Precolombian Airplane Models

[DurgaMata]

Fringe writers should be thanked for getting so many people interested in subjects that would otherwise not get so much attention.

I agree with that but there comes a point where you realise these authors are making it up to sell books. Its like realising wrestling is fake as a kid and getting in to real sports (or not). Real history can be interesting too.

[MARAB0D]

The point is, this is a DISCUSSION place - a forum - a place where people discuss. Not a place as has been said so often, to get a PhD. If you get tired of answering the same question, why do you come here? People ask the same question because they are not satisfied with the answer. It doesn't mean they didn't understand the answer that was given. It means they're searching for a better answer. Fringe writers should be thanked for getting so many people interested in subjects that would otherwise not get so much attention.

Exactly! Forums are not a Delphi Oracle, and there is sure no approved wizards here to answer all questions, this is just a talking place.

[tinieblas]

the question I have is, though; were the people this jewellary was linked to sea-faring though? I imagine to see these rays/guitarfish etc one would need to live on or by the sea, no? Did they?

I see the veracity of both arguments and so far neither has convinced me definitively. The main reason for this is the acidic acerbity of the 'no' crowd....closedmindedness doesn't tend to convince too strongly...

is it POSSIBLE I think the thread author is asking; not "am I a stupid spleen target"?

[Qoais]

Thanks tinieblas - I was going to ask that question too but totally forgot. Not about being a target for vented spleen but how many of the artists of those artifacts ever saw a guitar fish?

[aquatus1]

I see the veracity of both arguments and so far neither has convinced me definitively. The main reason for this is the acidic acerbity of the 'no' crowd....closedmindedness doesn't tend to convince too strongly...

But you do understand the exasperation of having literally hundreds of little gold trinkets that unquestionably represent animals and insects from that entire area, and then picking out five or six of them out of the entire collection and saying: "Except these! These are actually airplanes!", right? You can see where that sort of logic might seem like cherry-picking, don't you?

[Oniomancer]

the question I have is, though; were the people this jewellary was linked to sea-faring though? I imagine to see these rays/guitarfish etc one would need to live on or by the sea, no? Did they?

That depends on what sort of trade network they had. From what I've read, the guitarfish it seems is considered good eatin'. Since they're common to south american coastal waters, I imagine they'd be a readily available and widely used commodity in preserved form.

I see the veracity of both arguments and so far neither has convinced me definitively. The main reason for this is the acidic acerbity of the 'no' crowd....closedmindedness doesn't tend to convince too strongly...

One notices that the recievers of this responce are usually pretty clear that they've made up their own minds already.

[Abramelin]

UFO Hunters had a episode about these planes they thought that they could be from are distant future. They have made a bigger model of them and they flew

What distant future??

Will they be flying these things in the distant future, AND be able to time-travel?

Come on.

[+HerNibs]

But you do understand the exasperation of having literally hundreds of little gold trinkets that unquestionably represent animals and insects from that entire area, and then picking out five or six of them out of the entire collection and saying: "Except these! These are actually airplanes!", right? You can see where that sort of logic might seem like cherry-picking, don't you?

I love this. This pretty much sums up what many of us have said again and again.

Rockin aquatus!!

Nibs

[+HerNibs]

What distant future??

Will they be flying these things in the distant future, AND be able to time-travel?

Come on.

Well...we do have this future historical archive footage. They look happy and healty.

Nibs

Edited October 22, 2009 by HerNibs

[Abramelin]

My only hope for the future is that people prefer to use their frontal and pre-frontal lobes and not the pariental lobe ( responsible for religion and other imaginings ).

If we all insist in believing whatever suits our fantasies, we are doomed.

And yes, THEN the aliens will take over; aliens like the Hedgehogs and Squirrels.

No need for fancy big brains and large insect eyes, just make us believe whatever you like, and you will be our master.

We are a doomed species.

.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Abramelin

[Qoais]

I would just like to point out that in this thread is the first time I've ever heard there were more of the little gold artefacts representing all kinds of bugs and so forth. All I've seen is the ones I posted a link to some time ago.

Although time travel may seem like a fantasy right now, it seems this is not so far off the truth and who knows what will be discovered in say the next 20 years? Have you not been following the news on the home page?

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=166786

I still say that the ancient wise ones were using a mind altering substance to access what they thought was the spirit world but could have been visions of the future, or an alternate plane of existence wherein they saw modern technology. Since there are things of the paranormal that although not accepted by some, do seem to have a great influence even so. Spirit Guides are an accepted norm for most folks who believe in the paranormal, and it would seem they have access to knowledge far beyond our own, although I believe they have limitations.

Such sources of knowledge do not leave traces.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Qoais

[Abramelin]

A mind altering substance....... that is lies told over and over and over again.

Even good'ol Joseph Goebels knew about that.

I can fabricate a really unbelievable story, post it on as many webistes as I can find, and then wait for the gullible to copy and paste it into their own sites.

Others will go Google, and find out that what they are looking for - and what will suit their agendas - is to be found all over the internet.

And therefore think it is all true.

EDIT:

Qoais, you will know that I have been posting like crazy about "Doggerland".

I really wanted people to add info about the topic, but not many - if any - did.

So I was thinking of posting about some recent find, dragged up by Dutch fishermen with their trawler.

I was thinking about creating a site about that find. It's very easy , you know; I could create a scientifically looking site in - let's say - an hour.

And then most of you would go "Aaahhhh!!", and believe anything you read on that site.

But I didn't. And why did I not do it? Because the topic really interests me, and I want to find out as much true info as I can get about it.

And I don't want to create lies or fairy tales to get people go "ahhhh".

.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Abramelin

[Qoais]

Abe, I don't know what you're on about. I came up with the idea of mind altering substances on my own, and then went out to check and see if anyone else thought as I did. I try to do my own thinking. I am not a robot just repeating everything fed into me. When I started out looking for Atlantis, I travelled many roads, and made a lot of mistakes. It was a wonderful education for me because I learned so much that I didn't know before.

People kept asking why there was no evidence to be found for alien spacecraft. I thought about it, and came up with an answer. If you don't like that answer, I can't help it. BUT, it does explain how at certain times humans seem to have stumbled onto higher knowledge than the level of their current development and there doesn't seem to be a hard core scientific explanation. Since I am psychic on an intuitive level, it is not difficult for me to understand or accept that the mind is a many splendored thing. We learn through dreams, we learn through astral travel, we learn by raising our awareness. It seems you may be afraid to accept that there ARE things in this world beyond our current scientific knowledge. It's fine to be scientific, but broaden your horizons. It isn't painful you know.

[Abramelin]

Abe, I don't know what you're on about. I came up with the idea of mind altering substances on my own, and then went out to check and see if anyone else thought as I did. I try to do my own thinking. I am not a robot just repeating everything fed into me. When I started out looking for Atlantis, I travelled many roads, and made a lot of mistakes. It was a wonderful education for me because I learned so much that I didn't know before.

People kept asking why there was no evidence to be found for alien spacecraft. I thought about it, and came up with an answer. If you don't like that answer, I can't help it. BUT, it does explain how at certain times humans seem to have stumbled onto higher knowledge than the level of their current development and there doesn't seem to be a hard core scientific explanation. Since I am psychic on an intuitive level, it is not difficult for me to understand or accept that the mind is a many splendored thing. We learn through dreams, we learn through astral travel, we learn by raising our awareness. It seems you may be afraid to accept that there ARE things in this world beyond our current scientific knowledge. It's fine to be scientific, but broaden your horizons. It isn't painful you know.

I tell you, I have a site about Carlos Castaneda, and it's known amongst the true believers.

Google "Twilight Zone" and "Castaneda" and you will know where you can find me.

I have dealed with socalled 'psychics' for years now, and they don't make a big impression on me by what they say.

They have lots of lovely and stunning dreams, but those dreams are rarely if ever close to what we call reality.

Sorry.

[MARAB0D]

But you do understand the exasperation of having literally hundreds of little gold trinkets that unquestionably represent animals and insects from that entire area, and then picking out five or six of them out of the entire collection and saying: "Except these! These are actually airplanes!", right? You can see where that sort of logic might seem like cherry-picking, don't you?

Let us see more details, Aquatis. Have a look at MY cherry-picking:

Boeing brooch, 1950s

sterling airplane (USA)

Rhinestone airplane

World War II airplane brooch

airplane brooch, $2.50

Blinking airplane pendant

Etc, etc, etc. Of course, its more flowers and animals available. Actually - there were few almost exactly like those precolumbian ones, but with rhinestones, pity the forum does not take png-files.

[Qoais]

They have lots of lovely and stunning dreams, but those dreams are rarely if ever close to what we call reality.

I am not talking that type of psychic. There's many levels. Like I said. Broaden your horizons. Learn something new. It's what you tell the rest of us to do all the time so take a bit of your own advice.

Nice jewellry Marabod!

[Qoais]

Well! I just found this article while surfing the web. Fancy that.

Oh My God! Look what I just stumbled on. It's old news I guess, but new to me.

Drugs Found in Hair of Ancient Andean Mummies

Charles Q. Choi

for National Geographic News

October 22, 2008

The first hard evidence of psychoactive drug use in the ancient Andes has been discovered in mummies' hair, a new study says.

The finding confirms that predecessors of the Inca known as the Tiwanaku used mind-altering substances, and hints that the civilization relied on far-reaching trade networks to obtain the drugs.

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Scientists recently analyzed 32 naturally mummified Tiwanaku bodies discovered in northern Chile's Azapa Valley, which lies in the Atacama Desert.

The researchers discovered a compound called harmine in hairs from an adult male and a one-year-old baby, who both date to sometime between A.D. 800 and 1200. Harmine can help humans absorb hallucinogens and may be a powerful antidepressant.

"These individuals probably ingested harmine in therapeutic or medicinal practices, some maybe related to pregnancy and childbirth," said study co-author Juan Pablo Ogalde, a chemical archaeologist at the University of Tarapacá in Arica, Chile.

"However, it is possible also that consumption of harmine was involved in religious rituals, said Ogalde, whose research appeared online October 14 in the Journal of Archaeological Science.

X-rays showed that the adult male—who was buried with items of social prestige such as panpipes, a four-pointed hat, and a snuffing tray—had damage near the nose, perhaps from sniffing.

As for the baby, Ogalde speculated that the mother had consumed the drug and passed it on to her offspring during pregnancy or breast-feeding.

"The fact this mind-altering substance was found even with a one-year-old shows how much a part of their life it was," said archaeologist Alexei Vranich of the University of California, Los Angeles, who did not participate in the study.

http://news.national...ug-mummies.html

[Ikki]

So... you think using drugs allows you to tap into the spirit realm or something akin to that?

That explains so much... Sorry.

[Mattshark]

So... you think using drugs allows you to tap into the spirit realm or something akin to that?

That explains so much... Sorry.

Yes not like hallucinations are a product of poisoning in anyway.

[Abramelin]

If you read the whole article - and Qoais link is broken, btw - then you will know that that drug may have been the reason why Tiwanaku was once so popular.

So, it was not because of aliens, it was because of drugs.

And I live in Holland, so I know what I am talking about.

Btw, we are not aliens.

Weird, maybe, ok, but not aliens.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/10/081022-drug-mummies.html

Edited October 24, 2009 by Abramelin

[Oniomancer]

If you read the whole article - and Qoais link is broken, btw - then you will know that that drug may have been the reason why Tiwanaku was once so popular.

So, it was not because of aliens, it was because of drugs.

And I live in Holland, so I know what I am talking about.

Btw, we are not aliens.

Weird, maybe, ok, but not aliens.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/10/081022-drug-mummies.html

Holland is also home to a world-renowned sex museum too IIRC. That reminds me, I seem to recall the Incas, Moche and others in the area having quite a bit of erotic-themed art. Hmmm...a big population center out in the middle of nowhere in the desert, catering to drugs, sex, and probably other illicit activities like gambling, with likely all manner of other entertainments to boot. A veritable "sin city" if you will. Now why does that sound familiar...

[Abramelin]

Holland is also home to a world-renowned sex museum too IIRC. That reminds me, I seem to recall the Incas, Moche and others in the area having quite a bit of erotic-themed art. Hmmm...a big population center out in the middle of nowhere in the desert, catering to drugs, sex, and probably other illicit activities like gambling, with likely all manner of other entertainments to boot. A veritable "sin city" if you will. Now why does that sound familiar...

Well, think of this: if the sea level will rise as is being predicted by scientists, we here will be one of the new 'Atlantises'.

And I have no doubt about what they will think in the distant future about the cause of us going under...

The meek will not inherit the earth, the religious and politically correct nuts will.

[Thomas Dialante]

I gave up on this thread at page ten. It has been said before and people simply ignore it. Just because an ancient civilization made artistic depictions of something, does not mean it had to actually exist. We depict things that do not exist everyday, but that has no effect on what they are intended to depict. Why is it so impossible to believe that ancient people understood the mechanics behind lift and flight, and could imagine and depict objects capable of that if they wanted? In the 60s, we drew flying cars, and they came to exist. We talked of space exploration, and it happened. Ancient cultures imagined flying vehicles, much like culture after culture since. I find it much more likely that this was intended to be a flying craft than a ray.

[FurthurBB]

I gave up on this thread at page ten. It has been said before and people simply ignore it. Just because an ancient civilization made artistic depictions of something, does not mean it had to actually exist. We depict things that do not exist everyday, but that has no effect on what they are intended to depict. Why is it so impossible to believe that ancient people understood the mechanics behind lift and flight, and could imagine and depict objects capable of that if they wanted? In the 60s, we drew flying cars, and they came to exist. We talked of space exploration, and it happened. Ancient cultures imagined flying vehicles, much like culture after culture since. I find it much more likely that this was intended to be a flying craft than a ray.

Why then were they found with hundreds of other similar objects that all depict animals?

[questionmark]

Why then were they found with hundreds of other similar objects that all depict animals?

The Nibblers wanted to confuse us.