[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Abramelin]

That this was the "Aldland" mentioned in the OLB is not likely, but the idea that it was once much bigger and known as "Frisland" is quite reasonable and worth taking very seriously.

I am almost convinced it was Frisland Island, just by the fact that Frisian pirates once lived on the Faroer, plus the similarity between names on the Zeno map and those on the Faroer.

.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

My version in English:

By morning (sunrise/east) we bordered on the utter end of the East Sea (= Baltic), by evening (sunset/west) on the Middle Sea, so that besides the little streams we had twelve large sweet running streams, given to us by Wr.alda to keep our land healthy and to show our brave people the way to his sea.

This is Sandbach's version:

Eastward our boundary went to the extremity of the East Sea, and westward to the Mediterranean Sea; so that besides the small rivers we had twelve large rivers given us by Wr-alda to keep our land moist, and to show our seafaring men the way to his sea.

Yes, your version is an improvement.

[Otharus]

... but Jensma is NOT a linguist.

He is a historian.

In fact, he received his doctorate (with his OLB dissertation) at the theologic faculty...

[Otharus]

To me, showing that the language of the OLB is what the book itself says it is, is very important and the more the language is looked at, the more we will understand about the people of Europe.

Yes I agree.

Language is the foundation of consciousness.

[Otharus]

An example of 'historical facts' in the OLB that are quite false is those citadels no one has ever found one single brick or stone of, not anywhere in Europe, not anywhere else.

For ages we must have had an abundance of perfect oakwood here.

Great material for ships, artwork and buildings... as well as fire.

[Otharus]

Yes, everyone is doing their best, not all of us think a meteor impact that is never mentioned is the be all and end all of the OLB.

I agree that there's many more interesting themes in OLB than the disaster part alone.

[Abramelin]

For ages we must have had an abundance of perfect oakwood here.

Great material for ships, artwork and buildings... as well as fire.

Yep, and they still find remnants of structures made from oak. Even the oldest boat in the world (Pesse, Drenthe), of about 9000 years old.

[Abramelin]

I would not use anything from him.

LOL, I searched using his name, and I found a couple of forums where everyone hates his guts!

These sites appear to be his:

http://frya.angelfire.com/

http://www.coven-of-cythrawl.com/traditional_witchcraft.htm

And this is from that last site: http://www.angelfire.com/realm/oam/oera.htm but it's gone.

But this site - the Bulfinch site - is not his:

http://levigilant.com/Bulfinch_Mythology/bulfinch.englishatheist.org/linda/Oera-Linda.htm

Anyway, all I wanted to know what he (and his Frisian friends) had made of a couple of OLB lines I posted today.

+++

EDIT:

I remember he once posted that he wanted to completely redo that page about the Oera Linda Book for he acknowledged the fact that there were many errors in his translation.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I agree that there's many more interesting themes in OLB than the disaster part alone.

Agreed, but if there is a 100% physical proof that all these disasters really took place in Europe in 2194 BC, then I think you will be drunk for a week, lol.

[Otharus]

Ottema's darkest side

The letters between dr. Ottema and the Over de Lindens (first Cornelis and later his son Leendert Floris) show that there is one thing they kept disagreeing about and this may be a tiny but most important detail:

The translation and interpretation of the word "od" in the "forma skédnise" (creation myth).

Ottema insisted that it meant "hate" (from Latin), while Cornelis suggested it would have to do with fertility (from Saxon and old-Norse), which makes much more sense in the context anyway.

Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden (translated from letter in Dutch dated 26-1-1876):

"Od (anger, rage, hate, animosity) trad to-ra binna, means that hate entered the hearts of the three daughters of Irtha; this hate was obviously inherited by all of their descendants, and this is cause of the inborn, innate animosity specially in Finda's and Lyda's posterity against Frya's children. An animosity that will not end until the people of Finda and Lyda will be exterminated, and the people of Frya at the final victory will remain and inherit and posess the whole earth.

This animosity dominates all of history in the OLB and still goes on in our days. Frya's people pervade in all continents and establish European supremacy all over the earth. Everywhere the peoples of Finda and Lyda will have to submit or disappear."

If Ottema really believed that his very own family name was derived from a word that means "hate", it is no surprise that his life ended the way it did.

~ ~ ~

By now, I think Ottema's soul will have burnt long enough in the hell that he created for himself (as a matter of speaking).

~ ~ ~

Later I will translate parts of a letter from Cornelis Over de Linden, that demonstrate a completely different (positive) attitude.

(I didn't copy that yet in the archives.)

Edited February 2, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

Ottema's darkest side

The letters between dr. Ottema and the Over de Lindens (first Cornelis and later his son Leendert Floris) show that there is one thing they kept disagreeing about and this may be a tiny but most important detail:

The translation and interpretation of the word "od" in the "forma skédnise" (creation myth).

Ottema insisted that it meant "hate" (from Latin), while Cornelis suggested it would have to do with fertility (from Saxon and old-Norse), which makes much more sense in the context anyway.

Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden (translated from letter in Dutch dated 26-1-1876):

"Od (anger, rage, hate, animosity) trad to-ra binna, means that hate entered the hearts of the three daughters of Irtha; this hate was obviously inherited by all of their descendants, and this is cause of the inborn, innate animosity specially in Finda's and Lyda's posterity against Frya's children. An animosity that will not end until the people of Finda and Lyda will be exterminated, and the people of Frya at the final victory will remain and inherit and posess the whole earth.

This animosity dominates all of history in the OLB and still goes on in our days. Frya's people pervade in all continents and establish European supremacy all over the earth. Everywhere the peoples of Finda and Lyda will have to submit or disappear."

If Ottema really believed that his very own family name was derived from a word that means "hate", it is no surprise that his life ended the way it did.

~ ~ ~

By now, I think Ottema's soul will have burnt long enough in the hell that he created for himself (as a matter of speaking).

~ ~ ~

Later I will translate parts of a letter from Cornelis Over de Linden, that demonstrate a completely different (positive) attitude.

(I didn't copy that yet in the archives.)

I hope you have a peek now and then, Otharus, because I did find something about the name "Ott":

(I will give both the Dutch lines with the translated lines in pairs)

Otto, Ottens, Otte(n), Hoete, Otté, Ote, Oth(e), Ott, Ots, Ottes(en), Ottosen

Patroniem naar de Germaanse voornaam Otto, deze is afgeleid van het Germaanse ot.

Patronymic to the Germanic first name Otto, it is derived from the Germanic ot.

http://home.scarlet.be/marcel.vervloet/FpageO.htm

ot: rijkdom, erfdeel, zie od

ot: wealth, inheritance, see od

od, ot, ôd, oda, odâl, odo, odela, otto, ôthal: vaderlijk erfgoed, bezit, rijkdom, bewaarder

od, ot, ôd, oda, odâl, odo, odela, otto, ôthal: paternal heritage, property, wealth, custodian

http://home.scarlet.be/marcel.vervloet/GERM.htm

So the name Ott does have a meaning, and it's based on the Germanic 'ot'/'otto'.

But it also doesn't make a lot of sense in the context in which it is used in the OLB.

That's why I think 'od' must be seen in the meaning Reichenbach gave to it in 1845: vital energy or life force. .... and that would mean someone used that recent definition for 'od' in his creation of the OLB.

++++

EDIT:

Thinking about it a little bit more, I think "wealth", "riches", maybe in the meaning of "prosperity", is not a bad option, but in any case a lot better than Sandbach's "hatred":

-1- Thâ hja blât kêmon spisde Wr.alda hjam mith sina âdama;

-2- til thju tha maenneska an him skolde bvnden wêsa.

-3- Ring as hja rip wêron krêjon hja früchda aend nochta anda drâma Wr.aldas.

-4- Od trâd to-ra binna:

-5- aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên.

-6- Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

-1- When the last came into existence, Wr-alda breathed his spirit upon her

-2- in order that men might be bound to him.

-3- As soon as they were full grown they took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wr-alda.

-4- [ Hatred ] found its way among them.

-5- They each bore twelve sons and twelve daughters—at every Juul-time a couple.

-6- Thence come all mankind..

.

[Abramelin]

Damn, I thought I read it here about all those different meanings of "OD", but that was on your blog, lol.

Two screens open, not good.

I thought it would be a good idea the tuck everything in one post.

Oh well.

[Otharus]

Damn, I thought I read it here about all those different meanings of "OD", but that was on your blog, lol.

You mean this:

An example to clarify

(OLB page 6; FORMA SKEEDNISE):

"... RING AS HJA RIP WEERON KREEION HJA FRUUCHDA AND NOCHTA ANDA DRAMA.

WR.ALDA.S OD TRAD TO RA BINNA. AND NW..."

The translations:

Ottema 1876 (dutch):

"Zoodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vermaak en genoegen in de droomen van Wralda.

Haat trad tot haar binnen."

Sandbach 1876 (english):

"As soon as they were full grown they took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wr-alda.

Hatred found its way among them."

Wirth 1933 (german):

(He just left out "RING ... DRAMA"!!!)

"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein..."

Overwijn 1941 (dutch):

"Zodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vreugde en genoegen in de dromen van Wralda.

Geneugte kwam tot haar."

Jensma 1992 (dutch):

"Zodra zij volwassen waren, kregen ze vreugde en plezier in de dromen van Wralda.

Een spits trad in hun binnen, ..."

Snyman 1998 (afrikaans):

"En toe hulle volgroeid was, het hulle vreugde en genoegdoening geput uit die visioene van Wralda.

Haat het (egter) hulle harte binnegedring."

Jensma 2006 (dutch):

"Zo rap als ze rijp waren, kregen ze vreugde en genoten in Wralda's extase.

Gelukzaligheid trad tot hen binnen, ..."

de Heer 2008 (dutch):

"Zodra zij rijp waren kregen zij vreugde en genoegen en dromen.

Wralda's licht trad bij hen binnen, ..."

Note that de Heer (2008) is the first to correctly put the point between "dromen" and "Wralda´s".

Overview of the various translations of "OD":

Haat; Hatred (Ottema 1876, Sandbach 1876, Snyman 1998)

Gottes Odem; God´s breath (Wirth 1933)

Geneugte; pleasure (Overwijn 1941)

Een spits; a phallic object (Jensma 1992)

Gelukzaligheid; bliss (Jensma 2006)

Licht; light (de Heer 2008)

[Abramelin]

Yes, that was it.

Maybe "OD" could simply mean "lust"?

Like in "They were filled with lust".

"Entered by lust" or "Lust found its way among them" would sound a bit crappy.

.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Maybe "OD" could simply mean "lust"?

Like in "They were filled with lust".

"Entered by lust" or "Lust found its way among them" would sound a bit crappy.

LOL, yes, I'd prefer that to "hate".

Actually, I am sure that the whole reception history of the OLB would have been completely different.

Cornelis Over de Linden tried to warn Ottema, but the latter was too stubborn, or maybe he had a dark hidden agenda...

Edited February 2, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

LOL, yes, I'd prefer that to "hate".

Actually, I am sure that the whole reception history of the OLB would have been completely different.

Cornelis Over de Linden tried to warn Ottema, but the latter was too stubborn, or maybe he had a dark hidden agenda...

I really should read those letters, damn. But every time another hint or idea bubbles up in my mind and then I forget about them.

"They became overpowered by lust".. (=geil als apen). I assume that would have been a bit too much for the "Fijnen",

What do you mean with Ottema maybe had a 'dark hidden motive'?

Now I am curious...

+

Btw: that post about "nehal" was inspired by a book I have, a predecessor of Iman Wilkens' book I posted about, and it's called "Homerus, Zanger der Kelten"" (Homerus, bard of the Celts) by Ernst Gideon, a book I bought when I was about 17 years old.

Gideon said Nehal was a goddess venerated in Egypt (that in relation to what he wrote about Nehallenia). But I didn't find a goddess called "Nehal" in Egypt.

.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Abramelin

[Van Gorp]

I really should read those letters, damn. But every time another hint or idea bubbles up in my mind and then I forget about them.

"They became overpowered by lust".. (=geil als apen). I assume that would have been a bit too much for the "Fijnen",

What do you mean with Ottema maybe had a 'dark hidden motive'?

Now I am curious...

+

Btw: that post about "nehal" was inspired by a book I have, a predecessor of Iman Wilkens' book I posted about, and it's called "Homerus, Zanger der Kelten"" (Homerus, bard of the Celts) by Ernst Gideon, a book I bought when I was about 17 years old.

Gideon said Nehal was a goddess venerated in Egypt (that in relation to what he wrote about Nehallenia). But I didn't find a goddess called "Nehal" in Egypt.

.

Following Schrieck:

Ne: een

Helena: Hel ene, descend in

Nilos: N'Hel Hos, the one that comes down from high

Hellen means to incline

[Otharus]

L.F. Over de Linden ("Beweerd maar niet bewezen", 1877) also refers to this:

"The most important peculiarity, concerning the origin of our numbers - called 'Arabic', but never used by the Arabs - the peculiarity that these numbers, in the 'Yul' as in the manuscript, appear as ornamentfigures in the decorations of the Alhambra, the greatest memorial of Morish architecture in Spain..."

Can anyone provide pictures of these decorations?

I found them:

Compare:

Source:

The Arabian antiquities of Spain, by James Cavanah Murphy, London 1813

Comment from dr. Ottema in a letter to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 4-3-1875 (translation):

"For our ciphars we are not indebted to the Arabs, for the simple reason, that they never used such figures as ciphars, and we therefore could not have gotten ours from them."

[Abramelin]

I found them:

Compare:

Source:

The Arabian antiquities of Spain, by James Cavanah Murphy, London 1813

Comment from dr. Ottema in a letter to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 4-3-1875 (translation):

"For our ciphars we are not indebted to the Arabs, for the simple reason, that they never used such figures as ciphars, and we therefore could not have gotten ours from them."

Great find, Otharus!

So this is what Ottema saw when he visited the Dutch Royal Library?

[Abramelin]

Ottema's darkest side

The letters between dr. Ottema and the Over de Lindens (first Cornelis and later his son Leendert Floris) show that there is one thing they kept disagreeing about and this may be a tiny but most important detail:

The translation and interpretation of the word "od" in the "forma skédnise" (creation myth).

Ottema insisted that it meant "hate" (from Latin), while Cornelis suggested it would have to do with fertility (from Saxon and old-Norse), which makes much more sense in the context anyway.

Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden (translated from letter in Dutch dated 26-1-1876):

"Od (anger, rage, hate, animosity) trad to-ra binna, means that hate entered the hearts of the three daughters of Irtha; this hate was obviously inherited by all of their descendants, and this is cause of the inborn, innate animosity specially in Finda's and Lyda's posterity against Frya's children. An animosity that will not end until the people of Finda and Lyda will be exterminated, and the people of Frya at the final victory will remain and inherit and posess the whole earth.

This animosity dominates all of history in the OLB and still goes on in our days. Frya's people pervade in all continents and establish European supremacy all over the earth. Everywhere the peoples of Finda and Lyda will have to submit or disappear."

Yeah, I get it now, Ottema's 'dark side'... he's a first class racist.

[Otharus]

So this is what Ottema saw when he visited the Dutch Royal Library?

It was pointed out to him by dr. Campbell, director of the Royal Library in The Hague.

[Otharus]

Yeah, I get it now, Ottema's 'dark side'... he's a first class racist.

The Nazi's wanted to exterminate 'only' the Jews, but Ottema's ideal was that all yellow and black people would 'disappear'...

Interestingly, in the OLB a completely different final victory is idealised.

From HEL.LÉNJA.S SKRIFTA:

[OLB p.140/18 with translation Sandbach, and some corrections by me]

MEN AS THA PRESTERA SKILUN WÁNA THÀT HJA ALLET LJUCHT FON FRYA ÀND FON JES.US LÉRE UTDÁVATH HÀVA.

But when the priests fancy that they have entirely extinguished the light of Frya and Jessos [Jes-us],

SÁ SKILUN THÉR IN ALLE VVRDA MÀNNISKA VPSTONDA THAM WÉRHÉD IN STILNISE AMONG EKKORUM WARATH ÀND TO FÁRA THA PRESTERA FORBORGEN HÀVE.

then shall all classes of men [in all places] rise up who have quietly preserved the truth among themselves [eachother], and have hidden it from the priests.

THISSA SKILUN WÉSA UT FORSTA BLOD. FON PRESTERUM BLOD FON SLÁVONUM BLOD ÀND FON FRYA.S BLOD.

They shall be of princely blood, of priests, Slavonic [slaves], and Frya's blood.

THAM SKILUM HJARA FODDIKUM ÀND THÀT LJUCHT BUTA BRINGA SÁ THAT ALLERA MÀNNALIK WÉRHÉD MÉI SJAN.

They will make their light visible [bring out their 'foddiks' and the light], so that all men shall see the truth;

HJA SKILUN WÉ HROPA OVERA DÉDA THÉRA PRESTERA ÀND FORSTA.

they shall cry woe to the acts of the princes and the priests.

THA FORSTA THÉR WÉRHÉD MINNA ÀND RJUCHT THAM SKILUN FON THA PRESTERA WIKA.

The princes who love the truth and justice shall separate themselves from the priests;

BLOD SKIL STRÁMA.

blood shall flow,

MEN THÉRUT SKILET FOLK NYE KRÀFTA GÁRA.

but from it the people will gather new strength.

FINDA.S FOLK SKIL SINA FINDINGRIKHÉD TO MÉMA NITHA WENDA.

Finda's folk shall contribute their industry [inventiveness] to the common good,

THÀT LYDA.S FOLK SINA KRÀFTA ÀND WI VSA WISDOM.

Linda's folk their strength, and we our wisdom.

THA SKILUN THA FALXA PRESTERA WÉI FÁGATH WERTHA FON JRTHA.

Then the false priests shall be swept away from the earth.

[Otharus]

Another titbit of info I found:

"Neef Teunis" voor "Neptunus" vinden we bij Pieter Langedijk

(Nef Teunis or "Neptune" we find in [a poem of] Pieter Langedijk

http://www.archiefleeuwardercourant.nl/vw/article.do?id=LC-19700110-7008&vw=org&lm=meij%2Coera%2Clinda

As "Nepthuin" and ""Neptuin" 1751

Dr. Ottema in a letter to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 13-6-1876 (translated from Dutch):

"On a memorial stone of Domburg Neef Teunis is standing next to Nehalennia.

You can also see him on the tower of Zierikzee, where he has the job of weather vane,

and all his life was known to the people of Zierikzee as nothing other than Neef Teunis."

Image of the weather vane in Zierikzee, known to the 19th century inhabitants as "Neef Teunis" (old-Dutch name for Neptune?).

Edited February 3, 2012 by Otharus

[Alewyn]

No Abramelin, you didn't miss it. You can't find one because there's not one. The earth's axial tilt is in a continuous 41,000 year cycle. As we both know, for the earth's axis to be affected to such a degree that it would be significantly altered, all life on earth would be extinguished. As to Alewyn's idea, the outer mantle would have to slide over the earth as a whole otherwise crustal/tectonic buckling would be in widespread evidence and would show evidence of dating to the timeframe of c.2200 BC. This is unevidenced anywhere on the globe. And as I've shown over in the current "Thera" thread, with the re-evaluation of the Egyptian timeline due to radiocarbon dating, the Old Kingdom (which Alewyn continues to claim ended in 2193/2194 BC) would have actually ended c.2225 BC. So no matter which way one looks at it, his specific date per the OLB is STILL wrong.

cormac

I am amazed that you still do not get it after almost 2 years of discussion on this site. Let me try to explain this in simple terms:

1. My book is about the Oera Linda Book.

2. The Oera Linda Book quotes the date of 2193/2194 BC as the date of an enormous disaster that struck Europe and wiped out almost everybody.

3. Because I am examining the OLB, I have to see whether the date of 2193/2194 BC is credible. I cannot change that date – do you or don’t you agree?

4. Now I start looking what else happened around the globe at around the same time and I find an abundance of evidence of collapsed civilizations, massive floods and tsunamis around 2200 BC – that is only 6 or 7 years different from the OLB’s date of 2193/2194 BC. In archaeological terms this is spot on. So, you see, I have no grounds to change the date even if I could.

Your radio carbon date of c. 2225 BC for the demise of the Old Egyptian Kingdom is only 31 to 32 years different from the OLB’s date over a period of 4200 years! Yet you want to put this forward as proof that the OLB is wrong? You must be joking. No radio carbon date is that accurate especially if earth’s climate and orientation relative to the sun were substantially different at the time from the data that are used in putting together calibration tables and graphs.

Your statement, that the outer mantle would have to slide over the earth as a whole and that all life on earth would be extinguished, is pure conjecture. No one at this stage can even start to model the forces and mechanics involved in such an event. Even if they could, the specific set of conditions could only be one of a limitless number of scenarios. Yet, you put it down as a proven fact.

I keep on asking the question which I have asked Abramelin many times.

What caused the global turmoil in 2200 BC and the subsequent drying up of the great African lakes and the desertification of North Africa? All the old scribes described a very sudden event which included cosmic activity. The OLB is the only one which does not describe meteorites, possibly because these happened remote from Europe or were obscured by the cloud cover the book describes.

The book nevertheless describes the results which are consistent with other accounts.

[Otharus]

The suggestion that a book is loved mostly by neo-nazi's and other extremists is an effective way to make it taboo to speak openly about it (in other words suppress it).

More about the taboo on taking the OLB seriously:

Dr. Ottema in a letter to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 24-6-1876 (translated from Dutch):

"I wish someone would act who is courageous enough to defend the OLB in public, without fear for the systematic intimidation.

Because all the howling is intimidation, started by Spectator magazine and systematically sustained.

There are enough proponents, but they dare not speak, out of fear of being declared fool or villain."

Edited February 3, 2012 by Otharus