[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Abramelin]

The so called Linear A inscription of Kongsberg might well be a hoax. The article says, that Dr. Aartun translated the text, but ... Linear A has not yet been deciphered at all. The same applies to the Diskos of Phaistos, which shows up in the article.So far only the later Linear B has been deciphered and appears to be Greek.

Could be a hoax, but I haven't found anything yet that points to it being a hoax.

Knowing they found the remnants of a Minoan ship with Minoan artifacts off the west coast of Denmark decades later (German divers) it might well be authentic.

Btw: many have tried to translate Linear A based on the younger Linear B; several characters of those alphabets are the same, not surprisingly.

==

Now this - assuming those Minoan characters are not fake:

USEFUL EXTRACTS FROM THE WRITINGS LEFT BY MINNO.

Minno was an old sea-king. He was a seer and a philosopher, and he gave laws to the Cretans. He was born at Lindaoord, and after all his wanderings he had the happiness to die at Lindahem.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#an

ca 1628 BC

Minno provides laws to the Kretar

http://earth-history.com/Europe/Oera/oera-07-appendices.htm

Let's say Minno returned around 1600 BC in Lindahem and died there soon after. I don't think he returned walking on his own or by hitch-hiking with a backpack, but that he returned on a ship with many of his compadres/compañeros.

He must have returned around the time some Minoan (maybe one of his group) chisseled those Minoan characters into a rock in southern Norway (the OLB "Schoonland"/Skenland, and in Kongsberg, Norway, approx. 1700 BC).

Why are these petroglyphs not looking anything similar to OLB script?

Maybe Minno or one of his friends had something to 'hide'?

I don't think so.

.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I just render Ottema's text like Sandbach's, Wirth's, etc. as it has been printed. I found many mistakes in Ottema's transcription and translation and I do not agree with many of his footnotes. I rather deal with the OLB itself than with the shortcomings of its transriptions, etc.I understood, that you are busy with the proper transcription. So you may add such remarks.

Not yet: I had planned to start with that this weekend.

[Mallaliak]

Chapter 3

Legacy of the Outcasts

..............

The Outcasts

For the next 80 years the Magy kept his subjects under control but in 2012 BC they attacked the Frisian Colony in Skenland. The Magyarar and Finnar advance was brought to a halt by the Skenland citizen force close to its provincial capital Godahisburch – present-day Gothenburg in Sweden. When the Frisian Federal Government was finally notified of the attack, they responded with a combined force of ships, marines and the army. With their superior iron weaponry the Frisians defeated the Mayarar decisively, and the Magy begged for a truce. It would appear that he quite literally offered a peace pipe – stuffed with marijuana, opium or the likes. He enticed the young army general or Warrior King Wodin of the Frisian army to become king of the Magyarar. Wodin duly accepted. Under Frisian law he would have held the position of general for three years only but under the Magyarar his monarchy would have been for life. Instead of an electorate he would now have had subjects and slaves.

Now I might be just bringing up things that has been discussed or proven/disproven long ago since I'm pulling this quote all the way from page 16. I am from near Gothenburg in sweden, so this piece caught my attention. I have never heard of this so called name for gothenburg, as Oera Linda book states.

"Godahisburch" - A name which I can only find mentioned in references to Oera Linda Book, or this thread. (Which brings it all down to a handful of results in total.) It is very peculiar to me that this name does not exist outside this book.

This section I would really appriciate a indepth explenation of, if possible.

[Abramelin]

Now I might be just bringing up things that has been discussed or proven/disproven long ago since I'm pulling this quote all the way from page 16. I am from near Gothenburg in sweden, so this piece caught my attention. I have never heard of this so called name for gothenburg, as Oera Linda book states.

"Godahisburch" - A name which I can only find mentioned in references to Oera Linda Book, or this thread. (Which brings it all down to a handful of results in total.) It is very peculiar to me that this name does not exist outside this book.

This section I would really appriciate a indepth explenation of, if possible.

Hi Mallaliak, welcome to this never-ending thread.

The city was named after the Geats (Swedish: Götar varied: Geatas, Gautar, Goths, Gotar, Gøtar, Götar), the inhabitants of Gothia, now southern Sweden—i.e. "Defence of the Geats".[6] The river on which the city sits is the Göta Älv or Gothia River. Göta borg "Gothia Fortress" is the fort on the Göta River, built to protect the port, which was intended to be Sweden's commercial window to the west

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg

Think "Geatasburg", and you'll know why the OLB calls it "Godahisburch" which means nothing both "Goda His Burg" or better, "Goda's Burg". "Goths' Burg" if you like.

The OLB is great at fabricating alternative etymologies.

.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Abramelin

[Mallaliak]

Hi Mallaliak, welcome to this never-ending thread.

The city was named after the Geats (Swedish: Götar varied: Geatas, Gautar, Goths, Gotar, Gøtar, Götar), the inhabitants of Gothia, now southern Sweden—i.e. "Defence of the Geats".[6] The river on which the city sits is the Göta Älv or Gothia River. Göta borg "Gothia Fortress" is the fort on the Göta River, built to protect the port, which was intended to be Sweden's commercial window to the west

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg

Think "Geatasburg", and you'll know why the OLB calls it "Godahisburch" which means nothing both "Goda His Burg" or better, "Goda's Burg".

The OLB is great at fabricating alternative etymologies.

Oh I am learning that. Already at around page 20 in this thread, and I see "connections" that doesn't exist at all outside this peculiar book. Highly entertaining since it means I have to check if there is the same matter mentioned outside OLB discussions or not. Even if I so far comes up with pretty much nothing existing outside the book, it means I find tiny things I did not know otherwise. Such as the "Sandarnakulturen" (Early stone age culture who caught sea animals.)

[Abramelin]

Oh I am learning that. Already at around page 20 in this thread, and I see "connections" that doesn't exist at all outside this peculiar book. Highly entertaining since it means I have to check if there is the same matter mentioned outside OLB discussions or not. Even if I so far comes up with pretty much nothing existing outside the book, it means I find tiny things I did not know otherwise. Such as the "Sandarnakulturen" (Early stone age culture who caught sea animals.)

If you can strain yourself (lol) and read all of this thread (now that would be a great accomplishemnt) then you will learn that I think that much of the OLB has been 'borrowed' from Viking history, mixed with Frisian, Greek and Roman legends and history.

Add to that the history of the Phoenicians, and you are almost done.

Highly entertaining? Man, I learned so much researching for this topic, it is way better than anything they tried to teach me at highschool.

==

"Sandarnakulturen".. that is the first time I ever heard of that name, and I am glad someone from a former "Fryan colony" (LOL) joins this thread.

[Knul]

Could be a hoax, but I haven't found anything yet that points to it being a hoax.

Knowing they found the remnants of a Minoan ship with Minoan artifacts off the west coast of Denmark decades later (German divers) it might well be authentic.

Btw: many have tried to translate Linear A based on the younger Linear B; several characters of those alphabets are the same, not surprisingly.

==

Now this - assuming those Minoan characters are not fake:

USEFUL EXTRACTS FROM THE WRITINGS LEFT BY MINNO.

Minno was an old sea-king. He was a seer and a philosopher, and he gave laws to the Cretans. He was born at Lindaoord, and after all his wanderings he had the happiness to die at Lindahem.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#an

ca 1628 BC

Minno provides laws to the Kretar

http://earth-history...-appendices.htm

Let's say Minno returned around 1600 BC in Lindahem and died there soon after. I don't think he returned walking on his own or by hitch-hiking with a backpack, but that he returned on a ship with many of his compadres/compañeros.

He must have returned around the time some Minoan (maybe one of his group) chisseled those Minoan characters into a rock in southern Norway (the OLB "Schoonland"/Skenland, and in Kongsberg, Norway, approx. 1700 BC).

Why are these petroglyphs not looking anything similar to OLB script?

Maybe Minno or one of his friends had something to 'hide'?

I don't think so.

.

.

The petroglyphs look like four letter words. Poor professor, who didn't publish his discovery in a learned journal, but in a local newspaper.

[Otharus]

Now I might be just bringing up things that has been discussed or proven/disproven long ago since I'm pulling this quote all the way from page 16. I am from near Gothenburg in sweden, so this piece caught my attention. I have never heard of this so called name for gothenburg, as Oera Linda book states.

"Godahisburch" - A name which I can only find mentioned in references to Oera Linda Book, or this thread. (Which brings it all down to a handful of results in total.) It is very peculiar to me that this name does not exist outside this book.

This section I would really appriciate a indepth explenation of, if possible.

Välkommen till this threat, Mallaliak. I have been hoping that some day a Scandinavian would join.

I learned a bit of Svedish many years ago, and that is one of the reasons why I came to appreciate the language (whether authentic or not) of the OLB, as it seems to be between Frisian, Dutch, English, German and the Scandic languages. If it would not be authentic, it would at least be a great (in fact an unbelievably great) reconstruction.

I look forward to your contributions.

Here's a former post that you might find interesting:

TOPOGRAPHY OF THE O.L.B. ~ part 1: SKÊNLAND

(pagenumbers: Ottema & Sandbach/ original manuscript)

GODA BURCH (SKÊNLAND) = GÖTEBORG (SWEDEN/ SVERIGE)

[075/053] ca. 2000 BC

Thâ wrdon kråfta sâmlath, thri pêlun fon Goda-his burch wrdon hja wither stonden, tha orloch bilêv.

Kât jefta Kâter-inne, alsa hête thju fâm, thêr burchfâm to Goda burch was.

Toen werden krachten verzameld, drie palen van Godasburgt werden zij wederstaan, de oorlog bleef.

Kat of Katerinne, zoo heette de priesteres, die burgtmaagd op Godasburgt was.

Then all the forces were assembled, and three hours from Godasburgt they were withstood, but war continued.

Kat or Katerine was the name of the priestess who was Burgtmaagd of Godasburgt.

[129/093] ca. 590 BC

Thi Mâgy tham sina Fryas svna hagja wilde stald-iri as Moder to Godaburch et Skênland,

mên hju wilde mâr, hju sêid-im thåt sahwersa hi Adela vpruma koste,

hi måster skolde wertha over êl Fryas land.

De Magy, die zijne Fryaszonen behagen wilde, stelde haar aan als Moeder op Godaburgt in Schoonland;

maar zij wilde meer, zij zeide hem dat, bijaldien hij Adela uit den weg ruimen konde,

hij meester zoude worden over geheel Fryas land.

The Magy, who wished to please his sons of Frya, appointed her mother of Godaburgt, in Schoonland;

but she wished for more, and she told him that if he could get Adela out of the way

he might become master of the whole of Frya's land.

LINDASBURCH(T) / LINDASNÔSE (WEST-SKÊNLAND) = LINDESNES (NORWAY/ NORGE)

[125/090] ca. 590 BC

Thêr heth er en burch ebuwad, Lindasburch hêten, vmbe dâna to wrekana vs lêth.

Daar heeft hij eene burgt gebouwd, Lindasburgt geheeten, om daar ons leed te wreken.

There he built a citadel named Lindasburgt, in order there to avenge our wrong.

[179/131] ca. 300 BC

Tha irtha bêterad was, kêm er en hêrtoga fon Lindasburch wêi, mit sin folk ånd en fâm,

thju fâm kêthe allomme: Thene Mâgy is skeldich an al-eth lêt thåt wi lêden håve.

Toen de aarde hersteld was, kwam er een hertog van Lindasburgt met zijn volk en eene maagd,

die alom uitriep: de Magy is schuldig aan al het leed, dat wij geleden hebben.

When the earth was composed there came a duke of Lindasburgt with his people, and one maiden

who cried everywhere, Magy is the cause of all the misery that we have suffered.

[199/147] ca. 300 BC

An tha sûdwester herne fon Skênland, thêr lêid Lindasburcht tonômath Lindasnôse,

thrvch vsa Apol stift, alsa in thit bok biskrêwen stât.

Aan de zuidwestelijke hoek van Schoonland, aldaar ligt Lindasburgt, toegenaamd Lindasneus,

door onzen Apol gesticht, gelijk in dit boek geschreven staat.

In the south-west point of Scandinavia there lies Lindasburgt, called Lindasnôse,

built by one [our] Apol, as is written in the book.

SKÊNLAND / NORTLAND = SCANDINAVIA (other)

[073/050-051] ca. 2090 BC

Skênland blôst, slâvona folka stôppath vppat thin klât, o Frya. (...)

Fon-t êne dêl nis nên tâl to vs ne kêmen,

men thåt ôre dêl fyl åfter to vs Skênland.

Skênland was sunnich bifolkath, ånd anda åfter-kâd thåt sunnichste fon al.

Schoonland bloost, slavenvolken stappen op uw kleed, o Frya. (...)

Van het eene gedeelte is geen bericht tot ons gekomen,

maar het ander gedeelte viel achter in ons Schoonland.

Schoonland was schaars bevolkt en aan de achterkant het spaarzaamst van al.

Schoonland (Scandinavia) blushes, an enslaved people tramples on your garment, Frya. (...)

Of the one no account has come to us,

but the other came in the back of our Schoonland,

which was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part.

[075/052] ca. 2090 BC

Thêr navt flya machton wrdon vrdên, Frya wårth anhropen,

men tha Skênlandar hêdon hira rêd warlâsed.

Die niet vlieden konden, werden gedood. Frya werd aangeroepen,

maar de Schoonlanders hadden haren raad verwaarloosd.

All who could not flee away were killed. Frya was appealed to,

but the Schoonlanders (Scandinavians) had neglected her advice.

[077/055] ca. 2000 BC

Afternêi håvon hja tha strêt Kâtsgat hêten.

Naderhand hebben zij die straat het Kattegat geheeten.

This strait was afterwards called the Kattegat.

[111/079] ca. 590 BC

Thrvch Wodins dor ånd dertenhêd was thene Magy bâs wrden ovir Skênlandis astardêl.

(...) Thju Moder wildet navt wêrha, hja sprêk ånde kêth, ik sja nên frêse an sina wêpne,

men wel vmbe tha Skênlander wêr to nimmande, thrvchdam hja bastered ånd vrdêren sind.

Door Wodins dwaze dartelheid, was de Magy meester geworden over het oosterdeel van Schoonland.

(...) De Moeder wilde het niet weren, zij sprak zeggende: Ik zie geen gevaar in zijne wapenen,

maar wel om de Schoonlanden weer te nemen, omdat zij verbasterd en verdorven zijn.

Through the mad wantonness of Wodin, Magy had become master of the east part of Scandinavia.

(...) The mother would not prevent it. She said, I see no danger in their weapons,

but much in taking the Scandinavians back again, because they are so degenerate and spoilt.

[113/081] ca. 590 BC

In stêde fon tha owera to biwâkande spandon hja hjara horsa for hjara togum ånd runon nêi Skênland thâ.

Tha Skênlander, tham nêy wêron nêi that land hjarar êthla kêmon nêi tha Dênemarkum.

In plaats van de oevers te bewaken, spanden hij hunne paarden voor hunne sleden, en reden naar Schoonland.

Doch de Schoonlanders, die begeerig waren naar het land hunner voorvaderen, kwamen naar de Denemarken.

Instead of watching on the shores, they put their horses in their sledges and drove off to Scandinavia.

Then the Scandinavians, who hungered after the land of their forefathers, came to Denmark.

[125/090] ca. 590 BC

Thâ is Apol min jungere brother fon hyr nêi thêre westsyde fon Skênlând fâren.

Toen is Apol mijn jongere broeder, van hier naar de westzijde van Schoonland gevaren.

Then my younger brother, Apol, sailed from here to the west side of Schoonland.

[149/109] ca. 590 BC

Êr wêron thêr mâr wêst, men sont wi Skênland miste, send hja nêi tha berga gvngon.

Voorheen waren er meer geweest, maar sedert wij Schoonland misten, zijn zij naar de bergen gegaan.

Formerly they were more numerous, but since we lost Schoonland they have gone up to the mountains.

[179/130] ca. 300 BC

Thit skrift is mij ower Nortland jeftha Skênland jêven.

Vndera tida thåt vs land del sêg, wêre ik to Skênland.

Dit geschrift is mij over Noordland of Schoonland gegeven.

Ten tijde dat ons land neder zonk, was ik in Schoonland.

This writing has been given to me about Northland and [or] Schoonland.

When our land was submerged I was in Schoonland.

[179/131] ca. 300 BC

Sont komath tha gode Northljud vâken to Texland vmb there Moder-is rêd.

Thâ wi ne mügath hjam for nêne rjuchta Fryas mar ne halde.

Sedert dien tijd komen de goede Noormannen dikwijls op Texland om raad van de Moeder.

Doch wij kunnen hen niet voor rechte Friezen meer houden.

Since that time the good Northmen come often to Texland for the advice of the mother;

still we cannot [no longer] consider them real Frisians [Fryas].

[219/161] ca. 270 BC

Thju tâle thêra Ast Skênlandar is thrvch tha wla Mâgjara vrbrûd;

thju tâle thêra Kaltana folgar is thrvch tha smûgrige Gole vrderven.

De taal der Oost Schoonlanders is door de vuile Magyaren verdraaid;

de taal der Keltana volgers is door de smerige Golen verdorven.

The language of the East Schoonlanders has been perverted by the vile Magyars,

and the language of the followers of Kaltana has been spoiled by the dirty Gauls.

[251/208] ca. 50 BC

Tha Saxmanna brochten hju ovir hjara marka, mith tha Juttar for hju nêi Skênland

ånd alingen thêre kâd fon tha Balda-sê, mith Askar his stjûrar for hju nêi Britanja.

De Saksmannen brachten ze over hunne marken; met de Jutten voer zij naar Schoonland

en langs de kusten van de Baltische zee; met Askar zijne zeelieden voer zij naar Brittannia.

The Saxsenmen took it over to their marches. The Jutlanders brought it to Schoonland

and along the coasts of the Baltic Sea, and with Askar's mariners it was taken to Britain.

Missed yet another interesting reference to SKÊNLAND (Scandinavia).

Probably (the area of) Uppsala in Sweden is meant:

[Ottema&Sandbach p.6/ original p.3]

Men sin ljuda dêdon mâr:

bern wrdon to sok makad,

nei vpsalândum wêibrocht,

ånd sâhwersa hja vpbrocht wêron an sina vvla lêr,

thån wrdon hja to bek sendon.

Maar zijne lieden deden meer;

kinderen werden te zoek gemaakt,

naar de bovenlanden weggevoerd,

en nadat zij opgevoed waren in zijne verderfelijke leer,

dan werden zij terug gezonden.

His people did even more.

Children disappeared,

were taken away to the uplands,

and after they had been brought up in his pernicious doctrines,

were sent back.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

.

The petroglyphs look like four letter words. Poor professor, who didn't publish his discovery in a learned journal, but in a local newspaper.

It's not the professor who discovered it:

-----------

Did Crete have prehistoric connections with Norway in the Bronze Age?

A Minoan message on a granite slab in Norway.

Johan Jarnaes, a citizen of the small Norwegian town of Kongsberg, is the one making this assertion. Kongsberg is situated 80 km to the west of the Norwegian capital of Oslo. Johan Jarnaes holds university degrees in history, archaeology and languages. On a late evening in autumn 1987 Johan was out for a walk in the outlying fields surrounding the small town of Kongsberg. Due to the low sunlight he discovered some strange, unknown, signs on a flat granite slab. The slab was part of a farmyard belonging to a friend of his. Johan had been on the spot many times, but neither he nor his friend, the owner, had seen these signs before. The signs were revealed only because Johan happened to pass there just at the moment the sun was setting, thus throwing a beam of light onto the slab.

After the slab had been cleaned, some engraved characters became visible.

Jarnaes found the characters sensational since they reminded him at first sight of characters from the classical Greek alphabet. Furthermore he discovered 12 circular cup shaped marks with a diameter of 4 to 8 cm as well as a drawing that apparently was an illustration of a boat! There were also other engravings on the granite slab. The engraving techniques indicated that they had originated in various different eras. In addition to the previously mentioned characters, signs and drawings, Johan discovered an even more peculiar one which had no resemblance to any of the others. The lower part Johan later recognised as a “bag for water or wine”. The strangest was, however, that on the outside of the “bag” a horizontal parallel wavelike drawing was visible. Jarnaes came to the conclusion that the wavelike drawing was apparently meant to describe water! On the top of the bag there was an even stranger sign that reminded him of the letter V in the Latin alphabet. The most mysterious in this whole figure was that the three parallel wavelike lines were identical with the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic sign for water!

The boat was, for Jarnaes, a familiar drawing on many granite slabs in south-western Norway as well as in the Swedish county of “Bohuslan”. The carving technique was very similar to the above mentioned engravings from Kongsberg. Consequently Jarnaes could determine the time period to be the bronze age, 1500 – 2000 BC.

The enigma.

Jarnaes was most surprised. What could these inscriptions possibly mean? They reminded him of characters in the ancient Greek alphabet, but there were also clear indications that the characters were almost a 1000 years older. The origin of the Greek alphabet can be determined with great accuracy to 750 BC.

What happened at Kongsberg before 1623?

The town was founded in 1623 because a shepherd found a large lump of silver. The silver mining led to the rapid growth of Kongsberg which soon became a town of 10,000 inhabitants. By 1958 the silver load had been exhausted and mining was discontinued. In accordance with “the official opinion”, the town of Kongsberg had had no history before 1623. This opinion was, however, not shared by Jarnaes and hisfriends in the “Kongsberg Archaeological Society”. For more than 30 years the society has carried out its own research in order to establish the fact that the town did have a history before 1623. Amongst Jarnaes’ friends were experts in many fields, such as languages, history, archaeology, geology, and astronomy. Jarnaes has summarised the results of this research in a book.

Linear A characters of the writing system belonging to the Minoan civilisation of Crete!

Jarnaes’ idea that the characters could belong to the classical Greek alphabet could not be correct because they were all consonants, whilst the Greek language was particularly rich in vowels. The findings on the granite slab at the farm

“Langkjern” were made in 1987. The enigma remained unsolved until the Norwegian linguist; Kjell Aartun came to Kongsberg in 1994. He is internationally well known in scientific linguistic circles. Amongst others, Kjell Aartun has received a prize from “The Norwegian Academy of Science and Letters” for his research on ancient languages of theMediterranean and theMiddle East. Aartun determined that the characters belonged to the Minoan writing system Linear A, fromCrete.

http://araenil.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/evidence-of-prehistoric-connections-crete-norway/

http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/LinearA/

http://jarnaes.wordpress.com/

[The Puzzler]

Ofcourse it must have made some sort of sentence to you.

I should have said that it made less sense to me than WÉR.HA = weer-hebben = have back (retrieve).

You must be extremely intelligent, but when I invited you to try and translate that fragment, I highly overestimated you.

Maybe you are overestimating yourself, why use a Dutch word when these words can be found in the Frisian dictionary?

nildet navt wer.ha

nilla is 'not want' - this word is also willa as per the Fris. Dictionary or has Ottema really made an error by substituting w for n?

det is ded = deed, fact, fine, injury

nildet = not want injury.

navt is naut/nawet = nothing, not (nor)

wer.ha is wera = be liable.

(the mother) nildet navt wer.ha = the mother not wanted injury nor (to) be liable.

[The Puzzler]

Abe, I think these finds are super interesting, maybe the tide is turning...

In 2005 two professors of archaeology, Kristian Kristiansen, University of Gothenburg, and Thomas B. Larsson, University of Umeå in Sweden, published a book entitled “The Rise of Bronze Age Society” (Cambridge University Press) in which they argue, based on a vast amount of evidence, that the rich and spectacular Early Bronze Age of Denmark and Scandinavia can only be explained in terms of a contact between the Minoan-Mycenaean civilization and Scandinavia.

They write (pp. 235-236): “Mycenaean traders settled in western Mediterranean and established direct trading connections with southern Germany, and thus linked up with the network that reached Jutland and the amber producing areas. Recent archaeological discoveries have completely changed our perception of Mycenaean presence in this part of Europe”. And “a genuine Mycenaean find appeared in a Middle Bronze Age fortified settlement in Bavaria: a gold diadem made of gold foil of the type found in the shaft graves at Mycenae, together with some raw amber.

(…) Mycenaean and south German and even south Scandinavian chiefs had direct personal contacts. (…) Moreover, it makes it easier to understand how east Mediterranean prestige goods, such as folding stools and flange-hilted swords of Mycenaean inspiration, could be transmitted so directly to southern Scandinavia. But why this region – more than other regions in Europe – adopted a Mycenaean cultural idiom as basis for the new Nordic Bronze Age society remains yet to be explained.” And p. 249: “However, foreign origins were most consciously demonstrated in the formation of the Nordic Bronze Age Culture from 1500 BC onwards, basing itself on a Minoan/Mycenaean template.”

The authors also point to the fact that a sign or symbol akin to the Hittite hieroglyph meaning “divine” is among the rock carvings at Fossum in Sweden, associated with images of what could be representations of divinities (p. 342).

Kongsberg could easily be reached from the sea by boats sailing up the Oslo Fjord and Drammen Fjord to Vestfossen. All the way along this route, from Drammen to Vestfossen and Kongsberg, there are big mining areas of other ores, like copper and silver bearing galena (lead), leading on to the Kongsberg mining area.

Minoans, having reached Kongsberg, most likely around 1700 BC, at the heyday of Minoan civilization, when silver could be traded for its double weight in gold in Egypt, and leaving a message on a cult place there, would probably have thanked the gods for what ever riches they had come for. The only reason for their coming to Kongsberg would have been the area’s richness in easily accessible native silver.

The reading of the Linear A inscription at Kongsberg

The inscription on the rock face, “wetuyu piti”, identified, read and translated by Dr Aartun, corresponds, according to the phonetic development as clarified by Dr. Aartun, to modern Arabic “watiy-un / wati’-un” (wetuyu < *watuyu) from the Semitic root WTY // WT), meaning “soft, malleable”, and “baht” (piti < *bihti) from the Semitic root BHT, meaning “unmixed, free from admixture, pure”. Thus the two words “wetuyu piti” can be interpreted as a cult inscription meaning “(the) soft/malleable (and) pure/free from admixture”, probably alluding to the silver in the area, as evidenced by the surrounding mines, and left there in thankfulness to the gods and as a pray for finding more.

Native wire silver is soft, malleable, unmixed and free from admixture, or pure.

http://jarnaes.wordpress.com/1-minoan-crete-linear-a/ The same link Abe gave.

Knul: It does say how Dr Aartun translated the characters.

[Mallaliak]

Välkommen till this threat, Mallaliak. I have been hoping that some day a Scandinavian would join.

I learned a bit of Svedish many years ago, and that is one of the reasons why I came to appreciate the language (whether authentic or not) of the OLB, as it seems to be between Frisian, Dutch, English, German and the Scandic languages. If it would not be authentic, it would at least be a great (in fact an unbelievably great) reconstruction.

I look forward to your contributions.

Here's a former post that you might find interesting:

I took and read the quotes, but this early at the day I saw nothing of the text that would prove it authentic to me. Could I read the entire texts? No, but I could snap up words here and there.

The thing is, the Scandic languages, Dutch and German are similar to each other as it is. When I was studying German in school, it is became quite obvious. It was such a obvious thing to many of us, our teacher could often joke "If you don't know the right word for something, think of the swedish one and try to make it sound German."

Would it be correct then? No, but it would be understandable.

But taking a few looks at the Dutch, Frisian and English language, they are considered all west germanic languages. (Scandinavian ones are north germanic languages). They will look similar to each other if you can understand two or more of the alternatives.

[Otharus]

Maybe you are overestimating yourself, why use a Dutch word when these words can be found in the Frisian dictionary?

nildet navt wer.ha

nilla is 'not want' - this word is also willa as per the Fris. Dictionary or has Ottema really made an error by substituting w for n?

det is ded = deed, fact, fine, injury

nildet = not want injury.

navt is naut/nawet = nothing, not (nor)

wer.ha is wera = be liable.

(the mother) nildet navt wer.ha = the mother not wanted injury nor (to) be liable.

Most amuzing, yes.

You're almost as good as Google Translate.

[Otharus]

When I was studying German in school, it is became quite obvious. It was such a obvious thing to many of us, our teacher could often joke "If you don't know the right word for something, think of the swedish one and try to make it sound German."

When I was in Sweden and tried to speak Swedish, I did the same.

I guessed that "I have forgotten" (dutch: "Ik ben vergeten") would be "Jag har forjetad" (don't know spelling, only learned to listen and speak).

This appeared to be very oldfashioned Swedish, as you nowadays say "Jag har glömt".

[Knul]

It's not the professor who discovered it:

-----------

Did Crete have prehistoric connections with Norway in the Bronze Age?

A Minoan message on a granite slab in Norway.

Johan Jarnaes, a citizen of the small Norwegian town of Kongsberg, is the one making this assertion. Kongsberg is situated 80 km to the west of the Norwegian capital of Oslo. Johan Jarnaes holds university degrees in history, archaeology and languages. On a late evening in autumn 1987 Johan was out for a walk in the outlying fields surrounding the small town of Kongsberg. Due to the low sunlight he discovered some strange, unknown, signs on a flat granite slab. The slab was part of a farmyard belonging to a friend of his. Johan had been on the spot many times, but neither he nor his friend, the owner, had seen these signs before. The signs were revealed only because Johan happened to pass there just at the moment the sun was setting, thus throwing a beam of light onto the slab.

After the slab had been cleaned, some engraved characters became visible.

Jarnaes found the characters sensational since they reminded him at first sight of characters from the classical Greek alphabet. Furthermore he discovered 12 circular cup shaped marks with a diameter of 4 to 8 cm as well as a drawing that apparently was an illustration of a boat! There were also other engravings on the granite slab. The engraving techniques indicated that they had originated in various different eras. In addition to the previously mentioned characters, signs and drawings, Johan discovered an even more peculiar one which had no resemblance to any of the others. The lower part Johan later recognised as a "bag for water or wine". The strangest was, however, that on the outside of the "bag" a horizontal parallel wavelike drawing was visible. Jarnaes came to the conclusion that the wavelike drawing was apparently meant to describe water! On the top of the bag there was an even stranger sign that reminded him of the letter V in the Latin alphabet. The most mysterious in this whole figure was that the three parallel wavelike lines were identical with the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic sign for water!

The boat was, for Jarnaes, a familiar drawing on many granite slabs in south-western Norway as well as in the Swedish county of "Bohuslan". The carving technique was very similar to the above mentioned engravings from Kongsberg. Consequently Jarnaes could determine the time period to be the bronze age, 1500 – 2000 BC.

The enigma.

Jarnaes was most surprised. What could these inscriptions possibly mean? They reminded him of characters in the ancient Greek alphabet, but there were also clear indications that the characters were almost a 1000 years older. The origin of the Greek alphabet can be determined with great accuracy to 750 BC.

What happened at Kongsberg before 1623?

The town was founded in 1623 because a shepherd found a large lump of silver. The silver mining led to the rapid growth of Kongsberg which soon became a town of 10,000 inhabitants. By 1958 the silver load had been exhausted and mining was discontinued. In accordance with "the official opinion", the town of Kongsberg had had no history before 1623. This opinion was, however, not shared by Jarnaes and hisfriends in the "Kongsberg Archaeological Society". For more than 30 years the society has carried out its own research in order to establish the fact that the town did have a history before 1623. Amongst Jarnaes' friends were experts in many fields, such as languages, history, archaeology, geology, and astronomy. Jarnaes has summarised the results of this research in a book.

Linear A characters of the writing system belonging to the Minoan civilisation of Crete!

Jarnaes' idea that the characters could belong to the classical Greek alphabet could not be correct because they were all consonants, whilst the Greek language was particularly rich in vowels. The findings on the granite slab at the farm

"Langkjern" were made in 1987. The enigma remained unsolved until the Norwegian linguist; Kjell Aartun came to Kongsberg in 1994. He is internationally well known in scientific linguistic circles. Amongst others, Kjell Aartun has received a prize from "The Norwegian Academy of Science and Letters" for his research on ancient languages of theMediterranean and theMiddle East. Aartun determined that the characters belonged to the Minoan writing system Linear A, fromCrete.

http://araenil.wordp...s-crete-norway/

http://people.ku.edu...ounger/LinearA/

http://jarnaes.wordpress.com/

Here are some comments on the Kongberg Battle: http://araenil.wordp...s-crete-norway/in which is said that the characters are no Linear A but normal Latin characters.This prof. Aartun is someone like dr. Ottema.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Knul

[The Puzzler]

Most amuzing, yes.

You're almost as good as Google Translate.

What's that supposed to mean? Leave the sarcasm to those who do it best why don't you?

Write the sentence translated into English the exact way it is read in the OLB.

(the Mother) nildet - navt - wer.ha

(the Mother) not wanted injury - nor - liability

[Otharus]

(the Mother) nildet - navt - wer.ha

(the Mother) not wanted injury - nor - liability

NILDET = NE WILDE ET = not wanted it

Another fragment where WÉR HA is used (without the dot) is page 153, line 10.

There it also means "have back".

[The Puzzler]

NILDET = NE WILDE ET = not wanted it

Another fragment where WÉR HA is used (without the dot) is page 153, line 10.

There it also means "have back".

So, you have?

the Mother nildet - navt - wer.ha

the Mother (ne wilde et) not wanted it - then what for navt? - then have back for wer.ha.

the Mother not wanted it - navt? - have back

Edit: To have not for navt - you have: the Mother not wanted it not have back.

That's makes alot of sense, not.

---------------

I edited this post back to this, will do a second one.

Edited January 14, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Here are some comments on the Kongberg Battle: http://araenil.wordp...s-crete-norway/in which is said that the characters are no Linear A but normal Latin characters.This prof. Aartun is someone like dr. Ottema.

I think you are jumping to conclusions here.

This is from the Battle part:

The Battle of Kongsberg

Here is a brief summary:

In connection with the official silver mining of 1623 , a special museum of silver mining was established at Kongsberg. The chief of this museum had spent his life writing The history of silver mining in Kongsberg. If Jarnaes claim could be proven, his lifes work would totally disintegrate. If, in addition to this, evidence could be found that the Minoans came to Kongsberg for silver, and that the characters on the granite slab were Linear A, the catastrophe would be

complete and the old chap would have made a complete fool of himself! The resistance was so severe that it lasted right up to 2007, until the case came under further scrutiny. Jarnaes never gave up; he continued to send e-mails with pictures and even videos to experts in other countries. In 2007 one of these experts became involved and started further research. Costs were covered from foreign sources! One of the tests that the Norwegians had neglected to undertake, in all this time, was the obvious Radiocarbon 14 dating! The very first test blew the 1623 limit miles away!

I am not able to tell anything more at this time, because the research is ongoing. However I have sufficient information to be convinced that Jarnaes will come out of the battle with flying colours! The loser is the Norwegian archaological establishment. They have sabotaged progress on one of the most interesting archaeological sites in the history of Norwegian Archaological science for more than 20 years, for no other motive than to protect a colleague! This case will, in due time, force them to rewrite history!

http://araenil.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/evidence-of-prehistoric-connections-crete-norway/

And this is what you read:

Prehistoric mining at Kongsberg.

(...)

The young man became very enthusiastic with what he saw. He could establish that the incised mark indicated that the carving was most likely from the Bronze Age. The local newspaper reporter, who was there at the same time, printed the news in the next days newspaper, referring to the young man by name. The very next day an extremely angry professor from Oslo arrived on the spot; he was the senior person in the Archaeological and Historical Institute. He demanded that the newspaper reverse all they had written the day before. He determined, there and then, that there were no such things as Bronze Age discoveries or prehistoric mining at Kongsberg. Everything that was printed in the newspaper was caused by the inexperience of his young assistant! The Minoan signs were letters of the Latin alphabet and what Jarnaes claimed were prehistoric mines had nothing to do with mining whatsoever!

From what I understand this professor was a bit 'over the top' with his fierce reaction.

===

Btw, Menno: you always manage to 'kill' any link you post: try to always add a space after a link, or many times it will end up dead.

.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

There's not much to be found about those Kongsberg inscriptions and Aartun.

But here's something related:

72 Date: 2002-05-28 22:16:10

Örjan Svensson ( orjan.svensson@mbox300.swipnet.se / http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93783/) wrote:

> "...we are unconvinced that you indeed can see any semitic script at all on the Blekinge stones."

What I claim is that the runes of the Old Futhark seen for example on the oldest runic inscriptions of Blekinge ARE Semitic.

Further, there are also to be found for example on the Björketorp stone other signs, namely Minoan linear A letters and hieroglyphs, which also are Semitic.

> "...you're not willing to come up with the raw, untranslated semitic texts you supposedly saw, only your own interpretations of them."

False. The runes are covered in great detail here on the web, and I have fully explained also my view of the Minoan signs as well in my book "De blekingska runornas hemligheter".

> "If it was cultish, the activities should point upwards to the world of the gods, forewards to the next generation, outwards to the community."

Not necessarily so in all aspects of the cult. Who said that all aspects of the cult were recorded in the relatively short runic texts?

> "Aartun's poetry does not have this dimension, it is all about genitalia, and is thus unconvincing as proof of the existence of any ancient fertility cult."

The proofs do not lie in the presence or absence of some particular dimension in the texts. The proofs are linguistic in nature and are also founded in gematria and in comparisons, litteral as well as conceptual, with known ancient Semitic texts from the Middle East. By the way I can inform you that there exist several ancient erotic texts, written in Semitic language, which have been found in the eastern Mediterranean area. Also you should consider the following quote from G. Vorberg: "Erotikken er nøkkelen til forståelsen av den gamle verden og dens kultur". ("Eroticism is the key to the understanding of the old world and its culture.") This statement was made by G. Vorberg after he had studied ancient art extensively.

> "However, even on this point, the sheer irrationality of Aartun's pseudoscience has yours beaten hands down: many of Aartun's poems have in fact no sexual content at all; this is provided only in Aartun's interpretations of his own poems."

Wrong again. Take for example Tjurkö Bracteat 1, which I translate as "In life's old age, at the appointed time, then our joy rises thick and high at last." This could very well be interpreted as non-sexual. Maybe this text is only speaking about increased happiness in old age. I can however agree that the sexual content is more expressly clear generally in the Blekinge inscriptions than in the runic inscriptions located in Norway and treated by Aartun. But to speak about someone's hands being "beaten down" in conjunction with this is of course complete rubbish, and has nothing to do with the matter.

> "Like Aartun, of course, you do not accept that one can agree that there may be some undocumented link between ancient semitic and indo-european cultures without thus proving every aspect of your interpretations of the texts you say that you see."

False. I allow you to be free to agree on whatever you want.

> "Really: if you're Swedish, you should be able to guess what the headlines in an Icelandic newspaper mean. And that language is no more archaic than the newest runic insciptions; indeed, there are runic inscriptions in Scandinavia that show more modern linguistic developments than any Icelandic newspaper does."

Yes, this may be so. However, I am not dealing with the newest runic inscriptions. I am dealing with some of the OLDEST ones, which are very different from the newest.

> "And the runic inscriptions that everyone but you and Aartun see, show the older forms of the language, stopping around the year 200. I don't see where there's anything unacceptable in this theory; I just plain don't see the need to postulate the existence of semitic fertility cults that saw a need to carve pornographic poetry in stone. Always believe the more likely theory."

Yes, do so. Believe in the more likely theory.

If you think that for example "niuhAborumkA

niuhagestAumkA hAþuwolAfkgAfjA hArAwolAfkmAgeAjusnuhwe

hidekrunonofelAArekAhederAgAnoronok

herAmAlAsAkArAgeuwelAdudsAþAetolAbAriutiþ AruA" (Stentoften) sounds like an old form of Icelandic, then you are free to believe so, but I am afraid that you have a severe lack of evidence for backing up such an unfounded belief.

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93783/guestbook/guestbook.html

[Otharus]

So, you have?

For the record, an essential translating error by Ottema (1876), copied by Sandbach (1876) and Raubenheimer (2011).

Context:

The Denamarka were occupied by the Magí (1602 after Aldland had sank) and the Mother didn't want them back, because the people there would already have been bastardised and wasted.

OLB, original manuscript [page 079/ line 18]

THJU MODER NILDET NAVT WÉR.HA

Dutch: Ottema p.111

De Moeder wilde het niet weren

English: Sandbach p.111; Raubenheimer (2nd edition, 2011) p.369

The mother would not prevent it

Correct translation:

Dutch: De Moeder wilde het niet weer (=terug) hebben

English: The Mother didn't want to have it back

Edit: To have not for navt - you have: the Mother not wanted it not have back.

That's makes alot of sense, not.

NE ... NAVT is a most common construction in the OLB to make a sentence negative (like French: ne ... pas).

Edited January 14, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

Yes, I agree with Otharus: even today a socalled 'double negative' is common in many languages.

[Otharus]

Yes, I agree with Otharus: even today a socalled 'double negative' is common in many languages.

Thanks

[Abramelin]

Minos is the Cretan word for "king",[3] or indeed, to take a euhemerist position, the name of a particular king that was subsequently used as a title. There is a name in Minoan Linear A mi-nu-te that may be related to Minos. According to La Marle's reading of Linear A,[4], which have been heavily criticised as arbitrary [5] we should read mwi-nu ro-ja (Minos the king) on a Linear A tablet. The royal title ro-ja is read on several documents, including on stone libation tables from the sanctuaries, where it follows the name of the main god, Asirai (the equivalent of Sanskrit Asura, and of Avestan Ahura). La Marle suggests that the name mwi-nu (Minos) is expected to mean 'ascetic' as Sanskrit muni, and fits this explanation to the legend about Minos sometimes living in caves on Crete.[6] If royal succession in Minoan Crete descended matrilinearly— from the queen to her firstborn daughter— the queen's husband would have become the Minos, or war chief. Some scholars see a connection between Minos and the names of other ancient founder-kings, such as Menes of Egypt, Mannus of Germany, and Manu of India,[7][8] and even with Meon of Phrygia and Lydia (after him named Maeonia), Mizraim of Egypt in the Book of Genesis and the Canaanite deity Baal Meon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minos

===

min-n-e 6 = reconciliation

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/ne-afries.pdf

===

Menno:

Friese naam: koosvorm, afgeleid van het Germaanse woord 'Meine' of 'Mein' (soms nog meer verkort tot 'men-') wat een verkorting is van het woord 'megin-' dat 'kracht' betekent.

Translation:

Menno:

Frisian name: nickname, derived from the German word "Meine" or "Mein" (sometimes even more shortened to "men") which is an abbreviation for the word "megin" which means "power".

http://www.heiligen.net/pdf/M/MEINE~ABMENNO.pdf

=

Babynaam: Minne

Geslacht: Mannelijk/Vrouwelijk

Oorsprong: Fries

Betekenis Minne: Minne is een Friese naam met als betekenis "de sterke" of "de beschermer". Minne betekent in Duitsland "liefde".

http://www.babynaam.info/babynaam-betekenis.php?babynaam=Minne

Translation:

Babayname: Minne

Gender: Male/Female

Origin: Frisian

Meaning Minne: Minne is a Frisian name meaning "the strong" or "the protector". In Germany Minne means "love" [and also in Dutch, btw: "minnen" is "to love"]

===

mind (n.)

O.E. gemynd "memory, thinking, intention," P.Gmc. *ga-menthijan (cf. Goth. muns "thought," munan "to think;" O.N. minni "mind;" Ger. minne, originally "memory, loving memory"), from PIE base *men- "think, remember, have one's mind aroused" (cf. Skt. matih "thought," munih "sage, seer;" Gk. memona "I yearn," mania "madness," mantis "one who divines, prophet, seer;" L. mens "mind, understanding, reason," memini "I remember," mentio "remembrance;" Lith. mintis "thought, idea," O.C.S. mineti "to believe, think," Rus. pamjat "memory"). "Memory" is one of the oldest senses, now almost obsolete except in old expressions such as bear in mind, call to mind. Phrase time out of mind is attested from early 15c.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=mind&searchmode=none

++++

Edited January 14, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Abe, I think these finds are super interesting, maybe the tide is turning...

<skip>

The tides will be turning as soon as the OLB script turns up in inscriptions in Kongsberg (or elsewhere).

If true, it was Linear A, and thus nothing even remotely similar to the OLB script.

Even soon after the "OLB event" (2194 BC) the OLB script was turned into something totally different, according to the OLB.

But even at that time the Phoenicians still used a script that was very readable, even up to this day and age. A clean, clear , and very readable script.

Something is not right here...

The OLB wants us to believe that people first used something resembling Latin script (a lot), and then invented something resembling Chinese pictograms.... because people didn't understand the OLB characters were made using the Yule wheel, and because they wanted to 'hide' things.

If you believe that, you will also believe there is a 100 dollar bill lying on the surface of Pluto.

.

.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Abramelin