advanced aliens or ancient humans?

[nopeda]

We stopped building pyramids. As civilization advanced, we realized that employing tens of thousands of people to build gigantic tombs out of piles of rocks were a waste of national resources. War and trade became the new use for tens of thousands of people. We could build stuff in the "same way" now, but it would cost billions of dollars to employ thousands of people.

What Leedskalnin did suggests that tens of thousands of people would not have been necessary, so that explanation true though it appears to be still does nothing to solve the overall mystery or support the possibility that humans had no help from more advanced beings.

[scowl]

Please provide some example(s) of how to support your claim.

Please read my long long long thread on the original "Chariots of the Gods". This book (and so-called documentary based on it) established the technique of using half-truths, ignorance, misinformation, unqualified sources, and outright lies to convince millions of people that we had been visited by "ancient astronauts". By the time the whole thing was proved to be a fraud, the author had made millions of dollars.

When a television show tells you something amazing, just look it up on Wikipedia or other places on the Internet. Most often you'll quickly find the claim is utterly groundless. They assume people are too lazy or stupid to find out the truth by themselves.

[scowl]

What Leedskalnin did suggests that tens of thousands of people would not have been necessary, so that explanation true though it appears to be still does nothing to solve the overall mystery or support the possibility that humans had no help from more advanced beings.

The books I cited above answer all questions and completely eliminate the idea that advanced astrobeings assisted in the construction the pyramids. There is no mystery. People built them.

[nopeda]

You won't go out of your way to find evidence that might contradict what you saw on a television show you liked. Why are you here?

In case you hadn't noticed I'm asking for evidence that ancient humans could have built the structures that it seems are beyond the abilities humans would have had at the time they were built. Also in case you hadn't noticed, no one has provided evidence that they could have yet. People have insisted it exists and suggested I go looking for it, but as yet no one has been able to provide it. I learned years ago not to waste time looking for something to support an opposing position, when no one on the opposing side is able to provide any of that same evidence to support themselves even when they're asked to. It's like when I was a kid another kid told me he could fly over the house so I challenged him to do it, but he just didn't "want to". So far it's the same thing here...I'm told evidence exists but as yet no one "wants to" present it. If it does exist, hopefully somebody will eventually present it. If it does not exist, hopefully I'll stop considering the possibility that it does exist evetually at some point since no one is able to present it. How long to keep considering the possibility with no evidence is the big question for me at this point.

[nopeda]

the whole thing was proved to be a fraud

Please provide some example(s) of how to support your claim.

[nopeda]

What AA belives

I'm being a bit lazy and redirecting you to a previous post of mine on this.

That's SOME of the things that show claims is real. Add also that vikings could fly and that.

The most likely thing imo is Leedskalnin's claim that magnetism is the key, though if it requires electromagnets then that again puts it out of the abilities of ancient humans. So far we still have no evidence ancient humans could have done some of those things on their own. Whether or not advanced beings took vikings for rides in air vehicles is not significant to this aspect imo, other than that if they did it's more evidence that they were in a position to help move big rocks around too.

[nopeda]

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Edited March 13, 2012 by nopeda

[nopeda]

The books I cited . . . completely eliminate the idea that advanced astrobeings assisted in the construction the pyramids.

Please provide some example(s) of how to support your claim.

[Mallaliak]

The most likely thing imo is Leedskalnin's claim that magnetism is the key, though if it requires electromagnets then that again puts it out of the abilities of ancient humans. So far we still have no evidence ancient humans could have done some of those things on their own. Whether or not advanced beings took vikings for rides in air vehicles is not significant to this aspect imo, other than that if they did it's more evidence that they were in a position to help move big rocks around too.

It was more to give you a general idea of what the "Ancient Aliens" show actually claims, before you start to listen to their claims. But if you're still thinking we would need more advanced means to construct things, I will share some basic wikipedia links here.

Bronze Horseman - The Thunderstone which is part of it, is quite a feat. Nothing extremly complicated about it, just sheer dedication and manpower.

Add to that, this list and we have a nice list of big, heavy objects mostly moved by simplest means. So no, these ancient constructs were not beyond the abilities of man at the time. Certainly it's beyond the comprehension for some that it's possible to construct something such as the great pyramid of Giza with simple tools, but it's not that mysterious if you look at various suggestions of construction and then start to compare it to other monuments of ancient cultures or modern ones.

[DONTEATUS]

It just takes a bit of intelligent`s to See that the Ancients did build the Pryamids Its all in a few years hard work !

They didnt have afterall T.V. and the Internet to look at for hours & Hours !

[Arbitran]

To refer to statements made by the eminent Carl Sagan on the matter: Mathematically speaking, extraterrestrial intelligences should have made their way around the galaxy by now; Earth should have been contacted or colonized by now. Also, ancient accounts of gods from the sky and intelligent non-human races, coupled with anomalous construction which the ancient people attributed to these beings, can be taken as evidence that they HAVE been here. Strike up a conversation with me if you wish to learn more. Namaste.

[aquatus1]

Other than Ed Leedskalnin who else has provided proof by example that they could move giant rocks without the use of heavy machinery?

Well, I just finished an interesting conversation about Easter Island, So off the top of my head I can say Thor Heyerdahl, Charles Love, and Jo Anne von Tillberg. There are plenty more out there. How many did you need?

Since you have apparently been at this for a while, do you have a bunch of links to YouTube or anyplace where people are demonstrating how to do it?

Nope.

Have you noticed how many times you have asked for examples, and how no one has given you examples yet? There is a reason for that. Through your posts, you have given the distinct impression that you are more willing to believe than you are to learn. Nobody is interested in arguing a topic this basic, particularly when the believer is so adamantly holding a position that, itself, is logically untenable. If you can convince people that you are indeed genuinely curious, you will get a far better response. Right now, people aren't feeling that from you.

If not, why not? That would probably settle it for most people who are in question, so if you know of no examples since it's not that hard for you, maybe you could even become famous for proving it just because no one else has bothered to take the time.

Nopeda...I don't think you really grasp how much of a non-issue this is. An engineer (and even some more experienced architects and movers) just glances at these things and determine rather quickly how they would go about doing things, and heavy machinery is generally the last option if there is a cheaper way and economically safer way to do it. It isn't something they have to wonder about, or question the existence of. It's really nothing more than business as usual in their field.

The amount of people who give this topic any significant amount of priority are minimal. All of them tend to be people who are not in any sort of mechanical or engineering field. There is actually a reason why no one has bothered to take the time, and that is because it really isn't worth it. It is similar to asking someone to create a website to seriously disprove that Santa Claus exists. The amount of effort believers put into continuing to believe a sacred mystery tends to far exceed the minimal effort needed to understand the actual practical aspects.

Probably after you do it lots of other people will start doing it too.

Ahh, no. If there is anything that is a certainty in this world, it is that most people will choose to worship their sacred mysteries than to move forward in their knowledge. It is far, far, more efficient to simply work with those who are willing to learn than to try to convince others that you are correct.

You don't even have to quarry your own stone. Just go move some huge concrete structures to prove your point, and get the local news to come video you doing it.

Landscapers to it on a fairly regular basis. My mother had a 5-ton stone put into place by two guys with a sled. There's a guy who regularly flips, swings, and balances massive blocks (I'm sure the video will be posted sooner or later, if it hasn't already), and even he barely rates a Youtube link.

If you do it right you probably could eventually get a regular show, doing it one way for one episode, and one of the other ways in the next, and another in the next... You could milk that thing, getting famous people to stand on the huge structures as you move them...if you think it's safe, and move cars, then trucks, then trains....

It just isn't that impressive once you see how simple it is.

It seems that some of the ancient people said they were helped by the gods/star people, but I don't know any particular examples.

It seems to me that you have very low standards for construction for a civilization that conquered space travel.

They said those beings came around though. You don't believe they lied, but you don't believe they told the truth either. So what do you think they did do when they told us about beings coming to Earth and leaving again, and about how they did it? Do you think it's possible they described something that could easily have been beings from off planet coming and going but it was really something else, and if so, what?

No, I don't think they were describing anything they actually saw (I won't even go into the nonsense about something "easily" being extraterrestrial; as I aid, your sense of proportion is kind off skewed). I believe that they, like humans have throughout time, were simply victims of their own psyche, in much the same way that it continues to happen today.

[psyche101]

The most likely thing imo is Leedskalnin's claim that magnetism is the key, though if it requires electromagnets then that again puts it out of the abilities of ancient humans. So far we still have no evidence ancient humans could have done some of those things on their own. Whether or not advanced beings took vikings for rides in air vehicles is not significant to this aspect imo, other than that if they did it's more evidence that they were in a position to help move big rocks around too.

When questioned about how he moved the blocks of coral, Ed would only reply that he understood the laws of weight and leverage well. As believers often say, one only requires one example for proof.

[itsnotoutthere]

Please provide some example(s) of how to support your claim.

http://debunker.com/texts/vondanik.html

[Myles]

Well, I just finished an interesting conversation about Easter Island, So off the top of my head I can say Thor Heyerdahl, Charles Love, and Jo Anne von Tillberg. There are plenty more out there. How many did you need?

Nope.

Have you noticed how many times you have asked for examples, and how no one has given you examples yet? There is a reason for that. Through your posts, you have given the distinct impression that you are more willing to believe than you are to learn. Nobody is interested in arguing a topic this basic, particularly when the believer is so adamantly holding a position that, itself, is logically untenable. If you can convince people that you are indeed genuinely curious, you will get a far better response. Right now, people aren't feeling that from you.

Nopeda...I don't think you really grasp how much of a non-issue this is. An engineer (and even some more experienced architects and movers) just glances at these things and determine rather quickly how they would go about doing things, and heavy machinery is generally the last option if there is a cheaper way and economically safer way to do it. It isn't something they have to wonder about, or question the existence of. It's really nothing more than business as usual in their field.

The amount of people who give this topic any significant amount of priority are minimal. All of them tend to be people who are not in any sort of mechanical or engineering field. There is actually a reason why no one has bothered to take the time, and that is because it really isn't worth it. It is similar to asking someone to create a website to seriously disprove that Santa Claus exists. The amount of effort believers put into continuing to believe a sacred mystery tends to far exceed the minimal effort needed to understand the actual practical aspects.

Ahh, no. If there is anything that is a certainty in this world, it is that most people will choose to worship their sacred mysteries than to move forward in their knowledge. It is far, far, more efficient to simply work with those who are willing to learn than to try to convince others that you are correct.

Landscapers to it on a fairly regular basis. My mother had a 5-ton stone put into place by two guys with a sled. There's a guy who regularly flips, swings, and balances massive blocks (I'm sure the video will be posted sooner or later, if it hasn't already), and even he barely rates a Youtube link.

It just isn't that impressive once you see how simple it is.

It seems to me that you have very low standards for construction for a civilization that conquered space travel.

No, I don't think they were describing anything they actually saw (I won't even go into the nonsense about something "easily" being extraterrestrial; as I aid, your sense of proportion is kind off skewed). I believe that they, like humans have throughout time, were simply victims of their own psyche, in much the same way that it continues to happen today.

Awesome post!!!

[DONTEATUS]

Yes Indeed "aquatus" seems to put the wham in da Dam !It is quite amazing that people cant understand that man is really a clever creature.

This maybe why we are all looking at this on some of our brain power products right now.

And Still If all this intervention from beound the Stars built these things on earth ,there would be relics left that Boom-fuzzle the modern mind to this day.

So Lets give Mankind some credit where credit is due !

Now as for our behavior towards our Fellow creatures us included Were purty Pityful ! mostly !

[JayMark]

What amazes me concerning the great pyramid for instance is not only the way they could have done it but the precision of it. I've seen a while ago a (pretty deep) analysis that have been done on it's geometry, measurments etc. There were so much amazing coincidences that it makes you wonder.

[DONTEATUS]

Look at what we make today.Its quite amazing !

[nopeda]

Have you noticed how many times you have asked for examples, and how no one has given you examples yet? There is a reason for that. Through your posts, you have given the distinct impression that you are more willing to believe than you are to learn. Nobody is interested in arguing a topic this basic, particularly when the believer is so adamantly holding a position that, itself, is logically untenable.

. . .

The amount of people who give this topic any significant amount of priority are minimal. All of them tend to be people who are not in any sort of mechanical or engineering field. There is actually a reason why no one has bothered to take the time, and that is because it really isn't worth it.

Earlier you acted like you had examples. So far the only example I'm aware of is Leedskalnin, and I am the person who brought it up, so it's unfair to me to say I don't learn. I still consider that there may be other examples, but there also very well may not be. You have suggested there are many, and also told me "no one has bothered to take the time, and that is because it really isn't worth it." Please explain how I could believe both.

Also. I strongly disbelieved that xts were coming around here for the great majority of my life because of my ignorance and also because I greatly overestimated humans. I have learned that there isn't just a little bit of evidence that they've been here, but there is litterally millions or billions of tons of evidence that they have been here. I still consider the possibility that they have not been, but now consider it to be more likely that they have. I certainly believe it is much much!!! more likely that there are civilizations of beings in the universe who have interstellar space travel and projects going on in different star systems as well as all the main stream areas of heavily populated space. I have confidence such things are going on and have been for millions or billions of years, or possibly longer. So from that pov the idea that Earth has not been "discovered" by them seems absurd. How much influence they have is all that's really in question from my current position, and from here it looks like we're in sort of a park or refuge, and so far most of the xts have been like UNICEF or something, but that could change.

No, I don't think they were describing anything they actually saw (I won't even go into the nonsense about something "easily" being extraterrestrial; as I aid, your sense of proportion is kind off skewed). I believe that they, like humans have throughout time, were simply victims of their own psyche, in much the same way that it continues to happen today.

Consider the guy doing the carving, into a sacred monument in front of people who would cut off his head or whatever if he didn't do a nice pretty job of it. That being the case, he's not going to carve something the king won't agree with, and the king isn't going to allow something that will make him look like a deranged idiot to all the other kings in the area. That means that all of THOSE kings (and emperors etc...) who had inscriptions of xts put on their sacred monuments felt that everyone else would consider it to be good and useful information regarding things that did take place.

I'm curious what you think they might have mistaken for beings coming and going from the sky, and being their kings for years, and helping them do things, etc... Thousands of people? That's right. Not thousand. Millions. All believing it enough that it was commonly written on the most sacred of ancient works. Come on dude. It's more reliable than the evening news imo, and if you think not then why not?

[nopeda]

To refer to statements made by the eminent Carl Sagan on the matter: Mathematically speaking, extraterrestrial intelligences should have made their way around the galaxy by now; Earth should have been contacted or colonized by now.

It appears we have been contacted numerous times and some beings who colonise Earth (humans) have been influenced to be significantly different than any other life forms on this particular planet. If the xts have interbred with us also to whatever extent that should also count as influence on colonization, should it not?

Also, ancient accounts of gods from the sky and intelligent non-human races, coupled with anomalous construction which the ancient people attributed to these beings, can be taken as evidence that they HAVE been here. Strike up a conversation with me if you wish to learn more. Namaste.

Yes. I'm interested in examples of people saying the xts helped them, and whatever else you'd like to share.

[nopeda]

We developed concrete. Lime cement allowed Romans to quickly pour tons of concrete to build massive structures in forms without lifting a heavy stone. While the Greeks took ages to form massive columns out of solid marble, the Romans just glued thin marbles tiles to their lime concrete forms. This is the building technique we still use today.

Got thinking about that aspect this morning and it's really no argument since those people undoubtedly knew how to do things with smaller rocks and other building materials. For some reason the giant structures were built also. Thinking on...if things are as they appear we could very well be in a controlled environment and xts helped early humans to reach a certain level, then that part was done. If that's how it went they would be like rangers or whatever taking care of the project, and in fact they were much like the Corp of Engineers who build super strong structures that look like they will last for centuries in parks in the US. Very similar idea, and quite possibly done as a signal to future generations that they have been here and are likely to return. Then there's the part where they told people they're going to return...

[DONTEATUS]

Well IF they return Get there bussiness card this time so we can order up some NEw Flying Saucers !

[scowl]

What amazes me concerning the great pyramid for instance is not only the way they could have done it but the precision of it. I've seen a while ago a (pretty deep) analysis that have been done on it's geometry, measurments etc. There were so much amazing coincidences that it makes you wonder.

And all these are explained in several books on how they were constructed. These "amazing coincidences" were not coincidences at all but were planned in their construction. They were perfectly able to measure and align with great precision using crude tools. After all, they had plenty of practice i building pyramids. The early pyramids they messed up proved to them how important precision was.

If you're referring to the numerology that supposedly ties them to astronomical constants, you'll find you can do that trick with any structure.

[scowl]

Got thinking about that aspect this morning and it's really no argument since those people undoubtedly knew how to do things with smaller rocks and other building materials. For some reason the giant structures were built also.

They found that that smaller stones were far less stable and more easily plundered. Build a structure with thousands of less stable stones and you have a less stable structure. This problem of using smaller stones en mass wasn't solved until lime cement was invented (although some structures in Iraq may have used tar to glue stones together). The Pyramid of Djedefre used smaller blocks and is mostly destroyed now through natural forces and possibly by the plundering of the stones by the Roman Empire for their own construction.

Also when you have thousands of people cutting and hauling stones, it's most efficient to have them cut and haul the largest stones possible. Cutting and dressing the blocks took much longer than hauling them and required workers with more talent.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

When questioned about how he moved the blocks of coral, Ed would only reply that he understood the laws of weight and leverage well. As believers often say, one only requires one example for proof.

not so sure about that, psyche101.

I believe on Ancient Aliens, they reported that Ed was also to have said that he had figured out the secret of the ancient Egyptians.

If not Ancient Aliens, then on some other documentary because Ed has been the subject of discussion on several shows.

quite a guy, actually.