Ayatollah lays out basis for Israel attack

[Erikl]

A website with close ties to Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has outlined why it would be acceptable to kill all Jews and annihilate Israel. Conservative site Alef has published a doctrine detailing why the destruction of the nation and the slaughter of all its people would be legally and morally justified.

SOURCE

Edited February 7, 2012 by Saru
Edited to remove mountain of copyrighted material

[keithisco]

He is just an old man with little life left. He wants to "shuffle off this mortal coil" with the God he purportedly believes in, as a Martyr or saint or whatever the Islamic equivalent of that is. Perhaps he is just looking forward to his 40 odd virgins that he has been promised. I really dont know, except that this is no threat, and giving him any kind of publicity will only inflate his enormous sense of self - importance.

[Erikl]

That might well be, but he's still the supreme leader of Iran. The ones who claimed Ahmadinejad has no real power in Iran and so his rants, as barbaric as they are, mean nothing, need to revise at it seems this line of genocidal nazi-like thinking runs all the way to the top.

[+and-then]

That might well be, but he's still the supreme leader of Iran. The ones who claimed Ahmadinejad has no real power in Iran and so his rants, as barbaric as they are, mean nothing, need to revise at it seems this line of genocidal nazi-like thinking runs all the way to the top.

No, Erikl, Keithisco has probably already stated the consensus opinion you'll receive here..."it's nothing, there's no real threat". I wonder how he'd feel if the rant was directed against,say, Brit expats in Spain? The thing that really sickens me is that when Jews ARE killed or when Israel IS attacked the same people here who think this way will just say Israel and the Jews "had it coming" if they have the guts to be honest.

[+DieChecker]

SOURCE

I guess this pretty much bombshells the Iran-appologists who said that Iran simply wanted to remove Israel from its maps and text books. They admit openly that they want to wipe out the Jews in Israel.

Hopefully for both nations, this is just a lot of Talk.

[Fluffybunny]

No, Erikl, Keithisco has probably already stated the consensus opinion you'll receive here..."it's nothing, there's no real threat". I wonder how he'd feel if the rant was directed against,say, Brit expats in Spain? The thing that really sickens me is that when Jews ARE killed or when Israel IS attacked the same people here who think this way will just say Israel and the Jews "had it coming" if they have the guts to be honest.

In my opinion you are not accurate on the "consensus". Perhaps that is how you see it, because not everyone agrees with you, but there are plenty of people who have a legitimate concern for israel, but simply do not wish to be pulled into another war.

More to the bottom line, people are tired of ten years of war with nothing to show for it but a mountain of debt and a lot of hurt, dead, and damaged soldiers. The US has been giving israel billions of dollars in military supplies and cash, that should allow them to have an amazing military right? Well they do have an amazing military, well trained, well equipped and ready to go in a moments notice. If they wish to start something, then that is their right. We do not need to be there to hold their hand.

It is going to take several years to get our Army back to the shape it was once in before endless tours with dwindling supplies of equipment in working order, and soldiers in healthy shape and not torn up mentally and physically by multiple tours. I have had several tours of several bases over the last few years, the condition of our equipment is frightening, and the soldiers(always ready to fight) are mentally shot from years of combat duty, something that not even their grandparents would have dreamed of in WWII when the average tour of duty on the battlefront was 90 days. Now it is close to a year, with multiple returns. We do not have a big enough military to be in perpetual war. If we really had to defend ourselves from an attack at this point, we would be in trouble.

If you really want to help, I bet Erik knows some recruiters that would be able to take you so you can be a part of this action you feel so strongly about. It would give you a chance to see war firsthand and have a better idea as to how willing you might be in the future to jump on the "Let's bomb'em Bandwagon".

[+and-then]

In my opinion you are not accurate on the "consensus". Perhaps that is how you see it, because not everyone agrees with you, but there are plenty of people who have a legitimate concern for israel, but simply do not wish to be pulled into another war.

More to the bottom line, people are tired of ten years of war with nothing to show for it but a mountain of debt and a lot of hurt, dead, and damaged soldiers. The US has been giving israel billions of dollars in military supplies and cash, that should allow them to have an amazing military right? Well they do have an amazing military, well trained, well equipped and ready to go in a moments notice. If they wish to start something, then that is their right. We do not need to be there to hold their hand.

It is going to take several years to get our Army back to the shape it was once in before endless tours with dwindling supplies of equipment in working order, and soldiers in healthy shape and not torn up mentally and physically by multiple tours. I have had several tours of several bases over the last few years, the condition of our equipment is frightening, and the soldiers(always ready to fight) are mentally shot from years of combat duty, something that not even their grandparents would have dreamed of in WWII when the average tour of duty on the battlefront was 90 days. Now it is close to a year, with multiple returns. We do not have a big enough military to be in perpetual war. If we really had to defend ourselves from an attack at this point, we would be in trouble.

If you really want to help, I bet Erik knows some recruiters that would be able to take you so you can be a part of this action you feel so strongly about. It would give you a chance to see war firsthand and have a better idea as to how willing you might be in the future to jump on the "Let's bomb'em Bandwagon".

Kind of a "one trick pony" aren't you, guy? Enough with the I bled and if you didn't you have no right to speak. You have no clue who I am or what I've done and the last time I checked, this forum was open to anyone who's willing to be CIVIL. I GET what you're saying about the military. I AGREE with what you're saying about the military. Maybe you should actually READ my comments thoughtfully instead of going off with the same old drivel every time. I have no need of history lessons from you. And NOTHING you've said in any way invalidates my opinions or changes them. And in what way are my OPINIONS threatening to anyone, anyway? As was pointed out to me a little earlier this day, this is a discussion forum. So why complain to me about about a war I didn't START and you VOLUNTEERED to fight? Just know it gets tiresome to read after awhile.

[ExpandMyMind]

Anyone else think Pseudo Intellectual has been reincarnated?

[Wyvernkeeper]

Anyone else think Pseudo Intellectual has been reincarnated?

Think I remember arguing with that guy about something, whatever happened to him>?

edit: And on the OP, hardly surprising... The apologists seem to be quiet too...

Edited February 8, 2012 by Wyvernkeeper

[+and-then]

Think I remember arguing with that guy about something, whatever happened to him>?

edit: And on the OP, hardly surprising... The apologists seem to be quiet too...

Did I miss something? I kind of lost my temper a bit there and then the next two posts don't seem to be about the OP. Who is/was "pseudo intellectual"?

[odas]

That might well be, but he's still the supreme leader of Iran. The ones who claimed Ahmadinejad has no real power in Iran and so his rants, as barbaric as they are, mean nothing, need to revise at it seems this line of genocidal nazi-like thinking runs all the way to the top.

So you would not cooperate with genocidal nazi like thinking countries and views?

[Fluffybunny]

Kind of a "one trick pony" aren't you, guy? Enough with the I bled and if you didn't you have no right to speak. You have no clue who I am or what I've done and the last time I checked, this forum was open to anyone who's willing to be CIVIL. I GET what you're saying about the military. I AGREE with what you're saying about the military. Maybe you should actually READ my comments thoughtfully instead of going off with the same old drivel every time. I have no need of history lessons from you. And NOTHING you've said in any way invalidates my opinions or changes them. And in what way are my OPINIONS threatening to anyone, anyway? As was pointed out to me a little earlier this day, this is a discussion forum. So why complain to me about about a war I didn't START and you VOLUNTEERED to fight? Just know it gets tiresome to read after awhile.

Where did I say you had no right to speak? I did read your post thoughtfully, and I did respond in same, you seem to be reading something that I am not saying. I didn't mention myself or my military time, only speculation on how many are tired of ten years of war and how it has impacted our ability to fight, I wrote something completely different for 3 paragraphs that you seem to not even notice in response to the op, and your earlier post, Interesting.

I have a different opinion than you do, but I think "drivel" is a tad strong, but it seems interesting that you fall back on a comment like that after just a couple discussions, and brief ones at that. Hmmm. Very interesting.

Anyone else think Pseudo Intellectual has been reincarnated?

Yeah, something seems rather familiar huh?

[Q24]

Can anyone here translate Persian?

From what I can determine, the original article appears to specifically note the plan is the opinion of the author and not endorsed by the Iranian government.

Which would make the source headline and article entirely disingenuous.

Not that I'd be surprised coming from American right wing media.

[+and-then]

In my opinion you are not accurate on the "consensus". Perhaps that is how you see it, because not everyone agrees with you, but there are plenty of people who have a legitimate concern for israel, but simply do not wish to be pulled into another war.

More to the bottom line, people are tired of ten years of war with nothing to show for it but a mountain of debt and a lot of hurt, dead, and damaged soldiers. The US has been giving israel billions of dollars in military supplies and cash, that should allow them to have an amazing military right? Well they do have an amazing military, well trained, well equipped and ready to go in a moments notice. If they wish to start something, then that is their right. We do not need to be there to hold their hand.

It is going to take several years to get our Army back to the shape it was once in before endless tours with dwindling supplies of equipment in working order, and soldiers in healthy shape and not torn up mentally and physically by multiple tours. I have had several tours of several bases over the last few years, the condition of our equipment is frightening, and the soldiers(always ready to fight) are mentally shot from years of combat duty, something that not even their grandparents would have dreamed of in WWII when the average tour of duty on the battlefront was 90 days. Now it is close to a year, with multiple returns. We do not have a big enough military to be in perpetual war. If we really had to defend ourselves from an attack at this point, we would be in trouble.

If you really want to help, I bet Erik knows some recruiters that would be able to take you so you can be a part of this action you feel so strongly about. It would give you a chance to see war firsthand and have a better idea as to how willing you might be in the future to jump on the "Let's bomb'em Bandwagon".

Yes, I've noticed the many pro Israel posters here...

I considered the last paragraph tantamount to a taunt and the several that preceded it as a lecture. It p***ed me off and I reacted. That doesn't often happen to me but it did in this instance. As far as my response being "very interesting", glad you found something of value in it.

Apparently I post in a fashion that reminds some people here of another individual. I have enough baggage of my own without being compared to someone else but if anyone needs to make that an issue - so be it

[Yamato]

Can anyone here translate Persian?

From what I can determine, the original article appears to specifically note the plan is the opinion of the author and not endorsed by the Iranian government.

Which would make the source headline and article entirely disingenuous.

Not that I'd be surprised coming from American right wing media.

It's even worse than that. We can't even get the context of many sound bytes right when translating from English to English. The gang of liars known as the US media is already proven to butcher the meaning of rhetoric coming out of Iran in whatever way they can to sell the hapless dupes their war.

The attitude this story carries is rife with double standard as usual. As if, Iran doesn't have a right to weapons, doesn't have a right to self-defense, doesn't have a right to attack anyone, doesn't have a right to arm other people that someone doesn't politically agree with. We presume all of these rights for ourselves and those we politically agree with, so should they. Everyone who really wants to squabble over this hypocritical nonsense should go get suited up and get themselves killed over it; there's some self-responsibility and a silly little conflict I would actually endorse for once. It's always way too damned convenient when it's someone else's blood and someone else's money.

[+DieChecker]

It is going to take several years to get our Army back to the shape it was once in before endless tours with dwindling supplies of equipment in working order, and soldiers in healthy shape and not torn up mentally and physically by multiple tours. I have had several tours of several bases over the last few years, the condition of our equipment is frightening, and the soldiers(always ready to fight) are mentally shot from years of combat duty, something that not even their grandparents would have dreamed of in WWII when the average tour of duty on the battlefront was 90 days. Now it is close to a year, with multiple returns. We do not have a big enough military to be in perpetual war. If we really had to defend ourselves from an attack at this point, we would be in trouble.

I would disagree just a little. I was in the US Army in 1994-97, and did quite a bit of training with National Guard. And they suked. The current military we have is the most experienced since the Korean War. Equipment is just equipment. Our guys fight more on Quality then Quantity, or Gear. If we laid back for 8 or 10 years, we'd loose like 75% of that experience base. Maybe 90%. I agree our guys are tired and worn down, but if another war MUST be fought, I'd rather we fight with our experienced military we have now, rather then a doughboy military 10 years down the road.

[Farmer77]

Can anyone here translate Persian?

From what I can determine, the original article appears to specifically note the plan is the opinion of the author and not endorsed by the Iranian government.

Which would make the source headline and article entirely disingenuous.

Not that I'd be surprised coming from American right wing media.

The Iranian state run media supposedly carried the story giving the appearance of governmental approval of the article.

[Fluffybunny]

I considered the last paragraph tantamount to a taunt and the several that preceded it as a lecture. It p***ed me off and I reacted. That doesn't often happen to me but it did in this instance.

I find it very funny/odd that the very mention of you recruiting to fight for your beliefs is considered a taunt(not that you would ever do it), but when you speak of the US going into a war that would take my son back into battle(and heck, even me if things went sideways) it is not something similar...why isn't wanting to send people I love into combat as much as a taunt as asking you to fight for what you believe in?. I have the risk of losing a son, friends, family and in an extreme case, myself fighting for a war YOU want, but you don't even think about that, the death of my family wouldn't make a bit of difference to you as long as israel is safe, right?

Who cares as long as you get what you want? You risk nothing, but are willing to send other to die for your cause.

Most men faced with the question of fighting for what they believe in would at least respond that they wish they could if it weren't for their age, or health or whatever...but not you. Volumes...it speaks volumes.

[+and-then]

I find it very funny/odd that the very mention of you recruiting to fight for your beliefs is considered a taunt(not that you would ever do it), but when you speak of the US going into a war that would take my son back into battle(and heck, even me if things went sideways) it is not something similar...why isn't wanting to send people I love into combat as much as a taunt as asking you to fight for what you believe in?. I have the risk of losing a son, friends, family and in an extreme case, myself fighting for a war YOU want, but you don't even think about that, the death of my family wouldn't make a bit of difference to you as long as israel is safe, right?

Who cares as long as you get what you want? You risk nothing, but are willing to send other to die for your cause.

Most men faced with the question of fighting for what they believe in would at least respond that they wish they could if it weren't for their age, or health or whatever...but not you. Volumes...it speaks volumes.

And your comments about someone you don't know speak clearly of the kind of person you are as well. I make no apologies for my opinions and if you have a problem with your service or that of your family then that ALSO speaks volumes about you. Freedom of speech is a right given me by our constitution - not by you or anyone else who wears the uniform. If dumping on a stranger in an internet forum somehow eases your feelings of the country not appreciating your sacrifice enough then I'm glad to be dumped on.

What I don't understand about you as a man is how you can see with your own eyes the EVIL in these places and still be unmoved by the need to resist it as a nation. And if you look at Iran or Syria and equate them with Israel then you are(at best) being willfully ignorant.

In your universe only service members should be able to speak or hold opinions about when war will be waged. When has that EVER been true?

I've shown you far more respect than I've received and that also speaks volumes about you.

[+and-then]

I find it very funny/odd that the very mention of you recruiting to fight for your beliefs is considered a taunt(not that you would ever do it), but when you speak of the US going into a war that would take my son back into battle(and heck, even me if things went sideways) it is not something similar...why isn't wanting to send people I love into combat as much as a taunt as asking you to fight for what you believe in?. I have the risk of losing a son, friends, family and in an extreme case, myself fighting for a war YOU want, but you don't even think about that, the death of my family wouldn't make a bit of difference to you as long as israel is safe, right?

Who cares as long as you get what you want? You risk nothing, but are willing to send other to die for your cause.

Most men faced with the question of fighting for what they believe in would at least respond that they wish they could if it weren't for their age, or health or whatever...but not you. Volumes...it speaks volumes.

And I did mention it in another post - but that wouldn't fit into your diatribe.

Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:47 AM

Fluffybunny, on 04 February 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Well, considering that is one of his jobs, then he is doing the right thing.

What would you have him do? What are YOU willing to risk with a strike to iran? Are you going to enlist and risk your own blood to defend israel? Is it that important to you? are you willing to send your son off to die, or be permanently disabled and unable to have a normal life...is it that important to you?

It is really easy to want other people to die for your wants and wishes, when there is no risk to you, or your family there is no real risk, so going to war makes sense. Have you ever served?

You obviously have close ties to israel. That's great. Why should my son have to die or risk his life(again) in order to make you happy? What are you going to put on the table to make the risk even?

I am sorry...I know you have your concerns, but so do I, so do all the other active duty members of the service, all of the families of those that will go and risk their lives and die horrible deaths. In my experience the people that want war never seem to be the people with any risk involved, they never seemed to have served their country, and think that this country has a blank check to fight one war after another, yet want school funding to be cut to make up the difference.

This is very personal to me. I come from a family of soldiers and sailors that have all bled for this country in every war that has happened from day one. My son continued in those footsteps and spent 2 tours in Iraq. He is already getting calls from recruiters wanting to know if he would like to come back to active duty...

Wars are inevitable. Wars are sometimes necessary. When it comes to people wanting Americans to go fight and die to protect another country we have no obligation to, (and have given billions upon billions in military supplies and cash so that they can defend themselves) Then I just wonder how they can ask such a thing in good conscience. I guess it is easier when you do not risk anything...

First, thank you for your and your family's tradition of service. I say that with all sincerity. I enlisted (Army) in '86 and 7 weeks in at Fort Jackson,SC I was separated due to fractures in both feet. So NO I have not served. I would if I could and I know it's easy to say but it's true.

I am not advocating for a war to protect Israel as some abstract exercise of Zionistic fervor on my part. The purpose of the post was to discuss the reasoning behind why the SecDef would seemingly "tip the hand" of an ally preparing for war. Perhaps I didn't structure the OP well enough. Regardless the politics of the situation if Israel decides to attack then the US will be in another conflict. One of unknown dimensions or duration and the consequences could be much more harsh for those "safely" at home here.

As I said in an earlier post I believe that the fate of the US and Israel were irrevocably intertwined when Israel became a nuclear State. When it comes to nukes the world is irrevocably intertwined. The option of just ignoring a nuclear State that may be ready, for whatever reason, to use them is a nonstarter. JMO but if another of these weapons is ever used it will be a crossing of a modern Rubicon. Wherever the world ends up will be a much worse place.

EDIT:The point of mentioning that Obama was primarily interested in "protecting the troops" was that I believe it was his way of telling Israel that they are in it alone. Of course it is, hopefully, a primary goal of any US president to try to minimize losses to the men and women who wear our uniform. Again, I guess I just didn't structure the OP so well...

This post has been edited by and then: 04 February 2012 - 11:00 AM

Hine ma tov uma nayim shevet achim gam yadcha!

Top

Report

Blog This

MultiQuote

Reply

#21 and then

[ninjadude]

how you can see with your own eyes the EVIL in these places and still be unmoved by the need to resist it as a nation. And if you look at Iran or Syria and equate them with Israel then you are(at best) being willfully ignorant.

We are not the world's policeman. we don't have the resources. Or will. What you advance is the very same argument that caused foolish people to approve invading iraq for theological reasons.

[wittyusernamefailed]

Israel in it's current reincarnation really should not have been reborn in the way it was by the British and UN. The world made them a country without regard to the makeup of the middle east, or with a thought as to the millions that were displaced to create it. If anything it should be located on the shores of the Rhine from reparations from Germany for the atrocity of the Holocaust. But we helped create the state of Israel. and thus to a point we have a moral stake in it's protection. And when the true power behind a theocracy speaks about how it would be ok to wipe it off the map, we should at least perk up the ears a tad.

[Yamato]

I'd tear a chunk out of Germany's rear end right now and give it to the Jews so they can get all their bad blood out cooing over themselves in Europe where they were being exterminated. That would be justice. Oh I'm so "anti-Germanic". Or as the always-predictable morally and intellectually confused Zionist would call me, a Nazi.

[Erikl]

How wonderful that Ayatolah and his gang has supporters among the members of forum .

I say let's dismantle wittyusernamefailed's and Yamato's countries (whichever they are) and relocate them somewhere else.

Why is it ok to talk about the dismantling of any existing country, is behind my grasp .

[+and-then]

If all the countries that were arbitrarily drawn into or out of existence after the world wars were relocated it would only change the location of the conflict - not the nature of it. But no argument is being made for that... only Israel needs to be relocated.

The only problem with that scenario is that Israel would light up the region before being "relocated" because they know that it's not their location that's the real issue. It's their right to exist as a Jewish State that cannot be tolerated. If I ask an opponent in negotiations what can I do to satisfy your demands? And he says - Die - then negotiations are over.