[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[TheSearcher]

.......

I am afraid Neferti are just too close to the others to be called "out of context". Any views on Ipuwer and Akkad?

What would you mean by Neferti being to close to others, I'm not following. All I can say is that it is a classical piece of propaganda of the ancient times in Egypt, it has all the hallmarks for it and is even historically used that way. The fact that it contains parts and bits from another poem or writing is in itself not surprising. Plagiarism is not a modern sickness after all It must have occurred to you, that the Neferti text must have borrowed from other more ancient pieces? No?

I do think the papyrus itself and the story on it to be genuine, it refers in my opinion to the Thera event, as the papyrus is dated ca. 1850 BCE-1600 BCE and the Thera event is dated to ca. 1650-1600 BCE (the latter is dated according to dendrochronology and radiocarbon dating). The dates seem to fit together.

Now here is the potential problem I kinda spotted later and the gods know I usually am not a conspiracy theorist at all.

The OLB was allegedly given to Eelco Verwijs by Cornelis Over de Linden in 1867. The Ipuwer papyrus was purchased from Giovanni Anastasi, the Swedish consul to Egypt, in 1828 and housed in the Dutch National Museum of Antiquities in Leiden. Jean-François Champollion made the complete decipherment of the Egyptian hieroglyphs by the 1820.

Over de Linden, Verwijs and Haverschmidt, were all three learned men, having through Verwijs access to most literary works and publications. Could it be that they decyphered part of the papyrus themselves and decided to use it in their book? I mean it's, as far as hoaxes go, quite elaborate, so I'm sure they would have gone the extra mile.

This said, I'll be honest, I only saw the date correlation after my girlfriend pointed it out to me. And yes, I find it just a bit too much of a coincidence.

OK, Akkad, well not a lot to say about it, as most things have already been posted. The Akkadian empire did collapse between 2200 BCE and 2400 BCE. This said, it has been surmised that the 4.2 kiloyear event (as Puzzler calls it), was caused by a Bond Event, which is a climate fluctuation occurring every ≈1,470 ± 500 years throughout the Holocene.

Here is a list of the bond events as far as they can be traceable.

* ≈1,400 BP (Bond event 1) — roughly correlates with the Migration Period pessimum (450–900 AD)

* ≈2,800 BP (Bond event 2) — roughly correlates with the Iron Age Cold Epoch (900–300 BC)

* ≈4,200 BP (Bond event 3) — correlates with the 4.2 kiloyear event (correlates with the collapse of the Akkadian Empire and the end of the Egyptian Old Kingdom)

* ≈5,900 BP (Bond event 4) — correlates with the 5.9 kiloyear event (correlates with the end of the Pre Pottery Neolithic B, and the arrival of nomadic pastoralists in the Middle East)

* ≈8,100 BP (Bond event 5) — correlates with the 8.2 kiloyear event

* ≈9,400 BP (Bond event 6) — correlates with the Erdalen event of glacier activity in Norway, as well as with a cold event in China.

* ≈10,300 BP (Bond event 7) — unnamed event (correlates with the beginnings of grain agriculture in the Middle East)

* ≈11,100 BP (Bond event 8) — coincides with the transition from the Younger Dryas to the boreal

Now I find the correlation is very interesting, to say the least, because it seems to provide another reason for the collapse of the Akkadian empire. I'm no expert, of course, but this looks like food for some serious rethinking of the theory. This even fits better than the Burckle impact to be honest, at least in my eyes.

I found something but this is not quite the quote I had in mind:

New York Times

Collapse of Earliest Known Empire Is Linked to Long, Harsh Drought

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD

Published: August 24, 1993

Professor Weiss:

“However, new research suggests complex internal problems and the beginning of a 300-year drought as the culprits. * 2217-2193: Reign of his son Shar-kali-sharri, followed by a period of anarchy”

Thanks a bunch, I'll see if I can find the publication.

[Leonardo]

I want to elorate because to me this is important since we are discussing Alewyns interpretation so that is the parts I am debating.

OK, I said Gilgamesh wasn't around if he was a real person c. 2800BC or 2900BC according to the alluvial river deposits up to Kish in Sumeria.

You say the story of Gilgamesh refers to a prior flood, most likely the one in the King List dated to 2800BC, the one that has the archaeologcal proof I spoke of just then.

But how can it be if Gilgamesh wasn't around when this 2800-2900BC flood occurred?

I know I sound repetitive but get your head around it - If the story was not written until 2000BC that is the Epic of Gilgamesh, and Gilgamesh was around 2600BC wouldn't it make more sense to have the flood that occurred at 2200BC (2193BC) as the flood story with an old, that is 600 year old man in it?

ie: the story of Noah or Gilgamesh in the ark.

The Epic is evidence for a later flood as Alewyn says because Gilgamesh couldn't have been in a flood that occurred in 2800-2900BC which the alluvial deposits are showing if nothing else.

In the Epic of Gilgamesh, the story of the Flood is related to Gilgamesh by Utnapishtum when Gilgamesh finds the latter in the Underworld. The Flood Utnapishtum relates is from a previous time, not Gilgamesh's time. Gilgamesh was not involved in the Flood itself (or any flood, for that matter), Ziusudra/Utnapishtum was.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Leonardo

[SlimJim22]

In the Epic of Gilgamesh, the story of the Flood is related to Gilgamesh by Utnapishtum when Gilgamesh finds the latter in the Underworld. The Flood Utnapishtum relates is from a previous time, not Gilgamesh's time. Gilgamesh was not involved in the Flood itself (or any flood, for that matter), Ziusudra/Utnapishtum was.

Ziusudra is the Sumerian flood hero and Utnapishtum is the Akkadian I think, same guys different names. However, in the Gilgamesh tale he goes looking for Ziusudra because he coverts eternal life. He finds the life giving elixir but has it stolen. This must mean that the flood pre dates Gilgamesh by my reckoning or how else could he go looking for the guy who survived the flood.

Maybe Utnapistum is Babylonian, I'm not sure.

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=view_other_articles&story_id=59&cat_id=7

Problem is with stories is that they can be made up and if the writers are creative enough they can seem very real.

http://www.earthhistory.org.uk/genesis-6-11-and-other-texts/flood-texts-from-mesopotamia/

There is danger in taking the tablets too literally and as floods were relatively common there is a chance that both or neither could correspond to the flood myth. The later floods may have led to the myth being updated but one can only guess as to which flood was the greater and from which Noah/Ziusdudra/Utnapishtum survived or if indeed he ever existed.

[Alewyn]

Good morning all.

Yesterday I posted chapter one of my book. I think everybody will agree that I did not prove that the Oera linda Book is authentic. If it was that simple we would not be having this debate now. Equally, from what I have said thus far, nobody can say outright that the book is a hoax. We seem to agree that something happened in 2193 BC or thereabouts and, if the OLB is correct, this seems to have been pretty bad. There is just too much speculation going on (even by respected academics) to ignore the event. So, we will have to search further to evaluate the OLB's credibility.

In chapter 2 following I spend some time to explain how the people from Frya's land

functioned. This analysis is important if we want to understand their subsequent history and I do believe that both newcomers and those who know the book will get some fresh insights.

With Abe's advice I think I am now able to post pictures as well. Unfortunately the footnote references are still not showing up in the text.

Chapter 2

The Fryan Federation

The Commission

The Oera Linda Book as we have it today was compiled in ca 558 BC from a collection of ancient historical writings and laws that dated back to 2193 BC. The Fryan Federation, a term of choice that will later become clearer, was by then a shadow of the former world empire that controlled most of Central and Western Europe some 1700 years earlier and before. We read in the book that by now there were only 13 Burghmaids left. The head of state, Frana, was murdered in ca 588 BC, some 30 years before, and a general assembly was convened to elect a new leader. The nation was under threat of a military invasion and it was decided to establish a commission to collect and record all historical documents for posterity lest these were destroyed in the impending war.

We owe the credit and honour for this decision to a lady by the name of Adela Oera Linda who was elected to the position of Head of State 30 years earlier after the death of the Folk Mother. She declined the nomination because she had fallen in love and wanted to get married. Her recommendation to the general assembly resulted in the Oera Linda Book the Rosetta Stone of European history and the only explicit proof of a benign world power that disappeared. History, however, is littered with references to this civilization as we shall see.

The farsightedness of Adelas recommendation and the subsequent work of the commission allow us today, almost 2600 years later, to gain an insight into this forgotten society; the most advanced culture (by Western Standards) in antiquity.

As with all societies who suffered the devastation of 2193 BC, most of their records and in fact the very fibre of this ancient civilization were largely destroyed. They had to start afresh. We therefore find mostly post-2193 BC history in the Oera Linda Book. Nevertheless, there are some references to the Good Old Days which allow us to reconstruct the extent of their pre-disaster dominion. Their system of government, religious beliefs and ethical norms are fairly well documented.

Boundaries

The Oera Linda Book gives us a good description of the size of their country as they perceived it to be after 2193 BC. In order to understand the references given in the book, a few notes for clarification are provided here:

1. Atland or Altland means the Old Land.

2. Wr-alda, the Oldest of the Oldest, also known as Alfeder means God, or Father of All. This is similar to the Heavenly Father in Christianity.

3. Wr-aldas Sea means Gods Sea which since time immemorial has been known to us as the Atlantic Ocean. The accepted origin of the word is that it is named after the mythical god Atlas. In light of the Oera Linda Book it now seems more reasonable to speculate that the name would rather mean the Ocean of the Old Land, Atland Ocean or Atlantic Ocean a term that came to be used some centuries after the 2193 BC event. Herodotus mentioned it in his Histories written in the 5th century BC.

4. The Middle Sea or Mediterranean is described as having being west of Atland. It is proposed that this is the result of either an incorrect translation or a mistake that crept in during a previous transcription. If the word west is substituted for south, the whole picture comes into focus.

5. The Aster Sea means East Sea and is known today as the Black Sea.

6. The book then gives the extent of their land as extending from the Atlantic Ocean in the west to the Black Sea in the east; from the Mediterranean in the south to beyond the Baltic Sea in the north.

7. Mention is made that, apart from all the small rivers, Wr-alda had given them 12 large rivers on which they could sail to the sea. These would include the River Don which enters the Black Sea at its north-eastern extremity. It would then seem logical to assume that the Don formed a natural eastern boundary. The Don River was known as the Tanais or Tanis in antiquity as mentioned by both Herodotus in ca 450 BC and Flavius Josephus in his Jewish Antiquities written in ca. 90 AD.

8. The book states that Twiskland was beyond their eastern boundary. This would imply the area between the Volga and the Ural Mountains in Russia and not in Germany as proposed by some.

What is astonishing is that this ancient and forgotten Fryas Land or Fryan Federation circumscribes the 21st century European Union 4200 years ago. The Federation did not only include the present-day European Union, but also the Balkans, Norway, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldavia and North Africa. In a sense one could argue that it took the Fryan Federation 4200 years to reunify after the 2193 BC disaster.

The following map (Figure 7) was compiled from the description given in the Oera Linda book:

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab28/alewyn123/Chapter%202/Figure6.jpg

Figure 7: Frya's Land before 2193 BC

One mysterious aspect of the Oera Linda Book is the reference to Atland or Altland that disappeared beneath the sea in 2193 BC. At first it would seem that this could have been part of the coastline of Western Europe that was destroyed. However, as we read on it becomes evident that they never refer to mainland Europe as the Old Land. Admiral Inka sailed west in ca 2000 BC in search of remnants of the Old Land ; that is, some 193 years after the event that destroyed their world. If Atland was part of Europe they would have known whether there was anything left. We can therefore only assume that this part of their federation was a fair distance away. The pre-2193 BC federation therefore seems to have comprised both Europe, as described before, and Atland somewhere to the west. The fact that they referred to the Old Land could imply that this submerged land could have been their country of origin from where they colonised Europe in the distant past. This, quite possibly, could still have been the location of their capital and the seat of central government at the time of the 2193 BC event.

The book makes no further mention of Inka, unlike the incorrect observation from some modern commentators that the Frisians claimed to have founded the Inca Civilisation in South America. Admittedly there is this suggestion, but it may also mean that the Incas derived their name from someone in their ancient past that crossed paths with them and whom they may even have deified. This is another reason why the book was rejected in the 19th and 20th centuries. Even DNA profiling does not appear to provide us with evidence of an European incursion into the Americas at the time.

We must state categorically that no attempt is made here to equate Atland with Atlantis although there may be a connection. At this stage it would be tantamount to calling Austria the same as Australia.

From the post-2193 BC description of their boundaries it seems as if they had come to terms with the loss or submergence of Atland. Very little reference is made or descriptions given of this Old Land. They still described their European states as these would have been before the disaster but we find that their influence around the Middle Sea had mostly dwindled to the point of non-existence. As was the case with Egypt, who took the better part of 300 years to start functioning again, the Fryan Federation must have taken a few centuries as well. As the smoke cleared and the water receded, small bands of survivors started finding each other in the chaos. No sooner had they managed to establish rudimentary settlements when they had to defend themselves against bands of refugees from the East. One may safely assume that most of their maritime expertise and technology would have perished and that the survivors were those who resided further inland. It would have taken some time before they would have been able to start building new fleets to resume their commercial activities. By then very little memory would have existed of their previous holdings around the Mediterranean. These would also have been destroyed and by the time the Frisians returned other migrants had filled the void left by their absence.

This is how the Oera Linda Book describes the extent of their country before the disaster:

Chapter XXI: This stands inscribed upon all burghs

1. Before the bad time came our land was the most beautiful in the World. The sun rose higher , and there was seldom frost. The trees and shrubs produced various fruits, which are now lost. In the fields we had not only barley, oats, and rye, but also wheat which shone like gold, and which could be baked in the sun's rays. The years were not counted, for one was as happy as another.

2. On one side we were bounded by Wr-alda's Sea, on which no one but us might or could sail; on the other side we were hedged in by the broad Twiskland, through which Finda's people dared not come on account of the thick forests and the wild beasts.

3. Eastward our boundary went to the extremity of the Aster Sea, and westwards to the Middle Sea; so that besides the small rivers we had twelve large rivers given us by Wr-alda to keep our land moist, and to show our seafaring men the way to his sea.

4. The banks of these rivers were at one time entirely inhabited by our people, as well as the banks of the Rene (Rhine) from one end to the other.

5. Opposite Denamark and Juttarland we had colonies and a burgh-femme. Thence we obtained copper and silver, as well as tar and pitch, and some other necessaries.

6. Opposite to us we had Britannia, formerly Westland (Wales), with her tin mines.

7. Britannia was the land of the exiles, who with the help of their burgh-femme had gone away to save their lives; but in order that they might not come back they were tattooed with a "B" on the forehead, the banished with a red dye, the other criminals with blue.

8. Moreover, our navigators and merchants had many factories among the Heinde Krekaland and in Lydia. In Lydia the people are black.

9. As our country was so great and extensive, we had many different names. Those who were settled to the east of Denamark were called Juttar, because often they did nothing else than look for amber on the shore. Those who lived in the islands were called Letne, because they lived an isolated life

10. All those who lived between Denamark and the Sandfal, now the Skelda, were called Stiurar, Sekampar, and Angelarar. The Angelarar were men who fished in the sea, and were so named because they used lines and hooks instead of nets.

11. From there to Heinde Krekaland the inhabitants were called Kadhemar, because they never went to sea but remained ashore.

12. Those who were settled in the higher marches bounded by Twiskland were called Saxmannar, because they were always armed against the wild beasts and the savage Britne.

13. Besides these we had the names Landsaton, Marsatar, and Holt- or Wodsatar. (landlubbers, marsh dwellers and wood or forest dwellers.)

The account describes a multi-cultural federation or a United States of Frya. It would appear that they all had a common language throughout the federation and all of the various peoples were included in their democratic constituency.

Government

1. All Frya's Children are equal, wherefore they must all have equal rights on sea and land, and in all that Wr-alda has given.

Fryan Europe some 4200 years ago can broadly be described as a type of federation where the member states, or provinces, appear to have enjoyed a fair amount of autonomy. Each state or district had a provincial capital or citadel where a female governor or Burghmaid resided. We do not know how many Burghmaids or states there were, but mention is made of quite a few of them such as in Scandinavia, Britannia, Spain and others. As mentioned before, there were only thirteen Burghmaids left towards the end of their dominance of Western Europe in 558 BC. These governors were democratically elected from female clerics or femmes who had completed a prescribed syllabus and period of training. They were not allowed to marry or to have been married before. If they wished to marry, they had to relinquish their position as it was felt that a conflict of interests could arise if they had to tend to both a family and to the overseeing of the governance of the land.

From the ranks of the Burghmaids or governors a federal leader or Folk Mother was elected by all the citizens with voting rights. Her appointment was for life as was the appointment of the Burghmaids. The Folk Mother could nominate her successor but the constitution allowed for the Folk Mother and the Burghmaids to be removed from office if they violated the constitution or neglected their duties. In cases of gross misconduct they could be exiled or banished to the penal colony in Britannia and even be sentenced to death.

An important token of their civilisation was their perpetual flame or torch. The Folk Mother and every Burghmaid had a burning flame in their citadels which dedicated maidens had to keep burning at all times. Whenever a new citadel was built or a new Burghmaid appointed, her lamp had to be lighted from the Folk Mothers lamp in the capital. It would appear that the flame was seen as a token of her legitimacy, her oath to uphold and defend their creed and as a symbol of their religion and civilization.

Some translations and commentators refer to these female clerics as priestesses which may create the impression of some cultic or mysterious order. Nothing appears to be further from the truth. Their primary function was to ensure adherence to their very high moral code, laws and religion in all aspects of daily life and governance. It was incumbent on them to maintain the peace. Their other duties included education, welfare, medical care, housing, botanical research, farming, business ethics and the administration of justice in collaboration with the male reeves or magistrates. The appeal court resided with the Folk Mother.

The term, matriarchal system, cannot be strictly applied to the Fryan Federation. While it is true that the highest offices in the land, by todays standards, seem to have been held by women, we find that they were only seen as the custodians of their creed. The Folk Mother and the Burghmaids had to ensure that all activities and laws passed, as well as the governance of the land, conformed to their ethical and religious codes. The men were responsible for the governance of the land and had to take care of defence, maritime affairs, trade and commerce and the schooling of the youth in these disciplines. We find exactly the same system in Iran today where a Guardian Council of clerics oversee and monitor the administration of the democratically elected government. We shall later come back to the connection between Iran and Western Europe.

Despite the fact that the Folk Mother and Burghmaids held the highest positions of state and therefore the power of veto, the democratically elected parliament ruled. In numerous instances we note that they governed the land without a folk mother for decades and in one instance for almost three centuries. We also note that they had male reeves or magistrates as well as Burghomeisters or mayors. The Burghomeisters were responsible for the observance of municipal and building regulations and their duties included the maintenance of public amenities such as the market place, the commons, botanical gardens, parks, forests and, yes, nature conservation.

Military commanders were called kings. Sea Kings were, in fact, generals that were in command of naval combatants or what we would call marines, while warrior kings were army generals in command of the infantry and cavalry. Navy admirals and merchants resorted under the sea kings. The kings, or generals, in turn, fell under the jurisdiction of an Alderman from parliament something like a modern Secretary of Defence or a minister.

The title of king clearly had a very different meaning from the modern concept. From the Oera Linda Book we can see that the role evolved from these purely military positions in antiquity to that of the hereditary monarchs of later times. It would seem that this was as a result of the influence of the autocratic patriarchal systems that invaded Europe from the East after 2193 BC. It is interesting to note that the official dress of kings right up to the present is still a military-style uniform.

A further interesting fact was that kings were not allowed to bear arms in a conflict:

12. Those who fight with arms are not men of counsel, therefore no king must bear arms. His wisdom must be his weapon, and the love of his warriors his shield.

Kings were elected for a three-year term. Once his term had expired he could only be elected again after an interval of seven years. This would appear to have been quite an effective way of preventing personality cults and military coups.

The following diagram is a broad outline of how their administration appeared to have functioned:

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab28/alewyn123/Chapter%202/Figure7.jpg

Figure 8: Administration of the Fryan Federation

Whereas each state had its own female governor, the senior reeves, magistrates or aldermen presided over as many as three states simultaneously. Under the auspices of the Folk Mother and Parliament they were responsible for the general governance of the land, as well as for the Citizen Force and mobilization in times of war.

Schooling was compulsory for all children. From the age of 12 boys had to spend one day a week on military training. Once they were considered to be skilled in the handling of weapons, they entered into either the military or the navy as warriors, sailors or marines. Their national conscription lasted for three years and only after they had completed their service period were they allowed to vote in elections. A person had to be a voter for seven years before he could become a candidate for election himself.

Some interesting stipulations included that no person of distinction was allowed to vote in the election of warriors only the people. Any person who declined a nomination for any office lost his voting rights for life. The warriors referred to in this context were not the combatants in the army or navy, but rather those who were responsible for maintaining law and order in the towns. Influential people could therefore not abuse their power by intimidating these officers, but equally, this arrangement protected the stature and integrity of the leaders. We read that each Burghmaid could appoint up to 300 of these police officers and that they had to undergo training in law, defence and commerce.

The following gives us an idea as to how far they took their democratic rights:

1. All Frya's sons have equal rights, and every stalwart youth may offer himself as a navigator (sailor) to the alderman, who may not refuse him as long as there is any vacancy.

2. The navigators may choose their own masters.

3. The traders must be chosen and named by the community to which they belong, and the navigators have no voice in their election.

4. If during a voyage it is found that the sea-king is bad or incompetent, another may be put in his place, and on the return home he may make his complaint to the alderman.

5. When in the field, the king consults only his superior officers, but three burghers of the folk-mother must be present, without any voice. These burghers must send daily reports to the folk-mother that they may be sure nothing is done contrary to law or to the counsels of Frya.

6. If the king wishes to do anything which his elders oppose, he may not persist in it.

7. If an enemy appears unexpectedly, then the king's orders must be obeyed.

8. If the king is not present, the next to him takes command, and so on in succession according to rank.

The fact that the troops and sailors could elect their own senior officers without the sanction of the Senate could explain why sea kings and warrior kings were sometimes very young. We read about Wodin, Inca and Tunis who were generals before they were 25 years old. According to Frisian law, young men had to be married by the time they turned 25 and when they got married the community had to give them a house. We can assume they were all young and single because they were still living with their parents or relatives when they were elected as generals.

(Could somebody please tell me how to show my figures in the text iso links? I am using Photobucket)

Edited July 13, 2010 by Alewyn

[Alewyn]

Survivors of the Great Tsunami

Chapter 2 (Continued)

Religion

The old Frisians were monotheists and, as some 20th century commentator noted, Protestant at that, without of course the third person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ. Throughout the book one reads how they abhorred idolatry, witchcraft and the occults. The following few quotes out of many illustrate the essence of the oldest known monotheistic religion in the world:

Chapter IV: The oldest doctrine -

1. Hail to all the well-intentioned Children of Frya!

2. Through you Irtha (the earth) shall become holy.

3. Learn and announce to the people that Wr-alda is the ancient of ancients, for he created all things.

4. Wr-alda is all in all, for he is eternal and everlasting.

5. Wr-alda is everywhere but invisible, and therefore is called a spirit. All that we can see of him are the created beings that come to life through him and go again, because from Wr-alda all things proceed and return to him.

6. Wr-alda is the beginning and the end. (Christianity: The Alpha and the Omega)

7. Wr-alda is the only mighty being, because from him all strength comes, and returns to him. Therefore he alone is the creator, and nothing exists without him.

8. Wr-alda established eternal principles, upon which the laws of creation were founded, and no good laws could stand on any other foundation.

9. But although everything is derived from Wr-alda, the wickedness of men does not come from him. Wickedness comes from heaviness, carelessness, and stupidity; therefore they may well be injurious to men, but never to Wr-alda.

10. Wr-alda is wisdom, and the laws that he has made are the books from which we learn, nor is any wisdom to be found or gathered but in them.

11. Men may see a great deal, but Wr-alda sees everything. Men can learn a great deal, but Wr-alda knows everything. Men can discover much, but to Wr-alda everything is open. Mankind is male and female, but Wr-alda created both. Man love and hate, but Wr-alda alone is just. Therefore Wr-alda is good, and there is no good without him.

12. In the progress of time all creation alters and changes, but goodness alone is unalterable; and since Wr-alda is good, he cannot change. As he endures, he alone exists; everything else is show.

5. Wr-alda, who alone is eternal and good, made the beginning. Then commenced time. Time wrought all things, even the earth. The earth bore grass, herbs, and trees, all useful and all noxious animals. All that is good and useful she (earth) brought forth by day, and all that is bad and injurious by night.

2. To Wr-alda's spirit always shall you bare and bend your knees in thricefold gratitude - for what you have received, for what you do receive, and for the hope of aid in time of need.

4. Let not your neighbour express his thanks to you with bare and bended knees, which are always reserved for Wr-alda's spirit alone. Envy would assail you, wisdom would ridicule you, and my femmes (maids) would accuse you of irreverence.

It is abundantly clear that the 19th century translations into Dutch and English did the book a great disservice because of some of the terms these translators chose. This may well have been another reason why the relatively pious community of the time rejected the book and which has set the tone for the book into the 20th century. Examples of some of the patently wrong terms are the following, with the suggested correct interpretation in brackets:

● You must tell them of the wizards (heroes), of their magical (gallant) deeds and distant travels

● Anything that any man commences, whatever it may be, on the day appointed for Frya's worship (honour) shall eternally fail, for time has proved that she was right.

● Priestesses (governors, Burghmaids or maids).

The old Frisians were religious monotheists. Some commentators believe that in addition to Wr-alda, they also worshipped the earth as well as their First Earth Mother, Frya. This can again be relayed back to a possible incorrect translation which says that they worshipped Frya once a year on Frya’s Day. It would appear that they rather honoured her as the day was supposed to have been spent as a joyous festival. A deity that was worshipped only once a year could not have amounted to much in any case.

As for the allegation that the old Frisians worshipped the earth, this is another blatant, if not mischievous, misconception. Their so-called personification of Mother Earth is no different from our modern reference to earth by exactly the same term. We assuredly, however, do not worship Mother Earth.

The reader is again reminded of the commandment that stated that they must bare and bend their knees to Wr-alda’s Spirit only. Nowhere do they mention Frya or the earth in this context.

Myths

According to Frisian legend Wr-alda created three Earth Mothers in the beginning. Lyda was the mother of the black people; Finda was the mother of the yellow people and Frya the mother of the white people. From then on all the descendants were referred to as the children or people of Finda, Lyda or Frya. Frya was described as blonde-haired with blue eyes and a fair complexion. Her name meant Freedom.

Frya should possibly be compared to Lady Justice or Justitia, with her weighing scales and double-edged sword who often adorns our courthouses or courtrooms as an allegorical personification of the moral force that underlies our legal system. Likewise, Frya was possibly seen as the embodiment of divine order, law, ethics and custom –at least during the earlier part of their history. To suggest that the ancient Frisians worshipped Frya could be the same as accusing our modern judiciary of worshipping Justitia.

When Frya died in what would appear to have been the 2193 BC or perhaps some earlier flood disaster, she ascended to her watch star from where she watched over her children. Their laws, or sacred Text, were given to them by Frya in ancient times before the world was destroyed.

43. Exalted Frya! When she had thus spoken Irtha shook like Wr-alda’s Sea. The ground of Flyland sunk beneath her feet, the air was dimmed by tears, and when they looked for their mother she was already raised to her watch-star; then at length thunder burst from the clouds, and the lightning wrote upon the firmament, "Watch!" (Be on guard!)

44. Far-seeing Frya! The land from which she had risen was now a stream, and except her Tex all that was in it was overwhelmed.

Legal System and Ethical Code

Throughout the book one gets the impression of a religious people who were guided in their everyday lives by their religion and moral codes. They were, however, not fanatics and if anything, very tolerant towards outsiders. They regarded themselves as a step above the other races, but they also believed that Wr-alda would punish them if they exploited these peoples. They regarded it as their duty to educate and train outsiders in their laws and doctrines; the essence of which resonated in the battle cry of the French Revolution some 3 800 years later - Liberty, Equality and Fraternity!

8. Meddle not with the people of Lyda, nor of Finda, because Wr-alda would help them, and any injury that you inflicted on them would recoil upon your own heads.

9. If it should happen that they come to you for advice or assistance, then it behoves you to help them; but if they should rob you, then fall upon them with fire and sword.

One of the strictest codes they had as the Children of Frya or Free People was the prohibition on slavery. They were not allowed to enslave any other human being. They believed that if they made slaves of other people, Wr-alda would make slaves of them. They would equally not accept to be enslaved themselves but would rather commit suicide. This principle explains a lot of their history as we shall see later.

37. Sensible Frya! The first lesson that she taught her children was self-control, and the second was the love of virtue; and when they were grown she taught them the value of liberty; for she said:

38. Without liberty all other virtues serve to make you slaves, and to disgrace your origin.’

5. Frya has said we must not admit among us any but free people; but what have they done? They have imitated our enemies, and instead of killing their prisoners, or letting them go free, they have despised the counsel of Frya, and have made slaves of them.

Their constitution demanded that prisoners of war be either executed or set free. They were not allowed to make slaves of them and by implication, also not allowed to imprison them. They describe how prisoners of war should be taken to remote places where they could be instructed in the ways of the Frisians so that when they are set free they would no longer see the Frisians as enemies but rather as friends.

6. If any enemies be taken prisoners, they must be sent to the interior of the country, that they may learn our free customs.

7. If they are afterwards set free, it must be done with kindness by the femmes, in order that we may make them comrades and friends, instead of haters and enemies.

Throughout the Oera Linda Book we read how seriously they took their missionary work. Their efforts to convert everyone with whom they came into contact had a profound influence on world history as we shall see later. The reader should bear this in mind as we retrace their journeys.

In The Oera Linda Book we find the origins of the Common Law as it appeared millennia later in Roman-Dutch Law. The Frisians believed that Wr-alda placed the knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil into the soul of every person. They called this inherent knowledge Ewa and described it thus:

17. Ewa means that sentiment which is implanted in the breast of every man in order that he may know what is right and what is wrong, and by which he is able to judge his own deeds and those of others; that is, if he has been well and properly brought up. "Ewa" has also another meaning; that is, tranquil, smooth, like water that is not stirred by a breath of wind. If the water is disturbed it becomes troubled, uneven, but it always has a tendency to return to its tranquil condition.

18. That is its nature, just as the inclination towards justice and freedom exists in Frya's Children. We derive this disposition from the spirit of Wr-alda, our provider, which speaks strongly in Frya's Children, and will eternally remain so. "Ewa" is another symbol of Wr-alda, who remains always just and unchangeable.

19. Ewa, eternal and unalterable, the sign of wisdom and rectitude, must be sought after by all pious people, and must be possessed by all judges. If, therefore, it is desired to make laws and regulations, which shall be permanent, they must be equal for all men. The judges must pronounce their decisions according to these laws.

20. If any crime is committed respecting which no law has been made, a general assembly of the people shall be called, where judgment shall be pronounced in accordance with the inspiration of Wr-alda's spirit. If we act thus, our judgment will never fail to be right.

The Frisians’ seamanship and navy allowed them to be international merchants and explorers. They traded from the heart of Europe via rivers to all around the West European and Mediterranean coasts to as far as Egypt, Sidon and Byblos in Phoenicia. They had tin and copper mines in Scandinavia and Britain and factories in Italy, Spain and Africa. By all accounts they were very prosperous. They jealously guarded their reputation as reliable and honest businessmen and did not tolerate any dubious transactions. Any Frisian or foreigner that was found to be in breach of their business or ethical codes was blacklisted throughout the Federation. In extreme cases offending countries were subdued by military force. Their trade missions frequently consisted of fleets in excess of a hundred ships with crews that could have amounted to any number from 4 000 to 10 000 sailors and marines. This would obviously have allowed them to enforce their business ethics and rules of conduct.

7. Whenever a foreign trader comes to the open markets at Wyringga and Almanland, if he cheats, he must immediately be fined, and it must be published by the femmes throughout the whole land.

8. If he should come back, no one must deal with him. He must return as he came.

9. Whenever traders are chosen to go to trading stations, or to sail with the fleets, they must be well known and of good reputation with the femmes.

10. If, however, a bad man should by chance be chosen and should try to cheat, the others are bound to remove him. If he should have committed a cheat, it must be made good, and the culprit must be banished from the land in order that our name may be everywhere held in honour.

11. If we should be ill-treated in a foreign market, whether distant or near, we must immediately attack them; for though we desire to be at peace, we must not let our neighbours underrate us or think that we are afraid.

11. There shall be no usurers in the market. If any should come, it will be the duty of the femmes to make it known through the whole land, in order that such people may not be chosen for any office, because they are hard-hearted. For the sake of money they would betray everyone - the people, the folk-mother, their nearest relations, and even their own selves.

12. If any man should attempt to sell diseased cattle or damaged goods for sound (good ones), the market-keeper shall expel him, and the femmes shall proclaim him through the country.

The Yule

Some more startling discoveries emanating from the Oera Linda Book are the concept of a 24-hour day and the origins of our modern alphabet and numerals.

Before we look at what the Oera Linda Book has to say on this subject, let us look at our present theories.

As regards the question of the 24-hour clock, the following quote echoes the most widely held belief today:

It appears that the Egyptians were responsible for the 24 hour day. The Egyptians were fond of counting in base twelve (instead of base 10, which is commonly used today). This is thought to be because they counted finger joints instead of fingers.

Imagine that – a civilisation that had the advanced technology to build the incredible pyramids used their finger joints to divide a day into hours!

In terms of our alphabet, we are taught that it originated from the Greeks. Others sometimes give the credit to the Phoenicians, the Egyptians or the Sumerians.

Our so-called Hindu-Arabic numerals 1 to 9 supposedly evolved from the Brahmi system. The Indian mathematician Aryabhatta is given the credit and Brahmagupta introduced the symbol zero 100 years later in the 6th century AD. Yet, for thousands of years before people were already building pyramids, temples and palaces. They drew up bills of quantities for construction and purchase. International trade and commerce thrived and the logistics for massive military campaigns had to be calculated. Complex astronomical calculations and other scientific work were done – all without a proper system of numerals?

The Oera Linda Book gives us the most credible answer to date. By deduction we may conclude that time, the 24-hour day, their alphabet and numerals are all based on the relationship between the radius and the circumference of a circle which they called the Yule. In chapter XX in the Book of Adela’s Followers we read the following:

Chapter XX: What is written hereunder is inscribed on the walls of Waraburch –

Figure 9: Signs of the Yule

1. What appears at the top is the signs of the yule - that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda: the Origin and the Beginning; from which time is derived. This (time) is the carrier, which must always go round with the yule. According to this model Frya formed the set hand which she used to write her Tex. When Fasta was folk-mother she made a running hand out of it.

2. The wit-king, that is, sea-king Godfreiath the Elder, made separate numbers for the set hand and for the running hand. It is therefore not too much that we celebrate it once a year. We may be eternally thankful to Wr-alda that he allowed his spirit to exercise such an influence over our forefathers.

3. In her time Finda also invented a mode of writing, but that was so high-flown and full of flourishes that her descendants have soon lost the meaning of it.

4. Afterwards they learned our writing - that is, the Finnar, the Thyriar, and the Krekalandar - but they did not know that it was taken from the yule, and must therefore always be written round like the sun.

5. Furthermore, they wished that their writing should be illegible by other people, because they always had matters to conceal. In doing this they acted very unwisely, because their children could only with great difficulty read the writings of their predecessors, whereas our most ancient writings are as easy to read as those that were written yesterday.

6. Here is a specimen of the set hand and of the running hand, as well as of the figures, in both:

Figure 10: The Frisian Alphabet

In ca 550 BC, Apollonia, the daughter of Adela wrote the following:

4. Against the dyke, near the house of the burgh-femme, stand the oven and the mill, worked by four oxen. Outside the burgh wall is the place where the burghers and the warriors live. The fortification outside is an hour long - not a navigator’s hour, but an hour of the sun, of which twenty-four go to a day.

To the Frisians the circle was the perfect geometrical shape and the first symbol they received from an unalterable God. From the above we can see that a circle, or Yule, represented the cyclical nature of time and time was called the carrier. Apollonia tells us that they had 24 hours in a day. The question now is why 24? Why not 20 or 32 or whatever? To understand this we first have to look at how they derived their writing system from this holy symbol, the circle.

They realised that there was an unalterable relationship between a circle and its radius. This is best explained by means of the following diagrams:

Figure 11: Origins of the Yule

Diagram 1 shows an equilateral triangle drawn from the centre of a circle with the three sides being equal to the radius. In diagram 2 we then show that there are six such equilateral triangles in a circle. From this we get to diagram 3 which is what the Frisians called the sign of the yule around which they designed their whole alphabet and numerals – including the figure 0.

What is astonishing is that our modern Western alphabet and numerals, with a base 10 system of calculation, are therefore older than 4200 years. It did not come from the Greeks or the Phoenicians or the Arabians, Indians or whoever. No doubt this will create a lot of controversy but, as with most of the facts in the Oera Linda Book, this description is the most credible.

To represent time the Frisians also turned to this holy, unalterable or God-given symbol:

Figure 12: Dividing the Yule into 12 segments

From the sign of the Yule they now drew a line from the centre of the circle perpendicular to the opposite chord as shown in diagram 4. This obviously halves the equilateral triangle. By doing this to all the triangles we now derive 12 segments in the circle as shown in diagram 5. Could this be the origin of the Egyptian base 12 System? Even in western societies the number twelve has a prominent role e.g. a dozen, a gross (12x12), 12 inches to a foot, 12 times tables, etc. The old Frisians, although they had a base ten system of numerals, often counted in multiples of twelve. We read for example that the Gertmanne stayed in India for twelve times a hundred years and two times ten years.

Having only 12 hours, that is six during the day and six at night, however, would have been impractical. Each of these segments are therefore halved again in exactly the same way as before and now we have 24 segments or 12 hours in a day and 12 hours in a night as shown in diagrams 6 and 7. They started counting their hours from when the sun was exactly overhead, or noon, which was the only fixed point that did not change by the seasons.

Figure 13: The 24 hour day

There we have the 24-hour day based on trigonometry - more than 4200 years old!

Lifestyle

Every book we read about pre-historic Western Europe describes a primitive, almost Neolithic people that resided to the north and west of the Alps. They are portrayed as hunter-gatherers and near Stone Age nomads. Invariably we see them in television documentaries as dirty, unwashed and unkempt savages where the strongest ruled. The more advanced Europeans of 4200 years ago are at best credited for having mastered fire, stone tools and primitive subsistence farming. They lived in rudimentary shelters in small communities and their diet consisted of whatever they could find in nature. It is commonly proclaimed that they only became civilized after the Romans invaded and occupied their lands.

The Oera Linda Book paints an astonishingly different picture. Before we are accused of taking the book at face value or perpetuating the hoax, let us look at what an outsider wrote about the Frisians of 3200 years ago.

For centuries, scholars have been speculating about the whereabouts of Scheria and the Phaeacians where Ulysses, also known as Odysseus, spent 10 years after the Trojan War in Homer’s Odyssey. Various islands in the Aegean and Adriatic Seas have been proposed. The Oera Linda Book gives us the answer – the Phaeacians were the Frisians and Scheria is the modern day Schelde Estuary in the Netherlands – exactly where Kalib in the Oera Linda Book, or Calypso in Homer resided.

In book V of his Odyssey written in ca 800 BC, some 400 years after the Trojan War (1188 BC), Homer describes the Frisians as near of kin to the gods:

When he (Jove) had thus spoken, he said to his son Mercury, ‘Mercury, you are our messenger, go therefore and tell Calypso we have decreed that poor Ulysses is to return home. He is to be convoyed neither by gods nor men, but after a perilous voyage of twenty days upon a raft he is to reach fertile Scheria, the land of the Phaeacians, who are near of kin to the gods, and will honour him as though he were one of ourselves.’

The Oera Linda Book, on the other hand, described the incident as follows:

2. On the largest of them was a king of the Jonhis Elenda whose name was Ulysus, the fame of whose wisdom was great. To him a priestess had prophesied that he should become the king of all Krekaland provided he could obtain a lamp that had been lighted at the lamp in Texland. For this purpose he had brought great treasures with him, above all, jewels for women more beautiful than had ever been seen before. They were from Troia, a state that the Krekalandar had taken.

3. All these treasures he offered to the folk-mother, but the folk-mother would have nothing to do with them. At last, when he found that there was nothing to be got from her, he went to Walhallagara. (on the Schelde Estuary).

4. There was established a burgh-femme whose name was Kat, but who was commonly called Kalip (Calypso), because her lower lip stuck out like a mast-head. Here he tarried for years, to the scandal of all that knew it.

A bit further Homer described a normal day in the household of King Alcinous of the Phaeacians – 3200 years ago. There are no doubt some exaggerations but, however great these are, we cannot begin to think of the Phaeacians in terms of stone-age people or savages. The reader will hopefully bear with the following extensive quotes where we shall compare Homer’s description of the Phaeacians with the Oera Linda Book:

King Alcinous, whose counsels were inspired of heaven, was now reigning. To his house, then, did Minerva fly in furtherance of the return of Ulysses. She went straight to the beautifully decorated bedroom in which there slept a girl who was as lovely as a goddess, Nausicaa, daughter to King Alcinous. Two maid servants were sleeping near her, both very pretty, one on either side of the doorway, which was closed with well-made folding doors.

By and by morning came and woke Nausicaa, who began wondering about her dream; she therefore went to the other end of the house to tell her father and mother all about it, and found them in their own room. Her mother was sitting by the fireside spinning her purple yarn with her maids around her, and she happened to catch her father just as he was going out to attend a meeting of the town council, which the Phaeacian aldermen had convened. She stopped him and said:

‘Papa dear, could you manage to let me have a good big wagon? I want to take all our dirty clothes to the river and wash them. You are the chief man here, so it is only right that you should have a clean shirt when you attend meetings of the council. Moreover, you have five sons at home, two of them married, while the other three are good-looking bachelors; you know they always like to have clean linen when they go to a dance, and I have been thinking about all this.’

She did not say a word about her own wedding, for she did not like to, but her father knew and said, ‘You shall have the mules, my love, and whatever else you have a mind for. Be off with you, and the men shall get you a good strong wagon with a body to it that will hold all your clothes.’

On this he gave his orders to the servants, who got the wagon out, harnessed the mules, and put them to, while the girl brought the clothes down from the linen room and placed them on the wagon. Her mother prepared her a basket of provisions with all sorts of good things, and a goat skin full of wine; the girl now got into the wagon, and her mother gave her also a golden cruse of oil, that she and her women might anoint themselves. Then she took the whip and reins and lashed the mules on, whereon they set off, and their hoofs clattered on the road. They pulled without flagging, and carried not only Nausicaa and her wash of clothes, but the maids also who were with her.

When they reached the water-side they went to the washing-cisterns, through which there ran at all times enough pure water to wash any quantity of linen, no matter how dirty. Here they unharnessed the mules and turned them out to feed on the sweet juicy herbage that grew by the water side. They took the clothes out of the wagon, put them in the water, and vied with one another in treading them in the pits to get the dirt out. After they had washed them and got them quite clean, they laid them out by the seaside, where the waves had raised a high beach of shingle, and set about washing themselves and anointing themselves with olive oil. Then they got their dinner by the side of the stream, and waited for the sun to finish drying the clothes. When they had done dinner they threw off the veils that covered their heads and began to play at ball, while Nausicaa sang for them.

In book VIII of the Odyssey King Alcinous describes the Phaeacians to Ulysses:

We are not particularly remarkable for our boxing, nor yet as wrestlers, but we are singularly fleet of foot and are excellent sailors. We are extremely fond of good dinners, music, and dancing; we also like frequent changes of linen, warm baths, and good beds, so now, please, some of you who are the best dancers set about dancing, that our guest on his return home may be able to tell his friends how much we surpass all other nations as sailors, runners, dancers and minstrels.

Homer relates Ulysses’ first impressions of Alcinous’ house as follows:

As the Phaeacians are the best sailors in the world, so their women excel all others in weaving, for Minerva has taught them all manner of useful arts, and they are very intelligent.

Outside the gate of the outer court there is a large garden of about four acres with a wall all round it. It is full of beautiful trees – pears, pomegranates, and the most delicious apples. There are luscious figs also, and olives in full growth. The fruits never rot nor fail all the year round, neither winter nor summer, for the air is so soft that a new crop ripens before the old has dropped. Pear grows on pear, apple on apple, and fig on fig, and so also with the grapes, for there is an excellent vineyard: on the level ground of a part of this, the grapes are being made into raisins; in another part they are being gathered; some are being trodden in the wine tubs, others further on have shed their blossom and are beginning to show fruit, others again are just changing colour. In the furthest part of the ground there are beautifully arranged beds of flowers that are in bloom all the year round. Two streams go through it, the one turned in ducts throughout the whole garden, while the other is carried under the ground of the outer court to the house itself, and the town's people draw water from it. Such, then, were the splendours with which the gods had endowed the house of king Alcinous.

Apollonia, the daughter of Adela to whom we owe the Oera Linda Book, described her village as follows in ca 556 BC:

Chapter VII: Now I will write myself, first about my burgh , and then about what I have been able to see -

1. My burgh lies near the north end of the Liudgarda. The tower has six sides, and is ninety feet high, flat-roofed, with a small house upon it out of which they look at the stars. On each side of the tower is a house three hundred feet long, and twenty-one feet broad, and twenty-one feet high, besides the roof, which is round. All this is built of hard-baked bricks, and outside there is nothing else. The burgh is surrounded by a dyke, with a moat thirty-six feet broad and twenty-one feet deep.

2. If one looks down from the tower, he sees the form of the yule. In the ground among the houses on the south side all kinds of indigenous and foreign herbs grow, of which the femmes must study the qualities. Among the houses on the north side there are only fields. The three houses on the north are full of corn and other necessaries; the two houses on the south are for the femmes to live in and keep school. The most southern house is the dwelling of the burgh-femme.

3. In the tower hangs the lamp. The walls of the tower are decorated with precious stones. On the south wall the Tex is inscribed. On the right side of this are the formulas, and on the other side the laws; the other things are found upon the three other sides.

4. Against the dyke, near the house of the burgh-femme, stands the oven and the mill, worked by four oxen. Outside the burgh wall is the place where the burghers and the warriors live. The fortification outside is an hour long - not a navigator’s hour, but an hour of the sun, of which twenty-four go to a day. Inside it is a plain five feet below the top. On it are three hundred crossbows covered with wood and leather.

5. Beside the houses of the inhabitants, there are along the inside of the dyke thirty-six refuge-houses for the people who live in the neighbourhood. The field serves for a camp and for a meadow. On the south side of the outer fortification is the Liudgarda, enclosed by the great Linda Wald. Its shape is three-cornered, with the widest part outside, so that the sun may shine in it, for there are a great number of foreign trees and flowers brought by the navigators.

6. All the other burghs are the same shape as ours, only not so large; but the largest of all is that of Texland. The tower of the Fryasburch is so high that it rends the sky, and all the rest is in proportion to the tower.

A further insight into their culture and lives is the following extract of a eulogy Apollonia wrote after the funeral of her mother:

5. Her short kilt of linen, and her tunic of wool, she spun and wove herself. How could she add to her beauty? Not with pearls, for her teeth were more white; not with gold, for her tresses were more brilliant; not with precious stones, for her eyes, though soft as those of a lamb, were so lustrous that you could scarcely look into them.

17. But come, distant living friend . The birds of the forest fled before the numerous visitors. Come, friend, and you shall hear her wisdom.

18. By the gravestone of which mention has already been made her body is buried. Upon the stone the following words are inscribed:

19. ‘Tread softly, for here lies Adela’.

There we have the Fryan Federation – the Federation of Free People. They wore clean linen shirts and had flowers in their gardens. They enjoyed hot baths and dressed up for dances. The girls used moisturizer for their skins. They had spacious houses with separate bedrooms for all, linen rooms, kitchens and reception areas. They had dedicated washing areas and cisterns (Laundromats!) for their laundry downstream from their towns. They buried their dead in graves and erected tombstones.

Their gardens and orchards were walled in with gates. They ploughed the fields and had cattle, horses, mules and sheep. Even today Friesland cows and horses are still much sought after. They had public parks and botanical gardens and practiced nature conservation. They appointed foresters to prevent indiscriminate destruction of woodlands and burghomeisters were responsible for overseeing the maintenance of public amenities.

The Frisian constitution, or Tex, as well as their laws were displayed on public buildings. They had compulsory schooling with a curriculum that included reading, writing, history, arithmetic, religion, music, botany and social responsibilities. They had a Police Academy where dedicated officers received tuition in law, weapons training and commerce.

The Frisians had a social democracy and free elections. Frisian men and women attended council meetings. The women spun wool and made linen garments. They had strict rules for business and had factories all over Europe. Their ships traded in distant countries and circumnavigated the world while at home they had horse and mule-drawn carts.

All this happened while marauding nomads inhabited the Asian Plains and in the Middle East people were living in tents and trekked after pastures for their livestock.

From both Homer and the Oera Linda Book we find a highly developed iron-age people with a lifestyle and values similar to ours. Even long before Homer, in 2200 BC, we read that the Frisians were already at this level - and in all probability long before that. We read that 4200 years ago West Europeans were using iron-age weapons and tools when the rest of humanity was still in the stone and bronze ages.

Welsh Tin Mining

We know that tin mining has been practiced in Wales for more than four millennia. Popular belief has it that the industry was started by the Phoenicians from the Eastern Mediterranean in ca 2000 BC. Here we see that Wales, or Westland, was used as a penal colony. The inmates were sentenced to labour in the tin mines over 4000 years ago.

It is interesting to note that the mining practices and technology developed over thousands of years by these ancient Frisians were applied in South Africa during the late 19th and early 20th centuries AD when tin and coal miners were imported to develop the coal, diamond and gold mining industries. In the South African mining industry these miners from Cornwall became known as the Cousin Jacks.

The claims of the Oera Linda Book sound incredible, but let us examine their story further. Once we know what to look for, the picture that emerges is quite unbelievable.

DON'T MISS THE NEXT EXITING EPISODE OF ....(music and deep voice)... "Survivors of the Great Tsunami"

[The Puzzler]

In the Epic of Gilgamesh, the story of the Flood is related to Gilgamesh by Utnapishtum when Gilgamesh finds the latter in the Underworld. The Flood Utnapishtum relates is from a previous time, not Gilgamesh's time. Gilgamesh was not involved in the Flood itself (or any flood, for that matter), Ziusudra/Utnapishtum was.

That is true, I was going on them both being from the same time period but since U. is an immortal God I guess he could be seen to be the old knowledge.

I'll think more on that one.

[The Puzzler]

lol Good Morning Alewyn,

Nice book post, I am enjoying it.

A point to add also, the people who share the closest language to the ancient Fries people when they were Anglo-Saxon is the Belgae.

In the early Middle Ages the Frisian lands stretched from the area around Bruges, in what is now Belgium, to the river Weser, in northern Germany. At that time, the Frisian language was spoken along the entire southern North Sea coast. Today this region is sometimes referred to as Great Frisia or Frisia Magna, and many of the areas within it still treasure their Frisian heritage, even though in most places the Frisian languages have been lost.

Frisian is the language most closely related to English and Scots, but after at least five hundred years of being subject to the influence of Dutch, modern Frisian in some aspects bears a greater similarity to Dutch than to English; one must also take into account the centuries-long drift of English away from Frisian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisians

These people, the Bruges are said to have also been the Phrygians once they settled in Asia Minor, with their Gordion Knot I always found them rather Celtic like. If the language of some of these migrating Frisians arrived around Armenia and Phrygia, an IE language in Anatolia, it fits with the Egyptian King who kept the children to find out which language was older than his, it was Phrygian.

It seems the Frisian way might have been in Phrygia. Fri - Phry, sounds pretty close even.

Not only that, there seems to be a connection to Frisians and Hayk of Armenia, who I see in myth as being a Hector type character, of Troy.

[The Puzzler]

Ziusudra is the Sumerian flood hero and Utnapishtum is the Akkadian I think, same guys different names. However, in the Gilgamesh tale he goes looking for Ziusudra because he coverts eternal life. He finds the life giving elixir but has it stolen. This must mean that the flood pre dates Gilgamesh by my reckoning or how else could he go looking for the guy who survived the flood.

Maybe Utnapistum is Babylonian, I'm not sure.

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=view_other_articles&story_id=59&cat_id=7

Problem is with stories is that they can be made up and if the writers are creative enough they can seem very real.

http://www.earthhistory.org.uk/genesis-6-11-and-other-texts/flood-texts-from-mesopotamia/

There is danger in taking the tablets too literally and as floods were relatively common there is a chance that both or neither could correspond to the flood myth. The later floods may have led to the myth being updated but one can only guess as to which flood was the greater and from which Noah/Ziusdudra/Utnapishtum survived or if indeed he ever existed.

Mate, off this, I was looking around for some info here and found a connection in this website here:

http://www.britam.org/countries/holland.html

In this legend Bruno represents the Angles who according to Ptolemy had at one stage been centered on the region of Brunswick in eastern Germany. They had also had a center in Angeln to the south of Denmark or else they moved to Angeln prior to the invasion of England. By placing Friso, Bruno, and Saxo in Jerusalem (which became representative of all Israel) before its capture the legend in effect infers that the Frisians, Saxons, and Brunswickian-Angles were therefore originally Israelites or Jews.

The Venerable Bede also identified the Anglo-Saxons as the Chosen People!

What it mentions is some stuff about Indians and Jews being the same, you know that thing you were on about the Jewish people from India.

Actually, in reference to Bede above, Helgoland apparently means Holy Land, the place I say is the real area of the original Fries people.

[Alewyn]

lol Good Morning Alewyn,

Nice book post, I am enjoying it.

These people, the Bruges are said to have also been the Phrygians once they settled in Asia Minor, with their Gordion Knot I always found them rather Celtic like. If the language of some of these migrating Frisians arrived around Armenia and Phrygia, an IE language in Anatolia, it fits with the Egyptian King who kept the children to find out which language was older than his, it was Phrygian.

It seems the Frisian way might have been in Phrygia. Fri - Phry, sounds pretty close even.

Not only that, there seems to be a connection to Frisians and Hayk of Armenia, who I see in myth as being a Hector type character, of Troy.

Thanks. I am still battling to get the figures to fit and unfortunately the footnote references do not show.

In my book I also came to the conclusion that "Phrygia" was most likely a derivative of "Frya" but I did not know about the Bruges and this Egyptian king.

[TheSearcher]

.....

We find exactly the same system in Iran today where a Guardian Council of clerics oversee and monitor the administration of the democratically elected government....

For the record, I know plenty of Iranians that would disagree with that statement. Iran does not have a democratically elected government. Unless the candidates are sanctioned by the Council of Ayatollah's, they will not be elected. Last elections should be a good example for that.

Not that it has anything to do with the issue at hand, but I think it merits to be mentioned and you should omit that passage from your book. It's a very bad example.

....

As regards the question of the 24-hour clock, the following quote echoes the most widely held belief today:

It appears that the Egyptians were responsible for the 24 hour day. The Egyptians were fond of counting in base twelve (instead of base 10, which is commonly used today). This is thought to be because they counted finger joints instead of fingers.

Imagine that – a civilisation that had the advanced technology to build the incredible pyramids used their finger joints to divide a day into hours!

....

I would like to know where you got this information? It's the first time I ever heard that they used their joints, which seems strange to me, since if you count joints, you either get 20, if you only count the joints in the phalanges, or 30 if you count the joints between phalanges and metacarpals as well. Still not making 24 or 12.

Now as far as I know, the origins of our 24 hour day can be traced back at least 4000 years, to ancient Egypt, Babylon, India, and China and perhaps further back in time. The Egyptians and Babylonians, for example, divided the parade of stars that appeared in the sky each night into 12 sections, marked by the various stars that rose and set that night. The importance of 12 has been attributed to the number of lunar cycles in a year.

....

In terms of our alphabet, we are taught that it originated from the Greeks. Others sometimes give the credit to the Phoenicians, the Egyptians or the Sumerians....

Which is correct, the developments and evidence show as much. The Latin alphabet originated in the 7th century BC in Italy and has continually altered for the last 2500 years, influenced by Etruscan, Greek, Phoenician alphabets and the Semitic alphabet. Due to the influence of the latter, the phonetic values of some letters changed, some letters were lost and gained, several writing styles were developed and two such styles, the minuscule and majuscule fused into one.

Our so-called Hindu-Arabic numerals 1 to 9 supposedly evolved from the Brahmi system. The Indian mathematician Aryabhatta is given the credit and Brahmagupta introduced the symbol zero 100 years later in the 6th century AD. Yet, for thousands of years before people were already building pyramids, temples and palaces. They drew up bills of quantities for construction and purchase. International trade and commerce thrived and the logistics for massive military campaigns had to be calculated. Complex astronomical calculations and other scientific work were done – all without a proper system of numerals?

....

I find your statement a tad arrogant and demeaning here, sorry. You seem genuinely to believe that before the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, they didn't have anything comparable. Well this is of course not the case. Allow me to show you otherwise. Let's take Egypt as example, they had an elaborate system, had fractions, etc. Check the Wiki page, which for once is not too shabby. You'll see that saying what you say is doing them injustice.

Same for the Babylonians, they had a very elaborate numeral system as well, which first appeared around 3100 B.C.. Again, the Wiki page is not too shabby. The Babylonians did not technically have a digit for the number zero. Although they understood the idea of nothingness, the concept of zero, it was not seen as a number, merely the lack of a number. They used a space and later a disambiguating placeholder symbol to mark the nonexistence of a digit in a certain place value.

Tell me again they didn't have a proper system of numerals!

It seems to me that your research is biased. It might just be an impression, but you do seem to assume an awfull lot and your statements are in these two cases dubious. We should check with Kmt_Sesh, when it comes to Egypt, as he is more knowledgeable as I am in that area, but I'm fairly sure of my sources in this case.

And before you ask, I get most of it from books and the library, although I refer to Wiki, because it's easier to use as source than the book on my shelf and more understandable to most people. Considering I read books in several languages and am too lazy to go and translate it all .....yeah I know my bad.

[The Puzzler]

Thanks. I am still battling to get the figures to fit and unfortunately the footnote references do not show.

In my book I also came to the conclusion that "Phrygia" was most likely a derivative of "Frya" but I did not know about the Bruges and this Egyptian king.

I said Bruges but the term used is normally Bryges and they are often placed in the area of the Balkans but I suspect differently,

Here you can even see how the y and u interchange anyway:

In antiquity, Phrygia (Greek: Φρυγία, η ) was a kingdom in the west central part of Anatolia, in what is now modern-day Turkey. The Phrygians (Phruges or Phryges) initially lived in the southern Balkans; according to Herodotus, under the name of Bryges (Briges), changing it to Phruges after their final migration to Anatolia, via the Hellespont.

The name itself appears to be German/Anglo-Saxon/IE

There is no certain derivation for the name and tribal origin of the Bryges. In 1844, Hermann Müller suggested the name might be related to the same Indo-European root as that of to German Berg (mountain) and Slavic breg (hill, slope, mountain),[11] i.e. IE *bʰerǵʰ. It would then be cognate with Western European tribal names such as the Celtic Brigantes and the Germanic Burgundians,[12] and semantically motivated by some aspect of the word meanings 'high, elevated, noble, illustrious'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryges

And before they even got to the Balkans..

Based on archaeological evidence, some scholars (e.g., Nicholas Hammond, Eugene N. Borza et al.) argue that the Bryges/Phrygians were members of the Lusatian culture that migrated into the southern Balkans during the Late Bronze Age

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryges

The Lusatian culture existed in the later Bronze Age and early Iron Age (1300 BC-500 BC) in most of Poland, parts of Czech Republic and Slovakia, parts of eastern Germany, and parts of Ukraine. It covers the Periods Montelius III (early Lusatian culture) to V of the Northern-European chronological scheme.

The Lusatian culture developed as the preceding Trzciniec culture experienced influences from the middle Bronze Age Tumulus Bronze Age (Hügelgräberkultur), essentially incorporating the local communities into the socio-political network of Iron Age Europe (Dolukhanov 1996:113). It is contemporaneous with the Urnfield culture found from eastern France, southern Germany and Austria to Hungary and the Nordic Bronze Age in northwestern Germany and Scandinavia. It is followed by the early Iron Age Billendorf culture in the West. In Poland, the Lusatian culture is taken to span part of the Iron Age as well (the is only a terminological difference) and is succeeded in Montelius VIIbc in northern ranges around mouth of Vistula by the Pomeranian culture spreading south.

There were close contacts with the Nordic Bronze Age, and the Scandinavian influence on Pomerania and northern Poland during this period was so considerable that this region is sometimes included in the Nordic Bronze Age culture (Dąbrowski 1989:73). Halstatt and La Tene influences are seen particularly in ornaments (fibulae, pins) and weapons.

Burial was by cremation, inhumations are rare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusatian_culture

Just like Achilles does to Patroclus' body.

All Pelasgians (?) and I think that Freya could even be seen as an older form of a possible Hera, a mother Goddess.

Since we also find the chariot pulling the Sun in Denmark we can expect to find this originating there imo.

The children and the Egyptian King:

According to Herodotus (Histories 2.9), the Egyptian pharaoh Psammetichus II had two children raised in isolation in order to find the original language. The children were reported to have uttered bekos which is Phrygian for "bread", so Psammetichus admitted that the Phrygians were a nation older than the Egyptians.

Josephus claimed the Phrygians were founded by the biblical figure Togarmah, grandson of Japheth and son of Gomer: "and Thrugramma the Thrugrammeans, who, as the Greeks resolved, were named Phrygians".

Same Phrygian link above

Straight away I can connect the Phrygians to the Armenians as I said I could because of the connection here of Togarmah, who is father of Hayk, of the Armenians, he who killed Bel...you should really check Hayk out some more, these people are definintely related to Frisians and also Trojans. I say Hayk is Apollo and also Hector in his Orion form in various ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayk

Edited July 13, 2010 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

I said it's important to check your sources, and so I did.

First something I posted before, to fresh up your memory:

Fictional rulers

A description of a course at the University of Amsterdam states ""One of the characteristics of Frisian historiography and literature from the Middle-Ages up to the nineteenth and twentieth century is the existence of a comprehensive corpus of fantastic, apocryphal and mystified historic works, which deal with the origins and identity of the Frisians. Well known examples are medieval myths of origin like the Gesta Frisiorum or the Tractatus Alvini, sixteenth-century humanistic scholarly books by e.g. Suffridus Petrus, Ocko van Scarl en Martinus Hamconius and nineteenth-century forgeries like the Tescklaow and the infamous Oera Linda Book."[1]

The 17th century chronicle Frisia seu de viris rebusque illustribus, by Martinus Hamconius, purported to list the ancient kings of Frisia, beginning with Friso who had allegedly migrated from India during the time of Alexander the Great. A 19th century work, the Oera Linda Book (authorship uncertain but considered to be a hoax), embellished these stories further by describing an ancient and glorious history for the Frisians extending back thousands of years, during which time they were supposedly ruled over by a line of matriarchs known as folk-mothers, founded by the eponymous goddess Frya, ancestress of the Frisians.

Kings

According to the Frisia seu de viris rebusque illustribus (and the Oera Linda Book).

Friso, 313-245 BC (Adel I Friso (de facto), 304-264 BC) (established a militaristic hereditary monarchy)

Adel, 245-151 BC (Adel II Atharik, 264-? BC)

Ubbo, 151-71 BC (Adel III Ubbo)

Asinga Ascon, 71 BC-AD 11 (Adel IV Asega Askar, or Black Adel) (reviled for employing foreign troops and bringing plague)

Diocarus Segon, 11-46

Dibbaldus Segon, 46-85 (? Verritus) (forced to accept Roman protection, and may have visited Rome in person)

Tabbo, 85-130 (? Malorix)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Frisia

OK, but what would be the reason of this Frisian tradition of creating a fictive and grand history of their people?

Well, this is the reason (and read carefully, please):

Abstract:

Begun in 1568, the revolt of the Netherlands against the Spanish stimulated every Dutch province to strive to attain the greatest possible autonomy and independence from the dominant province of Holland. One of the arguments forwarded for pursuing this independent course was how ancient a region was (laudatio ex vetustate). Incidentally, it was Holland with its Batavian myth that had a strong suit in hand in this matter. To counter this, historiographers were appointed to confirm their region's age. In this capacity, the States of Friesland designated Suffridus Petrus (1527-1597), Bernardus Furmerius (1542-1616) and Pierius Winsemius (1586-1644) consecutively. Relying on traditional accounts, which they believed were ancient, Petrus and Furmerius established a line of legendary Frisian monarchs, beginning with Friso - banished from India - who was said to be a descendant of Noah's son Sem. The results of their scholarly research were published in small-scale, unillustrated books in Latin. Not officially commissioned as a historiographer, around 1597 Martinus Hamconius (c. 1550-1620), wrote an acrostic on the name of Suffridus Petrus, which comprised an ekphrasis with an animated description of the legendary Frisians. In 1606 he also devised a table (fig. i) in which all the characters who played a role in the illustrious history of Friesland are described in Latin. This cast of characters was published again in 1617, this time in Dutch (fig. 2). A lost copy of this edition featured illustrations (fig. 3), which were reused in an edition of Hamconius' Frisia (1620) (figs. 17, 20, 21). The tableau of 1617 includes several old Frisian traditional costumes (fig. 10). All the prints were made by Pieter Feddes of Harlingen. A second set of illustrations of the Frisian princes was etched by Simon Wynhoutsz. Frisius around 1617. These prints, known only from Pierius Winsemius' Chronique of 1622 (figs. 15, 18, 19), originally constituted a consecutive series (fig. 13), doubtless intended to illustrate Hamconius' treatise and probably made for his publisher Jan Lamrinck, who (according to the author's hypothesis) could not use it and thus cut down the plates and included them in Winsemius' Chronique, which he also published. A third, incomplete series of illustrations (fig. 14), again by Pieter Feddes, was likewise made to illustrate Hamconius' series, but may have been rejected and likewise used in the Chronique. Some details in four of the figures in both series (figs. 15-23) seem to point to the iconographic tradition of the free Frisian countryman.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/brill/oh/2005/00000118/F0020001/art00001

My next step was to find an online copy of Martini Hamconius' Frisia, seu, De viris rebusque Frisiae illustribus libri

And here it is (sorry, it's in Latin, but be patient):

Martini Hamconii Frisia, seu, De viris rebusque Frisiae illustribus libri

Well, I am not going to pretend I can read Latin, but simply scroll down in the document, and you will see several lists with names of rulers and kings and dukes.

And bingo, there we have Friso, Adel, Ubbo, and several others only mentioned in that other manuscript, the Oera Linda Book, but 250 years later:

Friso:

About Friso (and I hope you will be able to read something about Friso in India) :

Adel:

About Adel:

Ubbo:

About Ubbo:

Asinga Ascon / Asega Ascar:

About Asinga Ascon / Asega Ascar:

Well then, here we have at least one source for the Oera Linda Book.

Now no doubt some will say that that source only confirms what is written in the OLB, but then you did not read this entire (and long) post carefully enough.

For those who will want to keep firmly believing in the OLB, please forget this post. And then also forget about the Frisian Middelsea (the "Mediterranean", lol), the Gypsies (the "Egyptians"), "Egypte" (Egypt in the OLB, but in reality a district in Ooststellingwerf where porobably a few families of gypsies had settled), and the OLB King of Egypt (a rich gypsy king).

Have fun.

.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Abramelin

[Alewyn]

Relying on traditional accounts, which they believed were ancient, Petrus and Furmerius established a line of legendary Frisian monarchs, beginning with Friso - banished from India - who was said to be a descendant of Noah's son Sem.

.

Abe, I cannot answer to all your hard work and I don't want to get too far ahead with my story but here is an interesting bit of information:

All the old Frisian writers and legends say that Friso came from India, except the Oera Linda Book.

According to the OLB, the Gertmanne (or Geertmanne) came from India with Alexander's admiral, Nearchus. The first time the OLB mentions Friso is after the battle of Salamis. Friso was the Sea King of the Athenian fleet and the Gertmanne fought under his command.

(The Writings of Frethorik and Wiliow, Chapter II)

32. Afterwards, Demetrius attacked Hrodus, and we transported thither his soldiers and provisions. When we made our last voyage to Hrodus, the war was finished. Demetrius had sailed to Athenia. When we came into the harbour, the whole village was in deep mourning. Friso, who was king over the fleet, had a son and a daughter so remarkably fair, as if they had just come out of Fryasland, and more beautiful than any one could picture to himself. (Friso was clearly one of the locals and not an expat from India)

39. Now Friso wished to go with all his people to Fryasland, where he had been formerly, but most of them would not go. (his people were Athenians and not Gertmanne)

49. Friso, who had sailed a good deal with the Joniar, said, "Yes."

50. But Wichhirte, our king, said, "No. The Joniar are worshippers of false gods; I myself have heard them call upon them."

51. Friso said, "That comes from their intercourse with the real Krekalandar. I have often done it myself, and yet I am as pious a Child of Frya man as any of you."

52. Friso was the man to take us to Fryasland, therefore the Joniar went with us. It seems that this was pleasing to Wr-alda, for before three months were past we coasted along Brittania, and three days later we could shout, "Huzza!"

The Writings of Konered, Chapter II

1. Friso, who was already powerful by his troops, was chosen chief reeve of the districts round Staveren. He laughed at our mode of defending our land and our sea fights; therefore he established a school where the boys might learn to fight in the Krekalandar manner, but I believe that he did it to attach the young people to himself.

5. Friso had seen a great deal. He had been brought up in the wars, and he had just learned and gathered as much of the tricks and cunning ways of the Golar and the princes as he required, to lead the other reeves wherever he wished. See here how he went to work about that.

You see, although Friso arrived in Frisia with the Gertmanne, he did not come from India.

The question now is: If the Oera Linda Book just copied old legends, why this glaring departure from these old tales which you say (I think) are also fabrications.

[Abramelin]

Abe, I cannot answer to all your hard work and I don't want to get too far ahead with my story but here is an interesting bit of information:

All the old Frisian writers and legends say that Friso came from India, except the Oera Linda Book.

According to the OLB, the Gertmanne (or Geertmanne) came from India with Alexander's admiral, Nearchus. The first time the OLB mentions Friso is after the battle of Salamis. Friso was the Sea King of the Athenian fleet and the Gertmanne fought under his command.

(The Writings of Frethorik and Wiliow, Chapter II)

32. Afterwards, Demetrius attacked Hrodus, and we transported thither his soldiers and provisions. When we made our last voyage to Hrodus, the war was finished. Demetrius had sailed to Athenia. When we came into the harbour, the whole village was in deep mourning. Friso, who was king over the fleet, had a son and a daughter so remarkably fair, as if they had just come out of Fryasland, and more beautiful than any one could picture to himself. (Friso was clearly one of the locals and not an expat from India)

39. Now Friso wished to go with all his people to Fryasland, where he had been formerly, but most of them would not go. (his people were Athenians and not Gertmanne)

49. Friso, who had sailed a good deal with the Joniar, said, "Yes."

50. But Wichhirte, our king, said, "No. The Joniar are worshippers of false gods; I myself have heard them call upon them."

51. Friso said, "That comes from their intercourse with the real Krekalandar. I have often done it myself, and yet I am as pious a Child of Frya man as any of you."

52. Friso was the man to take us to Fryasland, therefore the Joniar went with us. It seems that this was pleasing to Wr-alda, for before three months were past we coasted along Brittania, and three days later we could shout, "Huzza!"

The Writings of Konered, Chapter II

1. Friso, who was already powerful by his troops, was chosen chief reeve of the districts round Staveren. He laughed at our mode of defending our land and our sea fights; therefore he established a school where the boys might learn to fight in the Krekalandar manner, but I believe that he did it to attach the young people to himself.

5. Friso had seen a great deal. He had been brought up in the wars, and he had just learned and gathered as much of the tricks and cunning ways of the Golar and the princes as he required, to lead the other reeves wherever he wished. See here how he went to work about that.

You see, although Friso arrived in Frisia with the Gertmanne, he did not come from India.

The question now is: If the Oera Linda Book just copied old legends, why this glaring departure from these old tales which you say (I think) are also fabrications.

Yes, the OLB is a bit different.

The older mansucripts say Friso and his men came from India (but I really can't check because I can't read Latin), the OLB says the Frisians/Geertmannen returned from India under the guidence/rulership of Friso.

It just adds a bit more detail to the originals ofthe 17th century.

Doesn't it bother you that the only other sources for Friso, Adel, Ubbo, Asega Ascar, and many other Frisian rulers is only to be found in early 17th century fabrications, KNOWN fabrications. Fabrications to create a great history that goes far back, and all that to gain independence?

Btw, I found something (in German) that seems to be some sort of desription of what these 17th century manuscripts are telling us about Friso and India:

http://gratis-sagen.de/johann-georg-theodor-graesse/sagenbuch-des-preussischen-staats-zweiter-band/10.-schleswig-holstein/1273.-der-ursprung-der-friesen

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgratis-sagen.de%2Fjohann-georg-theodor-graesse%2Fsagenbuch-des-preussischen-staats-zweiter-band%2F10.-schleswig-holstein%2F1273.-der-ursprung-der-friesen&sl=de&tl=en

Edited July 13, 2010 by Abramelin

[Alewyn]

For the record, I know plenty of Iranians that would disagree with that statement. Iran does not have a democratically elected government. Unless the candidates are sanctioned by the Council of Ayatollah's, they will not be elected. Last elections should be a good example for that.

Not that it has anything to do with the issue at hand, but I think it merits to be mentioned and you should omit that passage from your book. It's a very bad example.

Now I don't think it is a bad example. The fact that the Ayatollahs may have corrupted the system does not mean there is no sign of democracy; even though it may only be for the show.

I would like to know where you got this information? It's the first time I ever heard that they used their joints, which seems strange to me, since if you count joints, you either get 20, if you only count the joints in the phalanges, or 30 if you count the joints between phalanges and metacarpals as well. Still not making 24 or 12.

They, as the theory goes, used their thumb to point to each of the joints of the four other fingers i.e. three joints per finger x four fingers = 12. Two hands = day and night. I admit I found this on the web, perhaps Wikipedia.

Now as far as I know, the origins of our 24 hour day can be traced back at least 4000 years, to ancient Egypt, Babylon, India, and China and perhaps further back in time. The Egyptians and Babylonians, for example, divided the parade of stars that appeared in the sky each night into 12 sections, marked by the various stars that rose and set that night. The importance of 12 has been attributed to the number of lunar cycles in a year.

Exactly what I (or rather the Oera Linda Book) say except that it originated in Europe and not in Egypt, Babylon, etc.

Which is correct, the developments and evidence show as much. The Latin alphabet originated in the 7th century BC in Italy and has continually altered for the last 2500 years, influenced by Etruscan, Greek, Phoenician alphabets and the Semitic alphabet. Due to the influence of the latter, the phonetic values of some letters changed, some letters were lost and gained, several writing styles were developed and two such styles, the minuscule and majuscule fused into one.

Well, if the OLB is correct (which is what we are trying to establish) it would imply these people in the Eastern Mediteranean got their alphabets from Europe.

I find your statement a tad arrogant and demeaning here, sorry. You seem genuinely to believe that before the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, they didn't have anything comparable. Well this is of course not the case. Allow me to show you otherwise. Let's take Egypt as example, they had an elaborate system, had fractions, etc. Check the Wiki page, which for once is not too shabby. You'll see that saying what you say is doing them injustice.

Again I have to refer you back to the OLB, which IF true, will turn all our current theories upside down. This is what this whole debate is about.

Same for the Babylonians, they had a very elaborate numeral system as well, which first appeared around 3100 B.C.. Again, the Wiki page is not too shabby. The Babylonians did not technically have a digit for the number zero. Although they understood the idea of nothingness, the concept of zero, it was not seen as a number, merely the lack of a number. They used a space and later a disambiguating placeholder symbol to mark the nonexistence of a digit in a certain place value.

Tell me again they didn't have a proper system of numerals!

It seems to me that your research is biased. It might just be an impression, but you do seem to assume an awfull lot and your statements are in these two cases dubious. We should check with Kmt_Sesh, when it comes to Egypt, as he is more knowledgeable as I am in that area, but I'm fairly sure of my sources in this case.

And before you ask, I get most of it from books and the library, although I refer to Wiki, because it's easier to use as source than the book on my shelf and more understandable to most people. Considering I read books in several languages and am too lazy to go and translate it all .....yeah I know my bad.

The Oera Linda Book claims outright that the first numerals and alphabet came from them. I am trying to find evidence to determine whether this is the case. If that makes my research biased then so be it. Just ask yourself "what if". Progress is not found in the acceptance of the norm but in challenging it.

[Abramelin]

The Oera Linda Book claims outright that the first numerals and alphabet came from them. I am trying to find evidence to determine whether this is the case. If that makes my research biased then so be it. Just ask yourself "what if". Progress is not found in the acceptance of the norm but in challenging it.

One challenge would be finding another example of the OLB script.

I repeat: if this empire really stretched all over Europe, you most definately should be able to find at least one other example of that script.

One should be feeling suspicious about a disputed manuscript like the OLB being the only physical proof of the script.

-------

I think I have found several other Frisian sources, the most ancient one is said to be from the 10th century, a "Okke"........

The others are:

Ubbo Emmius. "Rerum Frisicarum Historia."

Vorperas Thaboritas. "Vorperic Theboritae Chronicon Frisiae."

Back to Okke (you will remember, "Okke, my son...". Who knows, maybe this Ocko/Okke is the great grandfather of the OLB Okke):

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocko_Scharlensis

Ocko Scharlensis (his first name is also known as Okke, Ockem or Ocka , his last name is also listed as Van Scharl, Van Skarl, Scarlensis or Scharlensem. Ocko Scharlensis is sometimes also referred as Ocko of Warns) lived, according to Andreas Cornelius, in the 10th century and was a medieval romantic historian.

The truth, according to Jacob van Lennep in his book "De roos van Dekama" (The Rose of Dekama) in 1836, however, goes as follows:

The chronicle (Croniicke, using 'warachtige beschryvinghe' , true descriptions, of Friesland) is said to be composed by Scarlensis around 970 AD, and of pieces of text of still older date. In the fourteenth century John Vlijtarp (Vlie-mound) continued the history, but by the end of the sixteenth century, Andreas Cornelius van Staveren completed the work and published it.....In reality it was entirely written by the Andreas Cornelius, a Harling organist: a 'typical humanist forgery ", which Waterbolk mentioned as an example of 'learned rage".

So even in the 16th century these guys were famous for their forgeries. And this "Ocko" or "Okke" is said to be the start of it all. Well, how nice, another 'coincidence'...

I am not done yet; all this reading, searching, digging and translating is a bit time consuming.

.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Abramelin

[SlimJim22]

Without supporting or criticizing the OP, just want to point out that ogham is an alphabet and hypothetically speaking it could have formed the basis of a language/script of a widespread empire without anything surviving to date. When the romans burnt Anglessey there were allegedly hundreds or thousands of ancient druid texts. It's hard to grasp how such a system would have operated but the celts are one group who occupied much of Europe at one time or another and stretched over a long period of time too. Not familiar with the history of Friseland but am appreciating all of your knowledge Abe.

[Abramelin]

Without supporting or criticizing the OP, just want to point out that ogham is an alphabet and hypothetically speaking it could have formed the basis of a language/script of a widespread empire without anything surviving to date. When the romans burnt Anglessey there were allegedly hundreds or thousands of ancient druid texts. It's hard to grasp how such a system would have operated but the celts are one group who occupied much of Europe at one time or another and stretched over a long period of time too. Not familiar with the history of Friseland but am appreciating all of your knowledge Abe.

The Celts were not friends with the Freya people of the OLB, so I dont think their Oghamn script has anything to do with the OLB script. It doesn't even resemble it for one bit.

But many examples of the Ogham script survived on stones to this day, and nothing survived of the OLB script, except in the OLB itself.

That's what makes me wonder...

[SlimJim22]

The Celts were not friends with the Freya people of the OLB, so I dont think their Oghamn script has anything to do with the OLB script. It doesn't even resemble it for one bit.

But many examples of the Ogham script survived on stones to this day, and nothing survived of the OLB script, except in the OLB itself.

That's what makes me wonder...

Fair points. Freya is a fairly celtic sounding name or is that nordic. They have their similarities anyway. The ogham that survives is largely notches on standing stones. I guess there could be something common between ogham and runes that may lead back to the OLB script but this is hardly structured reasoning. Any other possibilities you can think of? Basque, etruscan... no probably not.

[Abramelin]

Fair points. Freya is a fairly celtic sounding name or is that nordic. They have their similarities anyway. The ogham that survives is largely notches on standing stones. I guess there could be something common between ogham and runes that may lead back to the OLB script but this is hardly structured reasoning. Any other possibilities you can think of? Basque, etruscan... no probably not.

Freya is as Nordic as can be.

Basque and Etruscan show no similarities to the OLB language at all.

I wish good ol'Tolkien was still alive. I would ask for his advice on this...

[SlimJim22]

Freya is as Nordic as can be.

Basque and Etruscan show no similarities to the OLB language at all.

I wish good ol'Tolkien was still alive. I would ask for his advice on this...

Yeah man. The more I read the more I'm thinking there is some connection and the OLB has some authenticity. We'll see.

http://www.oeralindbook.com/

The original manuscript uses what are now called phonetic characters with arabic numerals but with its own form of construction. These phonetic characters are selected from a circle, the sun sign, with a vertical "I" and an "X" crossing it giving surprisingly, a character set or context in which most letters of the alphabet and numbers are easily recognized by modern Europeans and Americans. They were recorded by Hiddo, surnamed Over de Linda in the year 1256 AD. He copied his originals onto the new arabic paper, very desirable in Europe at the time, which was made from basic Egyptian cotton without watermark. He called it foreign paper and used a carbon ink without iron. This was fortunate because the more popular iron based inks were used at a later date and are easily recognizable by their discoloration, giving us one more piece of evidence to support the Book’s authenticity. The opening page by Hiddo, is a letter to his son Okke with instructions to "Preserve these books with body and soul."

http://www.zenrad.org/fgk1%5Cchapter01.htm

There best way to keep a mystery a mystery is to provide reasonable doubt. Such as in the case of names, use names that point to the obvious conclusion of a hoax when that is the intent. In reality there could be truth after all but of something that is hidden from conventional thinking at least.

Interesting what you were saying about the connection with the punjab and romani gypsies. Could this be tied with the language of the bards after all? To understand the OLB a cipher would be needed is that correct, then not now I mean but this would mean it was secret to all those who did not hold the key to translation.

[Abramelin]

Yeah man. The more I read the more I'm thinking there is some connection and the OLB has some authenticity. We'll see.

http://www.oeralindbook.com/

The original manuscript uses what are now called phonetic characters with arabic numerals but with its own form of construction. These phonetic characters are selected from a circle, the sun sign, with a vertical "I" and an "X" crossing it giving surprisingly, a character set or context in which most letters of the alphabet and numbers are easily recognized by modern Europeans and Americans. They were recorded by Hiddo, surnamed Over de Linda in the year 1256 AD. He copied his originals onto the new arabic paper, very desirable in Europe at the time, which was made from basic Egyptian cotton without watermark. He called it foreign paper and used a carbon ink without iron. This was fortunate because the more popular iron based inks were used at a later date and are easily recognizable by their discoloration, giving us one more piece of evidence to support the Book’s authenticity. The opening page by Hiddo, is a letter to his son Okke with instructions to "Preserve these books with body and soul."

http://www.zenrad.org/fgk1%5Cchapter01.htm

There best way to keep a mystery a mystery is to provide reasonable doubt. Such as in the case of names, use names that point to the obvious conclusion of a hoax when that is the intent. In reality there could be truth after all but of something that is hidden from conventional thinking at least.

Interesting what you were saying about the connection with the punjab and romani gypsies. Could this be tied with the language of the bards after all? To understand the OLB a cipher would be needed is that correct, then not now I mean but this would mean it was secret to all those who did not hold the key to translation.

The OLB is nothing authentic at all.

You and me and Tolkien, the 3 of us could have done a much better job using the Doggerland thread.

I would be the one supplying the scientific data, you would be the one for the spiritual/religion side, and Tolkien would be the one creating an ancient proto-Indo European, and a script to go with it.

-

The bards and the gypsies have no connection at all. The gypsies arrived in Europe long after the real Celtic bards were long gone.

[The Puzzler]

The OLB is nothing authentic at all.

You and me and Tolkien, the 3 of us could have done a much better job using the Doggerland thread.

I would be the one supplying the scientific data, you would be the one for the spiritual/religion side, and Tolkien would be the one creating an ancient proto-Indo European, and a script to go with it.

-

The bards and the gypsies have no connection at all. The gypsies arrived in Europe long after the real Celtic bards were long gone.

I'm not really getting your view.

Do you think it's recently written and is b/s or do you think it is a local story that is true and we have it wrong because we have misinterpreted the names?

See, you convince me this is local, OK - and to me then, if it is, it doesn't need to be faked and why would it be then if they did not go to Egypt etc?

If the story is localised, nothing in it should really be fake and if it is, for what reason would that be?

Also, I would beg to differ on a Celtic connection although they may have broken off quite early...

The Frisian origins are obscure. Archeologically, Frisians share a local development with other people like the Belgae in northwest continental regions, dating to the Elp culture (1800-800 BC). The Elp culture shows local continuity, starting with the emergence of the neolithic Corded Ware culture (2900 BC onwards until 2450) and running through Bell-Beaker cultures (2700–2100), Bronze Age Barbed Wire Beakers (2100-1800 BC). The Elp Culture itself began with a Hügelgräber phase, showing a close relationship to other Northern European Hügelgräber groups (sharing low-quality pottery called "Kümmerkeramik"). This phase transitioned smoothly and locally to Urnfields (1200-800 BC). Apparently, the local tradition was only broken around 800 BC, by the Iron Age Hallstatt culture and later by La Tene, which originated south and south east of Central Europe. It was thought that this change was caused by immigration, but it is now attributed to a local development stimulated by external influences.[3] The Hallstatt elites may have had little social influence in Frisia, because there is no evidence of royal burials there.

Social stability and international contacts became disturbed by power shifts towards the southern Hallstatt regions in the C-period. This caused a decay in the superstratum elite in the D-period that thus never achieved the same privileged and dominant position like in SW Germany and Eastern France. The same process of quick decay was observed at the subsequent intruding La Tene elite. Archeologically, this Iron Age period continued without breaks towards Roman times, showing that continental Germanic cultures participated in an otherwise Celtic European culture. Thus it is not clear whether most Northern European Iron Age findings are from Celtic or Germanic tribes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian

Edited July 13, 2010 by The Puzzler

[Swede]

Alewyn - As previously noted, my professional work restricts the time available to provide critique, so, again, my apologies. That said;

"Could this realignment of planet earth around her axis have had an influence on the ancient lake Agassiz in Manitoba, western Ontario, northern Minnesota, eastern North Dakota, and Saskatchewan? Did it contribute to the de-glaciation of North America? This could also explain why we do not find evidence of advanced civilizations in Canada and North America. The area would have been part of the old polar regions and therefore covered with ice. Even the last Mammoths on Wrangle island in the Arctic Ocean became extinct in ca 2000 BC as a result of the asteroid impact". - Alewyn

This supposition is simply incorrect. While Steve's work is (by his own admission) in need of a bit of an update, it should assist you in placing events into an understood time-frame.

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/glkhist/glkhist0.htm

"The Oera Linda Book is perhaps the most graphic and accurate record we have today of the catastrophe that hit planet earth and more specifically the North Atlantic coast of Europe and Britain towards the end of the third millennium BC". - Alewyn

Now how does this statement relate to the Burckle "crater", which, again, has not yet been fully proven to be an impact crater and has not yet been firmly dated? Despite Puzzlers proposition, a dating variation of even 1500 years +/- would place both positions as mute.

"4. The thick forest and vegetation cover coupled with dense populations and concentrated cultivation make the identification of prehistoric remains more difficult and expensive than the open deserts of the East". - Alewyn

While this statement may appear to have a degree of superficial validity, it does not display a working knowledge of current archaeological methodology or the results thereof. A study of the professional publications available for whichever geographic area that may be of concern will quickly validate this point. Work with it all the time.

"I agree that the individual pieces of evidence at this stage is not conclusive. I doubt that we shall ever be able to say that there is absolutely no doubt involved. If we,however, try to establish the absolute proof on every single fact, we will never make any progress. What I am trying to establish is the balance of probabilities and then to move on". - Alewyn

One may wish to evaluate this position. I could be quite incorrect here, but some may interpret this to mean that "well, I don't have my facts straight, but just believe me on this".

As a last note - Early on you presented your "findings" as a "dissertation". Given your professional background, one may be led to believe that you fully understand the import of this term. Later you use the term treatise. Ditto. Now it has become a story...

Again, my compliments on your willingness to expose your text to critical scrutiny. Would authors of similar bent be so courageous.

.

[The Puzzler]

Yeah man. The more I read the more I'm thinking there is some connection and the OLB has some authenticity. We'll see.

http://www.oeralindbook.com/

The original manuscript uses what are now called phonetic characters with arabic numerals but with its own form of construction. These phonetic characters are selected from a circle, the sun sign, with a vertical "I" and an "X" crossing it giving surprisingly, a character set or context in which most letters of the alphabet and numbers are easily recognized by modern Europeans and Americans. They were recorded by Hiddo, surnamed Over de Linda in the year 1256 AD. He copied his originals onto the new arabic paper, very desirable in Europe at the time, which was made from basic Egyptian cotton without watermark. He called it foreign paper and used a carbon ink without iron. This was fortunate because the more popular iron based inks were used at a later date and are easily recognizable by their discoloration, giving us one more piece of evidence to support the Book’s authenticity. The opening page by Hiddo, is a letter to his son Okke with instructions to "Preserve these books with body and soul."

http://www.zenrad.org/fgk1%5Cchapter01.htm

There best way to keep a mystery a mystery is to provide reasonable doubt. Such as in the case of names, use names that point to the obvious conclusion of a hoax when that is the intent. In reality there could be truth after all but of something that is hidden from conventional thinking at least.

Interesting what you were saying about the connection with the punjab and romani gypsies. Could this be tied with the language of the bards after all? To understand the OLB a cipher would be needed is that correct, then not now I mean but this would mean it was secret to all those who did not hold the key to translation.

I've been reading of a connection here and checking into the Punjab which is actually on the border of Pakistan so is not out of the realm imo to have been there from the Middle East. Land of the 5 rivers.

Considering the Bible talks of men migrating out of the East, possibly from the Punjab, it could also be the connection of the mysterious Ethiopian people in the area. Since Memnon is Ethiopian and we know he is at Susa, this Ethiopia must imo be located around Sumer.

The Ethiopians are spoken of as being like Indians and the people of Sumer are referred to as Black heads. To me, this screams of some sort of connection from the Punjab into the Middle East and also Ethiopia/Kush, which we also have Cush in the middle East and Ethiopians in the Bible, like Jews...all very connected somehow I reckon.

Harappa and the IE language connections are also in the Punjab.

Epic battles fought in the Punjab..

The epic battles described in the Mahabharata were fought in modern-day Harayana and historic Punjab. The Gandharas, Kambojas, Trigartas, Andhra, Pauravas, Bahlikas (Bactrian settlers of Punjab), Yaudheyas and others sided with the Kauravas in the great battle fought at Kurukshetra.[6] According to Dr Fauja Singh and Dr L. M. Joshi: "There is no doubt that the Kambojas, Daradas, Kaikayas, Andhra, Pauravas, Yaudheyas, Malavas, Saindhavas and Kurus had jointly contributed to the heroic tradition and composite culture of ancient Punjab".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_region

Basically the Punjab is a melting pot of Euro entrance.

Ethnic ancestries of modern Punjabis include Indo-Aryan, and some Indo-Scythian and Indo-Parthian settlers of the region, including Indo-Greek [citation needed]. Punjabi people are generally believed to be the descendants of these people.