[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[The Puzzler]

Thought this was interesting and could go toward some resoning of how much archaeological evidence was lost -

this is a different pdf file - http://www.waddensea-secretariat.org/lancewad/report/chap4.5_NL-1.pdf

The dwelling mounds were in the past raised using grass sods, domestic

waste and manure. An extremely fertile mix, for which there was a

sudden and real need when in the 19th century large areas of the moor

and cutaways on the sandy soils were opened up for [agricultural] use.

The fertility of the poor sandy soils was increased by adding terp earth

to the topsoil and this also improved the water-retaining capacity of

the soil. To bring one hectare of sandy soil into cultivation required

around 120 tons (80 cubic meters) of terp or wierde earth4.

Terps and wierdes were dug up on a large scale and the earth was

transported to the sandy area by tjalk. It was a profitable round trip for

the bargees. It was a huge assault on the terps: large parts of terps,

and sometimes entire terps, were dug up and distributed over the

sandy areas. In some cases houses were broken up and rebuilt after the

terp was dug out. The churches and churchyards were usually spared,

but there are stories of digging so close to the churchyard that bones

protruded from the steep wall. Needless to say, a treasure-house of

archaeological information was lost.

Only the very unusual finds, such as the silver treasure of Winsum

(Fryslân), were publicised, but no thought was given to less valuable

things, such as pottery, never mind organic deposits and organic

residues. This changed when the professional archaeologists started

taking an interest in the terp and wierde district. Prof. A.E. van Giffen

acquired international fame with his excavation of the Ezinge wierde.

The excavation was partly financed by the sale of the terp earth….

This wall, I noted, was bought up in Abe's Doggerland thread and I think the original info came from Spanuth and maybe Time Mag covered it on June 2008 I dunno but I do think the magazine was talking about what Spanuth had found. You added a link and Spanuth gives the measurements of this wall...

"What do you see?" Pastor Spanuth asked him over the telephone.

"I see a wall," said the diver.

While the stenographer wrote it down, Pastor Spanuth leaned against the gunwale, breathing hard. Plato, he was sure now, had guided him to the right spot.

In four more days of diving and note-taking, Spanuth found that his wall encircled an oval area 1,012 yards long and 328 yards across. Inside were irregularities that might very well be the ruins of buildings long covered by the sand. One of these buildings, Spanuth is convinced, will prove to be the palace of the Kings of Atlantis.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,935699,00.html#ixzz1IpppnUBA

What else does anyone know about this wall that Spanuth said he saw and measured...?

Edited April 7, 2011 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

I'm working on finding it don't worry...

-----------

Cornelia Ja¨ger

Astrophysikalisches Institut, Friedrich-Schiller-Universita¨t Jena, Jena, Germany

Received 31 May 2002; revised 24 September 2002; accepted 24 September 2002; published 10 December 2002.

[1] A common paradigm is that chernozem soils developed in the Holocene under

grassland steppes, with their formation largely determined by three factors, parent

material, climate and faunal mixing. For European chernozems, however, pollen records

show that steppes were rare. Here, using high-resolution transmission electron

microscopy, electron energy loss spectroscopy, micro Raman spectroscopy and

radiocarbon dating, we characterized the nanomorphology and chemical structure of soil

organic carbon (SOC) from central European chernozems. We identified submicron

remnants of burned biomass (1545 percent of SOC), coexisting as amorphous charblack

carbon (BC) derived from pyrolized cellulose or soot-BC. The BC was several

millenia in age (11605040 carbon-14 years) and up to 3990 radiocarbon years older than

bulk SOC, indicating significant residence times for BC in soils. These results challenge

common paradigms on chernozem formation and add fire as an important novel factor. It

is also clear that the role of fire in soil formation has been underestimated outside classical

fire prone biomes. Furthermore, our results demonstrate the importance of quantifying

BC in soils because of its large contribution, longevity and potential role in the global

biogeochemical carbon cycle. INDEX TERMS: 1055 Geochemistry: Organic geochemistry; 1615

Global Change: Biogeochemical processes (4805); 4805 Oceanography: Biological and Chemical:

Biogeochemical cycles (1615); KEYWORDS: black carbon, soil organic matter, high resolution transmission

electron spectroscopy, Raman

---------------

http://www.geo.uzh.ch/~mschmidt/downloads/2002GB001939.pdf

OK, I will bet you will find proof of fires, but all over Europe and maybe Russia, at the same time, around 2200 BC??

And all that combined with floods, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, lands sinking under the sea, mountains rising from the plains, rivers changing direction and so on.

ALL THAT HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME (2200 BC).

What you found is proof of there being fires. What I was talking about is a LAYER of carbon, over a very large area, and dating from the same time, indicating one single event.

.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

see post 4180.

.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

OK, I will bet you will find proof of fires, but all over Europe and maybe Russia, at the same time, around 2200 BC??

And all that combined with floods, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, lands sinking under the sea, mountains rising from the plains, rivers changing direction and so on.

ALL THAT HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME (2200 BC).

What you found is proof of there being fires. What I was talking about is a LAYER of carbon, over a very large area, and dating from the same time, indicating one single event.

.

That's true and I explained it was not absolute proof of anything but you asked for info on carbon in Europe in the time period of the OLB and I gave it, the information and answers you are requiring I doubt is available.

[Abramelin]

That's true and I explained it was not absolute proof of anything but you asked for info on carbon in Europe in the time period of the OLB and I gave it, the information and answers you are requiring I doubt is available.

Heh, no you didn't.

I asked for proof of there being a carbon layer dating from 2200 BC, and from all over Europe and maybe Russia.

No time-period, but a single DATE.

And a LAYER of carbon, not carbon mixed with soil.

But good try, nevertheless.

[Abramelin]

Thought this was interesting and could go toward some resoning of how much archaeological evidence was lost -

this is a different pdf file - http://www.waddensea-secretariat.org/lancewad/report/chap4.5_NL-1.pdf

The dwelling mounds were in the past raised using grass sods, domestic

waste and manure. An extremely fertile mix, for which there was a

sudden and real need when in the 19th century large areas of the moor

and cutaways on the sandy soils were opened up for [agricultural] use.

The fertility of the poor sandy soils was increased by adding terp earth

to the topsoil and this also improved the water-retaining capacity of

the soil. To bring one hectare of sandy soil into cultivation required

around 120 tons (80 cubic meters) of terp or wierde earth4.

Terps and wierdes were dug up on a large scale and the earth was

transported to the sandy area by tjalk. It was a profitable round trip for

the bargees. It was a huge assault on the terps: large parts of terps,

and sometimes entire terps, were dug up and distributed over the

sandy areas. In some cases houses were broken up and rebuilt after the

terp was dug out. The churches and churchyards were usually spared,

but there are stories of digging so close to the churchyard that bones

protruded from the steep wall. Needless to say, a treasure-house of

archaeological information was lost.

Only the very unusual finds, such as the silver treasure of Winsum

(Fryslân), were publicised, but no thought was given to less valuable

things, such as pottery, never mind organic deposits and organic

residues. This changed when the professional archaeologists started

taking an interest in the terp and wierde district. Prof. A.E. van Giffen

acquired international fame with his excavation of the Ezinge wierde.

The excavation was partly financed by the sale of the terp earth….

This wall, I noted, was bought up in Abe's Doggerland thread and I think the original info came from Spanuth and maybe Time Mag covered it on June 2008 I dunno but I do think the magazine was talking about what Spanuth had found. You added a link and Spanuth gives the measurements of this wall...

"What do you see?" Pastor Spanuth asked him over the telephone.

"I see a wall," said the diver.

While the stenographer wrote it down, Pastor Spanuth leaned against the gunwale, breathing hard. Plato, he was sure now, had guided him to the right spot.

In four more days of diving and note-taking, Spanuth found that his wall encircled an oval area 1,012 yards long and 328 yards across. Inside were irregularities that might very well be the ruins of buildings long covered by the sand. One of these buildings, Spanuth is convinced, will prove to be the palace of the Kings of Atlantis.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,935699,00.html#ixzz1IpppnUBA

What else does anyone know about this wall that Spanuth said he saw and measured...?

Read this page on the Doggerland thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179840&st=495

And scroll down to post 501 (4 july, 2010).

No walls, alas. Submerged ancient sand dunes, ok.

They have dived in that area, and never found anything Spanuth was talking about.

.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

What would be interesting is if we could find ANY date that showed the evidences of all those at once.

[Abramelin]

Abe - Concerning Stavia, Lindahem and Luidgarda. I agree with Alewyn that Stavia is Staveren. I have spent all night studying maps of Friesland, the IJsselmeer, Rhine and Denmark and the German Bight as well as Alewyn's map of Flyland and trying to make sense of some things.

Now if we consider that:

These are the Grevetmen under whose direction this book is composed:—

Apol, Adela’s husband; three times a sea-king; Grevetman of Ostflyland and Lindaoorden. The towns Liudgarda, Lindahem, and Stavia are under his care.

(List of the rest follows)

and consider that Stavia is Staveren, why would Luidgarda and Lindahem be anywhere other than right near Staveren??

Lindahem sounds to me like it may have just disappeared into the sea, exactly what they said, it was in East Flyland or even out into the Wadden Sea. Since Staveren is on the North of this old Flyland, the (IJsselmeer according to Alewyn) I'd assume myself the other two towns would also be nearby. Not off somewhere else in Germany or Switzerland.

Of course, the first thing I did was looking for names in Groningen, Friesland, Noordholland, and all the coastal areas (including those of Denmark, N/W Germany).

But - how's that in English - we may be on a wild goose chase because we assume all these names are true names, or that they were not picked from the index of an old Atlas, with the only requirement that the names started with 'Lind'...

Well, I did find 2 candidates for the Lindaoorden: one is a villa ("Buitenhuis Lindenoord") in Wolvega, Westellingwerf (Friesland), near the Linde river, a villa where a grevetman once lived, Willen van Haren, a poet who wrote about Friso, the other is an area in southern Sweden (Skenland) that is famous for it's nature and bronze age structures.

For Lindahem I found a very interesting candidate, one which became famous because it 'vanished' without a trace.. which is what is said about the OLB Lindahem (and that's the only thinkg the OLB tells us about it). Then one Lindahem that was near 'Lindegrunden', which is nothing more than an area with linde/lime trees, Lindeoorden. And one in northern Germany, near Ahrensburg, one Lindahem which may have been close to an ancient bronze age fort. (see the pics I posted).

Btw, that last Lindahem (Lindenheim) is close to the Lindeoorden in southern Sweden, had something of a citadel/burch nearby (which is gone), and close enough to the Kattegat to have been flooded in the distant or not so distant past.

.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

Read this page on the Doggerland thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179840&st=495

And scroll down to post 501 (4 july, 2010).

No walls, alas. Submerged ancient sand dunes, ok.

They have dived in that area, and never found anything Spanuth was talking about.

.

They dive in the Bermuda Triangle too and don't find what they should...

The current of the Atlantic is very powerful.

But OK, for now, it seems Spanuth either made it up or was seeing things, either way I find hard to believe but I'll leave it at that. I showed earlier on in this thread that the German Bight and Heligoland was submerged c. 2500BC, which I thought was pretty close to the time.

[The Puzzler]

Of course, the first thing I did was looking for names in Groningen, Friesland, Noordholland, and all the coastal areas (including those of Denmark, N/W Germany).

But - how's that in English - we may be on a wild goose chase because we assume all these names are true names, or that they were not picked from the index of an old Atlas, with the only requirement that the names started with 'Lind'...

Well, I did find 2 candidates for the Lindaoorden: one is a villa ("Buitenhuis Lindenoord") in Wolvega, Westellingwerf (Friesland), near the Linde river, a villa where a grevetman once lived, Willen van Haren, a poet who wrote about Friso, the other is an area in southern Sweden (Skenland) that is famous for it's narure and bronze age structures.

For Lindahem I found a very interesting candidate, one which became famous because it 'vanished' without a trace.. which is what is said about the OLB Lindahem (and that's the only thinkg the OLB tells us about it). Then one Lindahem that was near 'Lindegrunden', which is nothing more than an area with linde/lime trees, Lindeoorden. And one in northern Germany, near Ahrensburg, one Lindahem which may have been close to an ancient bronze age fort. (see the pics I posted).

Btw, that last Lindahem (Lindenheim) is close to the Lindeoorden in southern Sweden, had something of a citadel/burch nearby (which is gone), and close enough to the Kattegat to have been flooded in the distant or not so distant past.

.

What Lindeoorden in Sweden?

Lindahem was in Apol's juristiction and must have been near Lindeoorden - near/in the Linde Wood/Forest. Near Stavris/Staveren and in the area of Flyland.

It was vanished it said, under the sea, so why are you looking for it????

Edited an error I made and to add this, the mention of the vanishment of Lindahem isn't the only mention of it...

--Apol, Adela’s husband; three times a sea-king; Grevetman of Ostflyland and Lindaoorden. The towns Liudgarda, Lindahem, and Stavia are under his care.

Edited April 7, 2011 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

What Lindeoorden in Sweden?

Lindahem was in Apol's juristiction and must have been near Lindeoorden - near/in the Linde Wood/Forest. Near Stavris/Staveren and in the area of Flyland.

It was vanished it said, under the sea, so why are you looking for it????

Edited an error I made and to add this, the mention of the vanishment of Lindahem isn't the only mention of it...

--Apol, Adela’s husband; three times a sea-king; Grevetman of Ostflyland and Lindaoorden. The towns Liudgarda, Lindahem, and Stavia are under his care.

Oh really? "Under the sea"? No, it says it was never found again.

Same thing with that 'Lindashem' in Germany..it vanished. But it didn't, it was just a legend.

[The Puzzler]

Oh really? "Under the sea"? No, it says it was never found again.

Same thing with that 'Lindashem' in Germany..it vanished. But it didn't, it was just a legend.

In the context of the whole sentence it sounds like it means under the sea to me, it's completely gone, the Lindeoorden is partially covered by the sea and north Lindgaarden is concealed by sea. You said it was the only mention of it in the OLB and it's not, the other context is with Apol.

My father has written how the Lindaoorden and Liudgaarden were destroyed. Lindahem is still lost, the Lindaoorden partially, and the north Lindgaarden are still concealed by the salt sea. The foaming sea washes the ramparts of the castle. As my father has mentioned, the people, being deprived of their harbour, went away and built houses inside the ramparts of the citadel; therefore that bastion is called Lindwerd. The sea-people say Linwerd, but that is nonsense.

[Abramelin]

In the context of the whole sentence it sounds like it means under the sea to me, it's completely gone, the Lindeoorden is partially covered by the sea and north Lindgaarden is concealed by sea. You said it was the only mention of it in the OLB and it's not, the other context is with Apol.

My father has written how the Lindaoorden and Liudgaarden were destroyed. Lindahem is still lost, the Lindaoorden partially, and the north Lindgaarden are still concealed by the salt sea. The foaming sea washes the ramparts of the castle. As my father has mentioned, the people, being deprived of their harbour, went away and built houses inside the ramparts of the citadel; therefore that bastion is called Lindwerd. The sea-people say Linwerd, but that is nonsense.

Yes, ok, the only mention of it's location.

I know, even Minno died there:

USEFUL EXTRACTS FROM THE WRITINGS LEFT BY MINNO.

Minno was an ancient sea-king. He was a seer and a philosopher, and he gave laws to the Cretans. He was born at Lindaoord, and after all his wanderings he had the happiness to die at Lindahem.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#an

--

But I think we both look at this manuscript with different eyes.

I think that if the writers needed inspiration, they used anything. So, a "Lindashem" that disappeared (under the sea) may have never existed at all, but yeah, the idea came from an old legend about a Lindenheim that vanished.

And about that play with names: this Manna-garda forda is said to be Münster. On what is that conclusion based?? I know the name Münster came from 'monastery'.

++

Ah, got it:

Early history

In 793 Charlemagne sent out as missionary the Frisian Liudger (later canonized) to convert the Saxons with whom he had been battling, offering as headquarters his recently demolished Frankish stronghold of Mimigernaford ("ford over the Aa river"), at the crossroads of the road from Cologne and the road to Frisia. Liudger was a product of Utrecht and the York school of Ethelbert, which produced many of the clerics who served in Charlemagne's chancelry. He built his church and cloister on the right bank of the Aa, on the height called the Horsteberg: it was the monastery ("monasterium") from which Münster derives its name. In 805 Liudger travelled to Rome to be ordained the first bishop of Münster, and soon founded a school (The Gymnasium Paulinum is believed to have been founded as the monastery school in 797). The combination of ford and crossroad, marketplace, episcopal administration center, library and school, established Münster as an important center

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster

Edited April 7, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

It's not that I haven't considered the most logical location for these Lindaoorden and Lindashem, and so on, based on that Stavia story:

Texel, 3200 BC (check the forest):

The same area now:

Area between Texel and Wieringen (dark green = forest, same forest as in other pic), around 1200 AD:

If you want to know more about that forest, Google "Creiler Woud" or "Creiler Bos" or "Kreiler Bos", and so on.

That forest was still there around 1200 AD.. and may not even have been a real forest, only shrubs.

In that area was also a 'lost city' called "Grebbe" (near Wieringen).

But according to others it wasn't even a city, just a couple of farms.

And there are SO MANY drowned cities and villages in the north of the Netherlands, that you will always find a candidate for the OLB. But alas, none of them fit the OLB timeframe.

.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Abramelin

[Alewyn]

A touch of De Ja Vou (However it's spelt ?Gawd I hate this American /English dictionary!)

Déjà vu

[The Puzzler]

It's not that I haven't considered the most logical location for these Lindaoorden and Lindashem, and so on, based on that Stavia story:

That forest was still there around 1200 AD.. and may not even have been a real forest, only shrubs.

In that area was also a 'lost city' called "Grebbe" (near Wieringen).

But according to others it wasn't even a city, just a couple of farms.

And there are SO MANY drowned cities and villages in the north of the Netherlands, that you will always find a candidate for the OLB. But alas, none of them fit the OLB timeframe.

.

What time frame would that be you are looking to find these towns? Particularly Lindahem?

This part is interesting, it tells us that the Jutlanders of Jutland came from the Baltic, and were driven down the Kattegat to Denmark, they stayed there and called it Jutland. In my opinion those people had been the amber collectors, the Juttens, they had been at the far East of the Baltic at first.

After the great flood of which my father wrote an account, there came many Jutlanders and Letlanders out of the Baltic, or bad sea. They were driven down the Kattegat in their boats by the ice as far as the coast of Denmark, and there they remained. There was not a creature to be seen; so they took possession of the land, and named it after themselves, Jutland.

The people of the east in Poland and around Gdansk entered Denmark and stayed.

That may be the first arrival of the Aesir into Vanir territory and these people imo became the later Vikings. They may have had prior contact with the Mediterranean and other areas through amber trade in prior times. They were the people who traded amber from the Vistula mouth. How about that, they entered Jutland and stayed, naming it.

--------

I understand also that Apol, son of Apol, husband of Adela built Lindasburgt, but I can't see Lindeoorde(n) there...

My name is Apollonia. Two-and-thirty days after my mother’s death my brother Adelbrost was found murdered on the wharf, his skull fractured and his limbs torn asunder. My father, who lay ill, died of fright. Then my younger brother, Apol, sailed from here to the west side of Schoonland. There he built a citadel named Lindasburgt, in order there to avenge our wrong.

Edited April 7, 2011 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

What time frame would that be you are looking to find these towns? Particularly Lindahem?

At least a couple of centuries BC.

All the recorded or mythological drowned villages and cities in that area date from many centuries later.

Btw, here's a chronology of the events in the OLB:

APPENDIX A-2: CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

[Otharus]

Another clue I found that Viking is derived from Vitking meaning (primarily) Seaking:

The origins of the Rus' Khaganate are unclear. The first Scandinavian settlers of the region arrived in the lower basin of the Volkhov River in the mid-8th century. The country comprising the present-day Saint-Petersburg, Novgorod, Tver, Yaroslavl, and Smolensk regions became known in Old Norse sources as "Gardarike", the land of forts. Norse warlords, known to the Turkic-speaking steppe peoples as "köl-beki" or "sea-kings", came to dominate some of the region's Finno-Ugric and Slavic peoples, particularly along the Volga trade route linking the Baltic Sea with the Caspian Sea and Serkland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Vikings

If Norse warlords in another language were known as "sea-kings", then why not in their own, or that of their ancestors, as made plausible by OLB?

Edited April 7, 2011 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Meta-physics in the OLB ~ the word "GÁST" (ghost or spirit)

Dutch: geest

German: Geist

This word is mostly used in the OLB in the context of the 'Worldghost' or 'Spirit of the Over-old-one' (WR-ALDA'S GÁST). See fragments nr. {1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,13,16,19,20,21,23,24,27}

And once refering to Frya's ghost or spirit: {18}

In the context of a (living) human spirit or mind: {4,12,17,20,21,22,23,28}

Refering to bad or evil spirits: {10,11,26}

And to spirits of the dead in general: {25}

As an element of the word BIGÁSTERET or BIGÁSTERED (inspired, enchanted, excited): {14,15} The Dutch version "begeesterd" is very old-fashioned and hardly ever used anymore, but the German version "begeisterd" is still commonly used.

I wonder if there's an etymological relation to the word "guest" (Dutch: gast).

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

As usual:

[.../..] = page and line in original manuscript

[O+S p.__] = pagenumber Ottema and Sandbach translations (1876)

some suggested corrections or changes and comments by me between [...]

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

1. [011/18] Tex Frya's

SÁHWERSA THJU NÉD ÀRG SY.

ÀND GODE RÉD ÀND GODE DÉD NAWET MÁR NE FORMÜGE

HROP THÀN THI GÁST WR.ALDAS AN

[O+S p.19]

Zoo wanneer de nood erg is,

en goede raad en goede daad niets meer vermogen,

roep dan den geest van Wralda aan

When in dire distress,

and when mental and physical energy avail nothing,

then have recourse to the spirit of Wr-alda

[or: when the need is bad,

and good counsil and good deeds don't help,

call for Wralda's ghost]

2. [011/26] Tex Frya's

WR.ALDAS GÁST MÉI MÀN ALLÉNA

KNIBUWGJANDE TÁNK TOWÍA

[O+S p.21]

Wraldas geest mag men alleen

kniebuigende [of: knielende] dank toewijden

To Wr-alda's spirit only shall you [one]

bend the knee in gratitude

[or: offer kneeling thanks]

3. [012/06] Tex Frya's

NIM NÀMMAR KNI.BUWGJANDE TÁNK FON.JV NÉSTON ÁN.

THJUS ÁGATH WRALDA.S GÁST

[O+S p.21]

Neem nimmer kniebuigende [(=knielende) dank] van uwen naaste[n] dank aan,

deze behoort aan Wraldas geest

Let not your neighbour express his thanks to you on bended knee,

which is only due to Wr-alda's spirit

[or: Never accept kneeling thanks from your relatives.

This belongs to Wralda's ghost]

4. [031/29] Skriftum Minno's

THÉRA. HWAM.HIS GÁST THÀT LESTIGOSTE SY. ÀND THÉRTRVCH STERIK.

THAM.HIS HÔNE KRÉIATH KÉNING.

ÀND THA ÔRA MOTON ALWENNA AN SIN WELD VNDER.WURPEN WÉSA

TIL EN ÔTHER KVMTH THÉR.IM FON.A SÉTEL DRÍWET

[O+S p.47]

Diegene wiens geest het listigste is en daardoor sterk,

diens haan kraait koning

en de andere moeten allerwege aan zijn wil onderworpen wezen,

totdat een ander komt die hem van den zetel verdrijft

Whoever is the most crafty crows over the others,

and tries to make them submit to him,

till another comes who drives him off his perch

[or: the one who's ghost is most cunning, and therefore strong,

his rooster crows: "king",

and the others will have to submit to him,

until another comes who chases him from his seat]

5. [032/18] Skriftum Minno's

THESSA NIGUNG HÀVATH WI TRVCH WR.ALDA.S GÁST. VSA FODERS.

THÉR IN FRYAS BERN BOGTH

THÉRVM BE SKIL HJU VS ÁK ÉVG BIKLÍWA

[O+S p.47]

Deze neiging hebben wij door den geest van Wralda onzen vader [voeder],

die luide spreekt in Fryas kinderen [boogt, pocht, praalt?].

Daarom zal die [ons] ook eeuwig beklijven.

We derive this disposition from the spirit of our father Wr-alda [our feeder],

which speaks strongly [shines?] in Frya's children,

and will eternally remain so

[or: therefore it shall always stay with us]

6. [032/21] Skriftum Minno's

ÉWA IS ÁK THET ÔRA SINNA.BYLD FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST.

THÉR ÉVG RJUCHT ÀND VN.FORSTOREN. BILIWATH

AFSKÉN.ET AN SIN LICHÉME ÀRG TO GÉIT

[O+S p.47]

Ewa (eeuwig [of: even, recht]) is ook het andere zinnebeeld van Wralda['s geest],

die eeuwig recht en onverstoord blijft,

ofschoon het in zijn ligchaam erg toe gaat

Eternity [Ewa or even (right)] is another symbol of Wr-alda['s ghost],

who [that] remains always just and unchangeable [undisturbed or calm]

[even when its body is shaken badly?]

7. [033/02] Skriftum Minno's

IS THÉR ENG KWÁD DÉN

HWÉRVR NÉN ÉWA TAVLIKT SEND

SA MOT MÀN ÉNE MÉNA ACHT BILIDSA

THÉR ORDÉLTH MÀN NÉI THA SIN

THÉR WR.ALDA.S GÁST AN VS KÉTH

VMBE OVER ELLA RJUCHT.FÉRDICH TO BIRJUCHTANDE

[O+S p.49]

Is er eenig kwaad bedreven,

waaromtrent geene wetten gemaakt zijn,

zoo moet men eene algemeene vergadering beleggen,

daar oordeelt men naar den zin,

dien Wraldas geest in ons spreekt,

om over alles rechtvaardig te oordeelen

If any crime is committed

respecting which no law has been made,

a general assembly of the people shall be called,

where judgment shall be pronounced

in accordance with the inspiration of Wr-alda's spirit

[or: there one decides in the way

that Wralda's ghost speaks to us,

to judge right over all]

8. [035/23] Skriftum Minno's ~ 2

MEN IK NE KÀN NÉNE GODA THÉR ÀRG.DVANDE SEND.

THÉRVMBE NE KAN IK NAVT FRÉJA JEF HJA BETER WRDA WILLA.

IK KÀN ÉN GODE. THÀT IS WRALDAS GÁST.

MEN THRVCH THAM ER GOD IS. DVATH.ER ÁK NEN KWÁD

[O+S p.51]

maar ik ken geene goden [of: goeden] die kwaaddoende zijn,

daarom kan ik niet vragen of zij beter willen worden.

Ik ken slechts een goede, dat is Wralda’s geest,

maar omdat hij goed is, doet hij ook geen kwaad

[but] I know no gods [or: good ones] that do evil,

therefore I cannot ask them to do [if they want to become] better.

I only know one good spirit, that is Wr-alda's [spirit];

and [but] as he is good he never does evil

9. [045/21] about the Jol-signs

WY MÜGON WRALDA ÉVG THANK TOWYA

THÀT HI SIN GÁST SA HERDE.

INVR VSA ÉTHLA HETH FÁRA LÉTN

[O+S p.65]

Wij mogen Wralda eeuwig dank wijden,

dat hij zijn geest zoo krachtig

over onze voorvaderen heeft laten varen

We may be eternally thankful to Wr-alda

that he allowed his spirit to exercise

such an influence over our forefathers

[or: to sail so strongly in our elders]

10. [052/02] Arrival of the Magjara

FORTH NE SEND HJA NAVT TO BINYDANE.

HWAND HJA SEND SLÁVONA FON THA PRESTERUM

ÀND JETA FÜL ÀRGER FON HJARA MÉNINGA.

HJA MÉNATH THAT ELLA FVL KVADA GÁSTON IS.

THÉR INDA MÀNNISKA ÀND DJARA GLUPPE.

MEN FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST NÉTON HJA NAWET

[O+S p.73]

Voorts zijn zij niet te benijden,

want zij zijn slaven van hunne [de] priesters,

maar [en] nog veel meer [erger] van hunne meeningen.

Zij meenen, dat alles vol is van booze [kwade] geesten [is],

die in de menschen en dieren sluipen;

maar van Wraldas geest weten zij niets

But still [furthermore] they are not to be envied,

because they are slaves to their priests,

and still more [worse] to their creeds.

They believe that evil spirits abound everywhere,

and enter [that sneak] into men [people] and beasts [animals],

but of Wr-alda's spirit they know nothing

11. [052/] Arrival of the Magjara

THA MÁGJARA TELLATH

THAT HJA THA ÀRGE GÁSTON BANNA ÀND VRBANNA MÜGON.

THÉR.VR IS.T FOLK ÔLAN IN ANGE FRÉSE

ÀND VPPERA WÉSA NIS NINMER NÉN BLÍDSKIP TO BISJAN

[O+S p.75]

De Magyaren verhalen [vertellen],

dat zij de booze [erge] geesten kunnen bannen en verbannen,

daarover is het volk steeds in bange vrees,

en op hun gelaat [wezen] is nimmer vrolijkheid [blijdschap] te zien

The Magyars affirm

that they can exorcise and recall the evil spirits,

and this frightens the people,

[because of this, the people always live in terrible fear]

so that you never see a cheerful face

[or: and on their faces joy is never to be seen]

12. [054/20] History of Wodin

THENE MÁGÍ HETH FÜL RIKDOM.

MEN HI HETH SJAN

THAT FRYA WELDIGER IS

AS AL VSA GÁSTON ET SÉMINE

[O+S p.77]

De Magy heeft vele rijkdommen [enkelvoud],

maar hij heeft gezien,

dat Frya veel machtiger is

als alle onze geesten te zamen

The Magy possesses great riches,

but he has seen

that Frya is much more powerful

than all our spirits together

13. [055/18] History of Wodin

ÀFTENÉI WÀRTH.I MITH KRÚDON BIRÉKAD.

MEN THÉR WÉRON TAWER.KRÚDON MONG.

HWAND WODIN WARTH BI GRÁDUM ALSA SÉR VRMÉTEN.

THAT.I FRYA ÀND WR.ALDAS GÁST MIS.KÀNA ÀND SPOTA THVRADE.

THAWÍLA HI SIN FRYA HALS BOG

TOFARA FALSKA DROCHTEN.LIKANDE BYLDUM

[O+S p.79]

Daarop werd hij met kruiden berookt,

doch er waren tooverkruiden onder;

want Wodin werd trapsgewijze zoo zeer vermetel,

dat hij Frya en Wraldas geest durfde miskennen en bespotten,

terwijl hij zijn vrije hals boog

voor de valsche gedrochtelijke [of: afgoden-gelijkende] beelden

Whereupon he was incensed with herbs;

but they [some of them] were magic herbs,

and [as Wodin] by degrees he became so audacious

that he dared to disavow and ridicule [Frya and] the spirits of Frya and Wr-alda,

while he bent his free head

before the false and deceitful images [of idols]

14. [059/28] History of Tunis and Inka

THI GRÉVA.MAN FON WEST.FLÍ.LAND.

WÀRTH THRVCH AL THESSA THINGA BIGÁSTERET

[O+S p.83]

De grevetman [of: graaf] van Westflyland

werd door al deze dingen verrukt [of: begeesterd]

which so enchanted the Grevetman of Westflyland

[or: the reeve of Westflyland

was inspired by all these things]

15. [065/05] Kalta and Minerva

MEN THAT VRDRVNKEN FOLK WAS ALTHUS DÉNERA BIGÁSTERED

THAT.ET VR SIN RÉDE NAVT MOCHT TO WÁKANE

[O+S p.91]

maar het beschonken volk was zoo opgewonden [of: begeesterd],

dat het over zijne rede niet vermocht te waken

but the drunken people were so excited [or: inspired]

that they did not stop to weigh what they had heard

[or: that they could not watch over their reason]

16. [072/16] About the Gertmanna

MEN WI NILDON MIN.ERVA NAVT AS ÉNE GODENE NAVT BIKÀNNA

NÉIDAN HJA SELVA SEID HÉDE

THAT NIMMAN GOD JEFTA FVLKVMA WÉSA NE KVNDE

THÀN WR.ALDA.S. GÁST

[O+S p.101]

Maar wij wilden Minerva niet als eene Godin [of: Goede, Volkomene] erkennen,

naardien zij zelve ons gezegd had,

dat niemand goed of volkomen kon wezen,

als Wraldas geest

But we would not recognise Min-erva as a goddess [or: good-one, perfect-one],

because she herself had told us

that no one could be perfectly good [or perfect]

except the spirit of Wr-alda

17. [073/06] About the Gertmanna

AN ÉGIPTALANDA THÉR WÉRE EN OVER.PRESTER.

HEL FON ÁGNUM. KLÁR FON BRYN ÀND LICHT FON GÁST.

SIN NÁM WÉRE SÉKROPS

[O+S p.103]

een Egyptenaar die een overpriester was,

helder van oogen, klaar van brein, en verlicht van geest,

zijn naam was Cecrops

an Egyptian [who was a] high priest,

bright of eye, clear of brain, and enlightened of mind [or: light of spirit],

whose name was Cecrops

18. [078/05] Ulysus' scribe about Athenja

ALSA NÁKA THÉR JETA.N STRÉL FON FRYA.S GÁST WELDANDE WÉRE

WÀRTH AL ET BVW.SPUL TO MÉNA WERKA FORWROCHTEN

ÀND NIMMÀN NE MACHT EN HUS TO BVWANDE

THÀT RUMER ÀND RIKKER WÉRE AS THÀT SINRA NÉSTUM

[O+S p.109]

Alzoo lang er nog een straal van Fryas geest opwelde [heersend was],

werd al de bouwstof tot gemeene werken verarbeid,

en niemand mocht een huis bouwen,

dat ruimer en rijker was als dat van zijn buurman [naasten]

As long as a ray of Frya's spirit existed [ruled],

all the building materials were for common use,

and no one might build a house

larger or better [richer] than [that of] his neighbours [or: next-ones]

19. [098/12] Form-lere (first, oldest or formal learning or doctrine)

WR.ALDA IS OVERAL AINWARDICH.

MEN NARNE TO BISJA.

THÉRVMBE WÀRTH HETH WÉSA GÁST HÉTEN

[O+S p.137]

Wralda is overal tegenwoordig [of: eigenwaardig],

maar nergens te aanschouwen [of: bezien],

daarom wordt dit wezen geest genoemd

Wr-alda is omnipresent [litt: over-all ownworthy]

but invisible [litt: nowhere to be seen],

and therefore [the being] is called a spirit [or: ghost]

20. [100/02] Other part of Form-ler

EMONG FINDA.S FOLK SEND WAN.WÍSA.

THÉR THRVCH HJARA OVER.FINDINGRIKHÉD AL SA ÀRG SEND EWERDEN

THÀT HJA HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA ÀND THA INEWIDA BITJUGA

THÀT HJA THET BESTA DÉL SEND FON WR.ALDA.

THET HJARA GÁST THET BESTE DÉL IS FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST

ÀND THET WR.ALDA ALLÉNA MÉI THÀNKJA THRVCH HELPE HJAR.IS BRYN

[O+S p.139]

Onder Findas volk zijn wanwijzen,

die door hunne overvindingrijkheid zoo boos [erg] zijn geworden,

dat zij zich zelven wijs maken en de ingewijden doen gelooven [of: betuigen],

dat zij het beste deel zijn van Wralda;

dat hun geest het beste deel is van Wralda’s geest,

en dat Wralda alleen kan denken door hulp van hun brein

Among Finda's people there are false teachers [or: pseudo-wise],

who, by their over-inventiveness, have hecome so wicked [or: bad]

that they make themselves and their adherents believe

that they are the best part of Wr-alda,

that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda' s spirit,

and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains

21. [100/16] Other part of Form-ler

WÉRE HJARA GÁST WR.ALDA.S GÁST

SÁ SKOLDE WR.ALDA ÉL DVM WÉSA

IN STÉDE FON LICHT AND WIS.

HWAND HJARA GÁST SLÁVTH HIM SELVA IMMER OF

VMBE SKÉNE BYLDA TO MÁKJANDE

THÉRY ÀFTERNÉI ANBID

[O+S p.139]

Ware hun geest Wraldas geest,

dan zoude Wralda heel dom wezen,

in plaats van verstandig en wijs.

Want hun geest slooft zich altijd af

om schoone beelden te maken,

die zij naderhand aanbid[t]den

If their spirit was Wr-alda's spirit,

then Wr-alda would be very stupid,

instead of being sensible and wise;

for their spirit labours [like a slave]

to create beautiful statues,

which they [it] afterwards worship[-s]

22. [101/31] Other part of Form-ler

HWAT THUS VSA OMME.FANG TREFT

ALSA SEND WY EN DÉL FON WRALDAS VNENDELIK WÉSA.

ALSA THA OMMEFANG FON AL ET SKÉPENE.

THACH HWAT ANGA VSA DÁNTE

VSA AINSKIPA VSA GÁST ÀND AL VSA BITHÀNKINGA

THISSA NE HÉRA NAVT TO THET WÉSA

[O+S p.141]

Wat dus onzen omvang betreft,

zoo zijn wij een deel van Wraldas oneindig wezen

als de omvang van al het geschapene.

Doch wat onze gedaante aangaat,

onze eigenschappen, onzen geest en al onze bedenkingen,

deze behooren niet tot het wezen

In what regards our existence,

we are a part of Wr-alda's everlasting [or: unending] being,

like the existence of all [that was] created beings;

but as regards our form,

our qualities, our spirit, and all our thoughts,

these do not belong to the being

23. [103/05] Other part of Form-ler

WY FRYA.S BERN SEND FORSKINSLA THRVCH WR.ALDA.S LÉVA.

BY T.ANFANG MIN ÀND BLÁT.

THACH IMMER WÀRTHANDE ÀND NÁKANDE TO FVLKVMENLIKHÉD,

SVNDER Á SA GOD TO WRDA AS WR.ALDA SELVA.

VSA GÁST NIS NAVT WR.ALDAS GÁST.

HI IS THÉRFON ALLÉNA EN AFSKINSLE

[O+S p.143]

wij Fryas kinderen zijn verschijnselen door Wraldas leven;

bij den aanvang gering [of: min] en bloot:

doch altijd wordende en naderende [of: nakende] tot volkomenheid,

zonder ooit zoo goed te worden als Wralda zelf.

Onze geest is niet Wralda’s geest,

hij is daarvan slechts een afschijnsel

We, Frya's children, exist through Wr-alda's life —

in the beginning mean and base [or: bare],

but always advancing towards perfection

without ever attaining the excellence of [or: becoming as good as] Wr-alda himself.

Our spirit is not Wr-alda's spirit,

it is merely a shadow [reflection] of it

24. [111/19] Apollanja's report

THJU BURCH.FÁM FON FOR.ÁNA SÉIDE MY.

THÀT THA BURCH.HÉRA DÉISTIK TO RÁ GUNGON.

VMBRA TO LÉRANDE. HWAT ÀFTE FRYDOM SÍ.

ÀND HO THA MÀNNISKA AN THÉRE MINNE AGON TO LÉVANE

VMBE SÉJEN TO WINNANDE FON WR.ALDA.S.GÁST

[O+S p.153]

De Burgtmaagd van Forana zeide mij,

dat de burgtheeren dagelijks tot hen gingen

om hun te leeren, wat echte vrijheid is,

en hoe de menschen in der minne behooren te leven

om zegen te erlangen [of: winnen] van Wraldas geest

The Burgtmaagd of Forana told me

that the burgtheeren go every day

to teach them what real freedom is,

and how it behoves men to live

in order to obtain the blessing of Wr-alda's spirit

25. [132/21] Frethorik about the Jonjar

HWERSA IMMAN EN BYLD MÁKATH

ÀFTER ÉNNEN VRSTURVEN ÀND THET LIKT

SÁ LÁWATH HJA

THÀT THENE GÁST THES VRSTURVENE THÉR INNE FÁRATH.

THÉRVR HÀVATH HJA ALLE BYLDA VRBURGEN.

FON FRYA. FÀSTA. MÉDÉA. THJANJA.

HELLÉNJA ÀND FÉLO ÔTHERA

[O+S p.181]

Wanneer iemand een beeld maakt

naar een afgestorvene en het gelijkt,

dan gelooven zij,

dat de geest des overledene daarin vaart.

Daarom hebben zij alle beelden verborgen

van Frya, Fâsta, Medea, Thiania,

Hellenia en vele andere

When they [someone] make[-s] a statue

of a dead person [and it's alike]

they believe

that the spirit of the departed enters into it;

therefore they have hidden their [all] statues

of Frya, Fâsta, Medea, Thiania,

Hellenia, and many others

26. [133/10] Frethorik about the Jonjar

ÔLON LÁWATH HJA AN BOSA GÁSTA.

HEXNA. KOLLA. ULDERMANKES. ÀND ELFUN

AS JEF HJA FON THA FINNA WEI KÉMEN

[O+S p.181]

Vervolgens gelooven zij aan booze geesten,

heksen, kollen, aardmannetjes en elfen,

alsof zij van de Finnen afstammen

Moreover, they believe in bad spirits [or: angry ghosts],

witches, sorcerers, dwarfs [or: trolls], and elves,

as if they descended from the Finns

27. [141/07] Dela a.k.a. Hellenja

THA SKILUN THA FALXA PRESTERA WÉI FÁGATH WERTHA FON JRTHA.

WR.ALDA HIS GÁST SKIL ALOMME ÀND ALLERWÉIKES ÉRATH ÀND BIHROPA WERTHA.

THA ÉWA THÉR WR.ALDA BI.T.ANFANG IN VS MOD LÉIDE

SKILUN ALLÉNA HÉRAD WERTHA

[O+S p.191]

Dan zullen de valsche priesters weggevaagd worden van de aarde;

Wraldas geest zal alom en allerwege geëerd en aangeroepen worden;

de wetten die Wralda bij den aanvang in ons gemoed legde,

zullen alleen gehoord worden

Then the false priests shall be swept away from the earth.

Wr-alda's spirit shall be invoked [and honoured] everywhere and always;

the laws that Wr-alda in the beginning instilled into our consciences

shall alone be listened to

28. [142/14] Gosa's prophecy

THJUSTRENESSE SKIL HJU IN OVERNE GÁST THÉRA MÀNNISKA SPRÉDA

LIK TONGAR.IS WOLKA OVIRET SVNNE LJUCHT

[O+S p.193]

Duisternis zal hij over den geest der menschen spreiden,

gelijk onweers [donder]wolken over het zonnelicht

It will spread darkness over the minds of men [spirits of the people]

like storm- [thunder-]clouds over the sunlight

Edited April 7, 2011 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

Another clue I found that Viking is derived from Vitking meaning (primarily) Seaking:

The origins of the Rus' Khaganate are unclear. The first Scandinavian settlers of the region arrived in the lower basin of the Volkhov River in the mid-8th century. The country comprising the present-day Saint-Petersburg, Novgorod, Tver, Yaroslavl, and Smolensk regions became known in Old Norse sources as "Gardarike", the land of forts. Norse warlords, known to the Turkic-speaking steppe peoples as "köl-beki" or "sea-kings", came to dominate some of the region's Finno-Ugric and Slavic peoples, particularly along the Volga trade route linking the Baltic Sea with the Caspian Sea and Serkland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Vikings

If Norse warlords in another language were known as "sea-kings", then why not in their own, or that of their ancestors, as made plausible by OLB?

OK, so they called themselves Witking = Viking, some 4000 years ago, maybe... This Godfrejath the Old is only mentioned in the OLB as the one who added the OLB numerals to the script, after Fasta created the runscript (I think it means the italic form of the runes/Jol-script created by Frya, the script we know of). But when did this Godfreyath live?? Could be anytime, right? His name only comes up with who did what for the OLB script. And it are Arabic numerals we all use now (which the Arabs in their turn borrowed from the people in India), numerals introduced in Europe around 1000 AD or something.

I have posted about the Anglo-saxon/OLd English 'wicing', -c- prounounced like 'ch' in church, I mentioned the Frisian 'vitsing' and that it's pronounced the same, 'witching'. Then the fact that the Frisian 'ch' is 'k' in all the other Nordic languages.

And... that this word first showed up (in England) long before - many ages before - we hear of the famous/notorious Vikings.

It was Ibn Fadlan who reported about these Volga Vikings. Now what I find funny, and I don't know how much Michael Crichton made up in his "The 13th Warrior", but I remember very well a scene in which Fadlan (played by Antonio Banderas) showed his Arab writing to some of these Vikings who appeared eager to learn. Fadlan started writing his Arabic script in the sand, and his 'pupil' was impressed, and then tried to copy it. Fadlan (Banderas) then teached him about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1d8E9GglvA

+++

EDIT:

I have the Dutch translation of Crichton's "Eaters of the Dead" (Dutch title: "De Mistmonsters") on which the movie "The 13th Warrior" is based. I once bought it because it was a fiction - based on real accounts - of surviving Neanderthals in Nordic countries...

.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

We read a lot about "Linda" related words and of course about "Frya" in the OLB.

Just now I found out why they are connected, but using known myths and superstitions.

"De lindeboom werd bij de Kelten en de Germanen gezien als heilige boom. De godin Freya zou er zich in vestigen. De geest van de linde gold als beschermer voor huizen, bronnen en kerken. Ook later werd de lindeboom als 'goede boom' beschouwd. Huwelijken werden gesloten onder de linde; de duimen van de geliefden werden dan in de bast gedrukt. Een lindetak zou tevens helpen als middel tegen tandpijn bij kinderen en het werd, in amuletvorm, gebruikt als bescherming tegen heksen en geesten."

Link to Wiki

In English:

"The linde trees were considered to be sacred trees among Celts and Germans. The goddess Freya would be living inside them. The spirit of the linde tree was the protector of homes, wells and churches. Also later, the linde tree was seen as a "good tree". Marriages were consecrated (English??) under the linde tree; the thumbs of the lovers were then pressed into the bark. A twig/branch of the linde tree would also help as a remedy for toothache in children, and was, in amulet form, used as protection against witches and ghosts."

.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Abramelin

[questionmark]

We read a lot about "Linda" related words and of course about "Frya" in the OLB.

Just now I found out why they are connected, but using known myths and superstitions.

"De lindeboom werd bij de Kelten en de Germanen gezien als heilige boom. De godin Freya zou er zich in vestigen. De geest van de linde gold als beschermer voor huizen, bronnen en kerken. Ook later werd de lindeboom als 'goede boom' beschouwd. Huwelijken werden gesloten onder de linde; de duimen van de geliefden werden dan in de bast gedrukt. Een lindetak zou tevens helpen als middel tegen tandpijn bij kinderen en het werd, in amuletvorm, gebruikt als bescherming tegen heksen en geesten."

Link to Wiki

In English:

"The linde trees were considered to be sacred trees among Celts and Germans. The goddess Freya would be living inside them. The spirit of the linde tree was the protector of homes, wells and churches. Also later, the linde tree was seen as a "good tree". Marriages were consecrated (English??) under the linde tree; the thumbs of the lovers were then pressed into the bark. A twig/branch of the linde tree would also help as a remedy for toothache in children, and was, in amulet form, used as protection against witches and ghosts."

.

The thing is called Limewood tree in English...

[Abramelin]

The thing is called Limewood tree in English...

Heh, I know that, questionmark, but I did use the word 'linde tree' on purpose because there seems to be some confusion about the 'lime' part of the word.

[The Puzzler]

At least a couple of centuries BC.

All the recorded or mythological drowned villages and cities in that area date from many centuries later.

Btw, here's a chronology of the events in the OLB:

APPENDIX A-2: CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

Good chronology, I have seen a few poor ones but that really gives a good run down of time and events even out of the OLB.

Maybe 200BC then if we ascertain that Konered wrote the part: My father has written how the Lindaoorden and Liudgaarden were destroyed. Lindahem is still lost, the Lindaoorden partially, and the north Lindgaarden are still concealed by the salt sea

It's at this same time that Jutland got reinhabited by these Jutter that I said came in from the East Baltic Sea.

The same flood is mentioned - Now I must return to my story.

After the great flood of which my father wrote an account, there came many Jutlanders and Letlanders out of the Baltic, or bad sea. They were driven down the Kattegat in their boats by the ice as far as the coast of Denmark, and there they remained. There was not a creature to be seen; so they took possession of the land, and named it after themselves, Jutland.

This mention woulod have to be the Cimbrian Flood - The Cymbrian flood (or Cimbrian flood) was a large-scale incursion of the sea in the region of the Jutland peninsula in the period 120 to 114 BC, resulting in a permanent alteration of the coastline with much land lost. This disaster killed many, and sent others living in the area south, in search of new lands. It was one of a number of such conflagrations of nature in northwest Europe during the Roman period, the climate between 300 BC and about 100 AD producing frequent storms and the blowing of sand near the coast.

This part imo should be aligned to be the same flood - the flood spoken of by Konered imo should align with this Cimbrian Flood time, which it does appear to do.

This part is written by Wiljow - the maiden who came home with Frethorik from Saxmarken.

When our land was submerged I was in Schoonland. It was very bad there. There were great lakes which rose from the earth like bubbles, then burst asunder, and from the rents flowed a stuff like red-hot iron. The tops of high mountains fell and destroyed whole forests and villages. I myself saw one mountain torn from another and fall straight down.

Edited April 8, 2011 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

I thought they meant Ptolemy the astronomer at first but this is the Ptolemy that engaged Demetrius, real events.

Got it figured, the Ptolemy is Ptolemy I the Soter of Macedonia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy_I_Soter

and Demetrius - http://biography.jrank.org/pages/5024/Demetrius-Besieger-(Demetrius-Poliorcetes).html

Demetrius I of Macedonia (336–283 BC), son of Antigonus the One-eyed, was reared at his father's court in Phrygia and fled with him to Europe (322). He was married early (321/0) to Phila, daughter of Antipater, widow of Craterus and a potent political asset, and rapidly acquired military distinction, commanding Antigonus' cavalry at Paraetacene and Gabiene (317/6). His independent commands began inauspiciously at Gaza (312), where he lost an army to Ptolemy I, and subsequently (311) failed to displace Seleucus I from Babylonia. However, in 307 he led the Antigonid offensive in Greece, liberating Athens from the regime of Demetrius of Phaleron, and in 306 his victory over a Ptolemaic fleet off Cyprus inspired his father to claim kingship for them both.

Read more: Demetrius the Besieger (Demetrius Poliorcetes) Biography - (Demetrius Poliorcetes) - Antigonus, Greece, Seleucus, Ptolemy, Father, and Army http://biography.jrank.org/pages/5024/Demetrius-Besieger-(Demetrius-Poliorcetes).html#ixzz1It1Q8QpJ

He went once to the town of Salamis, and after he had been some time fighting there, he had an engagement with the fleet of Ptolemy. Ptolemy was the name of the prince who reigned over Egypt. Demetrius won the battle, not by his own soldiers, but because we helped him. We had done this out of friendship for Nearchus, because we knew that he was of b****** birth by his white skin, blue eyes, and fair hair.

Edited April 8, 2011 by The Puzzler