The Top One Reason Religion Is Harmful

[The Silver Thong]

Most holidays in the west are based on religious beliefs but are hardly practiced as such. Christmas is about money and wal-mart loves it lol. Ok Christmas is about getting together with family and friends. I like Christmas always have always will, hope I get something good this year lol

Oh ya most of those Christian holidays were hijacked from the Pagans in order to force paganism out.

Edited December 9, 2009 by The Silver Thong

[Agent. Mulder]

Most holidays in the west are based on religious beliefs but are hardly practiced as such. Christmas is about money and wal-mart loves it lol. Ok Christmas is about getting together with family and friends. I like Christmas always have always will, hope I get something good this year lol

Oh ya most of those Christian holidays were hijacked from the Pagans in order to force paganism out.

true. but now chirstmas and easter are all about dumb old santa or a giant rabbit, and have little to do (it seems) with religion. but you do get the people who Actually know what its about and why its celebrated. its all about telling kids to be good at one time of the year, only because theyll be rewarded from a fat old man. im not even religious, and i get mad at the people and this holiday.

[Beckys_Mom]

Sorry for the delay on my replies Mr Walker..I have been rather busy.. a lot of orders are flooding in

Your first point is a factual observation. Your second point is a belief statement and it happens to be wrong.

I know one person personally who was cured (basically overnigh)t of a life threatening cancer. God told him he was going to remove the cancer before he did, and then did so between one medical observation and the next.

Doctors said it was spontaneous remission and one of the most remarkable and complete they had ever witnessed. But the patient knew better. God had explained what he was going to do, and then caried out that promise. Why would anyone actively deny or disbelieve after experiencing this?

One has to assume a position of disbelief to deny gods involvement in this physical healing.

If this where true and doctors confirmed it.. that he got no medical help what so ever.......we all would be reading about it on a news article.......or even heard of it on the news...but see thats not the case.therefore this little story is made up as far as I am concerned and far fetched...its my own opinion and what I have taken from it ..some would say BS..Im trying to be polite! I just feel there is a lot more to this story than you are telling,...but I don't care to get into it now..Im too busy...please understand

You see, again you are thinking in terms determined by your present knowledge. Yes that is how the world is now

Yes and it's the only real world I was speaking of when I 1st mentioned this to you... I spoke clearly of the real world..........you wrote me a novel for an answer on what your dream world is lol...

No. The same earth, but as it was in eden and will be according to the bible, on the new earth

Oh yea A place invented by man from a religious belief, one that no one can prove existed...........a dream world

Well that might be your perception I thiought you were asking if i would rather live in a world without science or a world without god. I answered honestly In a world where we are one with god science is not necessary. You can call it a dream world but your question was hypothetical and to anse\wer it onlty a hypothetical answer is possible.

I was dead clear on living in the real world as we all know it............I never implied anything about how you imagine it as heavens world.... no....I CLEARLY said the real world... reality Mr Walker.... so far you have not begun to grasp reality of the real world, all you have fed me is your idea of heaven built on your religious faith...

You're right. Being your daughter shell probably be like me and talk someone else(in my case my litle brother ) into trying it. I did provide a parachutemade from one of mums bed sheets but that didnt work out as well as i had hoped.

My daughter has a fear of heights Mr Walker, so she wouldnt dare do something dead stupid as to climb on top of a roof to fly off it thinking she can fly.....all because she is wearing a supergirl costume... she knows in reality she can't fly...I put her in touch with reality

Only way man can fly is with the help of science..............oh and yes movies like Superman and the boy who could fly <--all fictional...LMAO a lot of kids know that we can't fly without science

Anyhoo I am really busy..up to my eyes with customer orders...so it could be a while before I get a chance to reply again...hope you understand

PS Wish I lived in your dream world now...where cusomer oders flew out the window with no real efforts from me and all the cash pilled up....ohh to live in such a dream land LMAO...darn reality eh?

Bye for now Mr WalkerPS - Sorry I don't believe in your story of the guy who miraculously was cured of cancer over night with no medical help what so ever...........IMO there is a lot to that story than you are telling....for if it were real and true..we all would have heard of this miracle long before now

Catch y'all later..if I ever get free LMAO

*waves*

Edited December 9, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[Mr Walker]

If you went to a psychiatrist and you mentioned all this, they would most probably diagnose you as being "unstable" or "clinically mental".... Ghosts, Angels, God etc.... nothing you can offer beyond your own personal experience. All you have going for you is your own experience, which is fine. But lets consider one thing which i have asked numerous times from you. Being a former Atheist Mr Walker, God apparently manifested himself to you thus taking the leap into faith. You stated you would talk to your god since you speak to "it" on a regular basis, in showing itself to me. It has been now 2 months and God has not showed himself to me. I think it's logical to say that your personal experience was a figment of your own imagination.

This has not been fulfilled. Why? Perhaps God is a figment of your imagination. Your right in one thing. Humans live in a world of dreams and imagination. Your imagination has taking you into faith.

Dreams and Imagination is not evidence of anything. Its an illusion.

PS: I'm back. Had to head out on Business/Pleasure to Switzerland..... yes yes i love traveling.

Peace

T.I.G

Ive discused this in detail but of course like any sane person who is visited by god angels et al tone of the first things i did was get the best medical advice and check ups available The short answer is tha t i am both very sane and very neurologically healthy,

There is absolutely no evidence of any physiological/organic or psychological basis for any illness at all. And in fact i am not only highly (very highly) functional within society, I am very very sane. I am one of a minority of people in the world who has never suffered a moment of depression. I dont worry about anything, and i am almost perpetually "sinfully" happy. If I am ill, everybody should be, lol.

Naturally, i believe my state is the way every human could, and should be. I have never needed, since god reconnected with me, to take alcohol or drugs to alter, or enhance, my state of mind. I have physical control of every aspect of my being, from emotions to choices. Thus i take full responsibility for the choices i make and the consequences of those choice.

But of course i suspected this all the time. (that what i experience is real not imagined) What i experience is/are not any form of hallucination, because they interact with the physical environment in ways witnessed and recorded by a variety of other people. It is only the inner communications which are not acccessible to a third party. But if those communications provide accurate visions of the future, ways to protect myself, accurate medical diagnoses, helpful advice on my love life etc etc then who am i to worry.

The logic in your argument is flawed or inadequate

So i ask god to appear to you and he choses not to. Somehow in your mind this confirms god does not exist? I can think of many variables more likely to create the same result.

I am creative and imaginative but i am well aware of those aspects of self.

I am also extremely logical and "unemotional". To me emotions are primeval responses, inadequate for a being capable of destroying self and world. I have long learned to recognise, manipulate, and control emotions, so tha t i have no need to feel dangerous or negative ones, and can call on uplifting, liberating, and empowering ones as required. I suspect this is part of gods gift to me, but it might be a purely human attribute.

Humans consist of many parts and one does not necessarily affect, another especially if one is aware of the parts and keeps them integrated but distinct. It is even possible to contact and control /manipulate the subconscious elements of ones mind.

[Mr Walker]

name='Beckys_Mom' date='10 December 2009 - 03:03 AM' timestamp='1260379984' post='3201924']

Sorry for the delay on my replies Mr Walker..I have been rather busy.. a lot of orders are flooding in

[/b]

no problem Its the last few days of school for me so i have a bit more time than usual.

If this where true and doctors confirmed it.. that he got no medical help what so ever.......we all would be reading about it on a news article.......or even heard of it on the news...but see thats not the case.therefore this little story is made up as far as I am concerned and far fetched...its my own opinion and what I have taken from it ..some would say BS..Im trying to be polite! I just feel there is a lot more to this story than you are telling,...but I don't care to get into it now..Im too busy...please understand

And inside your mind, how exactly is your real world differnt from your dream world Inmy mind the two are of the same nature and quality. The mind does not differntiate.

Oh yea A place invented by man from a religious belief,one that no one can prove existed...........a dream world

Perhaps, or perhaps a reality inside my mind, which interconnects with external reality. That is how all of us live. As sapient beings we are given no choice in the matter.

I was dead clear on living in the real world as we all know it............I never implied anything about how you imagine it as heavens world.... no....I CLEARLY said the real world... reality Mr Walker.... so far you have not begun to grasp reality of the real world, all you have fed me is your idea of heaven built on your religious faith...

Then im sorry, because that is not how i understood it. I was talking about a real world with a real god in it, but to you that is imagination, for me it is not.

In such a world the conditions would be as i described but it would be very real. I cant be limited to your definition of one reality in arguing for a world where god is real

My daughter has a fear of heights Mr Walker, so she wouldnt dare do something dead stupid as to climb on top of a roof to fly off it thinking she can fly.....all because she is wearing a supergirl costume... she knows in reality she can't fly...I put her in touch with reality[/quote]

How sad. But there is hope for her if you let her wear a supergirl costume (especially if it has a cape)

Only way man can fly is with the help of science..............oh and yes movies like Superman and the boy who could fly <--all fictional...LMAO a lot of kids know that we can't fly without science

Maybe and maybe not. One things for sure. I am a lot more likely to fly than you if thats your attitude coz ill never give up trying.

Everytime the sun is shining and the cool wind is in my face i extend my arms, shut my eyes,concentrate real hard, run into the wind and give it my best shot. Even when not completely successful, the buzz is fantastic, and who knows. One day..........

[quote]Anyhoo I am really busy..up to my eyes with customer orders...so it could be a while before I get a chance to reply again...hope you understand

PS Wish I lived in your dream world now...where cusomer oders flew out the window with no real efforts from me and all the cash pilled up....ohh to live in such a dream land LMAO...darn reality eh?http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif' alt='tongue.gif'>

Bye for now Mr WalkerPS - Sorry I don't believe in your story of the guy who miraculously was cured of cancer over night with no medical help what so ever...........IMO there is a lot to that story than you are telling....for if it were real and true..we all would have heard of this miracle long before now

Catch y'all later..if I ever get free LMAO

*waves*

Just want to say take care. It sounds like you really need access to a bit of my dream world. It is there for the taking. Maybe you cant live in it entirely, but you can mesh it with your mundane world and make that a lot more fun.

Read calvin and hobbes comics for practical advice lol

Start with your real dreams and see what you can do with those.

Despite half an hours work i can t get this post to work as it should Hope you can work it out .

Edited December 10, 2009 by Mr Walker

[Beckys_Mom]

WOW I took a break from work....came in to read your reply and WOW..talk about a mess..no ofence but trying to read something all clumped together with both my posts and your posts clumped together, it was hard to know who said what..and what parts to reply too...I took one short break to try and read it...and another to reply LMAO Mr walker I have never seen you present posts like this in this way before..and you did say you had more time on your hands LOL...that was a nightmare to read who's was who? .........anyhoo....

Why would you hear about it? The doctors claimed it was spontaneous remission where a cancer can go backwards or into remission and sometimes disappear. the y told the bloke this was the most dramatic case they had expereinced but you can read about similar examples all the time So maybe it was just a coincidence?

Why wouldn't anyone hear about this so called miraculous recovery done over night like you stated previously.?. Absolutely people should get to hear of this medical miracle ...it don't happen that often..so yeaa let the people know and the doctors confirm it really did happen with no medical help what so ever

But see that didn't happen..did it? All I have here is your little story...coming from a mind filled with religion

Maybe But then why the visitation by the angel while the bloke thought he was still dying. It is the context around the physical event which makes this(to those who expereince it or chose to believe) a miracle First god/an angel makes a claim or promise of healing THEN th epromised physcial miracle comes to pass.

I underlined the key word you posted in there --> Chose..to believe...... Yes that is what this is..a matter of how one wished to Choose to believe ... if they are religious then yes if they believe they are dying, then their minds will create all sorts of illusions and its up to them what them to make a choice what they wish to believe in the end....

I know there are other possible explanations but you really have to work hard to disbelieve th emost obvious one.

Indeed you do know there are other possible explanations Mr Walker...but due to you holding a strong religious belief, you will over loook the other possible explainations and..focus on what you chose to believe and what you always beleived in - god / religion <--no way in hell you will ever put any other logical explainations ahead of what you wish to believe....................this is another reason as to why a story like this never made news to others... because it was all down a personal belief and not the entire story was told....all I am reading is one half of a story Mr Waler... just one half...

I dont judge or laugh at them.

Why would you? if you hold the same sort of beliefs as they do..then bob is very much your uncle in that dept ...eh Mr Walker? LOL

SOmetimes, however, strangers on the street come up to me and tell me their stories.

I don't get this... I mean, why you Mr Walker? aren't you just an avarage everyday school teacher kinna guy.. minding your own business ect? its not as if they all see you as some sort of prophet? or Austrailia's answer to the new messiah? LOL So why would total strangers, who have never met you before, all f a sudden strangers come up to you on the street Mr walker.. you did say strangers.. obviously meaning they dont know you and you don't know them... <--and now you want me to believe this too? LMAO no I don't think so some how

And inside your mind, how exactly is your real world differnt from your dream world Inmy mind the two are of the same nature and quality.

When anyone speaks of living in the real world, it's obvious what they mean... and no its not some sort of mind illusion Mr Walker... the real world is exactly what it says - Real World.... <---reality what we all live in today... not like your made up dream visions of heaven.. not the same and yes I was very clear on that

You want to know the difference between what the real world is and the dream world you spoke of?

ok....

BM's Real world... where there are dangerous animals living in it... were all the sick and dying don't just wake up all better with no medical help....where it rains, and cold weather exists... where man can't survive wihtout water or food

Mr Walkers dream world - Where thwere are no dangerous animals, no rain, man not needing water to survive, where no sick or dying people exist, where no one feels cold or hungry

Above are the two sets of worlds ...one is the real world that I have briefly described that we all live in.......the second is your dream world that we don't live in.............now does this answer your question? I can't believe I had to break it odnw but hey you did ask lol

How sad. But there is hope for her if you let her wear a supergirl costume (especially if it has a cape)

It's sad that I put my kid in touch with reality? really Mr Walker...If you were a man with a great sense of humour and we all noticed this, I would laugh at your statement.. but you rarely ever joke, you are aways serious............so you really do htink its so sad that I put my kid in touch with reality and she knows that she can't fly lol..........sad eh Mr Walker...Im glad that no kid under your supervision with a cape is near you...goodness knows what disaster would follow, especially if you bleieve a cape can make kids fly

Maybe and maybe not. One things for sure. I am a lot more likely to fly than you if thats your attitude coz ill never give up trying. Everytime the sun is shining and the cool wind is in my face i extend my arms, shut my eyes,concentrate real hard, run into the wind and give it my best shot. Even when not completely successful, the buzz is fantastic, and who knows. One day..........

Yeaaaaaaaaaaa umm let me know how that works out for ya mate

Picturing this vision -> A fully grown man in his 60's, standing on top of his roof, with a cape on, arms extended, eyes shut, neighbors looking out thinking what in the blue hell is that guy doing, someone call the fire fighters to get him down...and wheeeeeeeeeeeeee BOP... along comes your wife crying out- you silly old sausage..now I have to take you all the way to ER... what where you thinking?....Neighbors phone for the men in little white coats LMAO

PS I sure hope all of what you have tried to tell me was just somehting from your hidden sense of humour? please let it be just humour!!!!! LOL

Edited December 10, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[InnerSpace]

OMG, wipes tears...oh BM

[Beckys_Mom]

OMG, wipes tears...oh BM

Hee hee..well as he hasn't stated it was his humour..and didn't imply it..I am just hoping it was just humour LMAO I laughed at the part - I'm more likely to fly than you ........... ha ha that was funny....sure hope it was just his humour..if not ohh man !!

Can you imagine if I allowed my girl to climb all the way to the top of my house..with her Supergirl costume on...and let her flap her arms and leap off? the authorties would be all over it and I would be locked away for stupidity and if she was either badly harmed or killed.. I'd get a long prison sentence

I sure hope there are no stupid parents out there..

Edited December 10, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[fullywired]

Spontaneous Remission: The Body’s Miraculous Self-Healing May Not Be as Rare as Doctors Believe

Up to 19 percent of some cancers heal themselves, researchers discover. It baffles doctors — but it may be the key to understanding the power of the mind.

London, UK (PRWEB) January 16, 2006 -- Spontaneous remission — where the body miraculously heals itself without medical help — is far more common than doctors realize, a new report has discovered.

Spontaneous remission grabbed the headlines last November when AIDS victim Andrew Stimpson’s disease reversed itself.

But a look at the research on spontaneous healing shows that miracles are not as rare as we think — it's simply that there has been no way of collating and recording the events, according to a report from the investigative health journal What Doctors Don’t Tell You (WDDTY).

Doctors sporadically reported cases of spontaneous remissions (SRs) throughout the 20th century, but it was two non-medical researchers who, 15 years ago, took on the huge task of collating all the reports into one database. Caryle Hirshberg and the late Brendan O’Regan both worked at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS). The pair assembled 1860 SR cases, and they made some astonishing discoveries.

Nearly 7 per cent of all cancers involving the digestive organs or bone or soft tissues spontaneously cure themselves. Some 12 per cent of cancers involving the skin and the lymph nodes heal themselves, and an astounding 19 per cent of cancers - nearly one in five - involving the genitourinary organs undergo spontaneous cures. Some are rare conditions such as Addison’s disease (adrenal-gland breakdown), but even common ones such as hypothyroidism or blocked arteries can ‘miraculously’ disappear.

In the 1960s, doctors were surprised to discover that up to 90 per cent of patients with ‘early diabetes’ were completely clear two years later - with no treatment at all. And most of the patients hadn’t lost any weight either.

WDDTY researchers found that one in 20 cases of infectious and parasitic diseases, problems of the circulatory and endocrine systems, and metabolic and immune disorders can self-heal, as does one in every 25 nervous system or mental disorders, and problems involving the sense organs.

What’s more, the number of cases is probably vastly underreported. One Dutch study found little difficulty in finding SR cases, raising the question of “whether the phenomenon of SR is as rare as is reported in the literature”.

The WDDTY report also reveals the powerful role the mind plays in the spontaneous reversal of illness. Perhaps the best-known and most dramatic example of mind-over-matter was the case of ‘Mr Wright’, whose terminal cancer was completely cured - twice - by nothing more than his belief in the treatment. On one occasion his physician injected water into his veins, telling him that it was an amazing new cancer cure. His belief in his physician’s words was enough for the cancer to disappear.

Although extreme, it’s just one instance of the so-called ‘placebo effect’, where belief in a medicine is enough to cure, which is only now becoming understood through the burgeoning new science of psychoneuroimmunology (PNI). Strong biochemical connections between the brain and immune system have been found, explaining how thoughts and emotions can affect the body.

PNI research has legitimised the mind’s role in SRs such as the so-called ‘miracle cures’ at places like Lourdes in France. In its 120-year existence as a shrine, Lourdes has produced thousands of claimed cures, of which about 60 truly defy medical/scientific explanation.

Other well-documented cases of cancer SRs involve major changes in the patient’s attitude towards life. One researcher looked at 18 cases of cancer regression and noted “a marked favourable psychosocial change one to eight weeks before the shrinkage in their tumours”. These changes included religious conversion, reconciliation with a long-hated mother, a sudden marriage and the death of a long-hated husband.

http://www.treatmentcenter.co.uk

[InnerSpace]

Hee hee..well as he hasn't stated it was his humour..and didn't imply it..I am just hoping it was just humour LMAO I laughed at the part - I'm more likely to fly than you ........... ha ha that was funny....sure hope it was just his humour..if not ohh man !!

Can you imagine if I allowed my girl to climb all the way to the top of my house..with her Supergirl costume on...and let her flap her arms and leap off? the authorties would be all over it and I would be locked away for stupidity and if she was either badly harmed or killed.. I'd get a long prison sentence

I sure hope there are no stupid parents out there..

They'd put you away for sure...oi. I laughed so hard there for a moment with the humor and all but, wow... I had to rub my eyes and refocus... very surreal

Hopefully' Mr Walker (a teacher) 'was' joking around...?

*winks @ MW*

My mind was immediately taken back to Season 6 of House, episode 1,"Broken"... when that young man wore a cape, and thought he could fly.

House encouraged his fantasy, but didn't think the man really took such beliefs seriously.

He ended up jumping off a parking deck, lucky to have survived. Did you ever see that episode...?

<snipped for space and emphasis>

Spontaneous Remission: The Body’s Miraculous Self-Healing May Not Be as Rare as Doctors Believe

Up to 19 percent of some cancers heal themselves, researchers discover. It baffles doctors — but it may be the key to understanding the power of the mind.

London, UK (PRWEB) January 16, 2006 -- Spontaneous remission — where the body miraculously heals itself without medical help — is far more common than doctors realize, a new report has discovered.

The WDDTY report also reveals the powerful role the mind plays in the spontaneous reversal of illness. Perhaps the best-known and most dramatic example of mind-over-matter was the case of ‘Mr Wright’, whose terminal cancer was completely cured - twice - by nothing more than his belief in the treatment. On one occasion his physician injected water into his veins, telling him that it was an amazing new cancer cure. His belief in his physician’s words was enough for the cancer to disappear.

Although extreme, it’s just one instance of the so-called ‘placebo effect’, where belief in a medicine is enough to cure, which is only now becoming understood through the burgeoning new science of psychoneuroimmunology (PNI). Strong biochemical connections between the brain and immune system have been found, explaining how thoughts and emotions can affect the body.

http://www.treatmentcenter.co.uk

Excellent find FW...

[momentarylapseofreason]

They'd put you away for sure...oi. I laughed so hard there for a moment with the humor and all but, wow... I had to rub my eyes and refocus... very surreal

Hopefully' Mr Walker (a teacher) 'was' joking around...?

*winks @ MW*

My mind was immediately taken back to Season 6 of House, episode 1,"Broken"... when that young man wore a cape, and thought he could fly.

House encouraged his fantasy, but didn't think the man really took such beliefs seriously.

He ended up jumping off a parking deck, lucky to have survived. Did you ever see that episode...?

<snipped for space and emphasis>

Excellent find FW...

It's so amazing isn't it?

I also believe sex can heal (with a partner you enjoy/feel good about), maybe not cancer though.

I noticed a hitch though, in Europe when I became aware that some docs were prescribing placebos to me, they do this often because they believe these work, then they stopped working. I started suspecting , and would ask them: "you prescribed me a placebo didn't you?" as soon as I knew (or just became suspicious-before I knew for sure) they quit working. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss. I wish I would have not known or been so curious.

Edited December 11, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[Mr Walker]

name='Beckys_Mom' date='11 December 2009 - 01:25 AM' timestamp='1260460506' post='3203003']

WOW I took a break from work....came in to read your reply and WOW..talk about a mess..no ofence but trying to read something all clumped together with both my posts and your posts clumped together, it was hard to know who said what..and what parts to reply too...I took one short break to try and read it...and another to reply LMAO Mr walker I have never seen you present posts like this in this way before..and you did say you had more time on your hands LOL...that was a nightmare to read who's was who? .........anyhoo....

Yea spent a long time trying to format it but it simply would not break into quotes and replies. i tried highlighting your bits and it highlighted everything. Have no idea why.

Why wouldn't anyone hear about this so called miraculous recovery done over night like you stated previously.?. Absolutely people should get to hear of this medical miracle ...it don't happen that often..so yeaa let the people know and the doctors confirm it really did happen with no medical help what so ever

See fullywired posts. It happens a lot. But it is the context of the angels visit and message which might be considered unusual.

But see that didn't happen..did it? All I have here is your little story...coming from a mind filled with religion

LOL i am one of the least "religious" people you will find (and i know a few)

I underlined the key word you posted in there --> Chose..to believe...... Yes that is what this is..a matter of how one wished to Choose to believe ... if they are religious then yes if they believe they are dying, then their minds will create all sorts of illusions and its up to them what them to make a choice what they wish to believe in the end....

True but you missed the other bit of that sentence; "those who EXPERIENCE it." When you are part of a miracle it is not belief but knowledge. But some people believe in miracles despite never experiencing them.

Indeed you do know there are other possible explanations Mr Walker...but due to you holding a strong religious belief, you will over loook the other possible explainations and..focus on what you chose to believe and what you always beleived in - god / religion <--no way in hell you will ever put any other logical explainations ahead of what you wish to believe....................this is another reason as to why a story like this never made news to others... because it was all down a personal belief and not the entire story was told....all I am reading is one half of a story Mr Waler... just one half...

Then that is unfortunate. The way i see it is that I am able to accept a range of possibilities . A person who actively chosses to disbelieve, is not able to do this, and must restrict their opinion only to that which is known.

Why would you? if you hold the same sort of beliefs as they do..then bob is very much your uncle in that dept ...eh Mr Walker? LOL

All it means is that if one meets a litle green man one is also likely to be less skeptical about other things like angels and god becuase one knows the world is more than it appears.

I don't get this... I mean, why you Mr Walker? aren't you just an avarage everyday school teacher kinna guy.. minding your own business ect? its not as if they all see you as some sort of prophet? or Austrailia's answer to the new messiah? LOL So why would total strangers, who have never met you before, all f a sudden strangers come up to you on the street Mr walker.. you did say strangers.. obviously meaning they dont know you and you don't know them... <--and now you want me to believe this too? LMAO no I don't think so some how

I dont know. Ive never been able to comprehend this. i have logical extrapolations and possibilities based on logic, but no knowledge.

But remember its not just me. There are lots of people like me about, and even a few on UM

Most peole dont discuss such expereinces in the real world for obvious reasons.

When anyone speaks of living in the real world, it's obvious what they mean... and no its not some sort of mind illusion Mr Walker... the real world is exactly what it says - Real World.... <---reality what we all live in today... not like your made up dream visions of heaven.. not the same and yes I was very clear on that

But i dont necessarilty accept that the world i described is NOT real.(or that it was not and will not be again.)

You want to know the difference between what the real world is and the dream world you spoke of?

ok....

BM's Real world... where there are dangerous animals living in it... were all the sick and dying don't just wake up all better with no medical help....where it rains, and cold weather exists... where man can't survive wihtout water or food

Mr Walkers dream world - Where thwere are no dangerous animals, no rain, man not needing water to survive, where no sick or dying people exist, where no one feels cold or hungry

Above are the two sets of worlds ...one is the real world that I have briefly described that we all live in.......the second is your dream world that we don't live in.............now does this answer your question? I can't believe I had to break it odnw but hey you did ask lol

My question is, how does your mind make clear to you which world is real? Imagined and real experiences are stored exactly the same in your mind. Thus i can live in a real world of my own within the real world of the objective universe.

In my mind i do not ever need to be sad angry depressed etc. I can always choose to be happy and empowered. no person canhurt me or make me do anything i dont choose to. Thus my real world is a wonderful place. And i work to make it even better.

It's sad that I put my kid in touch with reality? really Mr Walker...If you were a man with a great sense of humour and we all noticed this, I would laugh at your statement.. but you rarely ever joke, you are aways serious............so you really do htink its so sad that I put my kid in touch with reality and she knows that she can't fly lol..........sad eh Mr Walker...Im glad that no kid under your supervision with a cape is near you...goodness knows what disaster would follow, especially if you bleieve a cape can make kids fly

Both humour and some sadness in this. Of course you should teach your children reality, but not neccesarily let reality limit or define them. Today kids are increasingly imprisoned by their parents fears, and lack of dreams. Children need to involve creative risktaking in their play. Today we dont even let kids play on play grounds without soft fall, let alone climb trees swing from ropes and swim in water holes.

Every human needs to balance risk and reward, and children require challenges to grow their physical and emotional skills.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaa umm let me know how that works out for ya mate

It doesnt matter if i ever fly, the fun, and the thrill, is in the trying, and always believing i tis possible.

Picturing this vision -> A fully grown man in his 60's, standing on top of his roof, with a cape on, arms extended, eyes shut, neighbors looking out thinking what in the blue hell is that guy doing, someone call the fire fighters to get him down...and wheeeeeeeeeeeeee BOP... along comes your wife crying out- you silly old sausage..now I have to take you all the way to ER... what where you thinking?....Neighbors phone for the men in little white coats LMAO

Dont be silly. I always use my power of invisibility first.

The last time i climbed on the roof was to ring a bell to get peoples attention to make a speech for my mums 80th birthday part.

But i find it sad and an indictment on our society that this is probably how people would react. A roof is a wonderful place and gives one a physical and emotional new perspective on life.

Why should it be strange that anyone would climb on one and imagine flying from it.?

PS I sure hope all of what you have tried to tell me was just somehting from your hidden sense of humour? please let it be just humour!!!!! LOL

I model my life on calvin. I'll let you guess whether i have a sense of húmour.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Mr Walker

[InnerSpace]

It's so amazing isn't it?

I noticed a hitch though, in Europe when I became aware that some docs were prescribing placebos to me, they do this often because they believe these work, then they stopped working. I started suspecting , and would ask them: "you prescribed me a placebo didn't you?" as soon as I knew (or just became suspicious-before I knew for sure) they quit working. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss. I wish I would have not known or been so curious.

It certainly is amazing, MLOR.

Also, placebos are quite commonly prescribed in the States, but not a very ethical practice, imo.

Placebo Prescriptions - When Your Doctor Fakes You Out

"Has your doctor ever prescribed "Obecalp" or "Cebocap" to calm your headache, reduce your stomach upset, or relieve your pain? If so, did it help you?

In fact, Obecalp and Cebocap are placebos -- fake drugs. Obecalp is simply the word placebo spelled backwards. Cebocap is a name of a pill made from lactose. Lactose is sugar.

This week, University of Chicago researchers issued the results of a study showing that 45% of the internists surveyed (all Chicago area family doctors) have prescribed placebos for their patients. Presumably then, those patients took the placebo pills for whatever their complaint was.

That means they took the prescription for a fake medicine, went to a pharmacist, paid for the prescription, went home, and hopefully complied with a bogus treatment." Source

I also believe sex can heal (with a partner you enjoy/feel good about), maybe not cancer though.

quite factual.

Marvin Gaye confirms as well.

[The Infidel Guy]

you do know that most holidays in the usa are religious holidays. so you can no longer celebrate them. send me your christmas presents. you wouldn't enjoy them anyways since the idea is religious based, even if you go back to the original holiday.

I don't live in the U.S.....

I don't celebrate Easter or any other religious event.

I also never celebrated Christmas being a ex-Muslim and all...... however you don't need to be religious to give Christmas presents. I give because i can, my financial situation and my lifestyle living provides me with the means to give. Also the fact that i also get a lot of presents from friends. So it is only fair i return the nice gesture.

I couldn't careless if Christmas is religiously based. I most certainly don't celebrate Christmas on a religious scale. When Christmas comes we have a bbq with friends, beers, the pool (as it is summer in Australia) and just exchange presents and have a great time. Religion is not necessary in on my Christmas holiday.

Peace

T.I.G

[fullywired]

See fullywired posts. It happens a lot. But it is the context of the angels visit and message which might be considered unusual.

Might ?? I would consider it incredible

fullywired

[Beckys_Mom]

Yea spent a long time trying to format it but it simply would not break into quotes and replies. i tried highlighting your bits and it highlighted everything. Have no idea why.

See fullywired posts. It happens a lot. But it is the context of the angels visit and message which might be considered unusual.

I'm sure a lot of religious people convince themselves it was all god and block out other possible reasons

Then that is unfortunate. The way i see it is that I am able to accept a range of possibilities .

Range? You didnt bother to list a range..all you did was point to god!! Range my foot LOL

A person who actively chosses to disbelieve, is not able to do this, and must restrict their opinion only to that which is known.

Ohhh riiight.. so I guess non believers have never turned over to god after they thought god saved them then eh?

I dont know. Ive never been able to comprehend this. i have logical extrapolations and possibilities based on logic, but no knowledge.

If a bunch of strangers came up to me on the streets out of nowhere, to tell me about their godly experiences, I would think they were freaks or in need of serious help, so I would throw them some change and tell them to find a shelter..and direct them to the nearest doctors clinic

But remember its not just me. There are lots of people like me about,

I know LOL

But i dont necessarilty accept that the world i described is NOT real

Well I guess some people like to live in their heads..and dream on lol

My question is, how does your mind make clear to you which world is real?

Well I know the little day dreams I hold are only in my head and not realistic ..If I didnt know and couldn't tell the difference, I guess I would be rocking back and forth in a padded cell by now LOL

In my mind i do not ever need to be sad angry depressed etc. I can always choose to be happy and empowered. no person canhurt me or make me do anything i dont choose to.

Same here, then reality strikes, and I react with what I hear and see, if it makes me happy, then I'm happy, if something I hear or see makes me sad, then I get sad...or funny posts like yours.. I laugh...those are emotions we cant control..they happen, run with the flow.. you can choke back IE tears, but doesn't mean the sec a loved one has died, in your head you can be happy... not remotely possible

If I was like this, living in a lil dream world where I am always happy and nothing can harm me or annoy me and it a world I dream up, then my life in the real world must really suck for me to do that...

Both humour and some sadness in this. Of course you should teach your children reality, but not neccesarily let reality limit or define them. Today kids are increasingly imprisoned by their parents fears, and lack of dreams. Children need to involve creative risktaking in their play. Today we dont even let kids play on play grounds without soft fall, let alone climb trees swing from ropes and swim in water holes.

Every human needs to balance risk and reward, and children require challenges to grow their physical and emotional skills

I allow my kid to be a kid... she uses her imagination all the time, creates her own games, and invites me to join in, we both play fairies ect.... because its SAFE...she even belives in Santa coming ect.. like any normal child at her age would.........but then there are real life dangers (yes I said real life it mean real life and not something inside someones head)

Real life – I teach her not to do the following

Matches – dangerous, she knows not to play with matches.....

(your personal fav) - Jumping off my roof top arms flapping - she knows she can be killed or seriously hurt

Bike – She knows never to drive her bike near busy roads, she knows cars are dangerous...but I still keep a close eye on her regardless

Roads again she knows (for I have it drummed into her) that the roads are not a safe place to play

Sharp objects – My 4 year old knows never to play with them..I still keep a close eye on her

Now if I wanted my Becky to use her imagination..and do it your way as you described before I would convince her that she was some kind of invincible super girl that cant get hurt ..thus leading to her........

.........Playing with sharp objects cutting herself to pieces...screaming the place down in agony!!

.........Trying to race the cars on the busy roads and on the freeway causing accidents!!

.........Setting herself and my house on fire from playing with matches!!

........Winding up seriously injured or killed from leaping off the top of my roof while chanting the Superman theme tune da \da da da daaaaaaaaaa *SPLAT*!!!

........Where would I wind up? Well ether dead from my house fire or in some nut house for the rest of my natural life...judge would toss the book at me

It doesnt matter if i ever fly, the fun, and the thrill, is in the trying, and always believing i tis possible.

Ohh knock yourself out mate...let me know how it all goes....but tell me something Mr Walker

Did you ever play basket ball? Shoot hoops? And when you shot some good hoops, someone cried out – Mr Walker I BELIEVE YOU CAN FLY...............YOU GOT GAME MAN <-and you took it seriously? LMAO just kidding

Dont be silly. I always use my power of invisibility first.

Shame you didn’t use it on the boards LMAO I am just messing around.. lol I couldn’t resist

But i find it sad and an indictment on our society that this is probably how people would react.

Ack thats just normal people ..with the normal reactions to dangerous things.. If they see some muppet standing on a roof top flapping his arms and is about to leap off...they will react with shock horror... ignore it Mr Walker.. you just concentrate on flapping your arms and flying.. one day eh??

Why should it be strange that anyone would climb on one and imagine flying from it.?

Imagination is one thing...but climbing up to attempt it is another..but hey let me know how it all goes for ya... if you can make it back in one piece

Edited December 12, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[Mr Walker]

Might ?? I would consider it incredible

fullywired

Which is a legitimate and rational BELIEF position for one without any contravening evidence.

Evidence, even if it is personal, naturally makes it a lot less incredible.

[Mr Walker]

name='Beckys_Mom' date='12 December 2009 - 12:20 PM' timestamp='1260586242' post='3205028']

I'm sure a lot of religious people convince themselves it was all god and block out other possible reasons

But i wasnt religiouss. You are correct in some cases but on the other hand why would an open minded person reject out of hand , god as one possibility ?

Range? You didnt bother to list a range..all you did was point to god!! Range my foot LOL

If you read thre history of my posts /expereinces you will see tha tonly over time did a range of ongoing expereinces lead mre logicall yto consider "god" as a possibility It was some time before ongoing communications confirmed this

Ohhh riiight.. so I guess non believers have never turned over to god after they thought god saved them then eh?

Im sure some have, an d others have lost faith in him because of personal tragedies or disappointments.

If a bunch of strangers came up to me on the streets out of nowhere, to tell me about their godly experiences, I would think they were freaks or in need of serious help, so I would throw them some change and tell them to find a shelter..and direct them to the nearest doctors clinic

Ah but inm a lot softer than you are. I even give away my lunch money to hungry kids

I know LOL

Well I guess some people like to live in their heads..and dream on lol

Realistically , we all live in our heads as much as in the physicla world Thats because we are thinking creatures.

Well I know the little day dreams I hold are only in my head and not realistic ..If I didnt know and couldn't tell the difference, I guess I would be rocking back and forth in a padded cell by now LOL

Not necessarily, You might be sitting on a beach in some island paradise sipping rum and soaking up the sun.

Same here, then reality strikes, and I react with what I hear and see, if it makes me happy, then I'm happy, if something I hear or see makes me sad, then I get sad...or funny posts like yours.. I laugh...those are emotions we cant control..they happen, run with the flow.. you can choke back IE tears, but doesn't mean the sec a loved one has died, in your head you can be happy... not remotely possible

I tis possible to be in control of all your emotions. i dont know if its good or not but it is possible and it makes your life safer.

If I was like this, living in a lil dream world where I am always happy and nothing can harm me or annoy me and it a world I dream up, then my life in the real world must really suck for me to do that...

But the two worlds are the same so why would this be?

I allow my kid to be a kid... she uses her imagination all the time, creates her own games, and invites me to join in, we both play fairies ect.... because its SAFE...she even belives in Santa coming ect.. like any normal child at her age would.........but then there are real life dangers (yes I said real life it mean real life and not something inside someones head)

Real life – I teach her not to do the following

Matches – dangerous, she knows not to play with matches.....

(your personal fav) - Jumping off my roof top arms flapping - she knows she can be killed or seriously hurt

Sounds like emminemtly sensible parenting to me. How about if she used a parachute?

Bike – She knows never to drive her bike near busy roads, she knows cars are dangerous...but I still keep a close eye on her regardless

Roads again she knows (for I have it drummed into her) that the roads are not a safe place to play

Sharp objects – My 4 year old knows never to play with them..I still keep a close eye on her

Now if I wanted my Becky to use her imagination..and do it your way as you described before I would convince her that she was some kind of invincible super girl that cant get hurt ..thus leading to her........

.........Playing with sharp objects cutting herself to pieces...screaming the place down in agony!!

.........Trying to race the cars on the busy roads and on the freeway causing accidents!!

.........Setting herself and my house on fire from playing with matches!!

........Winding up seriously injured or killed from leaping off the top of my roof while chanting the Superman theme tune da \da da da daaaaaaaaaa *SPLAT*!!!

........Where would I wind up? Well ether dead from my house fire or in some nut house for the rest of my natural life...judge would toss the book at me

Ohh knock yourself out mate...let me know how it all goes....but tell me something Mr Walker

Did you ever play basket ball? Shoot hoops? And when you shot some good hoops, someone cried out – Mr Walker I BELIEVE YOU CAN FLY...............YOU GOT GAME MAN <-and you took it seriously? LMAO just kidding

Shame you didn’t use it on the boards LMAO I am just messing around.. lol I couldn’t resist

Ack thats just normal people ..with the normal reactions to dangerous things.. If they see some muppet standing on a roof top flapping his arms and is about to leap off...they will react with shock horror... ignore it Mr Walker.. you just concentrate on flapping your arms and flying.. one day eh??

Imagination is one thing...but climbing up to attempt it is another..but hey let me know how it all goes for ya... if you can make it back in one piece

Wifes gone to sit in car ready for a drive so ill have to finish this later

[fullywired]

Which is a legitimate and rational BELIEF position for one without any contravening evidence.

Evidence, even if it is personal, naturally makes it a lot less incredible.

Evidence is the operative word here ,What you consider evidence is not considered evidence by others

fullywired

[Mr Walker]

Evidence is the operative word here ,What you consider evidence is not considered evidence by others

fullywired

I dont accept that proposition. If i see a platypus, then that is evidence that it exists. It remains personal evidence, but it is evidence for the existence of a platypus. There are many personal evidences which are logical, scientifically acceptable, and yet not transferrable to a third person. You are speaking of evidences used to convince another , but to convince one rational, sane, person of any reality there needs to be a set of evidences available to that person.

Those evidences can be of the same nature as ones which are commonly perceived, yet apply only to an individual or a set of individuals. Thats just the way much of the world is.

In the experiences i relate, there are many sets of evidence, first that the experience was an external objective occurence, and secondly that it is unlikely to have a known scientific explanation.

I never attribute as real anything which does not have at least some forms of external verification, but i do attribute a different explanation for those occurences than others might becuase of the long and ongoing contextual nature of the experiences.

I dont know how you, or another, might react or respond if exactly the same things happened to you, so i cant comment on that, but i dont believe that you reject all realities within your own expereince which are not independently confirmed.

No one who spends any time by them selves could stay sane if they did not know that what happened to them was real, regardless of whether it was witnessed or not.

You steadfastly continue to reject the truth of this for reasons within your own world view. I cant blame you for that , but you are incorrect.

Lets take a non religious example. Suppose one bright starry night, miles from anyone else you saw a ufo land. It left marks in the soil which were there the next morning but had blown away wbefore you could get anyone back to the location. Suppose a human looking being came out of the ship and spoke to you mind to mind, telling you its story.Let us further suppose it told you some things about yourself tha tyou did not know but turned out to be true.

Would you accept the reality of you rown senses, or would you doubt them ANd then ask yourself why. Wha tis creating in you the rejection of an expereince tha tis quite possible even if highly improbable Why is your belief overwhelming the acceptance of your perceptions Why not trust those senses?

Or perhaps i have you wrong. Perhaps you would be able to accept the reality of such an experience. Perhaps it is merely the religious overtones in my experiences which create an overwhelming reaction of disbelief.

For me, god is not a religious entity any more than another human because such an entity would rely on faith or belief To me god is a physical facet of the known universe and something which must be lived with, accomodated and responded to like all physical forces.

I can understand why people would build religious beliefs around it, but for me that would be like building a religious belief around my wife or motor car.

Im happy, as an adult, to adopt a christian persona because i think it is a very appropriate and workable one, but that does not mean i am religious in terms of faith or belief.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Mr Walker

[Beckys_Mom]

I know this reply is really late...but for several days I was snowed under with work load...I simply had no time to sit and post on a forum....I am only taking a break now that I have finish a load of work..but will be busy soon enough..i thought I may as well finish off were I was with you LOL... ......speaking of snowed under.. we over here in Ireland are.....it has snowed non stop for the past 4 - 5 days...I think we are in for a white christmas whoohoooo

Anyhoo....

If you read thre history of my posts /expereinces you will see tha tonly over time did a range of ongoing expereinces lead mre logicall yto consider "god" as a possibility It was some time before ongoing communications confirmed this

You listed your experiences allright, but never once have you ever listed other possible explainations Mr Walker..you only ever point to the one - GOD..nothing more

Ah but inm a lot softer than you are. I even give away my lunch money to hungry kids

So you implying that I wouldnt hand a hungry kid money? If you are and I said IF,I suggest you think again mate!!................as for stanger coming up to you on the streets to talk about the experiences, I do not believe a word of this Mr Walker....... only times strangers approach anyone on the streets is if they are - Handing out the big issue (charity news paper)... Begging for money...... looking for directions.........or asking the time...........that is it........not all of a sudden out of nowhere people you have never seen before all rush up to talk to you on the streets aobut religion and experiences I highly doubt that...but I guess some like to live in their heads...go figure LOL

Realistically , we all live in our heads as much as in the physicla world Thats because we are thinking creatures.

No we don't.......we all day dream yes but realistically we think and act differently........ I mean IE - In your head you can fly without wings... but if you jumped off a cliff, fact is you will crash and splatter... so living out of your head is dangerous

You seem so confused with - Reality and Day Dreaming Mr Walker..... People don't live out of the day dreams in their heads...not if the day dreams aresnt fitting with reality...

IE - Lets say in your head you are invisible to everyone........but then comes reality and you walk down the street, a bunch of mad strangers come up and say - hey man wanna hear about my experiences? <----------------obviously ref to reality (real world) you arent invisible...only in your head you are

So you can't live out of the day dreams you have created in your head...........unless they fit with the real world...you always get these two confused...you teach engish lessons.. what must you tell a pupil if they ask you what is the difference between reality and fantasy? what do you tell them?

From your previous posts on how you see your own real world where - Man cant go hungry, no cold nasty weather, no rain, man doesnt need water to survive, where you cant get sick, no dangerous animals ect.. <---not the real world as we know it........just your own imagination day dreams..and you class it as reality...that Mr Walker is fantasy......not reality...I cannot believe I needed to explain this to a school teacher, and I am not being ignorant, I am serious...

Not necessarily, You might be sitting on a beach in some island paradise sipping rum and soaking up the sun.

Yes in reality I would be sitting rocking back and forth in a white padded cell...pretending im on an island LMAO... there is a huge difference between pretending and living in your head with fantasy and the real world - reality........shame you havent grasped that yet

I tis possible to be in control of all your emotions. i dont know if its good or not but it is possible and it makes your life safer

Wrong, completely wrong Mr Walker......... IE if a loved one dies on you.. you cannot control your sad emotions.. you can put on a front yes, but deep down you will feel sad and its something you won't be able to control...you simply can't control feeling them...

If you were to show you were so happy because in your head you so want to be after hearing a loved one has passed away and deep down you felt so very happy <--- people wouldnt think you were in touch with god at all......people would think there was something seriously wrong with you

Another thing Mr Walker...about morals....you claim they all come from the bible.. that is wrong..I sat and thought more about this, and recall back when I was just a kid and I had no real understanding of what the word - Incest meant...all I know is, that there was no way in hell I would have kissed my brother, I wouldnt even take my brothers hand crossing the street as a kid...the very thoughts of it made me shudder..and no way was I ever feeling the same for the rest of my family..eeww <--to me thats what it felt like eeeww and yet I never heard about incest back then, all I knew was my brother was icky and even if he touched my food, I would have kicked up a fuss and refused to eat it LMAO.

.................so it was plain to see that even though I never heard of the word and meaning of incest back as a child.. I still didint believe it was morallly right..........naturally felt it was morally wrong...like I said, long before I even heard of the word, let alone know it was taught as wrong in the bible. Its the same with kissing other girls, I wouldnt have done it, because naturally to me I was only ever keen on boys, to me it wasn't natural to kiss a girl...but even so, I now do not believe that is sinful...just pointing out how i felt naturally as a kid..and how those things came naturally to me before i ever gained any understanding from a bible and further more, my parents never taught me it either, like i said, those feelings of what felt morally right and wrong at that time came directly from me and only me

Another thing is... man that wrote the bible and wrote down what was good ect... that itself is proof that back then long before your bible ever was written, they obviously lived by those good morals...so that too is solid proof that these morals would have still been here if the bible was written or not

Edited December 21, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[Mr Walker]

BM i respect your views and it is you who have to live by them. I could not live by them just as you could not live by mine

Thus, for you, i am not going to be critical of the way you think or see the world even though i could not live that way.

My world, since childhood, has encompassed a greater reality than the mundane existence of many people. Thus i see the world as a very differnt place to you In my real world, ghosts angels and god are real physical things and people have abilities which as yet are not accepted by or explained by science.

In my world this is not fantasy but reality. In my world, since i was a child, my mind has controlled my emotions; first to elieminate fear, and later to eliminate most negative feelings. This can be done and taught without any magic or mysticism, using pure scientific knowledge on the nature of thought emotion instinct and behavioural responses. But a mystical element, as used in the east, does offer an alternate approach .

What i call the holy spirit is a real physical force which can enter and change a person and give them abilities not possess by most people. Others might call this cosmic consciousness but it is just as real what ever it is called.

The more one has knowledge of the physiology and psychology of the brain and the nature of thought and sapience, the more one becomes aware of how complex it is, and how much of what humans are is determined from that inner world.

The more one has knowledge of science the more one realises wha tis potentially possible According to physics it is possible for a man to walk through a solid wall. it is jus thighly unlikely. Whether a man choses never to try this, or continually to try to walk through walls actualy speaks to the nature of the man rather than the nature of reality.

I am a man who believes he can fly. I have flown by plane, glider, hang glider, and paraglider in the wakiong world. In the dream world i have flown by every means imaginable ANd in the world between the waking and the sleeping, i have flown around the world, and all over the world, to see and visit peole and places through the power of thought alone.

None of this affects my sanity , my relationship to the physical world, or my work and relationships with other humans, except to add different dimensiond to all these things.