K. Dona :The Hidden History of the Human Race

[TheSearcher]

Oh my sincere apologies!

I forgot a historian is the exact same thing as an archaeologist... Jeez, and i would of thought dedicating your life to this site you'd learn something by now.

Pfft pfft.

Oh dear, so I got it wrong and he is an archeologist. At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. And btw, I'll return you the compliment mate, I would have thought, that you'd have learned something by reading and discussing here, thanks for proving me wrong again.

Ohhh i get it... It's become so clear now.

You're jealous! That's it!

You're jealous becuase Klaus Dona who isn't a qualified archaeologist has stubled across something much more important and interesting than you ever have or will.

20+ years... Ouch!

Well that was a disappointing post, after your first few posts I'd have thought you had a bit more substance. Turns out you are as ephemeral as the morning mists over the barley fields, being pushed away by a slight breeze.

If Dona stumbled over anything, it's probably his own feet, more than anything else.

[Xpeople]

I watched part of it. Very interesting but it leave more questions than answers.

[crystal sage]

Klaus Dona work history...

My link

I don't think he is the sort of person to peddle fakes.

European Exopolitics Summit 2009 in Barcelona - Klaus Dona

My link

Weitere Mitglieder des Kuratoriums:

Dir. Klaus Dona

http://www.noejg.at/g_board.htm

A book...

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3930219816/fastgeheim-21

My link

Edited October 12, 2010 by crystal sage

[digitalartist]

Some incredible images but as much as I'd like to believe they were genuine I urge caution. I came across a site once that was called harmonicresonance or something. They had artefacts from Zimbabwe and Ecuador. They were too outthere to be accurate at least the Ecuador mini pyramids and stones. I looked into the web authro and he was a film prducer rather than a historian. Some of the image of the pyramid artefacts and cups looked very similar. I'm sure the effects could be created using modern ingenuity. However, some of the underwater pictures and stuff were really cool. Oh yeah I tried to search for that site I mentioned and the domain has expired.

Try searching on archive.org for that website. They have years of archived websites in their database

[Hanslune]

Hmmmm, an interesting dish ... a lot of wishful thinking tied in with skimpy and miscooked 'evidence', seasoned with discredited fringe ideas......with predictable results as he tries to make up for the lack of taste, armoma and eye appeal with a nice table setting.

[SlimJim22]

Try searching on archive.org for that website. They have years of archived websites in their database

I found it and posted it somewhere along the line. For those who missed it.

http://www.humanresonance.org/mana.html

It is the 300 artefacts from Ecuador that I was speaking of. If you search for them you only ever get the same information reproduced. No academic study or even mention. The finder was one Dr. Elias Sotomayor. Here is his linkedin page.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/elias-sotomayor/14/608/963

Uh, eactly what lkind of doctor works in the entertainment industry? This is why I am skeptical. With the whole elongated skull debate there is a mystery so I wouldn't write Klaus Dona off totally but I cannot understand why he has published on the artefacts from Ecuador because they are simply too good to be true so are, imo very good fakes. Shame really.

[crystal sage]

Some interesting finds here...

My link

Some more sources for Klaus' info...???

My link

Other discusssions on Dona..

My link

Edited October 12, 2010 by crystal sage

[Swede]

Some interesting finds here...

My link

Some more sources for Klaus' info...???

My link

Other discusssions on Dona..

My link

CS - Long day, so will be brief.

You do realize how your references are most damning in regards to Dona's credibility? I would speculate that quite a number of contributors (including myself) have long ago evaluated his "position". You seem to impressed by his "vitae". Note the details of his Vienna "show";

http://unsolved-mysteries.info/english/retro/e02_01_frame.htm

Don't have the time to address each of the "artifacts" mentioned, but will attempt to do so at a later date, if desired.

Keep in mind that data gleaned from the "Creation Evidence Museum of Glen Rose, Texas" and "many strange and thought provoking artifacts...from private collections" are of highly questionable worth.

Take the time to fully assess his background. He is a marketer. Pure and simple.

Really shouldn't editorialize, but the next time I see the term "spiritual archaeologist"...

.

[Scouser]

Good vid, i am only half way through it but i am liking it.

I must say, i am facinated about the pyramid with the eye, it seems to be a very important symbol.

[crystal sage]

CS - Long day, so will be brief.

You do realize how your references are most damning in regards to Dona's credibility? I would speculate that quite a number of contributors (including myself) have long ago evaluated his "position". You seem to impressed by his "vitae". Note the details of his Vienna "show";

http://unsolved-mysteries.info/english/retro/e02_01_frame.htm

Don't have the time to address each of the "artifacts" mentioned, but will attempt to do so at a later date, if desired.

Keep in mind that data gleaned from the "Creation Evidence Museum of Glen Rose, Texas" and "many strange and thought provoking artifacts...from private collections" are of highly questionable worth.

Take the time to fully assess his background. He is a marketer. Pure and simple.

Really shouldn't editorialize, but the next time I see the term "spiritual archaeologist"...

.

Yes... He seemed to get a lot of flack simply because he wasn't a degreed expert in the field... LOL.. I know many who have University degrees in history.. archaeology.. and so forth.. but do not have the passion some of these people show... some get degrees in various fields.. like psychology and so forth.. and only learn all their notes parrot fashion.. study past study notes to learn the basics of what they have to know just to pass..

Most wouldn't even care to go into the field that they have studied for... For many these days getting degrees.. Doctorates... are just rights of passage.. the minimum any doting parent will let them get away with before they can strike out on their own and do what they will with their lives... and that is mainly get an income sufficient to provide all their needs.. and desires.. pay for a few good holidays or car.. or save for a house... Again... not many have the true passion to do much with these precious keys to the doors of acceptance... peer approval. Yet there are others who also have to make a living and have 10 times the passion these fields.. and because they are not indoctrinated in the accepted ground work.. are there fore not blinkered to what they should be seeing.. expecting.. these, who have passion in these historical fields are able to see things with fresher eyes.. come to the table from differing doors.. peer over different fences of possibilities that those who have been indoctrinated with acedemic blinkers may not even think of exploring.

I have been hearing of out of place finds for decades.. ( .. lots of it from the trusty National Geographic magazines) Much of this.. as you know will be put aside or disgarded... and then forgotten.. future validating discoveries or possible links.. new directions will then be overlooked... Others later who find some matching or sympathetic pieces of unusual artifacts will also not be able to place them or validate them as all these precious validating pieces will either have been long discarded.. or lost in some dusty attic.. or been dismissed as possible fakes... Some times in fear or fits of jealousy by others in the field who would have their work questioned or superceded. Knowing how hard it is to get some new information out there.. the many months or years of rigmarol that one has to go through with peers and others in the field... to have anything published...the politics some truly significant discovery can have in changing all perceptions.. one can understand the hesitancy of including some really contraversial new evidence.. artifacts...

We know how often in scientific fields.. especially pharmacology... how experiments are adjusted to meet the sponsor's expectations.. how unsupporting data.. experiments, are diplomatically discarded or minimized to creat the targeted outcome..

So too I believe it is in our acceptance of what went on in the past.. Much of our knowledge or the past has been reasigned to support the political religious environment of the time... Read the history of different lands.. Not the Western version.. and you'll find they differ.. even the history in the past hundred years has been rewritten to make each country seem more politically correct.. for better PR..

Over the hundreds.. thousands of years.. new rulers of the lands often reworked some of the history.. burned.. altered records.. destroyed artifacts.. architecture.. art..people...

So what is really true?

So.. Klaus Dona , as I said.. may not have all the qualifications.. but with many of the positions he did have a keen eye for quality.. good art.. high quality artifacts would have been learned on the job.. for the job.

He must have had a very good reputation to hold these exhibitions.. especially in Vienna.. where security is tight.. and reputations are important.

He would have learned to hold his own in all circles of the art world across many nations. Been trusted and passed all security tests to be able to handle all these expensive unique pieces of art.. and museam quality items.

As he said.. his passion for ancient history has been inspired.. and going strong for well over ten year.. Ten years plus being surrounded by the highest quality of pieces.. privy to inumerable private collections.

I believe that in many cases the best Museum quality artifacts.. relics .. never make it to museums.. as many private collectors will pay top dollar for them.

To dismiss rare glimpses of private collections as fraudulent.. possible fakes just because academia.. scientists.. historians hadn't fully been able to play with them... and lord over their place in history. Is this really wise..

Again.. Klaus Dona does not make any claims to be an expert.. but has often mentioned that he had the connections to seek the top experts help on any questions he has of various objects.. to help with the validation and research of these artifacts.. .. especially those from private collections.

You can imagine how these wealthy private collectors would pay well to have top often poorly paid experts from academia to quietly go to their house and validate.. their aquired objects.. as they too wouldn't want to be fools paying huge sums of money for worthless artifacts.. they may seek help restore various objects.. or to write validating research papers on various objects.. give advice on how to best display their aquired objects.

[digitalartist]

I have not looked at all the images, videos, etc... so I can not say that everything presented is either authentic or fake, I did notice a couple of things. The Piri Reis map has been discussed on UM before and the conclusion is it doesn't show Antarctica but instead the southern part of South America. The way the map is drawn and the fact it does not show distance between what is supposedly Antarctica and South America but joined as one land mass are the clues to me at least. The other is the supposed OOP hammer head. If it is the one I am thinking of, with the bit of wooden handle attached, then the handle should be fossilized from the immense amount of time in the ground but it isn't, indicating a much more recent deposit of the item.

The biggest problem for Dona is inclusion of anything that is fake. Even if only one item is fake it casts a shadow on everything there.

On the one website with the row of pictures at the bottom, Is that Von Daniken in some of those pictures? If so he aligned himself with a well known fraud and that will further tarnish any of his efforts.

[crystal sage]

I have not looked at all the images, videos, etc... so I can not say that everything presented is either authentic or fake, I did notice a couple of things. The Piri Reis map has been discussed on UM before and the conclusion is it doesn't show Antarctica but instead the southern part of South America. The way the map is drawn and the fact it does not show distance between what is supposedly Antarctica and South America but joined as one land mass are the clues to me at least. The other is the supposed OOP hammer head. If it is the one I am thinking of, with the bit of wooden handle attached, then the handle should be fossilized from the immense amount of time in the ground but it isn't, indicating a much more recent deposit of the item.

The biggest problem for Dona is inclusion of anything that is fake. Even if only one item is fake it casts a shadow on everything there.

On the one website with the row of pictures at the bottom, Is that Von Daniken in some of those pictures? If so he aligned himself with a well known fraud and that will further tarnish any of his efforts.

Erich von Däniken

What was it that you think ruined all his credibility??? I heard it was just one piece of phony pottery or something silly like that?

Come on.. Erich von Däniken The "father of the ancient astronaut theory". Author of Chariots of the Gods and over two dozen books on this theme.

He singlehandedly changed how we dare think of this world... our history forever!!!!

Before that our "thinking" of our history was pretty much controlled by the parameters set by the bible...

My link

Back then.. according to most history taught at the time... somehow.. when the pyramids were built.. most of the world was still barely off the trees.. wearing bearskin and barley out of the caves..

Even the mere idea of farming.. cultivating the soils 5000 years ago was considered extreme...

Imagine how many artifacts back then were in the Ooparts category?

How many other historians.. Scholars have picked up a dodgy piece in their lives.. or were mistaken about an object or hadn't properly checked their researcher's work.. or been perhaps deliberately handed a really clever 'Dudd' or given some seemingly clever but 'dodgy' information just to discredit them?

Remember what seems to be the 'quote' of these times... "Truth is stranger than fiction"...

" You wouldn't believe it until you saw it"...."But what did you really see?"

Sherlock Holmes - Arthur Conan Doyle

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

To make mistakes is human; to stumble is commonplace; to be able to laugh at yourself is maturity." -- William A. Ward

It is called a learning curve... you pick yourself up.. and start again.. a little bit wiser.. a little bit stronger..

Everyone makes mistakes.. it is called .. 'being human'...

Had to add this one...

"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief." -- Gerry Spence

Edited October 13, 2010 by crystal sage

[Abramelin]

Erich von Däniken

What was it that you think ruined all his credibility??? I heard it was just one piece of phony pottery or something silly like that?

Come on.. Erich von Däniken The "father of the ancient astronaut theory". Author of Chariots of the Gods and over two dozen books on this theme.

He singlehandedly changed how we dare think of this world... our history forever!!!!

Before that our "thinking" of our history was pretty much controlled by the parameters set by the bible...

My link

Back then.. according to most history taught at the time... somehow.. when the pyramids were built.. most of the world was still barely off the trees.. wearing bearskin and barley out of the caves..

Even the mere idea of farming.. cultivating the soils 5000 years ago was considered extreme...

Imagine how many artifacts back then were in the Ooparts category?

How many other historians.. Scholars have picked up a dodgy piece in their lives.. or were mistaken about an object or hadn't properly checked their researcher's work.. or been perhaps deliberately handed a really clever 'Dudd' or given some seemingly clever but 'dodgy' information just to discredit them?

Remember what seems to be the 'quote' of these times... "Truth is stranger than fiction"...

" You wouldn't believe it until you saw it"...."But what did you really see?"

It is called a learning curve... you pick yourself up.. and start again.. a little bit wiser.. a little bit stronger..

Everyone makes mistakes.. it is called .. 'being human'...

In 1991 I met the South American 'Von Daniken, Cabrera, the guy in Ica , the one who owns his own little museum at the major plaza in Ica crammed to the brim with stones depicting native Americas 'playing' with dinosaurs and using telescopes and whatnot.

The main difference with Von Daniken is that this guy actually totally believed that aliens visited earth thousands of years ago. He didn't lie...but he had been fooled by people he trusted.

A few days after I met Cabrera I met an artist who had specialized in creating Inca pottery with the typical decorations. If he had wanted to, he could have sold them as true ancient artifacts; they were perfect copies.

But he didn't, he just wanted the ancient culture of his ancestors to continue.

Then.... I asked him what he thought about Cabrera and his stones. Jeesh, he nearly exploded, and told me (well, shouted is a better word), what he thought about Cabrera. He said Cabrera was an idiot, and that he knew several people (even some in his own family) who still created these 'ancient artifacts' and sold them to Cabrera.

EDITED to add:

THis artist was a proud man, proud at his Peruvian history. And he sort of blamed me, as the 'gringo' I was, to have screwed up his land and history, and now trying to even screw them more by believing in what idiots claimed about Inca/Peruvian history.

I can tell you, after I started about Cabrera my encounter with this man became a bit unpleasant, to say the least.

He was furious. And big and quite muscular too, LOL.

.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

He singlehandedly changed how we dare think of this world... our history forever!!!!

No, he didn't.

Before that our "thinking" of our history was pretty much controlled by the parameters set by the bible...

This is not true, either, as archaeology and related sciences had long exceeded any set parameters that some were using based on the Bible.

Back then.. according to most history taught at the time... somehow.. when the pyramids were built.. most of the world was still barely off the trees.. wearing bearskin and barley out of the caves..

I'm 47 and even I know better than that. Nowhere was this train of thought presented as anywhere near true in the places I or my siblings went to school. Perhaps your educational system was sub-par.

Even the mere idea of farming.. cultivating the soils 5000 years ago was considered extreme...

Relatively recent by the standards of what was known perhaps but 'extreme', absolutely not.

cormac

[Abramelin]

CrystalSage said:

Back then.. according to most history taught at the time... somehow.. when the pyramids were built.. most of the world was still barely off the trees.. wearing bearskin and barley out of the caves..

Well, must be me, but I have learned differently.

Check Malta, French Brittany, Stonehenge, India, Sumer, Akkad, China, and so on.

Ignoring facts to be able to continue believing in some culture being superior, hmmmmm......

,

Edited October 13, 2010 by Abramelin

[crystal sage]

No, he didn't.

This is not true, either, as archaeology and related sciences had long exceeded any set parameters that some were using based on the Bible.

I'm 47 and even I know better than that. Nowhere was this train of thought presented as anywhere near true in the places I or my siblings went to school. Perhaps your educational system was sub-par.

Relatively recent by the standards of what was known perhaps but 'extreme', absolutely not.

cormac

Australia.. in the early 60's and 70's... It was really Puritan back then.

I recall being excited about the idea of dinosaurs.. but learning at Saturday school... Catholic... that we were not to listen.. as the 'buried dinosaur bones' were just placed there by God to test us.. in our belief of the teachings of the bible.. We had strict Nuns.. who loved using the strap.. and Teachers that had cleverly carved boxes with sliding lids that held assorted straps and canes that they liked taking out every day.

I remember being taught that Mars was very hot... over 700 degrees at it's coolest.. that nothing could survive there, and now we are close to colonizing Mars in the next few decades...

I do vaguely recall being taught Evolution... not as a reality.. but a philosophy..

Merely discussing evolution could get you a 'hiding' ( as we called it) from the Nuns ...

So to that effect... we were totally confused by the findings and amazing articles of our National Geographic collection.. and my Uncle's 'Plain Truth' magazines.....]

Ideas that floated in our minds.. for years, but were not to be discussed... Ideas that often surfaced.. but could only be fed by blending with other science fiction novels or movies...

Edited October 13, 2010 by crystal sage

[Power Lust]

Australia.. in the early 60's and 70's... It was really Puritan back then.

I recall being excited about the idea of dinosaurs.. but learning at Saturday school... Catholic... that we were not to listen.. as the 'buried dinosaur bones' were just placed there by God to test us.. in our belief of the teachings of the bible.. We had strict Nuns.. who loved using the strap.. and Teachers that had cleverly carved boxes with sliding lids that held assorted straps and canes that they liked taking out every day.

I remember being taught that Mars was very hot... over 700 degrees at it's coolest.. that nothing could survive there, and now we are close to colonizing Mars in the next few decades...

I do vaguely recall being taught evolution... not as a reality.. but a philosophy..

An idea that could get you a 'hiding' ( as we called it) from the Nuns if you dared to discuss it...

But totally confused by the findings and amazing articles of our National Geographic collection.. and my Uncle's 'Plain Truth' magazines.....

I dont think they beat you hard enough.

joking lol

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Ohhh i get it... It's become so clear now.

You're jealous! That's it!

You're jealous becuase Klaus Dona who isn't a qualified archaeologist has stubled across something much more important and interesting than you ever have or will.

20+ years... Ouch!

Good greif. Are you 10 years old? Qualified is the word. A person should be qualified to be considered and expert. Your Klaus isn't. Are you realted to him or somehting?

Edited October 13, 2010 by The Skeptic Eric Raven

[crystal sage]

Well, must be me, but I have learned differently.

Check Malta, French Brittany, Stonehenge, India, Sumer, Akkad, China, and so on.

Ignoring facts to be able to continue believing in some culture being superior, hmmmmm......

,

Back then... nothing appeared to be over 5000 years old.. it was a safe date.. to go with the religious teachings I gather...

[cormac mac airt]

Australia.. in the early 60's and 70's... It was really Puritan back then.

I recall being excited about the idea of dinosaurs.. but learning at Saturday school... Catholic... that we were not to listen.. as the 'buried dinosaur bones' were just placed there by God to test us.. in our belief of the teachings of the bible.. We had strict Nuns.. who loved using the strap.. and Teachers that had cleverly carved boxes with sliding lids that held assorted straps and canes that they liked taking out every day.

I remember being taught that Mars was very hot... over 700 degrees at it's coolest.. that nothing could survive there, and now we are close to colonizing Mars in the next few decades...

I do vaguely recall being taught Evolution... not as a reality.. but a philosophy..

Merely discussing evolution could get you a 'hiding' ( as we called it) from the Nuns ...

So to that effect... we were totally confused by the findings and amazing articles of our National Geographic collection.. and my Uncle's 'Plain Truth' magazines.....]

Ideas that floated in our minds.. for years, but were not to be discussed... Ideas that often surfaced.. but could only be fed by blending with other science fiction novels or movies...

While you never specified Australia, making a broad sweeping statement instead, neither Australia nor any part thereof speaks for the level of education from anywhere else on the globe, particularly in the 60's and 70's timeframe. I also went to school in the 60's and 70's: Germany twice (Darmstadt and Kaiserslautern), Kansas, West Virginia, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee and 2 locations in Texas. None of these schools were that backwards in education, nor should it be assumed they were anything more than typical. The point being that your education as regards ancient history should not be seen as typical of anyone elses.

cormac

[ShadowSot]

I'm 47 and even I know better than that. Nowhere was this train of thought presented as anywhere near true in the places I or my siblings went to school. Perhaps your educational system was sub-par.

I'm 22 and I know better.

Originally by Crystal Sage

What was it that you think ruined all his credibility??? I heard it was just one piece of phony pottery or something silly like that?

Well, where would you like to start?

His history for fraud started before he published his books. He was indicted for fraud in the '60's.

Soon after he published his books, he was charged for fraud and tax evasion by Interpol. He was also indicted for embezzlement.

he claimed to have been led to tunnels under Ecuador gold and statues, and library of tablets, supposedly containing evidence of alien visitation.

However, the fellow he spoke to came forward to say that it had been made up.

It's also important to look at how Doniken reacts when he's caught. Instead of printing a retraction, or going over it later, he ignores it.

He used the temple pole in India as an example of alien intervention, until it was debunked, he never to my knowledge retracted his claim about the Ecuadorian tunnels.

His books have been refuted wholesale, in example being The Space Gods Revealed, by Ronald Story.

As Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Something Von Daniken has yet to produce.

Neither has Stitchin for that matter.

He singlehandedly changed how we dare think of this world... our history forever!!!!

Yes, by encouraging people to ignore science and provable facts, for wanton speculation.

[Abramelin]

Back then... nothing appeared to be over 5000 years old.. it was a safe date.. to go with the religious teachings I gather...

Karnak, Brittany is 4000 BC or more.

That's 6000 years old to my reckoniong.

The megalyths in Malta are 5000 years old.

I have seen your posts about this, so I wonder why you conveniently forget about it.

Is it because you copy and post, but never actually read all that's written there??

That is what I think you do, and yoy are not ther only one here.

Skip past what doesn't appeal to you and copy and post what does.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Karnak, Brittany is 4000 BC or more.

That's 6000 years old to my reckoniong.

The megalyths in Malta are 5000 years old.

I have seen your posts about this, so I wonder why you conveniently forget about it.

Is it because you copy and post, but never actually read all that's written there??

That is what I think you do, and yoy are not ther only one here.

Skip past what doesn't appeal to you and copy and post what does.

Exactly. Nothing more then copy and paste with no care for whats true.

[Abramelin]

Exactly. Nothing more then copy and paste with no care for whats true.

Its good to hear from someone with a mind of his/her own.

I have wished many things to be true, believe me.

But eventually I found out I was wrong.

That sucks.....

It hurts too.

But that is the way things go in this world: we learn, and we get hurt by what we learn.

We have dreams, we have expatations, we have hopes.....and then scientific discoveries kick the shiiit out of what we have always hoped to be true.

.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Abramelin

[ShadowSot]

We have dreams, we have expatations, we have hopes.....and then scientific discoveries kick the shiiit out of what we have always hoped to be true.

I have to say, scientific discoveries have revealed to me a wonderful world, in some ways more amazing than the fantasies I let myself believe when I was younger.

Mostly, to me, was how scientists have been able to reveal the faces of our ancestors, and little scraps about their lives, bits of who they were.