Scientist admits to study of Roswell debris!

[skyeagle409]

Don't you think the fact that the effort on making memory metal was started in 1932 (some 15 years before Roswell) and specifically on Nitenol in 1938 (some 9 years before Roswell) is rather ruining the memory metal angle?

Cheers,

Badeskov

Are you implying that someone was spreading memory metal on the Foster ranch in July 1947?

After all, the Roswell witnesses were describing a material in 1947 that mimics the properties of today's memory metal.

[skyeagle409]

SCIENTIST ADMITS TO STUDY OF ROSWELL CRASH DEBRIS!

(Confirmed by FOIA Document) by Anthony Bragalia

A research study that has recently been obtained through FOIA offers stunning confirmation that Wright-Patterson Air Force base contracted Battelle Memorial Institute to analyze material from a crashed UFO at Roswell in 1947. Remarkably, the co-author of this very metals study is the same scientist who decades ago had confessed that he had examined extraterrestrial metal from a crashed UFO while he was a research scientist at Battelle! This just-received document also reveals that another one of its metallurgist authors reported directly to a Battelle scientist who was conducting secret UFO studies for the USAF. It appears that the study represents first-ever attempts in creating highly novel and advanced Titanium alloys. Some of these alloys were later associated with the development of "memory metal" of the type reported as crash debris at Roswell.

http://ufocon.blogsp...of-roswell.html

Another scientist confiming the Roswell debris was from an extraterrestrial craft, which is what I have been hearing down here in Texas from those who were htere.

Edited September 9, 2009 by skyeagle409

[psyche101]

Haut's deathbed confession is a real explanation. And I think these deathbed confession regarding Roswell Incident with dead 4 feet tall alian bodies don't lie.

http://www.hyper.net/ufo/roswell.html

News Jun-2007: Lt. Walter G. Haut was the Roswell base public information officer, who wrote the famous press-release which made world headlines on 8-Jul-1947, which began "The many rumours regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence officer of the 509th Bomb Group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc. [...]". Haut, who lived in Roswell, became one of the most interviewed and public Roswell witnesses and key advocate of a UFO crash. He always said he thought the original press release was the truth and he was convinced "the material recovered was some type of craft from outer space" (ref: his 1993 affidavit). Yet he continued to disclaim personal knowledge of the debris or of the actual craft and recovered bodies.

Haut had left a sealed, notarized affidavit to be opened after his death. In it, Haut testifies that he personally saw the crashed craft at Roswell Base Building 84 a/k/a Hangar P-3. He descibed it as 12-15ft long, not quite as wide, ~6ft high, more of an egg-shape, no windows, portholes, wings -- NOT the classic round flying saucer. He also saw alien bodies (short 4ft) as well as handling the strange debris

And there are other deathbed confessions regarding the Roswell Incident.

The government is efficient enough to hide something like that from the entire world. President Nixon ordered all Majestic 12 documents, as a Majestic 12 member decided to betray the rest of the Majestic 12 group by sending a post (No sender written at the back side) containing a film that show the Majestic 12 documents to a Ufologist.

You're right, humans of this planet still have no clue on FTL travel. No need to hurry on that. It take long time to get to that level to travel through "Wormholes".

Yes, every advance has been a long process. So far so good Neil Armstrong walked on the moon in 1969, but that happened in a such a hurry:

NASA had been working so very hard to be the first man in space, but suddenly something happened on April 1961, Dear Comrade Cosmonaut Yuri Alekseyevich Gagarin became the first man in space on 12 April 1961. The Americans were so frustrated and sad about it was not an American who became the first man in space. NASA workers said >>Damn' Russians!<<. The Americans were very bad loosers, and same year 1961, President John F. Kennedy challenged his own nation and the Soviet Union about having an American on the moon within the end of the 1960'ies as a goal!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin

Yuri Gagarin became a hero of the Soviet Union, and he automatically got a high position in Kremlin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Tereshkova On 16 June 1963, Valentina Vladimirovna Tereshkova became the first woman in space, and she also became a hero of the Soviet Union, and she also automatically got a high position in Kremlin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Leonov On March 18 1965, Alexey Arkhipovich Leonov became the first man in spacewalk, and he also became a hero of the Soviet Union, and he also automatically got a high position ine Kremlin

You are right, all Governments of the Earth will continue to rape the ground until there is no more oil and gas on this planet. So far so good the Governments only talk about alternative energy, only talk, so we can only hope that the Governments will start to use alternative energy soon. The North Pole and South Pole and the Ice Caps are melting faster than ever.

Some people believe in Bogey man But it is too early to say that Roswell Incident is a Myth. When so many aspects points to the direction that the Roswell Incident did take place, then I assume it need further investigation. More and more comes out:

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0509/ROSWELL-DEBRIS.php

ROSWELL DEBRIS CONFIRMED AS EXTRATERRESTRIAL: Lab Located, Scientists Named

by Anthony Bragalia

Posted: 11:44 May 26, 2009

Newly discovered documents reveal that in the months immediately following the purported 1947 UFO crash at Roswell, secret government studies began on a material that was previously unknown to science. The "memory metal" that was studied precisely matches some of the debris material reported by several witnesses to the crash. Evidence shows that -under military direction- these unique metal studies were undertaken by a contracted laboratory that possessed advanced technical capabilities that the U.S. government itself did not have at the time. A former high-level scientist employed by the involved laboratory has offered a confession that he was tasked to study the crashed UFO material. Information provided by two U.S. Air Force Generals also offers direct support for this discovery.

The documents suggest that after the crash, the US government attempted to develop a unique material that is today referred to as memory metal. This shape-recovery alloy was reported by several witnesses to the Roswell crash in the summer of 1947. The lightweight "morphing" material was able to be crumpled or deformed and then return itself instantly and seamlessly to its original state. The metallurgical discoveries that resulted from these studies were then "seeded" for further technology development to other government agencies (including NASA) and through a series of military contracts to universities and industry.

The laboratory contracted by Wright Patterson Air Force Base to perform these studies was Battelle Memorial Institute in Columbus, OH. It has been credibly reported that Wright Patterson Air Force Base was the very base where the Roswell UFO debris was flown after the crash.

The direct connection between the Roswell debris and the Battelle studies is revealed in a material known as Nitinol.

Nitinol is a specially processed combination of Nickel and Titanium, or NiTi. It displays many of the very same properties and physical characteristics as some of the crash debris materials that was reported at Roswell. Both are memory metals that "remember" their original shape and both are extremely lightweight. The materials are reported to have similar color, possess a high fatigue strength and are able to withstand extreme high heat.

Today Nitinol is incorporated in items as far-ranging as medical implants and bendable eyeglass frames. It is produced in many forms including sheet, wire and coil. Newer "intelligent metal" systems are being studied by NASA in the creation of bendable or flappable wings, as self-actuators and as a "self-healing" outer hull "skin" for spacecraft. It is believed that the memory metal found at Roswell came from the outer structures of a downed extraterrestrial spacecraft.

Ra, mate, what is with the repeated rambling of Bragalia? How many times have I seen Bade tear down his article with widely known facts which precede the Roswell incident?

Remember this post a whole page ago?

Don't you think the fact that the effort on making memory metal was started in 1932 (some 15 years before Roswell) and specifically on Nitenol in 1938 (some 9 years before Roswell) is rather ruining the memory metal angle?

That tears down everything you cut and pasted above about the memory metal fantasy I am afraid.

You did not answer my questions at all. You have just dragged some old ones out again. Care to answer as to why Marcel Senior and Marcel Junior disagree on I beams and square beams?

Haut’s story, will be blindly accepted by many UFO researchers simply because it breathes life into the crashed spaceship scenario. Did you know Haut was on Larry King in 2003? The interview went something like this

KING: Did you, Walter, ever see any of the wreckage?

HAUT: No, sir

.

Frank Warren was present at the Connors and Balthasar interview. His comments

That said, he did in fact (in response to a question) answer in the affirmative regarding seeing (substantial) wreckage and or bodies.

I haven't viewed the tape recently, and am relying on my written notes from when I did, but will be reviewing it again today. According to my notes, I counted _4_ times where he said he didn't see anything! (Warren)

He has a different story for everyone What a guy huh! He has the time to give everybody an exciting story. You are just going with the last and most popular version. Marcel still disagrees and says Haut made the press release on own, how is it your 2 star witnesses cannot agree on the allegedly same incident? Haut is also good friends with Glen Dennis........

The Russian space victory is merely proving we have made all this tech ourselves. Not ET help at all. It also proves the Americans are not as efficient as people make out hey. You think they can hide this secret from the Russians? Russians have radars, satellites, spies etc too. They did not beat them into space. Heck, they looked like fools when they could not turn up any WMD's in the desert. They could have just planted a few and justified the war, Nixon? you have to be kidding, the guy that was busted with Watergate is helping to keep this under wraps, after disgracefully being ousted from his position?

You want to meet someone suffering from dementia before deciding deathbed confessions are foolproof solid. My father went like that, as did my wife's uncle, it is not pretty.

Edited September 10, 2009 by psyche101

[badeskov]

SCIENTIST ADMITS TO STUDY OF ROSWELL CRASH DEBRIS!

(Confirmed by FOIA Document) by Anthony Bragalia

A research study that has recently been obtained through FOIA offers stunning confirmation that Wright-Patterson Air Force base contracted Battelle Memorial Institute to analyze material from a crashed UFO at Roswell in 1947. Remarkably, the co-author of this very metals study is the same scientist who decades ago had confessed that he had examined extraterrestrial metal from a crashed UFO while he was a research scientist at Battelle! This just-received document also reveals that another one of its metallurgist authors reported directly to a Battelle scientist who was conducting secret UFO studies for the USAF. It appears that the study represents first-ever attempts in creating highly novel and advanced Titanium alloys. Some of these alloys were later associated with the development of "memory metal" of the type reported as crash debris at Roswell.

http://ufocon.blogsp...of-roswell.html

Another scientist confiming the Roswell debris was from an extraterrestrial craft, which is what I have been hearing down here in Texas from those who were htere.

Ahh, yawn. Clearly you have not followed this debate, which even had its own thread. Mr. Bragalia's work has been thoroughly torn apart and to quote Evangium, has the same literary value as toilet paper.

The work on memory metal was started in 1932 and specifically on Nitenol in 1938 (although it wasn't called that at the time). That is some 9 years before Roswell. How do you explain that?

Secondly, that Battelle letter obtained under FOIA is grossly misrepresented by Mr. Bragalia. In the letter itself Battelle actually explicitly states that the Air Force needs to obtain "physical, tangible data" for anybody to make any assessment. That basically means that they had no material at all.

Kinda not only punctures the memory metal angle, but also the whole Roswell crash idea (as why would Battelle state that they need material if they had a whole spaceship?).

In other words, Roswell is dead. All facts tells us that whatever happened at Roswell was something rather mundane and not something extra-ordinary of ET origin. The ET explanation does not have a single fact on its side and even has to rely on misrepresentations as the ones by Mr. Bragalia and Mr. Friedman. Pretty sad, actually.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[Lilly]

You want to meet someone suffering from dementia before deciding deathbed confessions are foolproof solid. My father went like that, as did my wife's uncle, it is not pretty.

Absolutely correct. Sadly, my Mom has Alzheimer's disease, some of the things she comes up with are absolutely incredible. The neurologist told us that 40% of all people over age 80 have some form of cognitive decline...raise that to age 90 and it goes up to over 50%.

[Ra_Sun-God]

Ahh, yawn. Clearly you have not followed this debate, which even had its own thread. Mr. Bragalia's work has been thoroughly torn apart and to quote Evangium, has the same literary value as toilet paper.

The work on memory metal was started in 1932 and specifically on Nitenol in 1938 (although it wasn't called that at the time). That is some 9 years before Roswell. How do you explain that?

Secondly, that Battelle letter obtained under FOIA is grossly misrepresented by Mr. Bragalia. In the letter itself Battelle actually explicitly states that the Air Force needs to obtain "physical, tangible data" for anybody to make any assessment. That basically means that they had no material at all.

Kinda not only punctures the memory metal angle, but also the whole Roswell crash idea (as why would Battelle state that they need material if they had a whole spaceship?).

In other words, Roswell is dead. All facts tells us that whatever happened at Roswell was something rather mundane and not something extra-ordinary of ET origin. The ET explanation does not have a single fact on its side and even has to rely on misrepresentations as the ones by Mr. Bragalia and Mr. Friedman. Pretty sad, actually.

Cheers,

Badeskov

I hope you are not employed as a "Forum Infiltrater". You could be accused to be hired as a "Forum Infiltrater" since you say "Roswell is dead". First, Roswell is not dead at all. Beside, you are not able to disprove the Roswell UFO Crash, and please don't say "I don't have to disprove it" because that does NOT work at all, Badeskov.

Bragalia's work has not been torn apart at all:

http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/roswell-debris-confirmed-as-extraterrestrial-lab-located-scientists-named-by-anthony-bragalia/

Newly discovered documents reveal that in the months immediately following the purported 1947 UFO crash at Roswell, secret government studies began on a material that was previously unknown to science. The “memory metal” that was studied precisely matches some of the debris material reported by several witnesses to the crash. Evidence shows that -under military direction- these unique metal studies were undertaken by a contracted laboratory that possessed advanced technical capabilities that the U.S. government itself did not have at the time. A former high-level scientist employed by the involved laboratory has offered a confession that he was tasked to study the crashed UFO material. Information provided by two U.S. Air Force Generals also offers direct support for this discovery. …

Battelle scientist Elroy John Center has stated that he analyzed metal from a crashed UFO when he was employed by the Institute. Center was a Senior Research Chemist who worked for Battelle for nearly two decades, from 1939 to 1957. This has been confirmed by both his University of Michigan alumni files and by the location of scientific papers that he authored during his employment while at Battelle.

A graduate Chemical Engineer, Center authored papers that appeared in highly technical journals. His areas of research included the chemical testing of metals; the microdetermination of metals in alloys; and the spectroscopic analysis of unique materials. Center was likely involved in early analysis of the Roswell debris. A groundbreaking metals analysis technique that Center developed has been found cited in studies related to the “polygraphic determination of Titanium” in alloys. Specially-selected Titanium is required to create the Roswell-like “memory metal” Nitinol.

Center’s family members confirm that he had an intense interest in UFOs and the extraterrestrial. In May of 1992, noted historical researcher Dr. Irena Scott of Columbus, OH (herself a former Battelle scientist) interviewed a close professional associate of Elroy Center. Elroy had privately related to him in June of 1960 that while he was employed at Battelle he had been involved in a very strange laboratory project. Center said that earlier he had been tasked by his superiors to assist on a highly-classified Battelle study that was contracted by the government. He said that the project involved work on a very unusual material. Center understood that this debris material was retrieved by the US government from the earlier crash of a UFO. Center referred to the item he studied as a “piece.” He explained that this “piece” was not something with which anyone was familiar. He also said that the debris had been inscribed with strange symbols that he called “glyphics.” Similar markings have of course been reported by some of the witnesses to the Roswell crash debris. Center stopped short of providing any further details. The Battelle scientist passed away in 1991.

Were do you see that the memory material was created on this planet years before 1947? Even if similar material was made on this planet years before 1947 it does not mean that the memory material from the crashed ET spacecraft is not "Look alike".

The link you use claim that some scientists created memory metal years before 1947, material similar to that memory metal of the crashed ET spacecraft near Roswell, wauw, what a coincident. Are you sure it's not just another Cover Up attempt? If it's not just another Cover Up attempt (some Cover Up's have been exposed, like the weather balloon cover up attempt and the Air Force admitted that, and the Russians punished the Americans (the Americans deserved it) by exposing CIA's NASA U-2 weather air plane cover up attempt of the U-2 spyplane that was shut down over Soviet Union, and Nikita Khruschev made much propaganda use of the American deception, what a waste of time and money about that U-2 weather air plane cover up attempt) then why was the memory metal not used in the construction of the American World War II war airplanes so the enemies could not shoot them down?

Bragalia is a member of this forum! That is so cool! He have even had a conversation with skeptic Tim Printy! Cool!

[Lilly]

I hope you are not employed as a "Forum Infiltrater". You could be accused to be hired as a "Forum Infiltrater" since you say "Roswell is dead"...

Please, just because someone has an opinion you disagree with don't accuse them of being some kind of 'hired debunking agent'. This kind of thing doesn't help to support ones argument in the least.

[badeskov]

I hope you are not employed as a "Forum Infiltrater". You could be accused to be hired as a "Forum Infiltrater" since you say "Roswell is dead".

Why on Earth would I spend time being a forum infiltrator? That thought is just absurd.

First, Roswell is not dead at all.

But it is.

Beside, you are not able to disprove the Roswell UFO Crash, and please don't say "I don't have to disprove it" because that does NOT work at all, Badeskov.

<snip>

First of all, actually I don't have to disprove it. But it is very apparent that you have no clue of the burden of proof, so I gather it is a waste of time anyhow. Secondly, I have time and time again peeled Mr. Bragalia's claims apart and not a single time have you offered any constructive counter-arguments.

Already there have I offered the counter-evidence I don't really have to offer for the memory metal angle and Mr. Bragalia's claims. Several times have I asked you two simple questions (see post 1126 in the more best evidence thread, for instance), which you have not bothered to answer or even comment on. But just for you I will recap:

Isee that you reference the same old stuff which has already beenrefuted. Maybe you can answer two direct questions for me. I don't wantto see another link fest with snippets from the same old worn out webpages. I want your personal assessment, please, your own thoughts on my questions:

1)The letter from Batelle to the Air Force states that the Air Forceneeds to acquire physical evidence for the investigation to yieldanything. In other words, they had no debris at all to work with andthus no shape memory alloy analyze.

Question: how does this in any way, shape or form support Bragalia's conclusion?

2)Research in shape memory alloys was started in the early 1930s, andspecifically a research effort into the Nitinol alloy was initiated in1938, some 9 years before Roswell. Thus the sought after properties forsuch materials were well known. How they should behave and to a largeextent even their material composition were also well known. In fact,such materials have a very detailed research history going back some 15 years before Roswell without any significant leaps in progress.

Question: how does this in any way, shape or form support Bragalia's conclusion?

Sothose are my two rather simple questions. If you are really convincedthat Roswell happened as alleged then you shouldn't have a problemoffering your personal thoughts on that matter, I hope. If you do, however, just let me know and we will let that case rest.

Would you like to try and answer now or will you do what we typically see from you, which is the same mindless copy/paste of Mr. Bragalia's ramblings with no substantiation offered from your side?

Is that really all you can do? Keeping on parroting something that is provably wrong? Come on Ra, you can do better than that. If not, just let me know and I will let you ramble on in peace as then it is obviously a waste of time to discuss with you as you feel no incentive to look critically at what you (or others) post or to learn anything; rather you want to live in a dreamworld conveniently free of obstructing facts.

Just let me know, please.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited September 10, 2009 by badeskov

[Ra_Sun-God]

Please, just because someone has an opinion you disagree with don't accuse them of being some kind of 'hired debunking agent'. This kind of thing doesn't help to support ones argument in the least.

Sorry, my mistake. Excuse me, but I think it's a good idea that Badeskov have to stop using the "In other words Roswell is dead"-claim when the case still is open. He could instead say "In my opinion Roswell is dead".

Edited September 10, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Ra_Sun-God]

Why on Earth would I spend time being a forum infiltrator? That thought is just absurd.

But it is.

First of all, actually I don't have to disprove it. But it is very apparent that you have no clue of the burden of proof, so I gather it is a waste of time anyhow. Secondly, I have time and time again peeled Mr. Bragalia's claims apart and not a single time have you offered any constructive counter-arguments.

Already there have I offered the counter-evidence I don't really have to offer for the memory metal angle and Mr. Bragalia's claims. Several times have I asked you two simple questions (see post 1126 in the more best evidence thread, for instance), which you have not bothered to answer or even comment on. But just for you I will recap:

Would you like to try and answer now or will you do what we typically see from you, which is the same mindless copy/paste of Mr. Bragalia's ramblings with no substantiation offered from your side?

Is that really all you can do? Keeping on parroting something that is provably wrong? Come on Ra, you can do better than that. If not, just let me know and I will let you ramble on in peace as then it is obviously a waste of time to discuss with you as you feel no incentive to look critically at what you (or others) post or to learn anything; rather you want to live in a dreamworld conveniently free of obstructing facts.

Just let me know, please.

Cheers,

Badeskov

You have to stop saying "Roswell is dead" when the case still is open. Instead you have to learn to say "In my opinion Roswell is dead". Can you see the difference? When you say "Roswell is dead" then you have to expect someone who come forward to say to you "That claim of yours is wrong when the case still is open".

Roswell is not dead. Roswell still exist. Not only that Roswell still exist on the map of USA, but the case of Roswell Incident is not closed, but still open......

You have not pealed Bragalia's work apart at all.

All right, let me take a look at your questions again. Sorry, I should had answered them. These was your questions:

1) The letter from Batelle to the Air Force states that the Air Force needs to acquire physical evidence for the investigation to yield anything. In other words, they had no debris at all to work with and thus no shape memory alloy analyze.

Question: how does this in any way, shape or form support Bragalia's conclusion?

2) Research in shape memory alloys was started in the early 1930s, and specifically a research effort into the Nitinol alloy was initiated in 1938, some 9 years before Roswell. Thus the sought after properties for such materials were well known. How they should behave and to a large extent even their material composition were also well known. In fact, such materials have a very detailed research history going back some 15 years before Roswell without any significant leaps in progress.

Question: how does this in any way, shape or form support Bragalia's conclusion?

1) Maybe they got the physical evidence to work with some time after that letter. Can you please show what letter it is, what link?

2) Evidence for the Roswell-Battelle Connection was drawn from:

Footnotes that were located within military studies to a Battelle report on memory metal conducted by the Institute for Wright Patterson in the late 1940s

The fact that - although footnotes citing these reports have been found- the actual reports are "missing" despite repeated efforts

Supporting information provided by two USAF Generals (including one from Wright Patterson) on the composition of the debris and the existence of the analysis reports

A senior-level Battelle scientist's confession that he had analyzed the UFO crash debris when employed at the Institute

A historical "backtracking" of the technical literature on the development of shape-recovery metals- leading back to the doors of Battelle and Wright Patterson, to late 1940s exotic metal reports and to the Roswell Incident

A telling examination of the life of Battelle's Dr. Howard Cross as both metallurgist and UFO researcher- showing his likely involvement in the debris analysis

In this last installment, the memory metal's secret history is further exposed- and the hidden meaning of the metal is finally revealed:

MEMORY METAL'S "OFFICIAL HISTORY" IS FALSE

Europeans in the 1930s conducting metal "bendability" and stress tests noted that some alloys (containing Aluminum) could exhibit a type of "pseudo-elasticity." In fact -since man began forging metal by fire- the "state of metal" was known to be "changeable."

But the Battelle studies conducted for Wright Patterson in the late 1940s represent something entirely different. They show that this was the very first time that a metal system that had the potential for genuine "shape recovery" was ever examined by the U.S. military. And these studies began immediately following the Roswell crash where similar material was reported to have been found. Importantly, even after decades, the Nickel-Titanium metal system (Nitinol) remains the material that defines "morphing metal." Any earlier observation of "pseudo-elasticity" was with a metal alloy that did not utilize Nickel and Titanium- and that was not developed for that property. Nitinol, however, has gone on to be used in a variety of things from eyeglass frames to aircraft to medical implants.

So you see, they had debris to work with.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Ra_Sun-God]

That's right! Naaaah!

After all, Lt. Haut made it clear in his affidavit after he died and you know the old story; " You can't take it with you." In that regard, money was not a factor.

Well put. "You can't take it with you", money was not a factor

[Ra_Sun-God]

Have you managed to get a copy of that book I referenced? - This One?

Remember? In it, Jesse Marcel Senior says his son is wrong, the beams were not I beams, they were square in shape.

So which Marcel is it you are claiming is telling the truth

I think that book is just another attempt to put the words into both Jesse Marcel Senior's and his son's mouths.

And I noticed that that book made another big mistake too:

That book maded this question "Why did he wait 32 years before coming out with his story?". That book should never had asked that question, because then someone can easily come forward to peale that book apart by saying >>Because he was threatened to silence, and decided to make a deathbed confession (while he was still young) to be open after his DEATH!<<. And I will say that that's a good explanation.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Ra_Sun-God]

The skeptics might as well accept the fact the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrial beings and as the years been rolling on, the more we have learned about the facts surrounding the Roswell incident.

I agree, the skeptics might as well accept the fact the Roswell Incident involved extraterrestrial beings.

And it is expected that many skeptics will become Former Skeptics, and it is already begun:

http://www.rense.com/general45/org.htm

Professional Skeptics Group Proves UFOs Real

[Ra_Sun-God]

Are you implying that someone was spreading memory metal on the Foster ranch in July 1947?

After all, the Roswell witnesses were describing a material in 1947 that mimics the properties of today's memory metal.

Spreading human made memory metal on Foster Ranch????? I have a great great laugh (my stomach hurts). I myself very doubt they spread memory metal on Foster Ranch in July 1947, and I'm sure you also very doubt they did that.

Someone did certainly messed up with the original history of the human made memory metal's origin:

MEMORY METAL'S "OFFICIAL HISTORY" IS FALSE

Europeans in the 1930s conducting metal "bendability" and stress tests noted that some alloys (containing Aluminum) could exhibit a type of "pseudo-elasticity." In fact -since man began forging metal by fire- the "state of metal" was known to be "changeable."

But the Battelle studies conducted for Wright Patterson in the late 1940s represent something entirely different. They show that this was the very first time that a metal system that had the potential for genuine "shape recovery" was ever examined by the U.S. military. And these studies began immediately following the Roswell crash where similar material was reported to have been found. Importantly, even after decades, the Nickel-Titanium metal system (Nitinol) remains the material that defines "morphing metal." Any earlier observation of "pseudo-elasticity" was with a metal alloy that did not utilize Nickel and Titanium- and that was not developed for that property. Nitinol, however, has gone on to be used in a variety of things from eyeglass frames to aircraft to medical implants.

And that means that the U.S. Air Force first began scientific work with memory metal after they examined the debris from the crashed ET spacecraft.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Ra_Sun-God]

You did not answer my questions at all. You have just dragged some old ones out again. Care to answer as to why Marcel Senior and Marcel Junior disagree on I beams and square beams?

Hauts story, will be blindly accepted by many UFO researchers simply because it breathes life into the crashed spaceship scenario. Did you know Haut was on Larry King in 2003? The interview went something like this

Frank Warren was present at the Connors and Balthasar interview. His comments

He has a different story for everyone What a guy huh! He has the time to give everybody an exciting story. You are just going with the last and most popular version. Marcel still disagrees and says Haut made the press release on own, how is it your 2 star witnesses cannot agree on the allegedly same incident? Haut is also good friends with Glen Dennis........

The Russian space victory is merely proving we have made all this tech ourselves. Not ET help at all. It also proves the Americans are not as efficient as people make out hey. You think they can hide this secret from the Russians? Russians have radars, satellites, spies etc too. They did not beat them into space. Heck, they looked like fools when they could not turn up any WMD's in the desert. They could have just planted a few and justified the war, Nixon? you have to be kidding, the guy that was busted with Watergate is helping to keep this under wraps, after disgracefully being ousted from his position?

You want to meet someone suffering from dementia before deciding deathbed confessions are foolproof solid. My father went like that, as did my wife's uncle, it is not pretty.

That is confusing about the I-beam vs beam. What source is that? I don't know, maybe they put the words into their mouths?

Did Haut say he did not saw the debris on Larry King Live? Please put that on, I want to see it.

The space program was certainly human made No ET were involved there.

I agree, it is not nice to see old people suffering of dementia. But I think the deathbed confessions were already made while they still were young, and then let their children release their deathbed confessions. Just what I think. I doubt they maded the deathbed confessions during their last breath while they rest in peace in bed.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[badeskov]

Are you implying that someone was spreading memory metal on the Foster ranch in July 1947?

No, I am quite simply implying your witnesses are wrong in their assessment and Mr. Friedman et. al. took some artistic freedom (and that he did - that is a well known fact) when writing his books. Something serious researchers would never do.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[badeskov]

You have to stop saying "Roswell is dead" when the case still is open. Instead you have to learn to say "In my opinion Roswell is dead". Can you see the difference? When you say "Roswell is dead" then you have to expect someone who come forward to say to you "That claim of yours is wrong when the case still is open".

I certainly hope that if anybody wants to challenge me, then they would do it from a factual point and not the mindless cut-and-paste from already debunked sources that seems to be the modus operandi of believers of the Roswell myth.

Normally you give your opinion when you do not have independently verifiable facts to back you up and that opinion translates into something stronger when facts are used to back it up, just as I and others have done. And exactly what the Roswell ET proponents have utterly failed to do.

But if you really like that, then it is my firm belief that the Roswell tale is dead.

Roswell is not dead. Roswell still exist. Not only that Roswell still exist on the map of USA, but the case of Roswell Incident is not closed, but still open......

It is closed for all but those who deny factual evidence and relies on misconceptions and misrepresentations to keep a myth alive.

You have not pealed Bragalia's work apart at all.

But I have and it is abundantly clear that you have not even bothered to do a back ground study of the subject, unfortunately.

All right, let me take a look at your questions again. Sorry, I should had answered them. These was your questions:

No worries, Ra

My questions to you (and others):

1) The letter from Batelle to the Air Force states that the Air Force needs to acquire physical evidence for the investigation to yield anything. In other words, they had no debris at all to work with and thus no shape memory alloy analyze.

Question: how does this in any way, shape or form support Bragalia's conclusion?

2) Research in shape memory alloys was started in the early 1930s, and specifically a research effort into the Nitinol alloy was initiated in 1938, some 9 years before Roswell. Thus the sought after properties for such materials were well known. How they should behave and to a large extent even their material composition were also well known. In fact, such materials have a very detailed research history going back some 15 years before Roswell without any significant leaps in progress.

Question: how does this in any way, shape or form support Bragalia's conclusion?

And your answers:

1) Maybe they got the physical evidence to work with some time after that letter. Can you please show what letter it is, what link?

Now that is just a copout that does not work - at all. But lets get back to that. Mr Bragalia clearly states in his article that the H. C. Cross memo (the Pentacle memo) is the smoking gun. From Bragalia (link and link):

His story is told more completely in an article archived on UFOIconclasts- "Roswell Metal Scientist: The Curious Dr. Cross." Cross haddirect connections to government-sponsored UFO studies with suchagencies as the USAF, NACA- the predecessor organization to NASA, theCIA and with U.S. Navy Intelligence. He was also the author of thecontroversial letter to Wright-Patterson on UFOs known in researchcircles as the "Pentacle Memo."

This memo is here. And what H. C. Cross actually concludes is that (third paragraph):

Experience to date on our study of unidentified flying objects shows that there is a distinct lack of reliable data with which to work. Even the best-documented reports are frequently lacking in critical information that makes it impossible to arrive at a possible identification, i.e. even in a well-documented report there is always an element of doubt about the data, either because the observer had no means of getting the required data, or was not prepared to utilize the means at his disposal. Therefore, we recommend that a controlled experiment be set up by which reliable physical data can be obtained. A tentative preliminary plan by which the experiment could be designed and carried out is discussed in the following paragraphs.

Bolding mine. Thus, he concludes that they have no data at all to work with. And that means no physical specimen either. Except from this one letter, Mr. Bragalia only refers to one other available document, which is an unclassified document written in 1972 by Wang, one of the inventors of Nitinol. I linked to this report before and in it Dr. Wang describes the history of Nitinol, which of course also includes the earlier research efforts in the late 1940's. This Mr. Bragalia somehow manages to turn into a connection to Roswell, completely out of the blue.

In essence, Mr. Bragalia's work is full of assertions that has no basis in reality and he is utterly unable to document, and the few documents he refers to actually directly contradicts his work.

2) Evidence for the Roswell-Battelle Connection was drawn from:

Footnotes that were located within military studies to a Battelle report on memory metal conducted by the Institute for Wright Patterson in the late 1940s

The fact that - although footnotes citing these reports have been found- the actual reports are "missing" despite repeated efforts

Supporting information provided by two USAF Generals (including one from Wright Patterson) on the composition of the debris and the existence of the analysis reports

A senior-level Battelle scientist's confession that he had analyzed the UFO crash debris when employed at the Institute

A historical "backtracking" of the technical literature on the development of shape-recovery metals- leading back to the doors of Battelle and Wright Patterson, to late 1940s exotic metal reports and to the Roswell Incident

A telling examination of the life of Battelle's Dr. Howard Cross as both metallurgist and UFO researcher- showing his likely involvement in the debris analysis

In this last installment, the memory metal's secret history is further exposed- and the hidden meaning of the metal is finally revealed:

MEMORY METAL'S "OFFICIAL HISTORY" IS FALSE

Europeans in the 1930s conducting metal "bendability" and stress tests noted that some alloys (containing Aluminum) could exhibit a type of "pseudo-elasticity." In fact -since man began forging metal by fire- the "state of metal" was known to be "changeable."

But the Battelle studies conducted for Wright Patterson in the late 1940s represent something entirely different. They show that this was the very first time that a metal system that had the potential for genuine "shape recovery" was ever examined by the U.S. military. And these studies began immediately following the Roswell crash where similar material was reported to have been found. Importantly, even after decades, the Nickel-Titanium metal system (Nitinol) remains the material that defines "morphing metal." Any earlier observation of "pseudo-elasticity" was with a metal alloy that did not utilize Nickel and Titanium- and that was not developed for that property. Nitinol, however, has gone on to be used in a variety of things from eyeglass frames to aircraft to medical implants.

So you see, they had debris to work with.

Gawkd. I can only say see above. What you just did there was to AGAIN blindly cut and past from Mr. Bragalia's work. Which is not helping your cause at all. The same article I have already peeled apart several times. When I ask you how a certain point can support Mr. Bragalia's work, you cannot just use his substantiations. You have to explain to me why his substantiations are correct based on my questions. That you did not do. You used his substantiation, which is being questioned.

In essence, Mr. Bragalia's credibility is zero and his works are, again to paraphrase Evangium, of the same literary value as toilet paper. He is relying on you and others not to actually look at his background material and references and what they actually say. So you can go and buy his books. It is that simple.

However, it tells me that you do not have the means to argue for your case and further discussions are pointless.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[skyeagle409]

No, I am quite simply implying your witnesses are wrong in their assessment and Mr. Friedman et. al. took some artistic freedom (and that he did - that is a well known fact) when writing his books. Something serious researchers would never do.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Some of those witnesses were on video tape as they described the properties of that material, so there was no question as to what they were saying. Their descriptions matched the properties of memory metal, buty they were unaware of memery metal at that time.

[The One Who Is]

Why on Earth would I spend time being a forum infiltrator?

The amusement factor?

[skyeagle409]

I certainly hope that if anybody wants to challenge me, then they would do it from a factual point and not the mindless cut-and-paste from already debunked sources that seems to be the modus operandi of believers of the Roswell myth.

I have to tell you and the other skeptics, you are not in a position by any means to declare the Roswell incident a myth by any means, and you should have known that! You do not possess the needed security clearance to know for sure, but those who do, were the foks who have declared the Roswell incident the result of extraterrestrials and you should listen to them rather than the skeptics who do not possess such security clearances who don''t even know what they are talking about.

That is why there were still pushing the false weather balloon story of 47 years, and a Project Mogul balloon flight #4 that never was, and test dummies and accident victims of the 1950s to explain an incidnt that took place a decade earlier.

In that regards, it is very clear that their track record isn't where it should be and why I have warned skeptics to beware of those silly websites.

Normally you give your opinion when you do not have independently verifiable facts to back you up and that opinion translates into something stronger when facts are used to back it up, just as I and others have done. And exactly what the Roswell ET proponents have utterly failed to do.

I want to add that for years, those involved in the Roswell incident and those stationed at Wright-Patterson AFB, have stated that the Roswell material had undergone anaylysis and now, more on that is coming out into the open. Even the former commanding officer of Wright-Patterson AFB has stated for the record that the Roswell debris was analyzed and that the material came from space, and he said that years ago and now, look what is now being revealed today.

Not long ago, I predicted that there is more to the Roswell story and that more will be revealed as time goes on and look what is being revealed now!

Edited September 11, 2009 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

I certainly hope that if anybody wants to challenge me, then they would do it from a factual point and not the mindless cut-and-paste from already debunked sources that seems to be the modus operandi of believers of the Roswell myth.

I want to further add that the skeptics are the folks who are on the wrong side of the fence in regards to the Roswell incident.

[psyche101]

That is confusing about the I-beam vs beam. What source is that? I don't know, maybe they put the words into their mouths?

Direct quote. Cannot be putting words into a mouth if they are already there. The simple fact is Marcel Snr. and Marcel Jnr. disagree on the wreckage. Seems a big fly in the debris field ointment to me.

Did Haut say he did not saw the debris on Larry King Live? Please put that on, I want to see it.

Yep, and he had several different versions. Click here for them.

The space program was certainly human made No ET were involved there.

Despite people claiming Roswell is responsible for all out modern gadgets, we can see that is not the case, each and every item in such category has a long paper trail behind it. There was no leg up, no new tech from this advanced craft we supposedly captured.

I agree, it is not nice to see old people suffering of dementia. But I think the deathbed confessions were already made while they still were young, and then let their children release their deathbed confessions. Just what I think. I doubt they maded the deathbed confessions during their last breath while they rest in peace in bed.

Check the above link. Walter had several versions. People are just going with the most spectacular one, which happened to also be his finale.

[psyche101]

I agree, the skeptics might as well accept the fact the Roswell Incident involved extraterrestrial beings.

And it is expected that many skeptics will become Former Skeptics, and it is already begun:

http://www.rense.com/general45/org.htm

Professional Skeptics Group Proves UFOs Real

Someone believes Billy Meier. That is proof? That will swing people to believe in Roswell? You are kidding right? Agent Fox Mulder from the X Files would have believed him as well.

This is the guy whoe predicted WWIII in 2006 2008 hang on its now 2010 or 2011!

Ohhh yeah, real credible............ at least I see some similarities with Roswell I guess!! Next year we will have our proof ....... FOR SURE THIS TIME!!!!!!! Yeah, Roswell is about as credible as Blossom Goodchild.

[Ra_Sun-God]

Despite people claiming Roswell is responsible for all out modern gadgets, we can see that is not the case, each and every item in such category has a long paper trail behind it. There was no leg up, no new tech from this advanced craft we supposedly captured.

Did NASA and/or the Russian space scientists ever mentioned that they used technology taken from the crashed UFO? The Roswell Incident have nothing to do with the US and/or Russian spaceprogram. I don't know where you have that idea from. Did I ever mentioned that the US and/or Russian spaceprogram used ET technology? NEVER!!

Either you are trying to mislead the debate, or you misunderstood something there Psyche101......

Edited September 11, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Ra_Sun-God]

Someone believes Billy Meier. That is proof? That will swing people to believe in Roswell? You are kidding right? Agent Fox Mulder from the X Files would have believed him as well.

This is the guy whoe predicted WWIII in 2006 2008 hang on its now 2010 or 2011!

Ohhh yeah, real credible............ at least I see some similarities with Roswell I guess!! Next year we will have our proof ....... FOR SURE THIS TIME!!!!!!! Yeah, Roswell is about as credible as Blossom Goodchild.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdgha_billy-meierdes-preuves-extraterrest

Will you please read the link again? I think you did not read it properly. That skeptic group tried to debunk Meier's UFO photos, but is finally convinced the photos are real enough.

As you can see, even this video documentary shows that the photographs of the UFO's as Billy Meyer took are real enough. The skeptics had tried to debunk them, but finally found out they are not hoax.

And it is just the matter of time there will be less (there are at least one former skeptic by now regarding Roswell UFO crash) and more less skeptics left regarding the Roswell Incident too......

Edited September 11, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God