Help clarify this Hy-Brasil/Atlantis thing?

[Indiogene]

Seriously, I heavily doubt the original mythological island of Brazil off the coast of Europe is related to the actual Brazil in modern times in South America. But here's what I configured to explain the similar enonyms of two lands. When the sea level was much lower, not only Britain and Ireland were physically connected with France of continental Europe, more islands existed near what is now the Canary Islands, Azores, Cape Verde and the Caribbean Sea during the last ice age. That meant early seafaring peoples could easily "island-hop" about 3,000 miles from Brazil "N" (North or Europe) to Brazil "S" (South America)...thus established multiple colonies shared the namesake.

I came to notice by the shape of the two continets: Africa and South America (Brazil) was once physically connected...once the supercontient "Gondwana". But a massive geoseismic force started to break them apart over 150 million years ago, when the continental drift moved the two continents apart and created the Atlantic ocean by the undersea South Atlantic trench, and the process of widening the ocean continues to be active. Put the two continents together...they fit perfectly!

There are a wideload of legends about Atlantis are connected to...Africans, according to Afrocentrists whom contended the world's earliest civilizations in Africa (esp. ancient Egypt) and the Middle East/South Asia. There was a race of people called the "Maourides" originated in India, plus their connections with the Lost Continent of "Mu" in the South Pacific, the "Maourides" were the original "Asiatic black men" of Turko-Iranian origin constantly settled in Africa about 2,500-5,000 years ago...are pre-Africoid races (i.e. Capoid, Bantu/Congolese or Ethiopian). Plus some Afrocentrists have a theological movement (available on Youtube) foretell stories of early man lived in Gondwana which is now westernmost Africa and Brazil. That indicates in theory: humans may been around for 100 million years!

Edited August 20, 2011 by DeMikeDe

[dbszba82]

I came to notice by the shape of the two continets: Africa and South America (Brazil) was once physically connected...once the supercontient "Gondwana". But a massive geoseismic force started to break them apart over 150 million years ago, when the continental drift moved the two continents apart and created the Atlantic ocean by the undersea South Atlantic trench, and the process of widening the ocean continues to be active. Put the two continents together...they fit perfectly!

Are you saying you are the first to notice this? Did you not to go to middle school? Where did you get 'Gondwana' from? Did you make that up? The name of the super-continent is Pangaea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea . Regardless, it was a super-continent long before modern man was around.

Edited August 20, 2011 by dbszba82

[Indiogene]

Are you saying you are the first to notice this? Did you not to go to middle school? Where did you get 'Gondwana' from? Did you make that up? The name of the super-continent is Pangaea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea . Regardless, it was a super-continent long before modern man was around.

Yes I have been to Middle school...and No I hadn't made up anything, I referred to Youtube video testimonies that's hard to believe. I discussed the supercontinents once held all the 5 or 6 modern continents together about 300 million years ago. The Pangaea landmass began to split apart into a northern (Laurasia) and southern continent in which is Gondwana. One or 2 of them became Australia-the smallest, and India, a subcontinent slowly moved across the Indian ocean to slam toward the Eurasian continent (many geographers and geologists consider Europe and Asia joint together at the Urals, not actually separate continents) about 50 million years ago and the tremendous collision process made the Himalayas, the world's tallest mountain range.

[Abramelin]

So, Mike, you do understand that Gondwana has nothing whatsoever to do with Plato's "Atlantis", right?

Plato talked about an island/continent that submerged in a catastrophical way around 10,000 years ago.

.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Abramelin

[katesisco]

Velikovsky said so; S W Carey said the Earth expanded. Let's consider how expansion happens. My Knol goes into further considerations but the magnetic field around a neutron star (15 miles in diameter and down!!) swells with energy and if there is a solar system in the cloud (that would be Sol's) it is compressed from all points. Effectively the heliosphere would begin to draw back to Sol itself. The planets would be left in their gravity orbits, having first experienced compression, then the energy line of the center of the Double Layer plasma sheath, then the back side which would mean expansion, the molecular bonds loosening. And it would allow the Earth, all expanded parts of it, to massive blasts of cosmic rays which finally explains why we have so much 'cosmic ray' evidence but are currently surrounded by Sol's heliosphere that would prevent just that.

Rock all rise off Ireland was an island of the elite. DNA shows the profile of this population passing through the yet-to-be Caspian and Black seas which did not form until 7,500 bc which indicated severe flooding to me. This postured island is the Rock all rise of which there is evidence moved south where nothing like it existed. The displaced population became salt miners which without salt no food could be preserved and no travel, by foot or by boat could be done.

Here we arrive at recorded history--10,000 y ago. There must have been life, intelligent multi-cellular life way before. 1/2 Billion y ago is when planet Ice became planet Earth. Multi cellular life formed a partnership with archaebacteria and eubacteria still in evidence today. Was it due to the neutron star's magnetic field invasion? Science says a nova exploded on Sol's doorstep 10 my ago, and we didn't make the fossil record until 5 my ago. Were we because of the continued stripping of E and exposure to cosmic rays? No, but it sure made us violent and exceptionally prolific. Mother Nature's way to preserve the species. If you keep getting wiped out, make more faster.

Sad, isn't it? Violent but not our fault, genetically encoded as a response to repeated catastrophe.

The field that is incurring (NOW) may contain comets, planetoids, etc., all identifiable but not the main problem, the magnetic cloud is. We have 10,000 y of recorded history because of one single reason; 5,000 y ago we didn't get expanded; the magnetic cloud stopped before we got run over that far. That is why we have history. That is the only reason.

[Abramelin]

You're nuts.

[godnodog]

Hi every1,

For those who think the country Brasil was named after some island near Irland, you are mistaken,, because the first name was Terra de Santa Cruz and later Brasil, and Brasil came from the name pau-brasil (a type of plant).

For those considering the similarities of a celtic name with a portuguese, well that is simple too, we portuguese are of celtic ancestry (and other barbarian tribes) too, just like the spanish french and others.

[aquariusage]

My link

[cormac mac airt]

DNA shows the profile of this population passing through the yet-to-be Caspian and Black seas which did not form until 7,500 bc which indicated severe flooding to me.

Two items come to mind.

1) What DNA studies are you suggesting substantiate the above claim? Particularly as neither of the two oldest DNA haplogroups in that region, Y Chromosome Hg R1b1a2a1a1b4/R-LK21 and mtDNA Hg U5, originate anywhere near the Black Sea or Caspian Sea.

2) The latter is patently untrue as both the Caspian and Black Seas have existed for millions of years. The "Black Sea Flood", while having occurred c.7400 BC DID NOT create the Black Sea, but instead added much more territory to the northern and northwestern parts thereof.

cormac

[Taita]

Are you saying you are the first to notice this? Did you not to go to middle school? Where did you get 'Gondwana' from? Did you make that up? The name of the super-continent is Pangaea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea . Regardless, it was a super-continent long before modern man was around.

Don't be quick to judge. Gwondwanaland was as he said, a supercontinent very seperate from Pangaea. I don't know of the rest but, that point is actually very correct.

Mark

Edited October 11, 2011 by Taita

[Soul Kitchen]

Hy-Brasil has no relation to Brazil. It's a coincidence.

-OP

[crystal sage]

http://historicmysteries.com/hy-brasil-the-other-atlantis

When discussing underwater lore and legends, Atlantis is an obvious subject of interest. However, the lost island of Hy-Brasil is just as intriguing and has more first-person accounts.

Hy-Brasil is also spelled Hy-Breasal, Hy-Brazil, Hy-Breasil, Brazir and related variations. It may be the reason that the South American country, Brazil, was so named. The central image on the Brazilian flag, a circle with a channel across the center, is the symbol for Hy-Brasil on early maps.

The name of Hy-Brasil may come from the Middle Ages term brazil, which seems to indicate a source of rare red dye. The dye may have acquired its name from the legendary island, or vice versa.

Or, the name Hy-Brasil, also called the Fortunate Island, may originate with the old Irish word, breas, meaning noble or fortunate.Or, the name Hy-Brasil, also called the Fortunate Island, may originate with the old Irish word, breas, meaning noble or fortunate.

In folklore, this island country takes its name from Breasal, the High King of the World, in Celtic history.

(He may or may not be related to Bresal Echarlam mac Echach Baethlaim, from the stories of Lugh at Tara. He was not St. Breasal, although pre-Christian folklore may be the foundation for that saint’s legends.)

Hy-Brasil was noted on maps as early as 1325, when Genoese cartographer Dalorto placed the island west of Ireland. On successive sailing charts, it appears southwest of Galway Bay.

On some 15th century maps, islands of the Azores appear as Isola de Brazil, or Insulla de Brazil.

After 1865, Hy-Brasil appears on few maps since its location could not be verified.

Regardless of the name or location, the island’s history is consistent: It is the home of a wealthy and highly advanced civilization. Those who visited the island returned with tales of gold-roofed towers and domes, healthy cattle, and opulent citizens.

The lore of Hy-Brasil is equally fascinating. For example, it is shrouded in fog or perhaps beneath the ocean, and appears only briefly, once every seven years.

The island has been visited by many people for centuries. Both Saint Barrind and Saint Brendan found the island on their respective voyages, and returned home with nearly identical descriptions of Hy-Brasil, which they dubbed the “Promised Land.”

http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/History/Maritime/Sources/1476brasil.htm

In 1971, Harvey L. Sharrer, wrote a short research note that bears on the debate.[9] Sharrer's paper concerned an entry in a Spanish Basque chronicle written by Lope García de Salazar (1399-1476). The entry in question must have been written before Salazar's death in 1476 and may have been written considerably earlier, given that it is found in the eleventh of this twenty-five 'book' chronicle. The entry concerns the island where the legendary King Arthur was supposed to have been buried following his final battle. While most accounts give this as Avalon, Salazar suggests Arthur's resting place was the Island of Brasil. Salazar finishes his account by noting that he has heard from certain Englishmen that a ship from Bristol had at one time found this isle but the mariners had subsequently been unable to relocate it. Sharrer took this as evidence that Bristol mariners had in fact discovered some unknown land to the west of Ireland. Since no islands lie between Ireland and North America, the account, if the story Salazar retold did relate to a genuine voyage, would provide further evidence that Bristol men had discovered North America before John Cabot's 1497 expedition

The Island of Brasil is significant to the history of Bristol's early discovery voyages because the first known voyages from Bristol, in 1480 and 1481, involved expeditions to search for this mythical isle.[2] Moreover, when the Spanish ambassador, Pedro de Ayala, wrote to his sovereigns in 1498, he claimed that 'For the last seven years the people of Bristol have equipped two, three [and] four caravels to go in search of the island of Brazil and the Seven Cities'.[3] This suggests that Bristol had continued its search for Brasil after 1481. These expeditions are regarded as significant, in part, because it is generally supposed that John Cabot's 1496-98 voyages of discovery were launched from Bristol because of the port's established interest in Atlantic exploration, as evidenced by the Brasil expeditions

Alwyn Ruddock was at last making moves to publish her long-awaited book on the voyages of John Cabot. It appears that he therefore felt it sufficient to pass Sharrer's article on to Ruddock, so she could incorporate the information into her book. It is at least the case that, on 10 November, he wrote of Ruddock that 'I have a piece of information for her that I will send as soon as I have given the SNR Lecture', while, a couple of months later, Dr Ruddock wrote to Quinn to say that:

'I was very surprised and pleased to read the article from ROMANIA you sent me before Christmas. This Spanish version of the Isle of Brasil is quite new to me and will be valuable too. The discovery was already reported and put on record in Italy before 1470 so the evidence from both Spain and Italy support each other convincingly, don't you agree?'[12]

[Abramelin]

http://historicmysteries.com/hy-brasil-the-other-atlantis

http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/History/Maritime/Sources/1476brasil.htm

Nice.

It just proves people are too lazy to read a thread.

[crystal sage]

It appears that a new

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=NVZrnDMHAqYC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=ireland's+atlantis+q&source=bl&ots=E4gkAiw13e&sig=L0sxWUwvRQ2HEnXkUH_TYiqafx4&hl=en&ei=J-OaTv21CZGXiAfSrd2lCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Edited October 16, 2011 by crystal sage

[Abramelin]

It appears that a new

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=NVZrnDMHAqYC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=ireland's+atlantis+q&source=bl&ots=E4gkAiw13e&sig=L0sxWUwvRQ2HEnXkUH_TYiqafx4&hl=en&ei=J-OaTv21CZGXiAfSrd2lCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I clicked you links CS, and after scrolling down a bit, I read about that Basque poem about "Atlaintika".

I remembered I once posted about it, not having a clue how authentic it was.

Well, a "Legionromanes" cured me of any 'dreams' I might have had about its authenticity:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=128224&st=1845

Ves ese mar que abarca una línea infinita?

De Hespérides un día fue el huerto seductor;

reliquias de aquel tiempo El Teide aún las vomita,

cual monstruo que velase un campo de dolor.

Aquí extendió su margen el continente hesperio;

ignoramos qué lindes lo pudieron ceñir;

ni el mismo sol que abarca de un golpe el hemisferio

pudo, por ser pequeño, su magnitud medir.

Aquí hubo titanes, allá bellos jardines,

canciones virginales y trinos a granel;

hoy sus recios palacios los habitan delfines

y las algas tapizan el prado y el vergel.

Despeinó El Teide airado sus cabellos de lava,

llenando el firmamento de llamas por doquier;

las islas retemplaron con la embestida brava

y la humadera hizo a los astros esconder...

Ni los siglos sabrían dónde yace su tumba

si no existiera El Teide que aún le cuenta al mar

aquella horrible noche cuyo recuerdo zumba

y que brama y se siente cual si fuera a tornar.

Aquí hubo titanes, allá bellos jardines,

canciones virginales y trinos a granel;

hoy sus recios palacios los habitan delfines

y las algas tapizan el prado y el vergel.

Quote

You see that sea that includes an infinite line? Of Hespérides a day was the seductive orchard; relics of that one time the Teide vomits still them, what monster that guarded a pain field. Here the continent extended its margin hesperio; we ignore what could fit you are contiguous it; nor the same sun that includes of a blow the hemisphere could, for being small, its magnitude to measure. Here there was titanes, there beautiful gardens, virginal songs and trills in bulk; today their strong palaces inhabit dolphins and the seaweed upholsters the meadow and the orchard. It messed up hair the angry Teide everywhere his lava hair, filling the firmament of flames; the islands retemplaron with the brave attack and humareda made to the stars hide-and-seek… Nor the centuries would know where its tomb lies if the Teide did not exist that still tells to the sea that one horrible night him whose memory hums and that rutting and one feels what if goes to return. Here there was titanes, there beautiful gardens, virginal songs and trills in bulk; today their strong palaces inhabit dolphins and the seaweed upholsters the meadow and the orchard.

it was written by a Catalan priest Jacinto Verdaguer around 1890 and based on Jowetts translations, it was not based on Basque mythology

claiming it is is like if I wrote a poem about Atlantis and someone said it formed part of my peoples mythology

30 years earlier Benjamin Jowett had translated Platos texts from Greek to english for the first time

no one is saying that its part f his cultural heritage either

==

We need more "legionromanesses" here, even though people did not like the saracsm oozing from every sentence of his posts, lol.

.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

- text removed -

Don't know about any bug in the forum but I'm pretty sure posting extremely large blocks of text, which appear to be copied and pasted from somewhere, are frowned upon by the Mods. Also if there's a link where all that is from, it would help to post it. Lastly, what was the point of posting such a large block of text? Was there something specific you wished to discuss?

cormac

[aquariusage]

Phoenicians in hy-brasil

[Swede]

Phoenicians in hy-brasil

As there is no substantial confirmation for the existence of "Hy-Brasil", the speculative connection is rather moot, is it not?

.

[aquariusage]

go to google earth swede plz ;/ 52 09'42.532″ N 13 13'12.69″ W ftw the putative hy-Brazil

[Swede]

go to google earth swede plz ;/ 52 09'42.532″ N 13 13'12.69″ W ftw the putative hy-Brazil

It would appear that you have missed the critical element in the previous submission. To reiterate: "substantial confirmation for the existence of "Hy-Brasil",

.

[cormac mac airt]

go to google earth swede plz ;/ 52 09'42.532″ N 13 13'12.69″ W ftw the putative hy-Brazil

So, Porcupine Bank, which is 2000+ feet below sea level. Even if one were to utilize the 400 feet in reduced ocean level at the time of the Last Glacial Maximum, c.18,000 BC, then it's still 1600 feet below sea level and there's no evidence that it was ever above it. Even moreso, none to suggest such as recently as the 17th - 19th centuries AD. Which, by the way, is the timeframe when many in England and Ireland (to name a few countries) were immigrating to North America without ever mentioning this 'island' at any point during their travels, neither passengers nor crew.

cormac

[Abramelin]

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=205949&st=0&p=3900766&hl=zeno&fromsearch=1entry3900766

[Big Bad Voodoo]

What is the oldest map where we can found Hy-Brasil?

Do we know on many maps have it?

[crystal sage]

Can anyone find anything on these maps???

Appearance on maps

Nautical charts identified an island called "Bracile" west of Ireland in the Atlantic Ocean as far back as 1325, in a portolan chart by Angelino Dulcert. Later it appeared as Insula de Brasil in the Venetian map of Andrea Bianco (1436), attached to one of the larger islands of a group of islands in the Atlantic. This was identified for a time with the modern island of Terceira in the Azores

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelino_Dulcert#Dulcert_1339_Map

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Angelino_Dulcert_cropped.jpg

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/vinland/insp-03.html

http://la.horde.sauvage.free.fr/media/img/cartes/Hibernia_HyBrasil2_400.jpg

http://www.lib.umn.edu/apps/bell/map/PTO/TOUR/1482ulg.html

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?rlz=1T4GGHP_enAU439AU439&q=Hy-Brasil%20was%20noted%20on%20maps%20as%20early%20as%201325%2C%20when%20Genoese%20cartographer%20Dalorto%20placed%20the%20island&um=1&hl=en&biw=662&bih=384&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il

Edited October 19, 2011 by crystal sage

[AJKInthaD]

Hello all. I'm new to UM. 1st post! *cringes nervously* Great topic. Thanks to OP. I am of Irish blood and a lover of anything conspiracy theory.

I get that the original intent was to find more physical evidence of the existence of Hy-Brasil. At the moment what is catching my interest more is "what" the island was , what happened there , and what myth and stories are out there about the island.

Thanks in advance for anything u can supply.