Lost cities found beneath sands of Sahara

[crystal sage]

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/10/turks-to-destroy-archaeological-site-of.html

But the game seems to be over: Culture Minister Ertugrul Gunay quashed hope of saving Allianoi last week when he dismissed the idea of questioning the local archaeological commission's decision in late August to bury the site for preservation

Pictures: Ancient Roman Spa City Reburied

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/12/photogalleries/101229-roman-spa-city-filled-sand-allianoi-turkey-pictures/

Which is interestingly what the ancients did for Gobleki Tepi.. bury it for posterity !!!

I do think that a lot of the revoking of licencing is political... It wants it's treasure back...

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=germany-hits-back-in-row-with-turkey-over-sphinx-2011-02-27

Günay has also threatened several other German archaeological digs around the country, saying the permits could go to Turkish scientists.

Germany is also embroiled in a row with Egypt, which has demanded the return of the 3,400-year-old bust of fabled beauty Nefertiti, which currently has pride of place in the Neues Museum in Berlin.

but then again.. they seem to be very careless with what they do have... there is so much there that when my brother went to Turkey for a few weeks earlier this year he said that there were shards of pottery every where... even in the car parks!!...IIt was everwhere , used as gravel.. but they did have some security guards in the car parks to make sure tourists didn't help themselves to the ancient gravel...

Turkey wants its treasures back, and its assertive stick-and-carrot recovery program, which began to bear fruit last fall, is drawing attention from other Mediterranean nations alarmed at the loss of artifacts.

The undertaking is controversial. It is not calculated to comfort foreign collectors or museums. And it has become a national priority for Turkey.

Turkey is the principal source of classical artifacts that find their way to First World markets today, about $100 million to $200 million worth per year by official estimate. A crossroads nation spanning Europe and Asia, host to 36 civilizations across the centuries, Turkey claims more ancient Greek cities than Greece, more Roman cities than Italy.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-27/news/mn-50929_1_ancient-wonders

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=hh-pm-blames-archeological-findings-for-8220marmaray8221-delay-2011-02-27

Edited November 13, 2011 by crystal sage

[encouraged]

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/10/turks-to-destroy-archaeological-site-of.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/12/photogalleries/101229-roman-spa-city-filled-sand-allianoi-turkey-pictures/

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=germany-hits-back-in-row-with-turkey-over-sphinx-2011-02-27

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-27/news/mn-50929_1_ancient-wonders

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=hh-pm-blames-archeological-findings-for-8220marmaray8221-delay-2011-02-27

The last sentence, in the last citing of your comment, sums it all up, in my opinion, “ 'It is impossible to understand how they were raised that they think they can be so provocative during these kinds of meetings,' Erdoğan said afterward." Only the sentence needs to be an expression of amazement of Turkey's PM's behavior on the World stage regarding artifacts, rather than two girls in the audience protesting.

I remember going to the Spiro Indian Mounds in Oklahoma, but near Fort Smith, Arkansas. The artifacts that were found there were not there to be seen. We had to later go to the Kindle Museum "in" Tulsa, Oklahoma to see them. That kinda bothered me.

Likewise, when I was at the Mexico Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City, The same was true of many artifacts there. The originals could be found in the Smithsonian in New York.

Not being able to see the artifacts in their original environments, or nearly so, made it impossible to study the significance of their placement.

I am a strong supporter of repatriation and a strong supporter of doing it correctly, as in a win-win-win decision. A win for both governments and a win for the future generations of the world. I actually cancelled my Smithsonian subscription because they were not doing enough toward repatriation of artifacts taken from sacred cites of indigenous people. Returning such to be handled traditionally is a responsible thing to do for all the parties involved.

Sometimes it takes a little creativity. Germany could demand a selling price, and contract that the money be paid into a trust. The trust being set up to build and manage a protective environment of the item in the artifact's home country. The payments being a "loan to own" kind of agreement. Turkey would pay installments that retain ownership to Germany until the artifact is totally paid off. Then Turkey gets the "title", the environment, and the artifact at a time when they have learned how to appreciate it, if they are not doing so already.

In that way Germany is fostering good relations, the artifact is returned, and protected for as long as Germany negotiates, and Germany is passing along ideas that can be used by Turkey should they desire to do so, and for that matter visa-verso.

The Neka Art Museum in Bali, Indonesia is a collection of European and local art that came about from a trust set up by a wealthy--German I think--artist. The European art is the work of ex-pats that relocated there for the beauty of ... whatever. The museum was set up similarly, and is doing real well in a society and government that may, or may not, appreciate it. After all the artist was also a pedophile who enjoyed many of the children in Bali, Indonesia, until finding the one he decided to marry.

View: Neka Art Museum, Ubud, Bali, Gianyar Island, Indonesia

But I don't see that happening if Turkey is handing out ultimatums. Nobody like ultimatums! I had a grandmother who would always put things into perspective by saying, "Now, children, play nicely!" (And "Well, I guess it is time to get the children off the streets." LOL!)

Edited November 13, 2011 by encouraged

[crystal sage]

]I can understand artifacts being taken to safer Countries that are not under the threat of War or uprisings.. where relgious mania will not destroy priceless artifacts... or are not able to keep them safely.. Where there is enough security to ensure there is no looting.. theft of artifacts or black market trading...

There are many laws that protect old buildings, sites and objects of cultural significance... so it constantly bothers me that greedy corporations , businesses are happy to pay their way to actively destroy some amazing archaeological sites...

Really they need a 'Time Team' as a legal requirement before any construction or mining project is carried out...

And some sort of Archeological Marshalls supervising all these sites to ensure that there is no shifty dealings going on...

Governments should allocate a small percentage of funds.. or help subsidize fund raisers for preserving it's cultural heritage... Or assist other countries that are having trouble funding or supervising these...

It is soul destroying seeing what is happening to the Middle East... the cradle of mankind.. think of all the missing links to our heritage it holds that is being destroyed through these stupid wars... these power plays... greed... not just the hundreds of thousands of innocents... destroying the land for thousands of years with all the depleted uranium weaponry... ( probably their way to recycle nuclear wastes) Why can't the World Play Nice... It is amazing how in some countries people are so intolerant..hate and kill each other . and yet in countries like Australia.. their relatives' children are playing together... best friends.. getting married... having kids.. people of all nations happily working and playing together.... Don't get it... unless it is politically inspired... manipulated for profit...

[Persia]

This is nothing new. IN 1984 one of the space shuttles used radar to map the Sahara desert. The radar penetrated several feet in the gound and reveraled many ancient rivers and man made structures.

So 27 years have passed since those radar pictures were made and what has happened? Practically nothing. Why? Very simple. The academic system (the same one that gives us Penn State and their perverts) did not want to do anything. They can blame the late leader of Libya, but that is an excuse.

There is no doubt that if all these ruines were opened the history books will have to be rewritten and that is something the professors do not want to do.

Any link pls ?

[crystal sage]

Any link pls ?

Maybe the ancient cities were destroyed by meteors?

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/ShuttleRetrospective/page5.php

The middle image aboveacquired from shuttle Endeavour in April 1994shows the scars of an asteroid or comet impact in the midst of the Sahara Desert in northern Chad. The concentric rings of Aorounga impact crater, which spans about 17 kilometers (10.5 miles), were buried and filled over thousands to millions of years by sandy sediments. The Spaceborne Imaging Radar-C (SIR-C) and X-band Synthetic Aperture Radar (X-SAR) of Space Radar Laboratory 1 was able to see through the debris to the rocky formation below.

Maybe here > ?

Click on for a closer look at what is marked as..

This is an image of the Sahara Desert. It is the largest desert in the world and covers most of the northern third of Africa. (Courtesy of Aris Multimedia Entertainment, Inc. 1994)

( it is the one after the Hawaiian Islands

you can see the outlines of an ancient city...

http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/earth_il.html

Edited November 19, 2011 by crystal sage

[crystal sage]

... and here... http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/11/111111-sahara-libya-lost-civilization-science-satellites/

... and some more pictures.. http://forum.ourradio.hk/redirect.php?tid=40840&goto=lastpost

Edited November 19, 2011 by crystal sage

[Spectre1979]

I like discoveries like these.

[JR.Fury]

Not been able to read the whole thread sorry because I'm a bit busy in work (not busy enough to skim though ). Anyway I remember reading this in the news and first thing I thought was Iram of the Pillars or Ubar. There's a whole host of supposed lost cities that this could be but regardless it's a great discovery on it's own, without a name.

Geez, if there's issues with funding then give me a broom and dustpan and pay for my flight there government. I'll do the rest on my own!

[crystal sage]

Libya's First Online Museum

http://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/museums-of-libya.htm

http://www.cshss.cam.ac.uk/news/relay/052008.pdf

[Cassea]

So exciting! I love these kinds of finds. Just recently the Whale Graveyard and now this. The planet is so wonderful with so many mysteries and secrets to show us.

[FurthurBB]

Satellite images have revealed the ruins of a long-lost civilisation which existed in what is now the Sahara desert in Roman times and before. Archaeologists hope that the toppling of Libyan dictator Colonel Gadaffi, who has controlled access to the region in modern times, will permit the secrets of the lost cities beneath the sands to be unravelled properly at last.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/09/lost_cities_sahara/

Great story! How exciting.

[FurthurBB]

Could this be the site of the remains of what they thought was the 15000 year old civilization mentioned in 2003 ?

http://www.fromthestars.com/_ancient%20civilizations/page50_h.html

some photos.. of the Libya's south western desert... more than 100 fortified farms, villages with Castlelike structures... at the moment they are saying it is from AD1-500... But

http://www.heritagedaily.com/2011/11/castles-in-the-desert-satellites-reveal-lost-cities-of-libya/

That story was even better.

[jbefumo]

No doubt that, given the chance, fundamentalists will blow them up, as they did those Buddhist statues...

[Space Commander Travis]

This is nothing new. IN 1984 one of the space shuttles used radar to map the Sahara desert. The radar penetrated several feet in the gound and reveraled many ancient rivers and man made structures.

So 27 years have passed since those radar pictures were made and what has happened? Practically nothing. Why? Very simple. The academic system (the same one that gives us Penn State and their perverts) did not want to do anything. They can blame the late leader of Libya, but that is an excuse.

There is no doubt that if all these ruines were opened the history books will have to be rewritten and that is something the professors do not want to do.

Flipping nora, I'd like to nominate this post for the most contrived attempt to squeeze in one's particular hobby horse on a completely unrelated subject. That's right, yes, it was all part of a Conspiracy to protect Perverts.

[Paracelse]

Just found this, unfortunately it's written in French but it's posted on the Kabyles.net site, Kabyles being the first inhabitants of the Sahara.

http://www.kabyles.net/Histoire-de-l-Atlantide-La.html#forum46565

Oupsss it would have helped to place the link

Edited November 24, 2011 by Paracelse

[Jajusha]

Edit: I misread it, these are "200 B.C - 700 A.D." ruins?

These are quite "young" then, phoenician and greek settlements in north africa go back to 600 B.C, and Garamantes presence goes back to 1000 B.C.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Jajusha

[Mr.Gooding]

I like discoveries like this How exciting

[SHaYap]

if there is some sites of possible potential high yields of natural resources /gold/oil/rare earth/coal anywhere within two hundred miles of the area, for certainty there won't be any possibility of further research and much of what is now excited interest would be reduced to an insignificant, unimportant rubble of no historical or cultural value.

The big corporations will see to that, they pay most of the bills for research, the say the final say...

[Damian Bâthory]

If they keep digging they'll find Jesus.....or what's left of him....

[chiole]

Can this be the Lost Atlantis of the Sands?

[encouraged]

Whatever happened to that satellite archaeologist find on the Arabian Peninsula of that old legendary city right near the sea there?

[-M7]

All that sand...whats under the rest of it all.