[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[cormac mac airt]

It is YOUR early version of the "Oera Linda Book", ok?

Much like every other post-Christianized version of Ancient Irish history to the time of Christ, it's a work of fiction. OK?

cormac

[Abramelin]

Much like every other post-Christianized version of Ancient Irish history to the time of Christ, it's a work of fiction. OK?

cormac

Yes, I agree, but the difference is this: O'Conner claims to have translated from ancient manuscripts ("Phoenician/Scythic"), about 40 years before Cornelis Over de Linden claimed something similar with his ancient "family chronicle".

Even the date of the Deluge according to O'Connor is close to the OLB date of 2194 BC (2170 BC).

To me it seems an Over de Linden got inspired by O'Connors fabrication of ancient Irish history.

Frisians vs. Hollanders

Irish vs. English.

.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Look at the birds.... they fly and fly, and they dont give a flying **** about our pity problems.

Are they careless? No, of course they are not.

We are just not that 'important' to them at all.

And that is the thought to end this day, my compadres.

We are nothing but sht.

Dung.

.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

Yes, I agree, but the difference is this: O'Conner claims to have translated from ancient manuscripts ("Phoenician/Scythic"), about 40 years before Cornelis Over de Linden claimed something similar with his ancient "family chronicle".

Even the date of the Deluge according to O'Connor is close to the OLB date of 2194 BC (2170 BC).

To me it seems an Over de Linden got inspired by O'Connors fabrication of ancient Irish history.

Frisians vs. Hollanders

Irish vs. English.

.

Yeah, and O'Conner's claims are just as meaningless since there's no evidence these ancient manuscripts ever existed. But basing one fabrication off of another? Yeah, why not?

cormac

[Abramelin]

Yeah, and O'Conner's claims are just as meaningless since there's no evidence these ancient manuscripts ever existed. But basing one fabrication off of another? Yeah, why not?

cormac

Hello. I do know O'Connors claims are meaningless.

I just wanted to say..... oh, never mind.

Cormac. I really AM a skeptic.

But.. I am not a prick.

I have my moments of fantasy, please excuse me.

But there is the difference: I DO know I am having a fantasy.

And that is contrary to what many others here post as their 'beliesf'.

I have NO belief. I DOUBT.

And that is why I often talk from where the sun doesnt shine.

Bye, and have a good sleep/

Edited February 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

Hello. I do know O'Connors claims are meaningless.

I just wanted to say..... oh, never mind.

Cormac. I really AM a skeptic.

But.. I am not a prick.

I have my moments of fantasy, please excuse me.

But there is the difference: I DO know I am having a fantasy.

And that is contrary to what many others here post as their 'beliesf'.

I have NO belief. I DOUBT.

And that is why I often talk from where the sun doesnt shine.

Bye, and have a good sleep/

You ought to know by now that I don't write everything for just your benefit. There are others who likely don't realize that O'Conner's work is just as fictional as any other Christian related Irish "history".

cormac

[The Puzzler]

Gallic

1670s, from L. Gallicus "pertaining to Gaul or the Gauls," from L. Gallia "Gaul" and Gallus "a Gaul" from a native Celtic name (see Gaelic), though some connect the word with prehistoric W.Gmc. *walkhoz "foreigners" (see Welsh). Originally used in English rhetorically or mockingly for "French." The rooster as a symbol of France is based on the pun of Gallus "a Gaul" and L. gallus "rooster."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=gallus

From the OLB:

Tha Gola, alsa heton tha saendalinga prestera Sydon-is.

Dutch: De Gola, alzo heten de zendeling priesters Sydon's.

English: The Gola, as the missionary priests of Sydon were called.

תרנגול (tarnegól) m.

Of Sumerian: Tarlugal (Bird of the King), loaned by Assyrian and onwards to Talmudic Hebrew.

1.rooster, c.ock, chicken

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%AA%D7%A8%D7%A0%D7%92%D7%95%D7%9C

.

Right, so Sumerian and Latin seem to share this gal for rooster.

The priests of Cybele, the Mother Goddess were called Galli as well, weird thing is, it was thier 'rooster' they cut off, becoming eunuchs in the process - it seems to have some relation, the Galli cut off thier gals...I dunno, weird.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I notice now Knul added some in about the Galli - it could have even been the priests of Cybele, the Mother, that became Celtic Druids, called Gauls, Galli, which was really the name of the priests only - the rest had no name - like the Magyar priests, the people were un-named as a whole, but the priests were called Galli, so they became all known as Gauls, roosters, they say it might be from a different etymology but I doubt it.

Edited February 22, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Right, so Sumerian and Latin seem to share this gal for rooster.

The priests of Cybele, the Mother Goddess were called Galli as well, weird thing is, it was thier 'rooster' they cut off, becoming eunuchs in the process - it seems to have some relation, the Galli cut off thier gals...I dunno, weird.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I notice now Knul added some in about the Galli - it could have even been the priests of Cybele, the Mother, that became Celtic Druids, called Gauls, Galli, which was really the name of the priests only - the rest had no name - like the Magyar priests, the people were un-named as a whole, but the priests were called Galli, so they became all known as Gauls, roosters, they say it might be from a different etymology but I doubt it.

Say Puzz, I posted about those "Celts" a bit more than just 'roosters': an O'Connor in 1822 claimed to have read and translated "ancient manuscripts written in Phoenician/Scythic".

Should that not bother those believing in the OLB?

Well, must be just me then...

.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

You ought to know by now that I don't write everything for just your benefit. There are others who likely don't realize that O'Conner's work is just as fictional as any other Christian related Irish "history".

cormac

Oh really? I know it is fictional, but the difference is that this O'Connor claims to have read ancient manuscripts.

That is not just 'fictional', that is a fabrication very much like the OLB. The only difference is that O'Connor didn't copy the ancient script and language into his book.

But maybe that is to be found in 'volume 2'...

.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

(Not mentioned by Jensma, as far as I know.)

Under the pseudonym "Piet Paaltjens", he wrote this poem ca. 1850:

Aan Rika

Correction: Jensma (2006) did mention "Aan Rika" in footnote (p.409).

[Abramelin]

To give an impression of that 'ancient Irish/Phoenician/Scythian' manuscript, here's part of the first chapter:

THE WRITING OF EOLUS

PART THE FIRST.

CHAP. I,

Eolus was Chief of Gael-ag from the year 1368 to

1335 before Christ. He gives the traditionary

history of the Scythians from the earliest point of

time marked to his own days. This chapter contains

an account Of the mighty revolution, that put

an end to the Scythian dominion in Asia and the

foundation of the Assyrian empire on the ruins

thereof; being a space of time noted of 3144

rings or years.

O WISDOM, thou art to be preferred to all things,

to impart wisdom is the duty of all men. He who

possesseth wisdom, and neglecteth to instruct others,

hoardeth what should be shared ; it is a treasure that

may be lavishly bestowed, without injury to the

donor ; yea the donor enricheth himself by the gift.

Wisdom is the knowledge of truth direct without

doubt.

Hearken, my son, to the words of our great fathers;

from them our fathers heard the lessons of wisdom

in the words of truth, passed by them to us that

now be, and from us to be delivered to those who

are to come ; so, till time of this earth shall be no

more, which will not be, till Baal shall withdraw

the light of his countenance, the fire of his spirit

from the children of this world.

Many are the truths still hidden from man ; who

can declare at what time the waters were rolled

from off this earth ?none(a.) Who hath informed

man how he was made ? how long his

dwelling was in the bosom of the vast deep how

or when he ceased to breathe in that element ?

none, ( b )

Who hath disclosed the first dimensions of all

things ? Who hath noted the degrees of their decrease?

Who can tellby what means can man

now discover the causes of the production of all

things ? (c )

It is said Baal formed every thing from the earth,

the water, and the air, and into man alone breathed

the spirit of fire, pure essence of himself, the effect

whereof is reason.

Thus is it said, who knoweth how truly? with

whom did Baal hold talk ?at what time did he

draw nigh unto the children of men ? which one of

the sons of man did ever approach Baal] who is he

that ever heard the sound of the voice of Baal, that

he could distinguish the words of his breath ? doth

Baal speak aloud to make man affear'd ? who can

tell his words ?none.

Man imaginethAre the thoughts which he di-

vulgeth to his fellow just ?

For myself I ask, and none can tell, how came

Baal himself? is he not composed of materials the

same as all other living beings, his huge dimensions,

his might and power, effects of combinations unknown

to man ?

Many are the things beyond the reason which

man possesseth : he may fancywhat availeth fancy ?

it is of no avail ; reason and wisdom reject such, as

misconceptions of vanity.

Man would be thought to know all things, even

of the air, and for lack of wisdom flyeth to deceitful

fancy, the vain, the ignorant, the credulous is

one,wisdom, truth, and reason is one other.

My Son,Do thy utmost to attain to the certain

knowledge of things of this world within the scope

of thy understanding. List not to idle dreams of airy

fantasy ; contemplate ever so deeply on things thy

senses cannot reach, all thy contemplations will come

round to the' point whereat they commence;

Where?They commenced in fancyin fancy

they will end.

Are there not things in abundance level with thy

comprehension worthy of all thy care ?Hast thou

not parentsthe father who begatthe mother who

bared and suckled, tenderly reared thee up, anxiously

watched over thy helpless stateHast thou none of

thy mother'swombno partner of thy secret thoughts,

hast thou no childrenare no friends thine ?

Hast thou not a name to be spoken of now,to

be remembered in after times ?how great the joy

to hear the voice of praise raised in memory of our

forefatherswhat glory to the racewhat an exaltation

to all those descended from their loins!

Hard hath been the lot of him, whose spirit hath

taken its flight to mingle with its kindred eliments,

no mention made of him in times to come--untoward

hath been the mind of him, who hath not left a trace

of his existence amongst menor to be remembered

by reason only of his evil deeds.

How glorious to gain immortality, by having infused

a portion of his spirit into the children of

man, to abide on the earth for ever.

My Son,Pursue not phantoms of imagination,

study thyselfcall to mind continually the materials

of which thou art composedif much of them is

prone to the sluggishness of earth, the instability of

water, the inconstancy of nimble air, remember the

fire of thy spirit hath power to controul and direct,

if thou wilt keep it pure.

Oh ! that man should suffer his passions to subdue

his reason, the fire of his spirit smothered, all

but extinguished,are earth, air, and water, more

powerful than fire ?is matter more potent than

spirit ?

Why delighteth man to do what he condemneth

in another ?Why doth he unto his fellow, what he

would not that his fellow should do unto him ?

The heart of man is proudhe coveteth power

and pre-eminence ; he will gain them by deeds of

evil, without reflection ; he listeneth to the voice of

the seducer, the false flattering tongue that betrayeth

unruled passions hurry him onfolly taketh

dominion of such an one ; reason hath departed

from him, his spirit was weak.

My Son, -- Let all thy actions be such, that when

thy bulk shall be inanimate, thy spirit shall live for

ever in the hearts of men.

My Son,Hear the tale of times of old ; hear of

our race the renowned of the earth. What time

our fathers marked not, is as the cloud that hath

passed away, no note takenno memorial preserved:

Let us speak of times measured by Baal in his

circuit, as he moveth in his course to animate his

children.

How glorious is Baal, how good, how provident;

doth he not produce the fruits that sustain the life

of man ? doth he not feed, and warm every living

being ?

Doth he not give light by day, and impart a portion

of his splendour to his dwelling place to illumine

the night, and mark the seasons ?

How terrible is Baal in his anger, when he sendeth

forth his messengers in fire, air, and water, and

maketh the earth to tremble. All elements are his

servants.

Hear of times marked I have the rings of our

fathers ; they have noted the rings of their times : I

will mark the rings of my days. Thou wilt mark

those of thy daysso shall signs and seasons be

perpetual.

Attend now, my Son,Our great fathers dwelt

on the left side of the sun's rising, beyond the sources

of the great waters. Of days marked whilst Baal

performed one thousand and eleven circuits in his

course.

Then did they spread themselves from the flood of

Sgeind even to the banks pf Teth-gris.

And when one thousand three hundred and four

rings were completed, then did our fathers of these

days pass to this side of Teth-gris, and moving

towards the sun's going, reach to the Affreidg-eis,

and they became lords of all the lands on this side;

and on that, they outstretched their arms over all

nations, with mercy.

And Absal, he it was who went out before the

host, from the land of the elements of which our

great fathers were formed.

And Daire was he, who conducted the children

of the land to this side Affreidg-eisand the race

of Daire were chiefs of the earth. (f)

Attend again, my Son,When twice nine hundred

rings, and thrice three rings were marked on the

banks of Affreidg-eis, a multitude from the sun's

rising, beneath the land of the first abode of our great

fathers, poured in upon the land of our fathers that

then lived, like unto a swarm of locusts, or clouds of

burning sands, yea even as a torrent of mighty waters,

that overwhelmeth all things.

And the multitudes for numbers not to be counted,

as the sands of the sea, as the stars of the heavens,

speaking with a thousand tongues diverse one from

anotherfierce and cruel, came over our fathers.

And many of the Gaal were made captivesand

many lay in death, whose state was happier than

that of his fellow.

And Ardfear, chief of the race, and all the heads

of the people who stood in the presence of the chief,

dwelling round about the tents of Ard-fear, escaped

from the edge of the sword of Eis Soir. (g)

And Ardfear floated on the bosom of Blessed

Affreidg-eis, and the waters bare up his little skiff,

till he lighted on the plain of Ard-mionu.

And all that went forth from Magh-sean-ar dwelled

in Ard-mionu, and Ardfear ruled that land as afore-

time but in person.

.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

You can find an analyses of these Chronicles of Eri in this book from 1822 (page 409 and onwards):

The Museum of foreign literature, science and art, Volume 1 - Eliakim Littell

And here a website about/based on these Chronicles:

http://annalsofancientireland.blogspot.com/2012/01/chapter-i.html

[Knul]

This is what Otharus does not tell you:

Brief van J.G. Ottema aan L.F. over de Linden d.d. 20 september 1876

WelEd Heer ! Vriendelijken dank voor de facsimile's van de paginatuur. Ik wil u dadelijk mededeelen, wat ik er uit geleerd heb, en dat is nogal belangrijk.

1^ede sijfers behooren in den tijd van omstreeks 1600. Vroeger waren sommige sijfers nog meer hoekig 2 3 8. Met den overgang van de 16e tot de 17e Eeuw zijn die ronder 2 3 8. In het laatst van de 16e Eeuw b.v. de 1e druk der Kronyk van Andreas Cornelius 1593 vindt men ook nog de schrijfwijze b.v. anno 700 ende 36. Ik geloof dus den tijd vrij zeker te kunnen bepalen.

2^e het sijfer van de laatste bladzijde 200 aend 10 (en niet, zooals men verwachten zoude 200-10) leert mij dat op het tijdstip van de pagineering dit de laatst aanwezige bladzijde was en hier de pagineering eindigde.

3^e Hieruit volgt, dat toen het laatste gedeelte van het H.S. reeds was verloren geraakt

4^e en dat het dus toen al een geruimen tijd was geleden sedert het H.S. door het slijten en breken der draden uit den omslag was gevallen, en in losse katerns en bladen daarheen lag.

5^e Van die katerns waren de zeven eerste (tot p. 168) nog gaaf, en geheel, maar van het achtste en negende de ruggen al doorgesleten, ten gevolge waarvan de los liggende bladen al spoedig gedeeltelijkverloren zijn geraakt, zoodat van het achtste katern de twee laatste bladen p. 189-192 toevallig bewaard zijn gebleven, en van het negende alleen de acht middelste bladen, p. 195-210.

6^eDe pagineering kan dus niet van Hiddo's hand zijn.* Hij pagineerde nog niet, gelijk ook alle Handschriften van dien ouden tijd zonder paginatuur waren. Als men een H.S. liet binden, dan werden de afzonderlijkke katerns ten behoeve van den binder voorzien van een volgmerk, bij voorbeeld de letters van het alfabet, zooals dat ook nog in de allereerste drukwerken uit het laatst van de 15e eeuw geschiedde, b.v. Het Friesch Landrecht, Anjamer [?]* druk 1460. Daartoe dient thans de signatuur der drukvellen.

7^e Zulk een volgmerk ontbreekt aan de katerns van het H.S. en dit bewijst, dat zij niet bestemd waren om door een binder ingenaaid te worden. Hiddo heeft ze eigenhandig ingenaaid, en wist zelf wel hoe de katerns op elkander moesten volgen, daartoe had hij geen letters of ander merkteeken nodig.

Gij hebt misschien al een dozijn afdrukken van het Voorbericht ontvangen, en gezien dat ik er nog een Noot aan het adres van B[eckering] V[inckers] heb bijgevoegd. Met zeer vriendelijke groete.

*Aangezien de cijfers van de paginering met dezelfde hand geschreven zijn als de cijfers in de tekst, kan dus ook de tekst niet van Hidde's hand zijn.

*Anjum

Edited February 22, 2012 by Knul

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDON" (statues or images) - fragment 1 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[037/26]-[038/30]: from Minno's notes about Minerva (ca. 1600 BC)

NV SKOLDE ÀJDER WÁNA THÀT HJA VRAL.ET FOLK TO HÁPE HWOPN HÉDE

VMBE VS ALGADUR TO.T.LAND UT TO DRIWANDE.

NÉAN AN STÉDE FON HJA TO BIHLÛDA GVNGON HJA ALLERWÉIKE.S.

AK TO THA HÉINDA.KRÉKA.LANDA TIL THA ALPA. UT TO KÉTHANE.

THÀT.ET THENE ALLERVRSTE DROCHTEN HÁGTH HÉDE

SIN WISA TOGHATER MIN.ERVA. TO NÔMTH NY.HEL.LÉNJA

ÉMONG THA MÀNNISKA TO SENDANE INOVERA SÉ MITH.EN ULK.

VMBE THA MÀNNISKA GODE RÉD TO JÉVANE.

ÀND THAT ALLERMANNALIK THÉR HJA HÉRA WILDE RIK ÀND LUKICH SKOLDE WERTHA.

ÀND ÉNIS BÁS SKOLDE WERTHA OVIR ALLE KÉNINGKRIK JRTHA.S

HJRA BYLDNESE STÀLDON HJA VPPA HJARA ÀLTÀRUM

JEFTHA HJA VRSELLADE.T ANDA DVMA MÀNNISKA.

HJA KÉTHON ALLERWÉIKES RÉDJÉVINGA.

THÉR HJU NIMMER JÉVEN HÉDE.

ÀND TÀLADON WONDERA.

THÉR HJU NÀ DÉN HÉDE.

THRVCH LESTA WISTON HJA.RA SELVA MASTER TO MÁKJANDE FON VSA ÉWA ÀND SETMA

ÀND THRVCH WAN KÉTHINGA WISTON HJA ALLE TO WISA ÀND TO VRBRUDA.

HJA STÀLDON ÁK FÁMNA VNDER HJARA HODE.

THA SKINBÉR VNDERE HODA FON FÀSTA VSA FORMA ÉRE.MODER.

VMBE OVER THÀT FRÁNA LJUCHT TO WÁKANE.

MEN THÀT LJUCHT HÉDE HJA SELVA VPSTOKEN.

ÀND INSTÉDE FON THA FÁMKES WIS TO MÁKJANDE.

ÀND AFTERNÉI ÉMONG THÀT FOLK TO SENDA.

THA SJAKA TO LÉVANDE.

ÀND THA BÀRN TO LÉRANDE.

MÁKADON HJA.RA DVM ÀND DIMME BI.T LJUCHT

ÀND NE MACHTON HJA NÁ BUTA NE KVMA.

ÁK WRDON HJA TO RÉDJÉVSTARE BRUKATH.

THACH THI.RÉD WAS BY SKIN UT HJARA MVLUN.

HWAND HJARA MVLA WÉRON NAVT OWERS AS THA HROPAR.

HWÉRTHRVCH THA PRESTERA HJARA GÉRTA UTKÉTHON.

- - - - -

Ottema p.55

Nu zoude ieder wanen dat zij overal het volk te hoop geroepen hadden,

om ons allen te zamen het land uit te drijven.

Neen, in plaats van haar te beschimpen gingen zij allerwegen,

ook naar het heinde Krekaland tot aan de Alpen uitroepen:

dat het den Oppersten God behaagd had

zijne verstandige [wijze] dochter Minerva, bijgenaamd Nyhellenia,

onder de menschen te zenden van over zee met eene wolk,

om de menschen goede raad te geven,

en opdat alle menschen die haar hooren wilden rijk en gelukkig zouden worden,

en eens meester zouden worden over alle koningrijken der aarde.

Zij stelden haar beeld op hunne altaren,

zij verkondigden of verkochten [het] aan de domme menschen

[zij verkondigden] allerwegen raadgevingen

die zij nimmer gegeven had,

en vertelden wonderen

die zij nooit gedaan had.

Door list wisten zij zich meester te maken van onze wetten en inzettingen

en door listen en drogredenen wisten zij alles te bewijzen en te verbreiden.

Zij stelden ook priesteressen onder hunne hoede,

die schijnbaar onder de hoede van Festa onze eerste eeremoeder (waren)

om over het heilige licht te waken,

maar dat licht hadden zij zelve ontstoken,

en in plaats van de priesteressen wijs te maken

en naderhand onder het volk te zenden

om de zieken te verplegen

en de jeugd te onderwijzen,

maakten zij ze dom en duister,

en zij mochten nimmer buiten komen.

Ook werden zij als raadgeefsters gebezigd,

maar die raad was voor den schijn uit hare monden,

want hare monden waren niet anders dan de roepers,

waardoor de priesters hunne begeerten uitspraken.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.55

one would have thought that they would have called all the people together

to drive us out of the land;

but no, in place of abusing her they went all about

from the heathenish [near] Krekaland to the Alps, proclaiming

that it had pleased the Almighty God

to send his clever [wise] daughter Min-erva, surnamed Nyhellenia,

over the sea in a cloud to give people good counsel,

and that all who listened to her should become rich and happy,

and in the end governors of all the kingdoms of the earth.

They erected statues to her on all their altars,

they announced and [or] sold [them] to the simple [dumb] people

[they announced] advice that she had never given,

and related miracles

that she had never performed.

They cunningly made themselves masters of our laws and customs,

and by craft and subtlety were able to explain and spread them around.

They appointed priestesses under their own care,

who were apparently under the protection of Festa, our first Eeremoeder [Mother of Honour],

to watch over the holy lamp;

but that lamp they lit themselves,

and instead of imbuing the priestesses with wisdom,

and then sending them

to watch the sick

and educate the young,

they made them stupid and ignorant,

and never allowed them to come out.

They were employed as advisers,

but the advice which seemed to come from them

was but the repetition of the behests of the priests.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDON" (statues or images) - fragment 2 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[050/31]-[052/22]: from the Waraburch at Aldegamude, about the arrival of the Magí (ca. 2100 BC)

100 ÀND 1 JÉR NÉI THAT ÁLD.LAND SVNKEN IS.

KÉM THÉR UT.ET ÁSTA EN FOLK WÉI.

[...]

NW WI HJAM HÀVON KÀNNA LÉRED.

SÁ WILLATH WI OVIR HJARA SÉDA SKRIWA.

ÀFTERNÉI HO.T VS MITH HJAM FORGUNGON IS.

~

THÀT FOLK NAS NAVT NE WILD

LIK FÉLO SLACHTA FINDA.S

MEN É.LIK ANDA ÉGIPTA.LANDAR.

HJA HÀVATH PRESTERA LIK THAM.

ÀND NW HJA KÀRKA HÀVE. ÁK BYLDON.

THA PRESTERA SEND THA ENGOSTA HÉRA

HJA HÉTON HJARA SELVA MÁGJARA.

HJARA ALLER OVIRSTE HÉT MAGÍ.

HI IS HÁVED.PRESTER ÀND KENING MITH ÉN.

ALLET ÔRE FOLK IS NUL IN.T SIFFER ÀND ÉLLIK

ÀND AL VNDER HJARA WELD.

THÀT FOLK NETH NAVT ÉNIS EN NÔME.

THRVCH VS SEND HJA FINNA HÉTEN.

HWAND AFSKÉN HJARA FÉRSTA ALGADUR DROV ÀND BLODICH SEND.

THACH SEND HJA THÉR ALSA FIN VP

THAT WI THÉRBI ÀFTER STÁNE.

FORTH NE SEND HJA NAVT TO BINYDANE.

HWAND HJA SEND SLÁVONA FON THA PRESTERUM

ÀND JETA FÜL ÀRGER FON HJARA MÉNINGA.

HJA MÉNATH THAT ELLA FVL KVADA GÁSTON IS.

THÉR INDA MÀNNISKA ÀND DJARA GLUPPE.

MEN FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST NÉTON HJA NAWET.

HJA HÀVATH STÉNE WÉPNE. THA MÁGJARA KÁPRA.

THA MÁGJARA TELLATH

THAT HJA THA ÀRGE GÁSTON BANNA ÀND VRBANNA MÜGON.

THÉR.VR IS.T FOLK ÔLAN IN ANGE FRÉSE

ÀND VPPERA WÉSA NIS NINMER NÉN BLÍDSKIP TO BISJAN.

~ ~ ~

THÁ HJA GOD SÉTEN WÉRON

SOCHTON THA MAGJARA ATHSKIP BI VS.

HJA BOGADON VP VSA TÁL ÀND SÉDUM.

VP VS FJA ÀND VPPA VS ÍSERE WÉPNE.

THÉR HJA GÉRN TOFORI HJARA GOLDUN ÀND SULVERE SÍRHÉDUM WANDELA WILDE.

ÀND HJARA TJOTH HILDON HJA IMMERTHE BINNA THA PÉLON.

~

MEN THAT VRSKALKTON VSA WÁKENDOM.

- - - - -

Ottema p.73

100 en 1 jaar nadat Aldland gezonken is,

kwam uit het oosten een volk weg.

[...]

Nu wij hen hebben leeren kennen,

willen wij over hunne zeden schrijven,

en daarna hoe het ons met hen vergaan is.

Het volk was niet woest,

gelijk vele geslachten van Finda;

maar het is gelijk de Egyptelanders,

zij hebben priesters, even als deze,

en in de [nu zij] kerken hebben zij ook beelden.

De priesters zijn de eenigste heeren,

zij noemen zich zelf Magyaren,

hun opperste heet Magy,

hij is hoofdpriester en koning met een;

al het andere volk is nul in ’t cijfer en gelijk,

en allen zijn onder hun geweld.

Het volk heeft niet eens een naam;

door ons worden zij Finnen genoemd;

want ofschoon hunne feesten allemaal treurig en bloedig zijn,

zijn zij daar toch zoo fijn op,

dat wij daarbij achterstaan.

Voorts zijn zij niet te benijden,

want zij zijn slaven van hunne priesters,

maar nog veel meer van hunne meeningen.

Zij meenen, dat alles vol is van booze geesten,

die in de menschen en dieren sluipen;

maar van Wraldas geest weten zij niets.

Zij hebben steenen wapenen, de Magyaren koperen.

De Magyaren verhalen,

dat zij de booze geesten kunnen bannen en verbannen,

daarover is het volk steeds in bange vrees,

en op hun gelaat is nimmer vrolijkheid te zien.

Toen zij goed gezeten waren,

zochten de Magyaren vriendschap bij ons,

zij roemden onze taal en zeden,

ons vee en onze ijzeren wapenen,

die zij gaarne voor hunne gouden en zilveren sieraden wilden ruilen,

en hun volk hielden zij altoos binnen de palen,

en dat verschalkte onze waakzaamheid.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.73

One hundred and one years after the submersion of Aldland

a people came out of the East.

[...]

Now that we have learned to know them,

we will describe their customs,

and after that how matters went between us.

They were not wild people,

like most of Finda's race;

but, like the Egyptians,

they have priests [like them]

and also statues in their [now that they have] churches [they also have statues].

The priests are the only rulers;

they call themselves Magyars,

and their headman Magy.

He is high priest and king in one.

The rest of the people are of no account,

and in subjection to them.

This people have not even a name;

but we call them Finns,

because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody,

they are so formal

that we are inferior to them in that respect.

But still they are not to be envied,

because they are slaves to their priests,

and still more to their creeds.

They believe that evil spirits abound everywhere,

and enter into men and beasts,

but of Wr-alda's spirit they know nothing.

They have weapons of stone, the Magyars of copper.

The Magyars affirm

that they can exorcise and recall the evil spirits,

and this frightens the people,

so that you never see a cheerful face.

When they were well established,

the Magyars sought our friendship,

they praised our language and customs,

our cattle and iron weapons,

which they would willingly have exchanged for their gold and silver ornaments,

and they always kept their people within their own boundaries,

and that outwitted our watchfulness.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

This is what Otharus does not tell you:

There is much, much more I'm not telling!

[Otharus]

"de sijfers behooren in den tijd van omstreeks 1600"

Translation: "the ciphars [pagenumbers] are from ca. 1600 AD"

So what is your point?

That Halbertsma, Over de Linden and Stadermann could not have made the manuscript, because the ciphars were added to it, 200 years before they were born?

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDON" (statues or images) - fragment 3 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[055/16]-[056/17]: from the Waraburch at Aldegamude, about the deification of Wodin (ca. 2000 BC)

AS WODIN NW TOBÀK KÉM

JAV THENE MÁGí HIM SIN TOGHATER TO.N WIF.

ÀFTENÉI WÀRTH.I MITH KRÚDON BIRÉKAD.

MEN THÉR WÉRON TAWER.KRÚDON MONG.

HWAND WODIN WARTH BI GRÁDUM ALSA SÉR VRMÉTEN.

THAT.I FRYA ÀND WR.ALDAS GÁST MIS.KÀNA ÀND SPOTA THVRADE.

THAWÍLA HI SIN FRYA HALS BOG TOFARA FALSKA DROCHTEN.LIKANDE BYLDUM.

SIN RIK HILDE SJVGUN JÉR

THÁ VRDWIND.ER.

THENE MÁGI SÉIDE THAT.ER EMONG HJARA GODON VPNIMETH WÉRE.

ÀND THAT HI FON THÉR OVER HJAM WELDA.

MEN VS FOLK LAKTON VMBE SIN TÁL.

THÁ WODIN EN STÚT WÉI WÉST HÉDE

KÉM THÉR TWISPALT.

WI WILDON EN ÔRA KÀNING KJASA.

MEN THAT NILDE THENE MÁGÍ NAVT NE HENGJA.

HI WÉRDE THAT ET EN RJUCHT WÉRE.

HIM THRVCH SINA DROCHTNE JÉVEN.

BUTA ÀND BIHALVA THISSA TWIST.

SA WAS THÉR JET.ÉN EMONG SIN MÁGJARA ÀND FINNA.

THÉR FRYA NER WODIN ÉRA NAVT NILDE.

MEN THI MÁGÍ DÉDE AS.T IM SINDE

HWAND SIN TOGHATER HÉDE EN SVN BI WODIN WVNEN.

ÀND NW WILDE THENE MÁGÍ THAT THISSE FON EN HÁGE KOM.OF WÉSA SKOLDE.

THAHWÍLA ALLE SÁNADE ÀND TWISTA.

KRÔNADE HI THENE KNÁP TO KÀNING

ÀND STÀLADE HIN SELS AS FOGED ÀND FORA.MOND JEFTA RÉD.JÉVAR AN.

THÉRA THÉR MÁR HILDON FON HJARA BALG AS FON THÀT RJUCHT.

THAM LÉTON HINI BIDOBBA.

MEN THA GODA BRÚDON WÉI.

- - - - -

Ottema p.79

Toen Wodin nu terug kwam,

gaf de Magy hem zijne dochter tot vrouw.

Daarop werd hij met kruiden berookt,

doch er waren tooverkruiden onder;

want Wodin werd trapsgewijze zoo zeer vermetel,

dat hij Frya en Wraldas geest durfde miskennen en bespotten,

terwijl hij zijn vrije hals boog voor de valsche gedrochtelijke [op afgoden lijkende] beelden.

Zijn rijk duurde zeven jaren,

toen verdween hij.

De Magy zeide dat hij onder hunne goden was opgenomen,

en dat hij van daar over hen heerschte,

maar ons volk lachte om zijne taal.

Toen Wodin eene poos weg geweest was,

kwam er tweespalt;

wij wilden een anderen koning kiezen,

maar dat wilde de Magy niet gedoogen.

Hij beweerde dat het een recht was,

hem door zijne afgoden gegeven.

Maar buiten en behalve deze twist,

was nog eene tusschen de Magiaren en Finnen,

die Frya noch Wodin wilden eeren,

doch de Magy deed zoo als hem goed dacht,

want zijne dochter had bij Wodin een zoon gewonnen,

en nu wilde de Magy dat deze zoon van hooge afkomst wezen zoude.

Terwijl allen keven en twisten,

kroonde hij den knaap tot koning

en stelde zich zelven tot voogd of raadgever aan.

Zij die meer hielden van hun lijf [pens], dan van het recht,

lieten hem tobben [zich bedelven],

maar de goeden trokken weg.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.79

When Wodin returned,

Magy gave him his daughter to wife.

Whereupon he was incensed with herbs;

but they were magic herbs,

and by degrees he became so audacious

that he dared to disavow and ridicule the spirits of Frya and Wr-alda,

while he bent his free head before the false and deceitful [idol-like] images.

His reign lasted seven years,

and then he disappeared.

The Magy said that he was taken up by their gods

and still reigned over us,

but our people laughed at what they said.

When Wodin had disappeared some time,

disputes arose.

We wished to choose another king,

but the Magy would not permit it.

He asserted that it was his right

given him by his idols.

But besides this dispute

there was one between the Magyars and Finns,

who would honour neither Frya nor Wodin;

but the Magy did just as he pleased,

because his daughter had a son by Wodin,

and he would have it that this son was of high descent.

While all were disputing and quarrelling,

he crowned the boy as king,

and set up himself as guardian and counsellor.

Those who cared more for themselves [their stomach] than for justice

let him work his own way [themselves be overwhelmed],

but the good men took their departure.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

THAWÍLA HI SIN FRYA HALS BOG TOFARA FALSKA DROCHTEN.LIKANDE BYLDUM

DEWIJL HIJ ZIJN VRIJE HALS BOOG TEVOREN VALSCHE GEDROCHTEN-LIJKENDE BEELDEN

While he bent his free neck in front of false, monstruous statues.

The Frisians really didn't like Catholics, lol.

[Abramelin]

HJRA BYLDNESE STÀLDON HJA VPPA HJARA ÀLTÀRUM

JEFTHA HJA VRSELLADE.T ANDA DVMA MÀNNISKA.

HARE BEELTENISSEN STELDEN ZIJ OP HARE ALTAREN

OF ZIJ VERKOCHTEN 'T AAN-DE DOMME MENSCHEN

Her images they put on their altars

or they sold it to stupid people.

+++++

EDIT:

"VRSELLADE" is a mix of Dutch and English: VERkopen + SOLD = VERSOLD. >> "VRSELLADE".

.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

HJA HÀVATH PRESTERA LIK THAM.

ÀND NW HJA KÀRKA HÀVE. ÁK BYLDON.

ZIJ HEBBEN PRIESTERS GELIJK HEN

ENDE NU ZIJ KERKEN HEBBEN. OOK BEELDEN

They have priests like them,

and now they have churches, also statues.

[Abramelin]

I know my "Dutch" translations look like crap, but I use Medieval Dutch and even Old Flemish ("dewijl").

Check the "etymologybank" site.

I only wanted to show that I can translate this OLB 'ancient Frisian', or whatever I should call it, by using Dutch and Flemish.

Alas, I wanted to post a lot more, but 'duty calls' ( = nagging ex).

[Knul]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDON" (statues or images) - fragment 3 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[055/16]-[056/17]: from the Waraburch at Aldegamude, about the deification of Wodin (ca. 2000 BC)

AS WODIN NW TOBÀK KÉM

JAV THENE MÁGí HIM SIN TOGHATER TO.N WIF.

ÀFTENÉI WÀRTH.I MITH KRÚDON BIRÉKAD.

MEN THÉR WÉRON TAWER.KRÚDON MONG.

HWAND WODIN WARTH BI GRÁDUM ALSA SÉR VRMÉTEN.

THAT.I FRYA ÀND WR.ALDAS GÁST MIS.KÀNA ÀND SPOTA THVRADE.

THAWÍLA HI SIN FRYA HALS BOG TOFARA FALSKA DROCHTEN.LIKANDE BYLDUM.

SIN RIK HILDE SJVGUN JÉR

THÁ VRDWIND.ER.

THENE MÁGI SÉIDE THAT.ER EMONG HJARA GODON VPNIMETH WÉRE.

ÀND THAT HI FON THÉR OVER HJAM WELDA.

MEN VS FOLK LAKTON VMBE SIN TÁL.

THÁ WODIN EN STÚT WÉI WÉST HÉDE

KÉM THÉR TWISPALT.

WI WILDON EN ÔRA KÀNING KJASA.

MEN THAT NILDE THENE MÁGÍ NAVT NE HENGJA.

HI WÉRDE THAT ET EN RJUCHT WÉRE.

HIM THRVCH SINA DROCHTNE JÉVEN.

BUTA ÀND BIHALVA THISSA TWIST.

SA WAS THÉR JET.ÉN EMONG SIN MÁGJARA ÀND FINNA.

THÉR FRYA NER WODIN ÉRA NAVT NILDE.

MEN THI MÁGÍ DÉDE AS.T IM SINDE

HWAND SIN TOGHATER HÉDE EN SVN BI WODIN WVNEN.

ÀND NW WILDE THENE MÁGÍ THAT THISSE FON EN HÁGE KOM.OF WÉSA SKOLDE.

THAHWÍLA ALLE SÁNADE ÀND TWISTA.

KRÔNADE HI THENE KNÁP TO KÀNING

ÀND STÀLADE HIN SELS AS FOGED ÀND FORA.MOND JEFTA RÉD.JÉVAR AN.

THÉRA THÉR MÁR HILDON FON HJARA BALG AS FON THÀT RJUCHT.

THAM LÉTON HINI BIDOBBA.

MEN THA GODA BRÚDON WÉI.

- - - - -

Ottema p.79

Toen Wodin nu terug kwam,

gaf de Magy hem zijne dochter tot vrouw.

Daarop werd hij met kruiden berookt,

doch er waren tooverkruiden onder;

want Wodin werd trapsgewijze zoo zeer vermetel,

dat hij Frya en Wraldas geest durfde miskennen en bespotten,

terwijl hij zijn vrije hals boog voor de valsche gedrochtelijke [op afgoden lijkende] beelden.

Zijn rijk duurde zeven jaren,

toen verdween hij.

De Magy zeide dat hij onder hunne goden was opgenomen,

en dat hij van daar over hen heerschte,

maar ons volk lachte om zijne taal.

Toen Wodin eene poos weg geweest was,

kwam er tweespalt;

wij wilden een anderen koning kiezen,

maar dat wilde de Magy niet gedoogen.

Hij beweerde dat het een recht was,

hem door zijne afgoden gegeven.

Maar buiten en behalve deze twist,

was nog eene tusschen de Magiaren en Finnen,

die Frya noch Wodin wilden eeren,

doch de Magy deed zoo als hem goed dacht,

want zijne dochter had bij Wodin een zoon gewonnen,

en nu wilde de Magy dat deze zoon van hooge afkomst wezen zoude.

Terwijl allen keven en twisten,

kroonde hij den knaap tot koning

en stelde zich zelven tot voogd of raadgever aan.

Zij die meer hielden van hun lijf [pens], dan van het recht,

lieten hem tobben [zich bedelven],

maar de goeden trokken weg.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.79

When Wodin returned,

Magy gave him his daughter to wife.

Whereupon he was incensed with herbs;

but they were magic herbs,

and by degrees he became so audacious

that he dared to disavow and ridicule the spirits of Frya and Wr-alda,

while he bent his free head before the false and deceitful [idol-like] images.

His reign lasted seven years,

and then he disappeared.

The Magy said that he was taken up by their gods

and still reigned over us,

but our people laughed at what they said.

When Wodin had disappeared some time,

disputes arose.

We wished to choose another king,

but the Magy would not permit it.

He asserted that it was his right

given him by his idols.

But besides this dispute

there was one between the Magyars and Finns,

who would honour neither Frya nor Wodin;

but the Magy did just as he pleased,

because his daughter had a son by Wodin,

and he would have it that this son was of high descent.

While all were disputing and quarrelling,

he crowned the boy as king,

and set up himself as guardian and counsellor.

Those who cared more for themselves [their stomach] than for justice

let him work his own way [themselves be overwhelmed],

but the good men took their departure.

FOGED ÀND FORA.MOND = voogd en voormond (juridical term).

[Knul]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDON" (statues or images) - fragment 3 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[055/16]-[056/17]: from the Waraburch at Aldegamude, about the deification of Wodin (ca. 2000 BC)

AS WODIN NW TOBÀK KÉM

JAV THENE MÁGí HIM SIN TOGHATER TO.N WIF.

ÀFTENÉI WÀRTH.I MITH KRÚDON BIRÉKAD.

MEN THÉR WÉRON TAWER.KRÚDON MONG.

HWAND WODIN WARTH BI GRÁDUM ALSA SÉR VRMÉTEN.

THAT.I FRYA ÀND WR.ALDAS GÁST MIS.KÀNA ÀND SPOTA THVRADE.

THAWÍLA HI SIN FRYA HALS BOG TOFARA FALSKA DROCHTEN.LIKANDE BYLDUM.

SIN RIK HILDE SJVGUN JÉR

THÁ VRDWIND.ER.

THENE MÁGI SÉIDE THAT.ER EMONG HJARA GODON VPNIMETH WÉRE.

ÀND THAT HI FON THÉR OVER HJAM WELDA.

MEN VS FOLK LAKTON VMBE SIN TÁL.

THÁ WODIN EN STÚT WÉI WÉST HÉDE

KÉM THÉR TWISPALT.

WI WILDON EN ÔRA KÀNING KJASA.

MEN THAT NILDE THENE MÁGÍ NAVT NE HENGJA.

HI WÉRDE THAT ET EN RJUCHT WÉRE.

HIM THRVCH SINA DROCHTNE JÉVEN.

BUTA ÀND BIHALVA THISSA TWIST.

SA WAS THÉR JET.ÉN EMONG SIN MÁGJARA ÀND FINNA.

THÉR FRYA NER WODIN ÉRA NAVT NILDE.

MEN THI MÁGÍ DÉDE AS.T IM SINDE

HWAND SIN TOGHATER HÉDE EN SVN BI WODIN WVNEN.

ÀND NW WILDE THENE MÁGÍ THAT THISSE FON EN HÁGE KOM.OF WÉSA SKOLDE.

THAHWÍLA ALLE SÁNADE ÀND TWISTA.

KRÔNADE HI THENE KNÁP TO KÀNING

ÀND STÀLADE HIN SELS AS FOGED ÀND FORA.MOND JEFTA RÉD.JÉVAR AN.

THÉRA THÉR MÁR HILDON FON HJARA BALG AS FON THÀT RJUCHT.

THAM LÉTON HINI BIDOBBA.

MEN THA GODA BRÚDON WÉI.

- - - - -

Ottema p.79

Toen Wodin nu terug kwam,

gaf de Magy hem zijne dochter tot vrouw.

Daarop werd hij met kruiden berookt,

doch er waren tooverkruiden onder;

want Wodin werd trapsgewijze zoo zeer vermetel,

dat hij Frya en Wraldas geest durfde miskennen en bespotten,

terwijl hij zijn vrije hals boog voor de valsche gedrochtelijke [op afgoden lijkende] beelden.

Zijn rijk duurde zeven jaren,

toen verdween hij.

De Magy zeide dat hij onder hunne goden was opgenomen,

en dat hij van daar over hen heerschte,

maar ons volk lachte om zijne taal.

Toen Wodin eene poos weg geweest was,

kwam er tweespalt;

wij wilden een anderen koning kiezen,

maar dat wilde de Magy niet gedoogen.

Hij beweerde dat het een recht was,

hem door zijne afgoden gegeven.

Maar buiten en behalve deze twist,

was nog eene tusschen de Magiaren en Finnen,

die Frya noch Wodin wilden eeren,

doch de Magy deed zoo als hem goed dacht,

want zijne dochter had bij Wodin een zoon gewonnen,

en nu wilde de Magy dat deze zoon van hooge afkomst wezen zoude.

Terwijl allen keven en twisten,

kroonde hij den knaap tot koning

en stelde zich zelven tot voogd of raadgever aan.

Zij die meer hielden van hun lijf [pens], dan van het recht,

lieten hem tobben [zich bedelven],

maar de goeden trokken weg.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.79

When Wodin returned,

Magy gave him his daughter to wife.

Whereupon he was incensed with herbs;

but they were magic herbs,

and by degrees he became so audacious

that he dared to disavow and ridicule the spirits of Frya and Wr-alda,

while he bent his free head before the false and deceitful [idol-like] images.

His reign lasted seven years,

and then he disappeared.

The Magy said that he was taken up by their gods

and still reigned over us,

but our people laughed at what they said.

When Wodin had disappeared some time,

disputes arose.

We wished to choose another king,

but the Magy would not permit it.

He asserted that it was his right

given him by his idols.

But besides this dispute

there was one between the Magyars and Finns,

who would honour neither Frya nor Wodin;

but the Magy did just as he pleased,

because his daughter had a son by Wodin,

and he would have it that this son was of high descent.

While all were disputing and quarrelling,

he crowned the boy as king,

and set up himself as guardian and counsellor.

Those who cared more for themselves [their stomach] than for justice

let him work his own way [themselves be overwhelmed],

but the good men took their departure.

suggestions:

BALG = gebalg cfr. blaasbalg express. een grote keel opzetten, snoeven.

BRUDON = gaven er de brui aan.

BIDOBBA =betijen ipv bedelven

BI GRADUM = stap voor stap

KOM OF - komaf (letterlijk)

LAKTON moet zijn LAKTE (enkelvoud).

AFTENEI moet zijn AFTERNEI

THAWILA moet zijn THAHWILA

FOGED AEND FORA-MUND - voogd en voormond

BIREKATH - bedwelmd (rook - walm)

HIN SELS moet zijn: HIM SELS

Edited February 22, 2012 by Knul

[Abramelin]

Discussion is about this: you say this, and someone reponds.

But you just pour out what is bothering you, and then you simply hope people here will understand what you posted about.... in DUTCH.

Menno, Dutch is NOT a 'lingua franca', ok?

Man, jesus...

If you think you need help, ASK.

I am quite sure even an Otharus will help you if you ask him for a translation, and I won't mind either.

But no one here loves that job, so no one will 'volunteer'.

.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Abramelin