time is not man made in any way. The measurement of time, however, is.

ok so we split hairs over a phrase sooorrrryyyyyyy!

even the word time is man made, so who's right and who's wrong if you want to get pedantic

*sigh* indeed

Time is a man-made theory, as it passes as fast as we let it, although the theory of time has been around forever

As for this "illusion" thing, I finally have proof that the Matrix really does have you

Today is tomorrows yesterday

Ugh, what do i want to add to this discussion...

Why are illusions, illusions themselves? What created this system of illusions? Illusions themselves exist in theory. This systematic "reality" of illusions is a reality itself. So it exists. Why does it exist?

mabe its the way the brain functions...but in the article it said a brain is an illusion
So mabe its all imagination

So imagination is a reality.

Even if he knows what you mean, he'll still be a smart ass about it. I guess we have to get use to it, because I don't see him ever changing.

Ahh! My head is aching! Oh.. don't worry that 'ache' is just an illusion. Is that so?
Well quarks are the smallest particle and we all know that they are not energy, they are solid particles (i think so..). And if they are solid then everything is solid, becoz everything is made up of quarks.
And another thing, that our 'thoughts' are already our imagination because you can't make your thought pop up from your mind into a real solid thing.. they are what we just imagine, we think.
If this theory is true then what about the mechanism of Fundamental interactions?
Strong interaction
Electromagnetic interaction
Weak Interaction
Gravity
I don't think they will fit with 'illusions'.

And what about our earth? It is made up of atoms too, then it is an illusion too. I don't think an illusion can make a gravity of 9.8m/s.....

BTW, This concept was used by CS Lewis too in his novel Chronicles of Narnia (The Last Battle) where the children lived is Shadowlands of Narnia and when they die they come into the real world of Narnia, Aslan tells them that it was illusion, it was the land of shadows.. of Narnia. Every world has its own shadowland and a real world.

Brr... This subject is really dangerous and creepy.. in the past there was a lot of debate about this subject... just remember one thing when you are interested in these kind of "stories".... when all does not exist, then one can murder at will, disregard any moral and ethics.... to go short: it doesn't really matter of we are real or not.. we are here now: so just let us make the best of it!

I don't know if this is right, but I heard a saying that said; "Are we a physical being having a spiritual experience or a spiritual being having a physical experience". The theory that we do not exist is just in the practical thinking of man, technically we do not exist. As I have said before there are too many variables to make such a decision about our existence. Quantum physics are being changed all the time because new discoveries and theories are happening each day. How can we be expected to believe each new theory that comes every day, unless we all understand it.
Finally the point about we should not worry about it, does not explain the suffering and hunger of most of the world countries of today. If this is an illusion then a lot of people are having a bad trip.

The obvious problem with the theory of 'all is illusion' is our own consciousness and ability to create thought process. If it is our 'thought process' that has introduced the theory that our 'thought process' doesn't exist then perhaps it does exist after all.

The fact is, things are seldom as they seem. Much of what we think, if not most is indeed illusion. He overlooks one point though....if the building blocks of the universe don't exist...then nothing exists...one cannot get beyond the fact that the essentials do exist, quarks, etc. do exist...while they may not be completely stable...they themselves are not illusion....if they are, then where does that illusion originate?

What is between illusion, and the imagination that does exist- that is illusory only when it is accepted as imagination itself? It is the origination of all illusion that is not compatible with the imaginative state, where if it is imagination that creates an illusion equal to the original, where did that grand illusion come from? In other words, how does one learn to acknowledge that if everything that is the universe, including the absolute "nothing" that is inexplicably included (whether anyone likes it or not), has a something in between to be even considered illusory?

It takes, the imaginative state to even get to the point that anything is illusory. That is my point - (being an artist I figure I would say so), but if there is one GRAND ILLUSION, there is one GRAND IMAGINATION behind it - there has to be.

Because if anything, just because it is illusory, being that you don't see (experience) the reality, you don't know everything about what is happening in perceptiveness. Why is it illusion then?

Maybe I was rewording something, I wasn't sure, but if I wasn't, I hope this is at least a bit enlightening.... ( I understand this to be a kind of re-cap of what Joc ^ was saying though - thanks Joc )...

If this is an illusion we have the ability to change anything we want because we'd be illusions and everything else would be an illusion as well.

Where there is nothing there is Light

time is an illusion. lunchtime doubly so-douglas adams

I agree with that statment but not all 100 percent I mean sometimes I wonder if i don't exist and I'm only 14 my friend asked me one day just out of nowhere "do you think we exist?" and if more then one person thinks that then who knows what could be true and false.

You think therefore you exist.
Science when it does not have absolute answers is as prone to bouts of magical thinking as some of their ancestors the alchemists were.
Do not get caught up in it. Stay level headed and work with reality from everyday life. Learn how educational and governmental systems work. This will help you a lot more than magical thinking practice to alter the realities you are living in.

So what is the opposite of Light? Something?
Or Everything?
Or the absolute most lacking of all things, people, places, ideas, that are/is nothing that is the DARKEST.
Where would you call it Dark?
& why did you say where anyway?
I thought there was more to where than meets the eye.

The measurement of time was something invented by man so they could schedule meetings and not be late for work... right?
Since time is based on the rotation of the planet, that would mean that other planets have different hours in the day. Wow.. I'd never be on time.
But then again... it's all an illusion.. ha ha.
Curse our finite minds.. *sigh*

Where there is something, there is also light.
ah.. the confusion continues... hehe

This article is patheticly flawwed and just plain illogical. If this were all an illusion, what is causing the illusion? What created the illusion? God? Is god an illusion too? I don't know about you guys, but even trying to comprehend that is too much for the average brain.

Now that I think about it, if what we individually see is an illusion, then wouldn't we (humans, animals, everything) be telepathicly connected to know what we look like? While reading a book, everyone projects a different world when they read a description. If this theory were true, and I were to look at one of my friends, What I see would be completely different from what they see in the mirror, unless their body has decodable descriptions written all over it. Oh wait, it's an illusion!

Umm If this is an illusion how do you think we can change it?
mabe focusing really hard?
its easy to do it in your mind...just close your eyes and think of anything you want
but how do we make it become reality? hmm...

I pretty much agree that it's a stupid theory. I would like to point out that it seems to be poor plaigarism off of various Eastern religious concepts, especially (maybe even only) Zen Buddhism. Maybe it'd be more accurate to say the Wests version of Zen Buddhism though, not sure.

Well, you didn't exactly answer my question. Where do you think nothing is in actuality, since you think there is Light, but the Dark is not a where - where there is an everything in a "where" no different than a somewhere - something?

What continuum of a confusion?

Real or not I think there's not a single person that can explain how everything started, if we don't exist at all how can we have a mind to start with? I think it's very possible that we're living in an illusion of some kind but "something" has to exist outside of this.. I think it's all a matter of understanding and I think scientists are missing a point, and the point is the things we can't see or measure, the spiritual world I think.

The original 'everything is an illusion' article is flawed in a number of ways.
First of all, if everything is an illusion then the the article (theory?) is also an illusion and using the words of the author - 'we shouldn't worry about it', LOL.

Secondly, the flippant use of scientific findings without knowing the true context is a very fatal flaw of any theory. The most obvious is stating that 'virtual' particles wink out of existence yada, yada...and they go into other dimensions or universes or realities, is speculation at best. To prove any such happening is a paradox! What should be noted though is, as much as science tries to get at the truth there are things/phenomena that science does not understand YET.

Thirdly, to base an article around 'reality' and 'illusion' it is a MUST that these terms be defined beyond a shadow of a doubt. What exactly is meant by 'reality' and what exactly is meant by 'illusion', hmmm.
...by this everything IS reality. Even if an illusion actually exists - it is reality! If everyone in the world is able to touch you to sense your solidity and you notice that when you run into a solid object there is resistance, is this not objective actual existence? I think the definitions must be more definitive so as to avoid misinterpretations. ie. anything is real that can be measured to have either spatial extents, energy or time between events.

Having said all that, I can see where this 'illusion' obsession derrives from. Partly from Quantum Physics of course but also due to our inability to pinpoint the process for something becoming solid. Higgs boson and higgs field are theorised to account for this but no confirmation yet.

Cheers
Guardian

^^O RLY?

Haha, just kidding I went on chat today with my friends and told them about this...

The result? I freaked everyone out so much that one of the mods had to kick me out because according to them I "should just keep being the stupid one"

I concur.

exactly!! U took the words right out of my mouth.

Some people know within themselfs that they can not handle the truth.....so they simply hide themselfs from the truth, well at least thats one way to look at it.

Here's the thing...Illusion is something itself. There is no such thing as absolute nothingness. The air between your molecules, no matter how significantly nano, is something. Illusion is an existance itself. And for illusion to exist, there must be something there to recieve it. It's like the question, "does art have to have an audience to be art?". Well in another context, illusion HAS to have an audience to be an illusion.

It is right that, time does not exist. Time was just a human invention to organize everything. All it is is the rotation and revolution of the earth and universe. Aging is simply our cells dying and reproducing. Keep in mind that there are planets with multiple suns lighting them out there, so they may actually not get day and night at all. Time only belongs to earth (if you wish to believe that life does not exist outside this planet. But I do, so I believe that they have their OWN concept of time).

On another note...I used to believe that perfection did not exist...but looking at the breakdown of atoms to ions to other particles...I realize now that structurly, we are perfect. Because without quarks, bosons would not exist, and therefor ions would not exist, therefor atoms would not exist, there for matter would not exist. As it says, these units go down a long way. Sure our state of minds may not be anywhere near right, and we age to die, but as we live...the way our bodies function together in symmetry to keep us alive...it goes to show that the structure of matter itself is perfect (if I am making sense. I know what I mean in my own mind ^^; )

(ahem)... maybe nothing isn't something...maybe nothing is really nothing. Perhaps we just can't wrap our human minds around this.
We think "but oh there's always gotta be something, right?" But where is a thought before it becomes a thought, if the universe is expanding, into what is it expanding?

We tend to think everything has a beginning and an end, that things cannot exist without some kind of opposite, that there is always an answer.. but maybe, just maybe the only answer is that that's just the way things are.

I think this whole nonsense of extending the rules of the Quantum World to the REAL MACRO world began with the publishing of the book called "Quantum Healing" by none other than Deepak Chopra. He was richly and rightly awarded the IGNOBLE PRIZE for it !!!

The Quantum world is ruled ONLY probablities and probablity density functions and many such uncertainities. Not the real world. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, if were to be true in the REAL world, then we couldn't have so precisely placed the International Space Station or the Hubble Telescope or even flown those jet planes, because at any time we could never be sure of both the momentum and the position of the above.

The rules of the Quantum world don't apply to the REAL world and vice versa...

:-)

Sharath

We should all just go to South America and drink some Ayahuasca. Then we'll really see what something from nothing or nothing from something or whatever it is really is

I understand what you're saying although I don't totally agree with the paradigm presented. When you say you don't exist essentially you mean in a personal sense as body, separate mind, brain, etc. That's not very difficult to grasp. Trying to prove you wrong by saying that if you hit someone in the face they'll see how real it is doesn't verify anything. There are billions of agreements one has made concerning solidity. Yes the fist hits the face and the face seems to feel and impact and so does the fist. However, what animates the body to cause this action? Is it the brain? Then what causes the brain to cause this action? The ears are designed to hear but what is aware of hearing? The eyes are designed to see but what is aware of seeing? The nose is designed to smell but what is aware of smelling? Things, forms, objects, patterns, etc, arise and recede over the course of an apparent time continuum that is primarily based upon agreement itself. Along this continuum there is that which is aware and fundamentally changeless.

You're attempting to apply finite concepts to what is inherently infinite. There's a huge difference between knowing about and knowing. Someone can read a thousand books and know all about some thing but at the end of the day all they know is about other peoples interpretations on things and in addition they have now arrived at a point where they can evolve yet another interpretation. Words being labels that are used to name things within universes don't meet the occasion when one is attempting to discuss that which is essentially nameless, changeless, formless, boundless and dimensionless. It makes no sense to attack him based upon one article. Even from a physical perspective as a human being a person simply cannot understand what they have no yet realized.

What is real it permanent, actual and not apparent. Words like truth, love, spirit, pure awareness can be used in a descriptive sense but that which is nameless cannot be defined within a human context. Spirit is nothing or a no-thing but that's from an inverted view a human view. So-called people are not looking at the game from the same viewpoint and location they were in when they seemingly entered the game. Spirit may very well be neither a nothing nor a something and at the same time that which conceives and perceives all things.

The part where you mention that living as a fictional identity in an illusion is better than nothing at all or total idleness makes sense, except that it's not an illusion it's more of a delusion. In other words it started as an illusion and then one proceeded to disown the illusion and said somebody else must have done it. Few people like the idea that all entrapment is preceded by choice. Human sense seeks to avoid truth at every turn and all one needs to do is look around to see how they feel about responsibility. If entrapment is preceded by choice then you are responsible for the mess you're apparently in and you're responsible for getting out. That's a tough one for most people to accept at any level. Ultimately the apparent bondage where one seems to be enveloped in matter is unreal and non-existent, as it's impossible to separate from ones own essence. One doesn't have a life so can never lose a life. One is life and all else is fiction. The infinity of ideas conceived and perceived by spirit have no substance within them as all spirit belongs to spirit only. Spirit is ALL and you are spirit. Not even nothing exist outside of spirit as there is no outside to ALL. This doesn't mean we are all the same or we are all one (a paradoxical statement that is insane). The number one cannot be discussed within the context of what is essentially dimensionless and this is actual reality. The physical world is a world of relative realities and relative truths and things tend to change quite often depending upon time, place and conditions. One day scientist come out and say this is the way it IS and a few years later they say sorry we found something else. This is the nature of what is essentially not real to begin with. It's inherently unreliable. The is the underlying anxiousness that upon close observation can be recognized in the vast majority of people. They think or believe they are things and they see things come and go and so they feel this will happen to them. This creates uncertainty, insecurity and fear. Welcome to humanity. This simply can't be grasped by the fictional human mind because it would be the end of it. The best I can do is say that I am prior to I AM and cause over myself, you, everyone, everything and everywhere and so are you. Human sense will reject all of the above because truth precludes the existence of humanity and a world of duality. It's the end of the game of separation, elevation, I, me, mine, those people, them, etc.
Note the world is real, universes are real and actual. They're just not the way humans think or believe they are. Spirit being all is changeless and ideas conceived by spirit are changeless and perfect. From a spiritual perspective and that's the only real perspective there is only now. Once you begin to deal with the fictional story of time you're already lost in a fictional story that can only look to other fiction for verification. You can expect human sense to reject all of this and to be offended and upset. This is not religious dogma, a new belief system or any new kind of New Age thought system. This is the nature of actual reality. One doesn't talk about truth or think about truth. One simply beholds truth and all the rest that apparently existed is revealed to have never existed. The realization of truth is ultimately transparent because truth, spirit or whatever word you choose to use to mean all-inclusive absolute pure awareness knows nothing other than its own essence. In other words, truth being all knows of truth only. Reject the above, be offended by it truth cares not as it really didn't happen and your own rejection leaves you living as a fictional character in a fictional story. Truth is truth and knows nothing of fiction. When I say fiction I mean non-existent. Never happened means never happened at any level anywhere.

Ya, it's call responsibility.

Weird. I've been in this trap of thinking at this level for the past few weeks. Combination of architectural theory, media studies, art, history, understanding of science and technology, basically seeing patterns in existence then coming down to these fundamental problems with the resulting gaps, trying to get my own correct balance of gray so I can just go ahead and live my life already. Problem is, I have an epic life goal, and it's hard to think about objects next to me in the book we're all in together.

I've been stumbling through this with the uncanny and unconscious coincident guiding me. Typing in phrases that come out as eloquent to me, "don't worry about it" has been the dominant philosophy with me for a while now-- but it's hard not to, because, yes, responsibility seeps in and all of a sudden the adult "real" world is telling you to grow up from ideas and just "do" already.

Hahah, like-minds. We're all making it, we're all realizing it. What if the actors addressed the audience as people? Better yet, address them as fellow actors.

pheight remarked,

"...The nose is designed to smell but what is aware of smelling? Things, forms, objects, patterns, etc, arise and recede over the course of an apparent time continuum that is primarily based upon agreement itself. Along this continuum there is that which is aware and fundamentally changeless."

Now the last statement,

"along this continuum there is that which is aware and fundamentally changeless"

Is it a conclusion based on the previous observations ? Why should there be any permanency underlying all impermanent things ? Is it to console ourselves that "something of us" survives after our death ? Or there is always "something of us" more permanent existing eternally inspite of the superficial impermanency that we feel and experience ?

Is there any evidence to prove this ? Is it just an hypothesis or a conjecture - a fanciful thinking ?

Can't all the things we experience happen without any underlying permanency (fundamentally changeless ) ???????????

:-)
Sharath Chandra S

Two questions:

1. If everything is an illusion, isn`t the illusion an illusion that to ?

2. If everything is an illusion, then everything doesn`t exist, so then there is no that... that... OK I`m lost !...

I sense your desire to know and understand and I acknowledge your efforts. I can tell you that the answers you seek will not come from another. They will not come through thinking and figuring or any other form of mental gymnastics.

The apparent experience of life is a game. There are those who design the games and make the rules but don't have to live by them. There are those who know it's a game and know the rules and play to the best of their ability. There are those who know it's a game but don't know the rules. There are those that are more or less pieces in the game and they have a sense that it's a game but have no grasp of the rules or the game itself. And lastly there are those who are the broken pieces who have no sense that it's a game and no idea what the rules are. This would be the vast majority of humanity.

Truth is rather unpopular in this universe we know as the physical universe being that it causes games to vanish by revealing the fragility and ultimately the non-existence of duality. People who are spiritual beings get somewhat attached to the various positive and negative poles that exist in a dualistic universe. The wins and loses, ups and downs, joys and sorrows, pleasures and pains add to a myriad of spices that make up the very structure of this game we have come to know as life.

All that persist is essentially a lie at various harmonics because some lies have been altered to further degrees. These manifestations can be observed within the context of the game. The game is not about the wins and loses but it's all about staying in the game and it's primarily about playing. I use the word lie but not in a negative sense. It's simply the word that fits the paradigm. In any game you need opponents. In the absence of opposition there is no game and this is the essence of truth. Truth has no opposition for it is truth beyond the word truth. We can't really even discuss truth without altering truth and thus we're no longer discussing truth. A very tricky scenario. It's more important to acknowledge truth and know that you are truth. In essence you are that which you are seeking.

In regards to your post. Pure cause needs no prior experience in order to declare I or I AM. Permanency doesn't really underly anything it's simply real because it is permanent, eternal, changeless, timeless, formless and dimensionless. The way in which dimension comes into play is a bit more complex especially when one is attempting to look from the position they assume they're in within the physical universe. This is an inverted view and thus it's very easy to trick oneself.

I am not consoled by knowing that I am immortal and saying something survives after death is based in an assumption that there is a beginning to life and that life actually dies. There is not something of us that exist eternally, as you are neither a something or a nothing. What is eternal when in actual reality there is only now. What you experience with your human senses can't be trusted as they are designed to accept the illusion of solidity. Even within the context of the fictional story we have seen that our best physicists and scientists have already proven that matter is fundamentally empty space. So we already know that the apparent solidity of matter is not actual but apparent. We can understand this even from a perspective within the context of the delusion. It's not that all is really an illusion it's really a delusion. It perhaps starts out as an illusion from ones perspective and then evolves into a delusion when one feel overwhelmed by the illusions. Sensing overwhelm one seeks to disown having anything to do with creating the illusions and thus it is decided that the only option is that someone else did it. This is delusion of a very high magnitude. Not to worry as this is really not real and there's always the potential to awaken and realize you never were un-awakened.


I would suggest investigating the entire concept of time, as this is the fundamental lie. Just look into time and how it operates and how we agree on it and how we allow things to keep time for us. Looking and direct observation are always preferred to thinking and figuring. Just look at time and what it's based on and how we've empowered a mere concept to the point where it runs on its own continuum, If you get a handle on time, if you acquire enough discriminating knowledge regarding time and if you attain understanding then a self-generated certainty will be yours. All knowledge in the world of form is invented but knowing is beyond words, concepts, ideas and data. Keep looking and you will have a realization of that which you desire. It will not be like knowing about things and realizations about things within the world of form. It will come as a transparent realization where you will just know with no reliance on data, facts, figures and so-called physical evidence. After all what physical evidence is there when it has already been proven that the nature of physicality is non-physical?

Good luck!
pheight

You speak like God. What makes you so cocksure to declare that the answers I seek will not happen in the ways you mention? Can your ever fathom the complete scale and spectrum of a man's thinking, imagination and feeling ?
Buddha, the first original thinker of mankind, who lived 2500 years ago, just did that by meditative thinking.



Somebody knowing the rules of the game ????????? Strange and highly surprising. The number of stars in the galaxy is much more than the grains of sand on all the beaches on the oceans and seas of this planet earth.With such a trivial existance of man, has anyone ever defined in clear terms what the rules of the game are

1. What is the purpose of life, not just man, but any life in general ?
2. Tell me what is the purpose of man on this earth, rather, what is the goal of humanity ?
3. Does each individual matter ? If so, how ? How are we inter-related in the grand design, if there is one ?
4. Do the terms Good and Bad have absolute, unambiguous clear definitions valid for all times ? I am stressing on Good and Bad, because all of our society and its values are based on this.So do all the religions.
5. Do you invoke God as the creator of these rules? Or, did they happen just like that, right from the BigBang ?

Don't you think it is pointless and useless to have a system going, where some players know the rules of the game, some don't, while some know it is a game and some don't even know it is a game !! What great goal is achieved in playing such a game ???? To cap it, you also declare that it is not possible to know it by any amount of thinking or mental gymnastics or by anyone else !!!! What a hopeless situation



Nobody knows what the real nature of THE WHOLE TRUTH is, to be declared it as unpopular.
Nothing ever vanishes. It does so, only when YOU SLEEP or when YOU DIE or maybe when you GO MAD or DEPRESSED. Duality exists as long as the Univerese exists. It was born with the Universe and dies with the Universe. Duality is an inseparable part of the Universe.



As long as positive charged Protons and negative charged Electrons exist, so long does Duality exists No need to hype so much about it and seek/long for a Non-Dual universe.



Actually it is not lie, but they are Ephemeral or Transient. Just because events and experiences don't exist for long, it doesn't mean it is a lie. On the same lines one can then argue and show that "the present moment" is also a lie. But it is not !



Well, now you are contradicting yourself. Having declared that a vast majority of the humanity have no sense that it is a game and no idea what the rules are, how can these "vast majority" stay in the game and play ???

To what end should we play the game, especailly, when the goals are not realizable in any one individual's life time.



Why would Truth get altered if we discuss it, dissect it and probe it ??? Can you give an example. On the oher hand it just gets more interesting and complicated as we probe Truths deeper and deeper

If I am the Truth then going by your earlier argument I am also a Lie, because as you have declared "all that persists is essentially a lie at various harmonics"

There are Truths beyond what one is seeking. Truth doesn't cease to exist if one turns a blind eye on them. Truth is not a function of Seeker. IT JUST EXISTS whether there are seekers are not.

Bye for now. Rest later...

S.Sharath Chandra
sharath_chandra@fastmail.fm

For illusion to exist, there has to be evidence proving it to be illusion. If the evidence is the illusion, the illusion is the evidence and thus there is no illusion. What we see objectively is what exists for us, and if we base the fact that "all is illusion" on what we sense, then we are accepting what is around us to be of some relevence- some form of existance. If you accept that everything is illusion, you accept evidence and thus nothing is illusion.

Theory kinda reminds me of gnosticism.
But even if this reality is a shadow an illusion. There has to be a scource or a real for there to be a copy or a fake.

But anyways if I am an illusion then the illusion is my reality.

None. There is no general goal or purpose. Every living being tries to define and justify its purpose of existence in its own way.


Each individual does not matter, in fact nothing does matter. Every living being voluntarily or involuntarily tries to make everything matter to them in some way or the other to make sense to themselves because it gives them a sense of "belonging and worth." And...there is no grand design.


Good and Bad are not absolute, only relative. There is no universal defenition of good or bad. What may be good to you may be bad to somebody else and vice versa. Society, religion & values keep changing all the time. What a majority of the world thinks to be right at a moment in time is generally accepted as "right" at that time.


There are no universal rules, we only make rules for ourselves, so that we can define boundaries and work safely within them. Rules give us involvement and a sense of purpose. Rules give a sense of direction and prevent people from going mad thinking of the infinite possibilities. Rules need not make sense to everybody but they do work.


There is no point.

You know how many times I try to tell satanics this. Im glad someone other than me realizes this.

See Pheight we already have one set of rules rolling and that is, there are no rules whatsoever. The whole world and the life in it doesn't matter much.No grand design. No universal rules at all And you say there are rules which some are aware of

Who knows if we wait a little longer, maybe someone will come out with another set of rules and then the real game starts, "WHICH RULES ARE CORRECT?"

Will reply to the rest of your mail shortly,
S.Sharath Chandra

The little "shadowy" things that wink in and out of existence was the cause of a great debate in school. When they "wink out" where do they go? It's not easy to say that they cease to exist. . .the idea that they are blinking in and out of this dimension was more widely excepted. quantum fluctuation is the source of much debate. I was just reading about it in one of my Astral projection books, weirdly enough. . .Anyways, I, myself, find it pretty easy to accept. . .but the way the writer of this article puts everything makes it sound so silly. The same thing with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. . .it's pretty easy to understand, but the writer makes it seem really far out there. . . The Heisenberg theory wasn't made to say that we don't exist in the way that the writer is trying to suggest, it means "the physical universe does not exist in a deterministic form—but rather as a collection of probabilities, or potentials. For example, the pattern (probability distribution) produced by millions of photons passing through a diffraction slit can be calculated using quantum mechanics, but the exact path of each photon cannot be predicted by any known method." (I got that from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle it explains it SO much easier than I can) Which this can be interpreted in many different ways. . .But it's rather simple and unshocking from my point of view. . .it allows for the possibility of free-will and the fact that fate is not pre-determined. Einsten disagreed with this theory and had one of his own called "local realism". John Bell also came up with a theory that is a sort of a compromise between both of these theories, and it's called the Bell inequality.

The thing that most people fail to understand is that most of these are theories. Until proven they may or may not be true.

That is a theory that doesn't have factual reasoning to back it up. Its just a fabricated idea conjured up by someone who had one cheeto too many for lunch!

cheetos are cheetos ok

I read "Life is all an illusion" type stories and I imagine someone walking right up to the author and punching them in the nose. "Feel that!?"

On the third marble up Sun street is a halodeck where spirits go to school they enter to learn the necessary lessons of charater developement. It is the more advanced student who can conceptualize more than the grade schooler. All really is not as it seems, "Life" as we call it is nothing more than a "dream" like existance ... when will you start to "direct" your dream?

Enjoyed the read, thank you. To all the other posters, stop and truely think about this ..... could it not be possible?

two pits

Well to be more precise in the above referenced link, are two important points made :

".. Therefore, the product of the uncertainties only becomes significant for regimes where the uncertainty in position or momentum measurements is small. Thus, the uncertainty principle governs the observable nature of atoms and subatomic particles while its effect on measurements in the macroscopic world is negligible and can be usually ignored. "

Before jumping off to quote Heisenberg one should all always bear in mind that it applies only to quantum particles which exhibit both wave and particle like behavior. But not so are the objects of the macro world we live in.

As it has been rightly pointed out there,

".. the uncertainty principle is taken to mean that on an elementary level, the physical universe does not exist in a deterministic form?but rather as a collection of probabilities, or potentials. For example, the pattern (probability distribution) produced by millions of photons passing through a diffraction slit can be calculated using quantum mechanics, but the exact path of each photon cannot be predicted by any known method. The Copenhagen interpretation holds that it cannot be predicted by any method, not even with theoretically infinitely precise measurements...."

In the real world our eyes aren't sensitive enough to see a single photon leave alone measuring it. Also we don't deal with individual electrons...forget about Quantum Healing

Inshort, the Quantum world and the macro world are governed by two different sets of rules..

Bye for now,
S.Sharath Chandra

AH...AHA.. You are now playing with words instead of dwelling on ideas and understanding of concepts.Remember you said,

To me it appeared like the 11 th Commandment of God Hence, I invoked God.


Simply because we don't quote much from anything or anyone earlier than Buddha.And his way of "seeing and understanding things" are still valid today.Check my next post.


Let me play your word game What is the definition of SELF and what does ENLIGHTENMENT means to you? Are you attached to or you have a predeterminded idea of what Enlightenment means to you ?When you say Enlightenment, which concept of Enlightenment you are speaking of ?



Another play of words, going off tangentially from the topic of discussion, evasive tactics
Let's get back to the corresponding original posting where you remarked, rather proclaimed:

"The apparent experience of life is a game. There are those who design the games and make the rules but don't have to live by them. There are those who know it's a game and know the rules and play to the best of their ability. There are those who know it's a game but don't know the rules. There are those that are more or less pieces in the game and they have a sense that it's a game but have no grasp of the rules or the game itself. And lastly there are those who are the broken pieces who have no sense that it's a game and no idea what the rules are. This would be the vast majority of humanity."

1. How are you defining "the game" ? Explain clearly what are "the rules" of the game? How many rules are there, one or many ? What happens if the rules are broken, knowingly and/or unknowingly? What makes you assume "the apparent experience" of life is a game?What is "apparent experience"? If there is an "apparent experience" then there must also be a "real experience". What is "real experience" then?
2. Who are those who design these games ? Are they related you ? On whose authority did they design the games and frame the rules ?
3. Why do "those" who design the games and make the rules don't have to live by them ?What makes them so extraordinary or exceptional so they don't have to live by them?
4. Why some know it's a game, some don't? Why some know the rules, some don't ? Why didn't "they" who designed the games and framed the rules ensure that everyone was made aware of the games and the rules, before the game began, assuming it is already begun ?
5. You also said that "The game is not about the wins and loses but it's all about staying in the game and it's primarily about playing" Playing what ? With whom ? For what purpose ? Why should I play a game designed by someone, without my consent ?
6. Who declared unto you that the vast majority of the humanity have no sense it's a game
and no idea what the rules are ? Are you in effect saying that you know everything ?
7. You say, "In any case if you say you matter then you do. If you say you don't then you don't." Then why should one stay in the game and play, if all that ultimately matters is what I say or I don't say?



When the vast majority doesn't even know it is a game and are not even aware of the rules where does "sense of play" come ?

I thought a game must have a goal. Usually the games we play, if you have played one you would have appreciated the fact, end with some goal or victory. So you mean to say there is no goal or point in "your game", no rewards nothing ? Where does this game lead to in the end, assuming there is an end? Or is it played generations after generations without any end or goal ?

If a simple word like "great" can mean different things to different people how would you expect all humanity to play one game with "a sense of play" , with no goals, no well defined rules, designed by "those" ?

(Incidentally, my usage of the word "great" was just to distinguish from the goals of the mudane games we usually play around in the fields.By the way have you ever played any games?)


What a wonderful deduction
It was actually a remark to counter your wonderful first hand observation,
"Truth is rather unpopular in this universe we know as the physical universe being...."
You are speaking as if you have mastered all there is to know, to declare to the world that
"Truth is unpopular in this universe"
Having then travelled the nook and the corner of this universe to declare about the unpopularity of the Truth, by the way, how many parallel universes have you visited so far ? especially the ones where there was no duality. How could you manage to come back from such a dulity-less world to this world ?


Yes, exactly like the concepts and labels which distinguish between "pheight" and "S.SHARATH CHANDRA".

Tell me "to what", you ascribe "concepts" and "labels" and I will then tell you what "exists" means.


Perhaps everything existed always.Perhaps what you say all above is wrong. Perhaps the opposite of what you say above is right.


Oh, now we also have manipulators in "the game"! This game is getting more and more interesting.
Not knowing to play the game is yet another way to play the game !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Terrific. Man I am stumped.From which dimension of which parallel universe did you get these ideas.Can I borrow your time machine for a minute or you do astral travel.








The next time when somebody asks my Identity card, I tell them that all it contains is a big lie:)



WHAT IS TRUTH ? DEFINE NOW ? WHAT'S ABSENT MEAN? ABSENT FROM WHERE? WHAT DOES "NOW IS ABSENT" MEAN? "NOW IS ABSENT" to WHOM ? CAN "NOW BE ABSENT" TO ALL AT THE SAME TIME? IF NOT WHY ? WHAT IF "NOW IS ABSENT" TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT TIMES? THEN, WILL THERE CORRESPONDING TRUTHS ALSO BE DIFFERENT?IF THERE CAN BE AN ABSENCE, THERE MUST ALREADY BE A PRESENCE, SO WHAT DOES "NOW IS PRESENT" MEAN?LIKEWISE, WHAT IS FICTIONAL HAPPENING MEAN?


Well do YOU consider all this was serious ?

Rest now ...... The game has hardly begun

S.Sharath Chandra

No one ever said that the position from where I view from would conform to yours but that's okay. I'm not interested in making this a personalized debate. In terms of communication we use words in order to convey a message and very often that message gets lost in translation or misinterpreted.

In regards to a game it's quite easy to look at the process of living and put it into the framework of a game. Of course a person (including myself) can't comprehend what they have not yet realized but in terms of games and the way we have defined and agreed upon the word we can see games everywhere. Games are composed of goals, purposes and barriers. Who is the authority? For you that would be you. Perhaps you're not playing a game without your consent. Perhaps you consented. In terms of winning and losing that's easy. If you win any game in order to continue playing you must create another game or join an existing one.

I'm not saying I know everything and have never made that statement. Why do you want to make it personal? Would you rather be right or would you rather be free? From a personal perspective I'd say I don't know anything in an absolute sense.

Regarding why should one stay in the game and play, if all that matters is what one says or doesn't say. What you consider determines the game and your experience of the game. I'm not saying you have to play. Don't play, that's your business. There are potentially billions of games within larger games with more expansive purposes. A goal could be to forget that you're in a game. A purpose could be to play well, have fun and integrity. The point is if you know everything there is no game. If you know what's it's going to be like when you get there it's not nearly as much fun to go, as you already possess what you were seeking to find when you get there. Just an example but it's essential to any game to not know everything. If you play chess with someone and you already know every move they're going to make it's hardly worth it and not nearly as interesting.

From the vantage point of the mind within the context of this physical realm your beliefs end up determining your reality and your experience of reality. For example, many people have discussed their fear of death with me, upon further inquiry they reveal a story about death they have attached to and how they think about death. They believe in this story and this thinking pattern. They always come to realize that they are more afraid of their story about death then death itself.

If it's more important for you to be right then I'm quite okay with that. You are only responding to what I've said based upon what you interpret it to mean to you and whatever meaning you impose into what I've said. So you are essentially having a discussion with yourself. Everything you're reading is going through a filter and that filter is you. I have no problem with anything you've said in any of you're post and if I were to get personal for a moment I would say that I'm completely open to the potential that someone else has seen clearly what I have yet to see for myself.

I consider nothing serious, but that's me. I find this perspective to be helpful because if it was serious it might prompt resistance and if I can't approach something because I take it to be serious then I can't hope to understand it. The way you interpret all that I have written, what it means to you and how you response to it isn't up to me but you. I don't know you and you don't know me. I'm simply a concept to you and that concept is not based upon who or what I am but it is based upon your concept of who you think or believe I am, it is based upon your unique perspective.

I'm speaking for me and not for you. I never suggested you should believe anything I've written here. In fact I would suggest you don't. I would suggest you go take a look for yourself and I trust you're doing that but ultimately that's your business and my suggestions could be meaningless to you and that's perfectly fine.

Can anyone be sure that someone else doesn't know what they're seeking to know? The person who says no one knows is in effect saying they know. I accept and love reality and understanding the nature of reality has been essential to that perspective. Is that the right perspective or should it be yours? I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying I am joyful because I see everything that happens as happening for me and not to me. I simply notice that I suffer less and live with a sense of freedom from judging and evaluating what I think about reality. That's me and that's my perspective. There's no right or wrong to it. I accept that I'm totally responsible for what I see, think and feel and I sense myself beyond words and labels and therefore I sense beyond what I see, think and feel. But to be honest, it's more than a sense for me, it's my acutality. I don't try to grasp it or understand it mentally. I observe the thinker that is pretending to be me and through doing so I find I take my thinking a lot less seriously. This is my perspective.

It just works for me and never would I say this is the way it is for you or anyone else.


Good luck!

As promised let me first venerate Buddha as to why Buddha is the first original thinker of mankind before I answer your diatribe.

The Kalama people lived in Kesaputtanigama, India, a village, during the time of Buddha, a place through which many religious teachers passed. Each of these teachers taught that his personal doctrine was the only truth, and that all others before and after him were wrong. The Kalamas could not decide which doctrine they should accept and follow. The Buddha once came to their village and the Kalamas brought up this problem with him: that they did not know which teacher to believe. So the Buddha taught them what is now known as the Kalama Sutta.
The Buddha taught them, and us, not to accept or believe anything immediately. He gave ten basic conditions to beware of in order to avoid becoming the intellectual slave of anyone, even of the Buddha himself. This principle enables us to know how to choose the teachings which are truly capable of quenching suffering (dukkha). The ten examples which the Buddha gave in the Kalama Sutta follow.


1. Ma anussavena : do not accept and believe just because something has been passed along and retold through the years. Such credulity is a characteristic of brainless people, or "sawdust brains"

2. Ma paramparaya : do not believe just because some practice has become traditional.

3. Ma itikiraya : do not accept and believe merely because of the reports and news spreading far and wide.

4. Ma pitakasampadanena : do not accept and believe just because something is cited in a pitaka. The word "pitaka, " which is used for the Buddhist scriptures, means anything written or inscribed upon any suitable writing material. Memorized teachings which are passed on orally should not be confused with pitaka. Pitakas are a certain kind of conditioned thing which are under humanity's control. They can be created, improved, and changed by human hands. So we cannot trust every letter and word in them. We need to use our powers of discrimination to see how those words can be applied to the quenching of suffering.

5. Ma takkahetu : do not believe just because something fits with the reasoning of logic (takka). This is merely one branch of study used to try to figure out the truth. Takka, what we call "logics," can go wrong if its data or its methods are incorrect.

6. Ma nayahetu : do not believe just because something is correct on the grounds of naya (deductive and inductive reasoning) alone. These days, naya is called "philosophy."

7. Ma akaraparivitakkena : do not believe or accept just because something appeals to one's common sense, which is merely snap judgements based on one's tendencies of thought. We like using this approach so much that it becomes habitual. Boastful philosophers like to use this method a great deal and consider it to be clever.

8. Ma ditthinijjhanakkhantiya : do not believe just because something stands up to or agrees with one's preconceived opinions and theories. Personal views can be wrong. or our methods of experiment and verification might be incorrect, and then will not lead to the truth.

9. Ma bhabbarupataya : do not believe just because the speaker appears believable. Outside appearances and the actual knowledge inside a person can never be identical.

10. Ma samano no garu ti : do not believe just because the samana or preacher, the speaker, is "our teacher." The Buddha's purpose regarding this important point is that no one should be the intellectual slave of someone else, not even of the Buddha himself. The Buddha emphasized this point often, and there were disciples, such as the venerable Sariputta, who confirmed this practice. They did not believe the Buddha's words immediately upon hearing them, but believed only after adequately considering the advice and putting it to the test of practice. See for yourselves whether there is any other religious teacher in the world who has given this highest freedom to his disciples and audiences! Thus in Buddhism there is no dogmatic system, there is no pressure to believe without the right to examine and decide for oneself. This is the greatest special quality of Buddhism which keeps its practitioners from being the intellectual slaves of anyone, as explained above.


Remember Buddha, The Light of Asia, said it 2500 years ago, which is valid till today

S.Sharath Chandra

If you feel my post was a diatribe that is totally within the framework and scope of your own interpretation, thinking and belief. Read it again and you'll find it to be quite civil as I never suggested to believe or blindly accept anything I've ever posted.


The oldest known written history of workable knowledge on this planet dates back to prehistoric times. This was contained in the Vedic hymns. The next great philosophic advance within our written history was accomplished by Gautamna Sakyamuni and this work was part of a religion known as the Dharma. The Dharma, existing for some time before the advent of Gautama is a religion preached by individuals known as Buddhas. A Buddha is simply one who has attained Bodhi. A Bodhi is one who has attained an ideal state of intellectual and ethical perfection by purely physical means. There have been many Buddhas and there are expected to be many more.

In the Western World, if you walk up to a person casually and you say, "Buddha," they'll say, "an idol", which was the furthest thing from Buddha's thoughts - to be an idol. He would have laughed and probably did laugh when he came back and took a look around and saw everybody building temples, burning joss to Buddha. Most if not all religions owe the Buddha a debt of gratitude. The Buddha taught that there is a way to escape the viscous cycle of birth and death and the inevitable suffering that comes with attachments and desires.

The religion of Buddhism, carried by its teachers, brought civilization into the existing barbarisms of India, China, Japan and the Near East - or about two thirds of Earth's population. A great contribution indeed but the original Vedic peoples should never be discounted for the hymns are said to have been passed down for thousands of years prior to the appearance of Gautamna Buddha on the scene. There's so much more beyond escaping the vicious cycle of birth and death and in the Buddha's own words, "strenuousness is the path of immortality, sloth the path of death. Those who are strenuous do not die; those who are slothful are as if dead already."

The road to certainty is a wonderful thing. The fundamental aspect common to most Eastern practices would be the goal of abandonment, desertion. It is through resistance, non-acceptance and the unwillingness to experience what IS that one empowers and solidifies the apparency of what IS. Attempting to escape the apparent cycle of birth and death by eliminating desires and attachment is limiting at best. This is my perspective and I make no suggestion that you adopt what I see.

The way out is the way through. That which one cannot accept chains one. A ruler's motto could be "make them resist", and his people would become enslaved. Metaphorically speaking resistance and restraint are the barbed-wire of this concentration camp. Accept the barbed-wire and there is no camp.

I don't rely on belief, hope or faith and to be clear I don't suggest you believe anything within what I have posted here.

? pheight

ALBERT EINSTEIN:
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.

Like Isaac Asimov's laws of robots, Buddhas tests of Truth should be standardized for Unilateral declarations people make on Truths


If we both think exactly alike, then one of us is unnecessary
Now isn't that exactly what Truth is all about. Are we (you,me and everybody included) bounded by any common Truths? Or not ? If yes, what are they?

The book "Games People Play" by Eric Berne would better explain, what you are confusing at. Well, I am not talking of those games. The bigger question I am pondering is, "Is this whole life a Game (Like in the MATRIX movie) ?" Game bigger than what we have devised ? If yes, who are the designers ? Or was it by accident ? Similar to the question whether Life came on earth by Creation or Evolution. What exactly are the rules of this life game? Like the rules that govern the material world (Newton's Law, Boyles Law,Faraday's Law etc.) are there any rules which govern all of us ? If yes, what are they?

Rest of what you say is pure hogwash There are some who know rules, some don't, some know it's a game, some don't, wins and losses don't matter, play/don't play that's your business but the only thing that matters is playing! , sense of play is all that is .....blah blah blah....

Expansive Purposes !! What a loose phrase. The only thing that can be said with utter confidence is that the Universe is expanding. Where did this "Purpose" come from ? Is it then not the same as the goal I mentioned earlier? Is this "Expansive Purpose", is according to what YOU CONSIDER or what I CAN CONSIDER or what TOM,DICK AND HARRY CAN CONSIDER?

Knowing the game AND knowing the rules IS NOT the same as knowing the results !!
You sure are an expert in twisting issues out of context. What does your statement,
"If you know what's it's going to be like when you get there it's not nearly as much fun to go, as you already possess what you were seeking to find when you get there"

Knowing that Check mating the King ends the game doesn't in any way lessen the pleasures of the game

First you talk of the "experience of reality" and then you give the example of death. Death is not an event that you can live to experience.You can go to the brink of death and come back, but still you are not dead. So whatever you describe of death, can be known only AFTER you die, provided you survive it, after leaving the body Death is but like any of the many fears people harbor for varying reasons.
True, belief system plays an important role only so for as the psychological build up of an individual is considered. But it ends there. If a man were to believe that he is immune to fire and keeps his hands inside a burning flame or he believes that no poison can affect him and drinks Cyanide or believes that dogs are divine and gets bitten by a Rabid one... then the "experience of reality" dawns on him.

I am not trying to find out who is right and who is wrong, but rather WHAT is right and WHAT is not, if there happen to exist such things called right and wrong.

This was the most funniest and hilarious conclusion drawn. The Clay Mathematics Institute of Cambridge, Massachusetts (CMI) has named seven classical Problems where $1 million would be awarded to each problem solved by anyone. Going by your conclusion the Clay Mathematics Institute already knows the answers and they just want to give away $7 million, as it was pinching their pockets.

I declare that nobody knows what the real nature of the Truth is, simply because if known we wouldn't have had this website called, "http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com". If all Truth/s were known, then there is no such thing called Unexplained and certainly no more Mysteries. On the contrary check your own declaration,
" I can tell you that the answers you seek will not come from another. They will not come through thinking and figuring or any other form of mental gymnastics."
Now that means YOU are declaring YOU know EVERYTHING !!! This statement of yours was exactly what prompted me in the first place to respond to your posting.So I applied Buddha's testing to your unilateral declaration, to see what exactly you know.

Well Buddha's test passed

Good Bye and Good Luck to you too,
S.Sharath Chandra

If I were to read it again I surely can find many many more insconsistancies, factual errors and most importantly absurd assumptions based on wishful thinkings. Also refrain from using cliches like, if you want you can accept or not accept/adopt or not adopt/ follow or not follow/believe or not believe of whatever you say. I am at liberty to choose what I want. It would help a lot for the cause of Truth if you restrict to answering my doubts rather than pondering on my choices. Here nobody is forcing anything down anybody's throat !

Check the Wikipedia site, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_Gautama
He is universally recognised by Buddhists as the Supreme Buddha (literally Enlightened One or Awakened One) of our age. He is also commonly known as Shakyamuni or Sakyamuni ("sage of the Shakya clan") and as the Tathagata ("thus-come-one").

There didn't exist any individulas by name of Buddha/s before Gautama. Gautama Sakhyamuni or Buddha was the first Enlightened one. Nor was there any religion known as Dharma before Gautama Buddha WHAT BUDDHA SAID WAS ALL HIS OWN.IT WAS NOT PART OF ANY RELIGION. So much for your accuracy and respect for facts !!

Let's apply Buddhas fourth test mentioned earlier,
Ma pitakasampadanena : do not accept and believe just because something is cited in a pitaka. The word "pitaka" which is used for the Buddhist scriptures. For our test, the scriptures would be Vedas. Only the Rig Veda is considered by scholars to be the oldest. We will restrict to that.

Now the test,

"CAN YOU QUOTE ONE SINGLE MEANINGFUL SENTENCE OR IDEA FROM THE RIG VEDA WHICH DIRECTLY AFFECTS OUR LIVES, SOMETHING AS PROFOUND LIKE THE BUDDHA'S TEACHINGS WHICH TOUCHES EVERYBODY'S LIVES FOR ALL TIMES? JUST ONE SENTENCE PLEASE, JUST ONE.

TO MAKE MATTERS SIMPLE FOR YOU QUOTE AT LEAST ANY FAINT REFERENCE TO CONCEPTS LIKE AHIMSA, KINDNESS, COMPASSION, LIBERATION,NIRVANA, CYCLES OF BIRTH/DEATH, DESIRES AND ATTACHMENTS ? "

Buddha who came thousands of year later than the rote parrot like memorization of hymns of the Rig Vedic people, gave a lasting contribution for as long as the humanity lasts.

Well my attitude is, "Define your limitations then go beyond them"

Don't fret. I am not going to follow you or believe you, even in my wildest dreams


ALBERT EINSTEIN:
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.

ALBERT EINSTEIN:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."

S.Sharath Chandra

Makes sense to me. May not be right but I do think I understand the idea.
We see with our brain... not our eyes. We smell with our brain, not our nose.
Our brain decodes or codes what we call information that is gathered via our so called senses.
If I look at a bird, its my brain that makes it a bird. The information my eyes gathered is actually unknown to my concious thinking. So the original 'information or data' could be anything... an energy matrix for example.
We are all in one big energy matrix that becomes apparent matter to us via our senses and because of our brain.

My illusion: I see a very large, tall glass; hmmm; ice, lovely...pouring in rum add a dab of coke and voila! My illusion is in my BELLY! Jody

I beleive this article brought Plato's "Allegorical Cave" up to date.

Make one for me!