Göbekli Tepe-10 000 BC

[lightly]

Interesting Jules and Flash, here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest. Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on. The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because they are not mother figures.. but maybe Father figures? er .. uh... sumpthin.

* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.

Edited February 18, 2011 by lightly

[Flashbangwollap]

Interesting Jules and Flash, here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest. Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on. The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because they are not mother figures.. but maybe Father figures? er .. uh... sumpthin.

* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.

Hi Lightly just googled but the name seems to have been added recently or do you have a source for the Menhir photo? I think that's what they call them when found on the Isles around the Med. Perhaps this is a Femehir.

Have a butchers at this!

http://www.flickr.co...@N00/4937849284

Sorry guys but cant find what was a photo of a circle or line of menhirs portrayed with swords etc I'll keep looking and if I find them I'll pop them on a separate post

Edited February 18, 2011 by Flashbangwollap

[Oniomancer]

The priests are the creators of animals, of new life. The purpose of the gatherings inside the stone circles, is the creation of new life, together with the great creators, the stone age priests.

One has the immediate impression that your biology has been sorely neglected.

[Oniomancer]

Interesting Jules and Flash, here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest. Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on. The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because they are not mother figures.. but maybe Father figures? er .. uh... sumpthin.

* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.

Now see, that at least looks like a person. Sort of. Or a weeble.

Speaking of menhirs, I could cite examples of representative megalithic statuary from the island of Corsica as flash alludes to, albeit with no hands. Given the evidence, the suggestion of extreme abstraction in the case of the Gobekli Tepe stones seems unlikely.

BTW, I believe the correct appellation here would be womenhirs.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Oniomancer

[Flashbangwollap]

Now see, that at least looks like a person. Sort of. Or a weeble.

Speaking of menhirs, I could cite examples of representative megalithic statuary from the island of Corsica as flash alludes to, albeit with no hands. Given the evidence, the suggestion of extreme abstraction in the case of the Gobekli Tepe stones seems unlikely.

BTW, I believe the correct appellation here would be womenhirs.

Hey come on the lady is from France Wee?

[lightly]

thanks oniomancer, I'm just learning about statue menhirs ..

http://www.languedoc-france.info/0314_dolmens.htm

Dolmens, hypogeums and menhirs were built about 3500-2000 BC in a strip through modern France from Brittany to the coast of the Mediterranean Sea.

Broadly speaking Menhirs are single prehistoric standing stones. The word menhir is of Celtic origin men "stone" and hir "long". Dolmens are more complex structures, often roofed passageways. The name is Celtic: from dol "table" and men "stone". The term Megalith is more general, and derives from the Greek mega "Great" and lithos "stone".

Dolmens are prehistoric tombs. Menhirs are generally thought to be religious symbols for a prehistoric fertility cult. In some cases they may be merely limit stones between different tribal territories. As elsewhere in Europe, many have been vandalised by Christians.

YA! the rascals ... there must have been SO many more standing stones and dolmens and so on.. It's fascinating that sort of thing went on for so long .. and was so widespread. Very important stuff.

Hey ya Flashbangwallop , that's an interesting site at Menorca .... on Menorca.. an island?? anyway.. pretty typical construction techniques for the times .. with the niches . The pilaster wall supports are pretty clever engineering.

we're heading back to GobekliTepe soon L

Edited February 18, 2011 by lightly

[Big Bad Voodoo]

It is not problem lightly. At least for me.

Maybe may next sentence is little fringe but Im gonna say it anyway.

Look at this image:

it is from this site: http://www.articlesafari.com/2011/01/gobekli-tepe-aryan-settlement113/

It seems to me that sculpture is hidding his genital organ. It looks like he is shamed. Like he is suddenly realize that he is naked.

Maybe it symbolize Adam.

Maybe Gobekli Tepe is Eden.

Edited February 18, 2011 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

So if these are supposed to be priests, why don't they look like priests instead of a bunch of flat slabs covered with assorted animal carvings?

Maybe because it has other purpose then just symbol of priest (?). For example building purpose.

[Swede]

Interesting Jules and Flash, here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest. Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on. The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because they are not mother figures.. but maybe Father figures? er .. uh... sumpthin.

* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.

Hi lightly! - Have been following the train of thought. A couple of things to consider:

The arm placement on the various representations may be nothing more than a matter of graphic functionality, meaning, you are working on a single, simply formed monolith with limited tooling. How else would one depict the upper limbs in an understandable and efficient manner? Keeping in mind, of course, that the representation of the arms and the hands would also be a very "human" distinguishing characteristic.

Given the rather extensive archaeological and ethnographic evidence for the use of beads (strings of) for personal adornment (possibly as early as Neanderthal), may not the "V" necks be representative of this aspect? The above photo would appear to be most consistent with such. Another factor that may be worth keeping in mind here. In addition to adornment, beads would appear to also have had a number of other connotations (wealth/status). Do to the mobile nature of earlier cultures, "wealth" had to be easily transportable. Even as late as the North American Fur Trade, it has been noted that a man/woman wore their wealth around their neck.

Just some thoughts.

.

[lightly]

Thank's Swede, for the info and for putting things into perspective. I was thinking on my way to work today that one of our more knowledgeable members might come along and clarify things in a paragraph or two. I suppose the hand placements and V necks aren't as mysterious or important as i might imagine . Still, they seem to repeat over great expanses of time and geography ..... La Dame de Saint-Sernin does show what could be necklaces in a draped , curving, manner . I'll try to find more examples of the sharper V neck look.... I just wonder if that might have had some other significance in the minds of the makers?

I appreciate your point about the graphic functionality of the hand placements. The repetitive pose seems somehow ceremonial and traditional to me ... from my admittedly imaginative layman's perspective that is.

And Yes L , the hands are found a bit further down on some examples... some exhibiting obvious or stylized "privates" Your idea about Adam and shame is interesting. I too was wondering about hands over procreative areas ... Wombs, in the case of Motherly figures. Much is attributed to fertility cults.. But i always wonder if there might sometimes be a more spiritual impetus involved ? As i was alluding to earlier... ideas of Soul and Life force portrayed in some poses? .. see? there i go again !

[Oniomancer]

Maybe because it has other purpose then just symbol of priest (?). For example building purpose.

A column or support can be figural and still serve it's function. I continue to find the idea of their being figurally representational in themselves to be uncompelling.

[jules99]

It is not problem lightly. At least for me.

Maybe may next sentence is little fringe but Im gonna say it anyway.

It seems to me that sculpture is hidding his genital organ. It looks like he is shamed. Like he is suddenly realize that he is naked.

Maybe it symbolize Adam.

Maybe Gobekli Tepe is Eden.

Hi the L;

Did you notice what appears to be a discolouration and a round hollow directly underneath his genitals. The hollow may have contained ochre or anything really I suppose that could have been smeared over the lucky recipient as part of a fertility rite or ritual. Thanks thats a really clear photo...Ive saved it.

With these stone carvings maybe tatoos might be drawn in also....the weeble lady looks like she has facial tattoos or whiskers.... unsure

Cheers

Edited February 19, 2011 by jules99

[Paracelse]

Interesting Jules and Flash, here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest. Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on. The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because they are not mother figures.. but maybe Father figures? er .. uh... sumpthin.

* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.

The statue is also called "La Dame" which could give you another hint

[Paracelse]

Hi Lightly just googled but the name seems to have been added recently or do you have a source for the Menhir photo? I think that's what they call them when found on the Isles around the Med. Perhaps this is a Femehir.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue-menhir

[Ove]

snip

Edited February 19, 2011 by Ove

[Ove]

The priests are the creators of animals, of new life. The purpose of the gatherings inside the stone circles, is the creation of new life, together with the great creators, the stone age priests.

One has the immediate impression that your biology has been sorely neglected.

Long before Göbekli Tepe, the stone age priests increased the number of animals, by drawing animals on cave walls and ceilings. Göbekli Tepe is just a continuation of this belief. In Göbekli Tepe people asked the saints (priests) for help, to increase the number of animals.

It's an even older belief, that everything (not just plants) comes out of the earth. That's way the priests went inside the earth (caves) to create animals.

Ove nice pics man. God sent you. Those "hands" are great. Belt buckle is interesting theory. I like theory about two high priests. About Stone cicles in general-there are many cicles around the world. From Amazonia, Europe, Australia and so on. We have two in my homeland Croatia.

I know, ...

Pozdrav !

Edited February 19, 2011 by Ove

[SHaYap]

Seems that they are still many sites in the Central Asia region from Turkey to Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan that's being lost to history. The discoveries suffers from lack of funding and the political troubles of the region.

mostly material of sites believed to be connected to Gobekli being part of a greater central Asia civilization

A large sophisticated civilization equal to Sumeria and Mesopotamia and thriving at the same time at least 5,000 years ago was lost in the harsh desert sands of the Soviet Union near the Iran and Afghanistan borders. But now details are beginning to emerge. ... he has some exquisite pottery shards .... from his recent excavations in the Kara Kum desert of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan on the Iran and Afghanistan borders.

.... discovered ancient ruins at Anau in southern Turkmenistan near Iran. .... working west of Afghanistan reported vast ruins, all built with the same distinct pattern of a central building surrounded by a series of walls. ... were found in Bactria and Margiana on the border that separates Afghanistan from Russia's Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. But nothing was reported beyond a few Soviet journals that were never translated.

.... discovered it is about 2,000 years older than the Bactria and Margiana sites further to the east, going back nearly seven thousand years to at least 4,500 B. C., or the Bronze Age. Not only are the oldest shards from there of high craftsmanship, .... also found a black rock carved with red-colored symbols that, to date, are unidentified but considered to be evidence of a literacy independent of Mesopotamia. The discovery is revolutionary to earlier academic thought that Sumeria was the first civilization with language.

here

Gonur-Tappeh was the capital – or imperial city, as he prefers to call it – of a complex, Bronze Age state – one that stretched at least a thousand square miles and encompassing hundreds of satellite settlements.

.... this society was so sophisticated that it should be considered the world’s fifth center of ancient civilization. This would add Murgab River society, officially known as the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex, to a more familiar list of cultural cradles of antiquity.

.... views have gained credence, particularly once his work became more accessible to the world upon the collapse of the Soviet Union.

here

here too

Not as impressive as Gobekli currently but there is till much to be excavated ...

[Flashbangwollap]

Seems that they are still many sites in the Central Asia region from Turkey to Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan that's being lost to history. The discoveries suffers from lack of funding and the political troubles of the region.

mostly material of sites believed to be connected to Gobekli being part of a greater central Asia civilization

here

here

here too

Not as impressive as Gobekli currently but there is till much to be excavated ...

OMG. That's a good find third eye. I wonder whether all this desertification is down to man or if there is some other reason?

[Ove]

Seems that they are still many sites in the Central Asia region from Turkey to Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan that's being lost to history. The discoveries suffers from lack of funding and the political troubles of the region.

mostly material of sites believed to be connected to Gobekli being part of a greater central Asia civilization

Nevali Çori (flooded by dam project) had the same statues as Göbekli Tepe

One of them even had a V-neck

Edited February 19, 2011 by Ove

[SHaYap]

OMG. That's a good find third eye. I wonder whether all this desertification is down to man or if there is some other reason?

can't say for sure ... still needs plenty of research to say one way or another

Nevali Çori (flooded by dam project) had the same statues as Göbekli Tepe

One of them even had a V-neck

that's a shame too but then again in some cases progress and ancient history can't be both on the same page

Edited February 19, 2011 by third_eye

[Oniomancer]

Long before Göbekli Tepe, the stone age priests increased the number of animals, by drawing animals on cave walls and ceilings. Göbekli Tepe is just a continuation of this belief. In Göbekli Tepe people asked the saints (priests) for help, to increase the number of animals.

It's an even older belief, that everything (not just plants) comes out of the earth. That's way the priests went inside the earth (caves) to create animals.

Sympathetic magic then. One problem.

AFAIK, few of the species depicted on the columns are game species. They're mostly vermin. Why would anyone make more of those? Even if one takes them to be charms against them, we're left once again with the fact that

the animals look like animals, very much so in most cases, and their distribution is consistent with decoration, but the columns significantly don't look like people when they were perfectly capable of making them so.

[SHaYap]

Sympathetic magic then. One problem.

AFAIK, few of the species depicted on the columns are game species. They're mostly vermin. Why would anyone make more of those? Even if one takes them to be charms against them, we're left once again with the fact that

the animals look like animals, very much so in most cases, and their distribution is consistent with decoration, but the columns significantly don't look like people when they were perfectly capable of making them so.

I see your point,

I've always wondered if the drawings are not unlike the trophies on the walls of the brave "Bwana Big Game Hunters" of today. Sort of like a record of who is he bigger badder hunter of the tribe.

The columns kinda reminds me of the Old Classic Japan China tribal banners,

Something representative of who the powers are and where

[Ove]

Another approach,

There were two main mythological figures at the time, the bird-man and the snake-man.

The bird-man was the connection to the upper-world, the snake-man was the connection to the underworld.

Göbekli Tepe snakes

The snake man (Nevali Çori)

Edited February 19, 2011 by Ove

[SHaYap]

I thought the older cultures and civilizations regard the serpent as associated with wisdom ?

That is before the biblical versions came and kicked up a fuss.

Interesting note : I just saw the "insect" an ANT perhaps?

the overall design of the ANT does look similar to the Nasca spider doesn't it ?

*edit* ant and spider

Edited February 19, 2011 by third_eye

[lightly]

Hi the L;

Did you notice what appears to be a discolouration and a round hollow directly underneath his genitals. The hollow may have contained ochre or anything really I suppose that could have been smeared over the lucky recipient as part of a fertility rite or ritual. Thanks thats a really clear photo...Ive saved it.

With these stone carvings maybe tatoos might be drawn in also....the weeble lady looks like she has facial tattoos or whiskers.... unsure

Cheers

... Jules, pardon me for responding to a question addressed to L ok? The ochre dispenser is intriguing ... I think your onto something...

It seems i was wrong in thinking of our friend as a priestly figure ... but maybe not so much ? .. maybe he is more like a fertility saint/priest, Idol or God. Maybe you prayed to him for children and got the ochre/Blood blessing to seal the deal ... or something along those lines??

Edited February 19, 2011 by lightly