[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[docyabut2]

I suppose all ancients also had their local floods in other myths.

Edited December 14, 2011 by docyabut2

[The Puzzler]

As for vampyra, thinking more on that, the phrase used "even as vampyra do", may have been added in on any number of copying of the manuscript. I don't think it's a Frisian word, since none start with V unless it's being used as a 'u'. V is not even included in the Frisian dictionary, it's a borrowed word.

That's the thing, we just don't know how much or what has been added in at a later date and when copied again, it appears to be part of what should be there, written originally and doesn't fit.

[docyabut2]

PERIODICITY OF NATURAL CATASTROPHES

A) Discontinuous Subsidence

Around 2500 years ago, in ~ 500 b.C., some ancient European towns founded on river deltas underwent a sudden subsidence which brought them below the sea level. The most evident example is that of the city of Sybaris,(Calabria), which underwent a subsidence of about 6 m. The same thing happened at the same time (~ 500 b.C) to the city of Velia (Campania), which was buried under 4 m af alluvium. Still in 500 B.C. the city of Tartesso, Southern Spain, is said to have disappeared in a short time,Atlantis

Edited December 14, 2011 by docyabut2

[docyabut2]

ME LLAMA MOTHER TARTESSOS

The Tartessos mother calls to me,

so many times called.

I looked for in the distant horizon,

I was beyond the desert,

beyond of the seas,

look for in recondite India,

in the Himalayas stops,

but ay, ...

I did not look for within my...

in my internal one infinitely...

in my internal distant one...

in my internal distant one...

but simultaneously next

that my own retina.

It was a slight scent,

like a orange blossom and to wet earth,

something remembered to me...

I raised the Mountain

and I saw your Guardian... I recognized it...

seized to the Entrance of the Mystic

and Fundamental 7ª Pyramid

of your Thot Son (the Atlante)

...

the one that Waits to you

...

the one that It wraps to you

...

The Guardian of Silencio

...

and suddenly I knew that to eras You.

I saw the ages without Time,

the Passed Lives,

my old encounter.

Once again, I found to you.

...

As I could tenerte without reconocerte,

whichever times it walks your beaches,

whichever times I shook your forests,

whichever times it shakes your waters and

whichever times I sighed by You.

So blind I was,

so ignorante and unconscious...

Very subtle for cogerte,

as hard as for not sentirte...

now I will not leave you,

your bells and your voices,

although still buried and dirty,

soon they shone with the pure light and

the etérea beauty of Immortality.

So many years you slept mother,

that your children no longer we remembered to you.

To the doors of the world we are,

before you we proclaimed your Honor and Memory.

Tartessos,

culture memory primigenia,

of home first,

of a solitude nonlooked for,

of mix-up and distance.

That nostalgia, Tartessos mother I have.

Those days of Unit,

so many races,

so many wealth without weight,

as much original wisdom.

They see mother,

we are prepared for hallarte,

déjate encontrarte and With-prenderte,

[docyabut2]

[Otharus]

the silence about "vampyra" is deafening

I was not impressed at all and have answered.

Pyr/ pier = worm

Appearantly, vampyr/ vampier originally meant bloodsucking worm = leech.

You have been making a major thinking error all along.

Words are (usually) NOT invented by the people who wrote them down for the first time.

We have access to only a tiny fraction of all texts that were ever written down anyway.

Language will not always have changed as fast as it does nowadays.

That the oldest texts in our language are not older than ca. 1000 years ago, does NOT mean that our language was 'invented' only then.

You interpret this 'silence' the way you want to interpret it: that you are right and we are impressed.

But the truth is, that I - more and more - understand that I am wasting my time here.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Otharus

[Alewyn]

But the truth is, that I - more and more - understand that I am wasting my time here.

You can add my name to that.

[The Puzzler]

That was fantastic, thank you docyabut2 for adding it, I'm going to watch it again because I enjoyed the imagery so much.

[The Puzzler]

This part in Josephus mentions the sons of Noah and lines, including the mention of the sons who went to Lydia and Libya, (mentioned before in Wiki).

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=pTY4kBRIVQYC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=libyan+greeks+ethiopians&source=bl&ots=ZgfXDJbERK&sig=Udi8I-vRTl29QdjXYLewsNwh_Bc&hl=en&ei=vnjoTqHvCYaciAfBtoXPCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=libyan%20greeks%20ethiopians&f=false

[Knul]

I was not impressed at all and have answered.

Pyr/ pier = worm

Appearantly, vampyr/ vampier originally meant bloodsucking worm = leech.

You have been making a major thinking error all along.

Words are (usually) NOT invented by the people who wrote them down for the first time.

We have access to only a tiny fraction of all texts that were ever written down anyway.

Language will not always have changed as fast as it does nowadays.

That the oldest texts in our language are not older than ca. 1000 years ago, does NOT mean that our language was 'invented' only then.

You interpret this 'silence' the way you want to interpret it: that you are right and we are impressed.

But the truth is, that I - more and more - understand that I am wasting my time here.

You are wasting our time with such ridiculous posts.

[Abramelin]

Otharus and I both answered you concerning vampyra.

I know, and you both didn't give a satisfactory answer at all.

There were older words (Slavic) that looked somewhat like "vampyra" but then not in the meaning of "bloodsucking undead". There were "ghouls" in the Middle ages that ate the dead and whatever or walked around like zombies, but they were not called "vampires".

It's the combination: vampire in the meaning of bloodsucking undead or simply bloodsucking creatures.

.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

You can add my name to that.

Then give me a short and satisfying answer to why the word "vampyra" in the meaning of "bloodsucking undead/creature" appears to be a very recent invention.

If you show a source from lets say the 13th century that uses that word in that particular meaning, then you 'win'.

[Abramelin]

I was not impressed at all and have answered.

Pyr/ pier = worm

Appearantly, vampyr/ vampier originally meant bloodsucking worm = leech.

You have been making a major thinking error all along.

Words are (usually) NOT invented by the people who wrote them down for the first time.

We have access to only a tiny fraction of all texts that were ever written down anyway.

Language will not always have changed as fast as it does nowadays.

That the oldest texts in our language are not older than ca. 1000 years ago, does NOT mean that our language was 'invented' only then.

You interpret this 'silence' the way you want to interpret it: that you are right and we are impressed.

But the truth is, that I - more and more - understand that I am wasting my time here.

The word is "VAMPYRA", not "Pyr/Pier = worm. What does "VAM" mean then?

You gave no answer to that because you don't know, or don't want to think about that other possibility... that the word is a recent invention (maybe just a 100 years older than the publishing date of the OLB)... or... that it is just another anachronism showing up in the OLB.

[Otharus]

You are wasting our time with such ridiculous posts.

Menno, here's how you can automatically ignore all my past and future posts:

- on the top right of your screen, click on your username

- select "manage ignored users"

- type my username and click "save changes"

Fare well.

[Otharus]

What does "VAM" mean then?

I don't know yet.

[Abramelin]

This part in Josephus mentions the sons of Noah and lines, including the mention of the sons who went to Lydia and Libya, (mentioned before in Wiki).

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=pTY4kBRIVQYC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=libyan+greeks+ethiopians&source=bl&ots=ZgfXDJbERK&sig=Udi8I-vRTl29QdjXYLewsNwh_Bc&hl=en&ei=vnjoTqHvCYaciAfBtoXPCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=libyan%20greeks%20ethiopians&f=false

Yes, and I said the confusion about Lydia (ludim) and Libya (lubim) may have come from a misspelling from a Hebrew/Jewish source.

[Abramelin]

I don't know yet.

That didn't hurt, did it now?

All *I* said is that vampire (OLB "vampyra") in the meaning of a bloodsucking undead/human is a recent invention.

If I am wrong, then it's at you to prove it I am. That sounds a lot better than saying you are wasting your time here.

That's a cheap way out, isn't it?

[Abramelin]

So we now have 2 participants who say they are wasting their time here.

But I also tried to prove a LYDA (OLB) may have existed in ancient times, and was maybe originally called HLUDANA.

Now suppose we find some ancient relief in Europe depicting HLUDANA as a black goddess...

I'll bet they will be back very soon, lol.

+++++

EDIT:

I have been thinking about the "Black Madonna" a European 'goddess' who was probably based on Isis, and later 'changed' into a black Maria. Isis was adopted by many peoples in Europe (from the Romans?), and Isis originally came from Egypt as we know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Madonna

LYDA was an African or simply black Earth Mother Goddess, like that Black Madonna.

It could be that there was a black Earth Mother Goddess in Europe who's original name changed into Isis under influence of the Romans and later on into Black Madonna.

.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Wralda... the supreme, omnipotent, ever-present.. invisible god of the OLB.

Like Yahweh.

Did the ancient people in Europe believe in such a god?

Well, they did, according to Van den Bergh:

Nederlandsche volksoverleveringen en godenleer- L. Ph. C. Van den Bergh (1836)

Page 83 of the pdf (for those who did download it):

It says that the Batavians may have venerated such a god, an "Alvader", a "pure, eternal, almighty spirit", and that they didn't build temples or sanctuaries in its honor.

+++

My point: the idea of Europeans (the Batavians) having a supreme Yahweh-like god was already suggested in 1836, and in a book a Verwijs and a Halbertsma had read.

.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

From the OLB:

USEFUL EXTRACTS FROM THE WRITINGS LEFT BY MINNO.

(...)

In min jüged haev ik wel ênis mort overa baenda thêra êwa, aefter haev ik Frya often tanked vr hjra tex, aend vsa êthla vr tha êwa thêr thêrnêi tavlikt send.

Wr.alda jeftha Alfoder heth mi fêlo jêren jêven, invr fêlo landa aend sêa haev ik omme fâren aend nêi al hwa ik sjan hae, bin ik vrtjûgad that wi allêna trvch Alfoder utforkêren send, êwa to haevande. Lydas folk ne mêi nên êwa to mâkjande ni to hâldande, hja send to dvm aend wild thêrto. Fêlo slachta Findas send snôd enoch, men hja send gyrich, hâchfârande, falsk, vnkûs aend mortsjochtich.

In my youth I often grumbled at the strictness of the laws, but afterwards I learned to thank Frya for her Tex and our forefathers for the laws which they established upon it.

Wr-alda or Alvader has given me many years, and I have travelled over many lands and seas, and after all that I have seen, I am convinced that we alone are chosen by Alvader to have laws. Lyda’s people can neither make laws nor obey them, they are too stupid and uncivilised. Many are like Finda. They are clever enough, but they are too rapacious, haughty, false, immoral, and bloodthirsty.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

[Knul]

Menno, here's how you can automatically ignore all my past and future posts:

- on the top right of your screen, click on your username

- select "manage ignored users"

- type my username and click "save changes"

Fare well.

Sometimes it is better to warn participants and visitors of this thread for the nonsense you tell like pyr = pier = worm !!

[Abramelin]

Sometimes it is better to warn participants and visitors of this thread for the nonsense you tell like pyr = pier = worm !!

Let's try to be a little constructive here...

Vampyra: Otharus said the "pyra" part of the word means (Dutch:) 'pier' or worm.

He had not yet figured out what the 'vam' part might mean.

"wan" is an old Germanic word that has an equivalent in modern English as "un-" or "dis-" or "mis-" in the meaning of "not quite" or "not having" and so on.

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/wanhoop

This is what I found in the Old Frisian Dictionary:

*wan-n (2), *won-n (2), afries., Adj.: nhd. dunkel; ne. dark (Adj.); Vw.: s. -elsa;

Hw.: vgl. ae. wann; E.: germ. *wanna-, *wannaz, Adj., schwärzlich, dunkel; L.: Hh

124a.

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-W.pdf

.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

The word is "VAMPYRA", not "Pyr/Pier = worm. What does "VAM" mean then?

You gave no answer to that because you don't know, or don't want to think about that other possibility... that the word is a recent invention (maybe just a 100 years older than the publishing date of the OLB)... or... that it is just another anachronism showing up in the OLB.

Vampyr is a Slavic word. It would have even been a borrowed word in the OLB. First in an English dictionary is 1734 but the word is older than that in Slavic and discussed in German literature, so the word and knowledge of what one was was prior to it's occurrance in an English dictionary.

The Oxford English Dictionary dates the first appearance of the word vampire in English from 1734, in a travelogue titled Travels of Three English Gentlemen published in the Harleian Miscellany in 1745.[12][13] Vampires had already been discussed in German literature.[14] After Austria gained control of northern Serbia and Oltenia with the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718, officials noted the local practice of exhuming bodies and "killing vampires".[14] These reports, prepared between 1725 and 1732, received widespread publicity.[14]

The English term was derived (possibly via French vampyre) from the German Vampir, in turn derived in the early 18th century from the Serbian вампир/vampir,[15][16][17][18][19] when Arnold Paole, a purported vampire in Serbia was described during the time Serbia was incorporated into the Austrian Empire.

The Serbian form has parallels in virtually all Slavic languages: Bulgarian and Macedonian вампир (vampir), Croatian vampir, Czech and Slovak upír, Polish wąpierz, and (perhaps East Slavic-influenced) upiór, Ukrainian упир (upyr), Russian упырь (upyr'), Belarusian упыр (upyr), from Old East Slavic упирь (upir'). (Note that many of these languages have also borrowed forms such as "vampir/wampir" subsequently from the West; these are distinct from the original local words for the creature.) The exact etymology is unclear.[20] Among the proposed proto-Slavic forms are *ǫpyrь and *ǫpirь.[21] Another, less widespread theory, is that the Slavic languages have borrowed the word from a Turkic term for "witch" (e.g., Tatar ubyr).[21][22]

The first recorded use of the Old Russian form Упирь (Upir') is commonly believed to be in a document dated 6555 (1047 AD).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire

(in Eastern European folklore) a corpse, animated by an undeparted soul or demon, that periodically leaves the grave and disturbs the living, until it is exhumed and impaled or burned.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vampire

If 'u' can transfer to vam or wamm or wam in Frisian:

wam, afries., Sb.: Vw.: s. wam-m

wam-m 1 und häufiger?, wom-m, wam, wom, afries., Sb.: nhd. Fehler, Makel; ne.

fault; Vw.: s. wli-t-e-; Hw.: s. wem-m-a; vgl. got. wamm*, an. vamm, ae. wamm (2),

as. wam*, ahd. *wam (1)?; E.: germ. *wamma-, *wammam, *wammja-, *wammjam,

st. N. (a), Fleck, Mal (N.) (2); s. idg. *øem-, *øemý-, V., speien, erbrechen,

Pokorny 1146; L.: Hh 123b, Rh 1124b

You get faulty, bad, wrong - double wammy!

In Latin pir gets to pio - Latin[edit] Verbpresent active piō, present infinitive piāre, perfect active piāvī, supine piātum.

1.I appease, propitiate

2.I purify, expiate

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pio

faulty purification = undead or undeparted soul.

I get that doesn't really mean blood sucking but imo that could be the original term meaning - not necessarily as we know a vampire as a blood sucker. I know you will say, yeah but it means blood sucker in the OLB, true, but was curious to know what it could mean originally. Just having a guess.

(in Eastern European folklore) a corpse, animated by an undeparted soul or demon,

------------

In Flanders (only) pier/pyr is worm, no idea where that came from. faulty worm?

------------

What does 'wan' have to do with vam or even waMpire?

Edited December 14, 2011 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Puz, it's not just about the word 'vampire', it's also not about the 'blood-sucking ghoul' or whatever, it is about the combination of that word with that meaning.

And THAT combination is a recent one.

[The Puzzler]

Sometimes it is better to warn participants and visitors of this thread for the nonsense you tell like pyr = pier = worm !!

I thought it odd too but found it here...

Dutch still not all senses and etymologies

[edit] PronunciationRhymes: -iːr

audio (file)

[edit] Etymology 1[edit] Nounpier m. (plural pieren, diminutive piertje, diminutive plural piertjes)

1.(zoology) A worm, earthworm (in Flanders)

[edit] Etymology 2English pier

[edit] Nounpier m. (plural pieren, diminutive piertje, diminutive plural piertjes)

1.(architecture) A pier, jetty

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pier