Göbekli Tepe-10 000 BC

[The Puzzler]

Evidence is of sky burial at Gobekli Tepe.

I mentioned it as a comparison to Paris even, being exposed on a mountain as a baby. Both in Anatolia/Turkey. Exposure and sky burial are very ancient.

Ground burials, sky burials or fire burials seem to be a constant in cultures.

[Melamet]

Ermmm, why does anyone on earth think the 'snake carvings' are snakes? Do they think these people were so primitive that they were incapable of carving a realistic looking snake? Isn't it obvious that the 'snakes' are in fact psilocybin mushrooms to anyone who ever was closely aquainted with them? Simply by Occam's razor...apart from the revisionist projections of 'scientific' archeologists, and anti 'drug' propaganda purposes of the Turkish Government, what do they actually look like?

[Melamet]

I guess everyone knows that Schmidt has located @ 20 circles by Ground Penetrating Radar...

[questionmark]

Evidence is of sky burial at Gobekli Tepe.

I mentioned it as a comparison to Paris even, being exposed on a mountain as a baby. Both in Anatolia/Turkey. Exposure and sky burial are very ancient.

Ground burials, sky burials or fire burials seem to be a constant in cultures.

Not quite, in the Christian, Jewish and Islamic cultures fire and sky are an absolute no no. If it is happening again where any of these religions are dominant it is due to the culture shifting from religious to laicistic.

[The_Spartan]

its mainly the Zoroastrians/parsees and the Tibetan Buddhists who practice sky burials.

[questionmark]

I find this very interesting. Artifacts from the end of the stone age display considerably more sophistication than those from the start of the bronze age, and likewise those at the end of the bronze age have more sophistication than those from the start of the iron age. What this usually indicates is an advanced but somewhat stagnant culture being displaced by a less culturally capable but more warlike group with superior weapons, resetting the clock as it were. This mechanism might also apply to natural disasters which reduce whole civilisations to a more primitive state.

The advancement of a culture is not shown by the dedication of its craftsmen to create something but by the materials and methods used. In fact, none of our buildings will last as long as the Roman Pantheon or any of the Gothic cathedrals. That does not mean that the Romans or the people in the middle ages were more advanced.

[lightly]

... i really wonder about the whole concept of advancement sometimes.. when i look at modern society.

[SHaYap]

... i really wonder about the whole concept of advancement sometimes.. when i look at modern society.

I know what you mean ... I prefer to use "definition" of "advanced society" rather than "concept of"

The Turpan Valley Site (China) and the YangHai Tombs Relics shows plenty early Central Euro influences however where one would define as "advanced" was brought in or evidently local gets blurred after a thousand years of inter mingling.

Time and information gets around much much slower in those old days.

The "Deer Stones" "Deer Carvings Totems" looks very interesting.

If interested Google "YangHai Tombs" with "JOurneys in Time" and CCTV.Com I think the 10 part Docu is available for online viewing

[questionmark]

I'd differentiate between technological advancement and cultural advancement though. Who knows how many Shakespeares were lost when those civilisations collapsed?

Who knows how many we lost because they were wasting their time on mental maxtubation?

[Damrod]

New National geographic article out on this...great read. Hope you like it...it's the June release btw...Hot off the presses!

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text/1

[lightly]

I liked it, great picture too.. The hands over a whatchamacallit ..once again!! and I especially like this statement :

Bewilderingly, the people at Göbekli Tepe got steadily worse at temple building. The earliest rings are the biggest and most sophisticated, technically and artistically.

I guess that might happen as the belief system responsible waned.. or changed, but still, that's interesting.

Edited June 2, 2011 by lightly

[questionmark]

I liked it, great picture too.. The hands over a whatchamacallit ..once again!! and I especially like this statement :

Bewilderingly, the people at Göbekli Tepe got steadily worse at temple building. The earliest rings are the biggest and most sophisticated, technically and artistically.

I guess that might happen as the belief system responsible waned.. or changed, but still, that's interesting.

The problem the people of Gobeliki faced is that the paradigm they were living changed drastically. When they started they were hunter gatherers, when they ended they were farmers. The myths of the hunter gatherers waned and were substituted by myths created by new needs. The people who were left in Gobeliki were those incapable of changing their views of the world, which means that the less intelligent and mentally mobile were left to tend to the temples and their maintenance. The result is known.

[lightly]

The problem the people of Gobeliki faced is that the paradigm they were living changed drastically. When they started they were hunter gatherers, when they ended they were farmers. The myths of the hunter gatherers waned and were substituted by myths created by new needs. The people who were left in Gobeliki were those incapable of changing their views of the world, which means that the less intelligent and mentally mobile were left to tend to the temples and their maintenance. The result is known.

This article from 2008 basically agrees with you ...

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html

Only a very small percentage has been excavated.. still no sign of dwellings or a cooking hearth... which pretty much rules out the site being occupied, rather just visited ceremoniously.

Evidence of the world's oldest variety of domesticated wheat found nearby only postdates the sight by about 500 years.

Some human bones have been found among the rubble.. possibly buried there by hangers on before the site was completely forgotten.. or just later unconnected burials ?

According to the article, the temples rest on limestone floors? (pretty fancy) .. is it known yet what is under those floors?

[questionmark]

This article from 2008 basically agrees with you ...

http://www.smithsoni...bekli-tepe.html

Only a very small percentage has been excavated.. still no sign of dwellings or a cooking hearth... which pretty much rules out the site being occupied, rather just visited ceremoniously.

Evidence of the world's oldest variety of domesticated wheat found nearby only postdates the sight by about 500 years.

Some human bones have been found among the rubble.. possibly buried there by hangers on before the site was completely forgotten.. or just later unconnected burials ?

According to the article, the temples rest on limestone floors? (pretty fancy) .. is it known yet what is under those floors?

At this point there is much speculation about that. Except excavation not much has been done at this point. But the indication seems to be that the place was not inhabited, which would stay in the tradition of certain cult caves (Mostly southern Europe)of the time or preceding Gobeliki. That is why we assume that it comes from the same hunter gatherer cultures that preceded agriculture. Now, everybody could be dead wrong.

Not until the gross excavation is done can the theoretical work begin, and at that point we will know how things fit together.

Edited June 3, 2011 by questionmark

[know_doubt]

Interesting how little we know about our own past

[H.H. Holmes]

Read the newest National Geographic, it has an article and some awesome pictures of Gobekli Tepe.

[questionmark]

Read the newest National Geographic, it has an article and some awesome pictures of Gobekli Tepe.

I have, but it still does not have all the answers required to form an authoritative opinion.

[H.H. Holmes]

I know, I was just trying to inform others if they want to further educate themselves on the topic. Not saying it has all the answers or anything.

[Abramelin]

Interesting how little we know about our own past

That gives some lunatics/fantasts a freeway to post their insane theories.

And if some scientist shows up, and tells them they were wrong and uninformed, s/he get's accused of collabrorating with some government conspiracy.

[H.H. Holmes]

That gives some lunatics/fantasts a freeway to post their insane theories.

And if some scientist shows up, and tells them they were wrong and uninformed, s/he get's accused of collabrorating with some government conspiracy.

Well, it is a true statement. There are still things to be discovered, we don't have the complete picture of the development of human society. There are new finds made every month that give us new insights into the past.

[Ove]

The Göbekli Tepe pillars are statues of dead priests (saints) standing in circles around two high priests.

National Geographic June 2011 says It's a priest

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/modeling-gobekli-video

[SlimJim22]

Does it not look electrical to anyone? To me that looks like a basic circuit or something related to the channelling of energy. I may be wrong but I think it likely these sort of structures served some kind of function though a practice of geomancy and subtle energies within the earth. I appreciate this is unlikely but to me it looks like a temp,e designed to channel current.

[Damrod]

Does it not look electrical to anyone? To me that looks like a basic circuit or something related to the channelling of energy. I may be wrong but I think it likely these sort of structures served some kind of function though a practice of geomancy and subtle energies within the earth. I appreciate this is unlikely but to me it looks like a temp,e designed to channel current.

Not sure about the conductive properties of Limestone. I'm not a proponent of the idea of mysticism or metaphysics, but that's fine for those that are.

I think it's one of the most interesting ancient sites I have ever read about. I have read everything I could get my hands on except the papers written in German...I don't know how to speak German and the last time I tried to use an online translator, I got crappy results. Maybe I should try again. Anyone else tried?

[questionmark]

Not sure about the conductive properties of Limestone. I'm not a proponent of the idea of mysticism or metaphysics, but that's fine for those that are.

I think it's one of the most interesting ancient sites I have ever read about. I have read everything I could get my hands on except the papers written in German...I don't know how to speak German and the last time I tried to use an online translator, I got crappy results. Maybe I should try again. Anyone else tried?

Don't have to try, know German. Now, if you leave me a note about the paper you are referring to I'll leave you a synopsis.

[Damrod]

Don't have to try, know German. Now, if you leave me a note about the paper you are referring to I'll leave you a synopsis.

Thank you. I'll look them up again. I believe they were older papers, 2004, 2006, etc. I'm guessing that the newer released material probably includes them but I'd like to know that for sure and not assume.