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So I'm giving up.

Posted by White Crane Feather , 29 February 2012 · 368 views

So I'm giving up arguing about spirituality. I have spent times on UM arguing about spirituality more out of entertainment and educating myself, but as of late it's become tedious. I can't seem to get passed the same old rederick. Those stuck in a materialistic world view are unable to think past their nose or see larger pictures. I see the the same exact arguments over and over again and when I finally get them to the point where a new door if thinking can be opened they disappear or start arguing about arguing which I have zero desire to participate in. Oh, certainly my arguments can be fallacious aswell and when it is shown that it is I will admit ( most of the time if it is respectfully done).

Several fallacious points ( not all) for the most part dominate the materialistic mind. I cant seem to break through this wall, and though it was entertaining and educational I am no longer haveing fun, so I'm done.

I will list them not so people can bait me into arguments, but so that I can draw a final conclusion on the dominate materialist viewpoints and where their thought process ends.

1) Those claiming no faith and only belif  or acceptance ( whatever they want to call ) in verifiable scientific evidence only accept evidence if it follows the materialistic axiom.. If evidence, yes repeatable, that is not within thheir world view it is imeadiatly ridiculed and invalidated, and the scientist that presents this experiment is automatically cast into the quack category.  You see most evidence of this in NDE stories where the doctor ( a highly trained scientist) verifies the experiences of the NDEer. Furthermore, the materialist automatically accepts any critique of the methods or scientist with barely any grounds to do so. The honest thing to do is occupy a neutral position of the critique until there is reason to accept or Deni it, but not on the basis of what sounds good. To throw further salt in these wounds there is a claim that dogma, rederic, and red tape does not exist in scientific circles. There seems to be an absolute faith that the peer review system is immune to infiltration of dogmatic and or political influences.  I have read countless story's written by our most celebrated scientists  ( Suskind, Green, even hawking) of their struggles to traverse the dicy world of the scientific community and how difficult it is to overcome the shadows of the the guru like figures that exist. It comes in their own words, yet people hold an idea in their head that the scientific institution is infalable. Certainly it has value. Tremendouse in fact. But let's not throw that value away by deiing the possability of failure which has happened. We know that in all likelyhood our view of the universe will be 90% different in 50-100 years, yet materialists still hold prevelent modern theories as closest to truth.

Im reading back and it sounds as If I am anti science. I am not. I have a great love for science and I feel it is being misrepresented. Eventhough I have visions and speak to angles, you can call me the ultimate skeptic. I am a skeptic of skeptics. I dont trust a dam thing until i verify it for myself. Haveing a somewhat scientific education myself ( economics), I have learned that the prize goes to he/she who argues the best. Not necessarily who is the best. Everything is suspect because of this. The power of rederick is supreme, and is the ultimate hindrance to truth.  The peer review system is built upon how well a scientist can present his arguments and if peers can be convinced of it's validity through math, prediction, and ultimately observance of predictions. The problem of course is that an event can be described in many creative ways. People choose which description they like based on their chosen world view. This leads no room for discovery beyond the axiom of that world view.

3) Things brings me to math. Im no mathematician, I used extensive statistics in college and I used to tutor business calculus, econometrics, and any other course I could get a recomendation for ( good money by the way) in college. ( don't test me, that was a dozen yeArs ago). Scienctists is their  attempts to quantify everything have missed a key component by relying on aproximateing reality as the basis for their understanding. iff you have ever built a deck you will know this effect well. If off by even the slightest amount on each componant the end difference can be HUGE. When scientists are delving into the depths of reality essentially trying to validate thier axiom they aproximate the entire way. The sum of those errors will distort the picture of reality tremendously in the end picture. One plus one is two. But in reality one does not really exist when you evaluate one what. There is no one, there is no 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, or zero. Every number in reality is an approximation to represent an Agragate of other things. Mathmtics can only approximate reality becoming more inaccurate as we look further and further. This is why, on the most fundamental levels of understanding ( particle wave duality, uncertainty, entanglement, the big bang boundary) non of it can be described without pure guessing. Reality is truelly so different that what we might expect, when we finally get there we realize the tools that we used to get there were useful thus far but are  completely incapable and incompetent. Every one of those final places where reality breaks down the discovering scientist probably said "what the ****!" at the end of all questions there lies that statement every time. "what the ****!" This should be the final indication that we know nothing. And from nothing no conclusions can be made about all the something's because evey single thing comes from "what the ****!" yeah I'll say it again "what the ****!" ( actually  I'm recalling some documentary I saw titled that.... Funny)

4) you know what I'm just done. I could write a book about the blind arrogance of humanity. I can arrogently challenge every point and show that arrogance. It's all fruitless. Why? Because non of us will ever let go of our axioms. The ones with the most charisma will win the day with the masses everytime. The reductionists will always reduce, the followers will always follow, the free thinkers will never be pinned, societies will rise and fall, ideas and scientific theory's will come and go, religions will rise and die. Reality just is. That's all we can really say. Remember all scientific understanding ultimately fails at the "what the ****" boundary. Im ok with that. I have other tools that take me a little bit further but even then I'm still left with the same.

I surrender. I give up. I am no longer a seeker. I could be the most aware person on the planet but in the end I'm still a babbling idiot. I watch the wonderful spirits of the inner world  tip toe around my frail ability to understand. They want to help so bad, but it must be hard trying to reveal the truth of the universe to a cockroach. I know the answer is out there, during merger I have known and felt it, but on this level of awareness we can no more understand than an ant can understand calculus. There simplyy is not enough information storage in our brains, or even this universe to contain the truth. It can only be felt or experienced.

I resign arguing with anyone about it. I exist to serve people, my family, and the great spirit. I will continue to blog my journies and exploration, and i will continue go help as many as I can. My new religion is "What the ****!" I have fully graduated fool college, and I will ignore all the  "foolish jackasses".

Seeker 79


let it out of your system

rest & recuperate

only to emerge once more

and tear evil a third corn chute
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This is probably a smart thing for you to do. There are lots of different belief systems out there, and that's ok, even the materialistic ones (as long as they don't hurt anyone). Everyone is at a different place in their spiritual journey, and they will all learn. Probably not in this life, but they will get there. All on their own time. As much wisdom as you have to share, you can't make them see and believe what they are not ready or willing to see. All is well. :)
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It's not going to be easy for some people to begin the process of learning how to think for themselves. Ultimately they're not your responsibility. Kick back, rest, relax and when you can laugh about some of the things you've been confronted with ... you might be ready for some more fun.  :)
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Feb 29 2012 08:57 PM
This is something they have to come on their own terms with. Arguing about it just brings unresolved conflict and senseless bickering. They believe what they believe in and they can not begin to see what you see. In a sense we are all ignorant but I know nothing so I know everything  :blink: So in other words keeping an open mind and looking from different perspectives really is an eye opener! One day we will all know or begin to know the truth. We can never know absolutely everything but the bits and pieces given to us really paint the bigger picture.  :rofl:
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There are those who just are not ready, and nothing anyone else can say will change that.

Trying to discuss, argue or reason with them is like hitting your head against a brick wall... but there will always be those of us who understand you :D
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White Crane Feather
Mar 01 2012 06:35 AM
Wow! Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I guess I was in a bit of a mood. My nine month has had a fever for three days with ear infections, and my wife was traveling for work. Takeing care of a sick child and managing my other boys and running my business all at once stressed me out a bit i think.

I'm still done with arguing. It was fun for a while, but I just want positive things now. I don't mind a little competitive banter once in a while but it has gotton old. It served its purpose. I needed to dive into that for a while to understand those obstacles of thought. This will better prepare me for future events, and relationships.

Thanks all. My wife is back, in better now.
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White Crane Feather
Mar 05 2012 05:38 AM
I thought Mabey it was just a mood thing so kept going..,, nope I'm done. No fun anymore.

I'm just here to help people move forward now. I will not be arguing points anymore? :)
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Sep 03 2012 10:54 PM
Arguing invites in negative energy, psychic burrs.  Just share and those who need to receive the message will.  If someone is a consistent hater, just block them.  Pah, I say.  Pah!
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