which the most powerful empire in History in

[Myles]

Mughal empire, Austria Hungarian empire...If you want and Roman empire gave more then took.

I disagree. In the end, maybe, but not while the takeover was happening.

[The_Spartan]

Though the Swedish Empire did not go the larger extent of conquering most of the known world at their height, i really admire Gustavus Adolphus or Gustav the Great.

he made it possible for the other nations to properly utilize miltiary resources in a war. He is known as the Father of Modern Warfare.

After i read about Gustav in the Alternative History Series 1632 by Eric Flint and David Weber (I think the books in the series are available for free download at Baen Books), i dug deep and read more about him.

The Battle of Breitenfeld is full of Strategy, tactics, Logistics. Never before had these been used to such an extent. I wish they made a movie on him.

In the books, especially in the 1st one 1632, there are times when he shouts "I am Vasa" and get into the thick of the Battle himself..

Edited March 14, 2012 by The_Spartan

[Mr Right Wing]

melo, stop hijacking this thread.

great you have opinons. good for you. so much for posting my idea of greatest empire, you will probably be the only one watching this thread by now.....but here goes anyway. the greatest empire is the US. not because i live here, but because the US has changed the world in so many ways. think technology. internet is so much more important than the printing press or paper though they are in the family of tech. why has english become the must-speak language? the language of business? in rome's time people spoke greek or latin and that was just that side of the world. who does the world look to for aid? the US. despite many thinking that china owns the US it is completely backwards. eventually the debtor ends up owning the bank, and besides, the US MADE china. you know WHY????? because there is only so much room for growth inside the US in terms of business. we had to develop other economies in order to put a Kentucky fried chicken, Mcdonalds, Pizza hut on every corner, coca cola, Computers, TVs, cars in everyone's dwelling. who sells the most cars in china? western countries such as VW and GM. see the thing is, we know the chinese people are up and coming consumers who WILL desire foreign goods and cowboy movies, whos goods do the pine for? US goods. think apple and buick cars. the richer they get, the richer we will get.

The US is the most powerful country at the moment but its far from being a great nation.

The British Empire is why English is the most spoken language, you ignore our role in the internet, we invented televisions and computers, the Italians invented pizza and Ford learnt how to mass produce cars but he didnt invent them.

The US has only been powerful for 60-70 years and hasnt redefined civilization like the British, Romans, Greeks, Spanish, Persians and others have. You'll need to stay top for a few centuries to do that but you've only got another 10 years left at most.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Though the Swedish Empire did not go the larger extent of conquering most of the known world at their height, i really admire Gustavus Adolphus or Gustav the Great.

he made it possible for the other nations to properly utilize miltiary resources in a war. He is known as the Father of Modern Warfare.

After i read about Gustav in the Alternative History Series 1632 by Eric Flint and David Weber (I think the books in the series are available for free download at Baen Books), i dug deep and read more about him.

The Battle of Breitenfeld is full of Strategy, tactics, Logistics. Never before had these been used to such an extent. I wish they made a movie on him.

In the books, especially in the 1st one 1632, there are times when he shouts "I am Vasa" and get into the thick of the Battle himself..

Yeah Im aware of Gustav and Thirty Years War,but HRE killed him. Imo HRE was better empire. But Gustav is consider to be father of modern warfare.

Sweedes fought with Dutch ,Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth (Great empire btw- They defend Europe from Ottomans), Russians, Habsurgs, Danish...

Later Peter the Great lead alliance against Swedish empire and Sweedes loose.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Melo

[Big Bad Voodoo]

The Mongol Empire didn't survive its founder's death, meaning it was far from the most powerful empire.

What are you talking about?

While it was vast it didn't have the staying power of the Roman or British Empires. The world would be a very different place if the British Empire hadn't got off the ground, the most widely spoken language would likely be French or Spanish and the United States as we know it would not exist.

Read this first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_the_Roman_Empire#Language

In terms of cultural impact no one comes close to the British Empire.

Can you elaborate that please?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Or this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages

and this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese

and finally

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

Edited March 14, 2012 by Melo

[The_Spartan]

For me

1st place to the Roman Empire

2nd place to the Mongol Empire

3rd Place to British Empire

4th Place to the Han Dynasty/Empire.

[Abramelin]

Another candidate?

The Inca Empire measured more than 4,000 km from end to end. Superimposed on a map of modern South America, it would begin on Colombia's southern frontier, stretch southward along the coast and highlands of Ecuador and Peru, sprawl across highland Bolivia into northwestern Argentina, and reach down into central Chile to just below Santiago. This vast territory was probably the largest ever formed anywhere based on a “Bronze Age” level of technology.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1398&page=2

[Myles]

The US is the most powerful country at the moment but its far from being a great nation.

The British Empire is why English is the most spoken language, you ignore our role in the internet, we invented televisions and computers, the Italians invented pizza and Ford learnt how to mass produce cars but he didnt invent them.

The US has only been powerful for 60-70 years and hasnt redefined civilization like the British, Romans, Greeks, Spanish, Persians and others have. You'll need to stay top for a few centuries to do that but you've only got another 10 years left at most.

While I don't agree with the US being the most impressive empire, I think you underestimate its contributions. The US has easily invented the most used items in the world. Much of it is because of the size and population of the country. If you have 10 guys working on something, there is a better chance of them solving a problem than if you have 1 person working on it. Leading the technology of most space travel and advancements cannot be over-looked either. Oh and you had the US only being powerful for the last 60-70 years (that's 1952). Take a history class. It was many years before that when people from other countries were giving up everything for a chance at being a US citizen.

[Myles]

Another candidate?

The Inca Empire measured more than 4,000 km from end to end. Superimposed on a map of modern South America, it would begin on Colombia's southern frontier, stretch southward along the coast and highlands of Ecuador and Peru, sprawl across highland Bolivia into northwestern Argentina, and reach down into central Chile to just below Santiago. This vast territory was probably the largest ever formed anywhere based on a “Bronze Age” level of technology.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1398&page=2

Excellent choice.

But how much evidence is there of other cultures or "empires" being taken over? Not that other cultures need to beh taken in order to be calles an empire.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

4th Place to the Han Dynasty/Empire.

Why people consider that Han dynasty is in fact Han empire.

Its China empire for me. I never understand that. I talked with several historians.

No one have same answer. For me there is no Song empire. Tang empire. Ming empire. Qing empire.

Its China.

Why dont we called British empire Victoria dynasty, Roman empire Augustus dynasty, Roman empire Hadrian dynasty, Mongol empire Temujin dynasty....

Cina existed from Qin to Qing with 22 dynasties in a raw.

Whats difference between Ming and Song. Only in dynasty name. People, religion, territory,customs, history, traditions is same. Everything that same-same empire.

So far I only found few historian that think same as I. One is Ferdinand Braudel. When you ask living historians there is different opinions.

Few of them say that when historians mentioned dynasties they mentioned in the term that we already know about what period of CHINA we taliking about.

But most of them in the end agree okay it is China all the time. Maybe some say okay Qing were not Han they were Manchu or Yuan dynasty was Mongol dynasty but that still is very debatefull and most of them will again agree that we are talking about China.

From 221 BC to 1911 AD. Imagine.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Melo

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Then in my list of top 10 you will find Han empire, Tang empire ( for sure) , Song empire, Ming empire....Then at least of top ten must be four Chinese. During Tang dyansty their capital wa largest city in the world. One of my fav statue Giant Budha was built. During Han paper was invented , seismeter and so on. During three kingdoms Zhuge Liang . During Song compass was invented. Su Song and Shen Kuo lived.Movable type printing by Bi Sheng. Ming and Zheng He. ...

Edited March 14, 2012 by Melo

[liteness]

The Americans have never won an external war without the help of Britain.

As any British officer will tell you they simply dont have a clue. They think its all about technology and having the biggest weapons but as vietnam and Afganistan show you it isnt.

When they started torturing Iraqi POWs I thought they'd realised what it was all about but no. Britain, the Romans and Mongols were quite ruthless if you read up on what they were like. The US doesnt have the stomach for that kind of conflict.

I'd have to agree in a way.

Though, the British Empire is still around, and still strong. They're just more sneaky.

Also, I'd like to state the British Empire, the Queen and all of their following elites(including the USA tool of the B Empire) are evil b******* against humanity. And though credit is due for their obviously cunning and stunning feat, I still say they have to go, now. Or humanity is done.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Another candidate?

The Inca Empire measured more than 4,000 km from end to end. Superimposed on a map of modern South America, it would begin on Colombia's southern frontier, stretch southward along the coast and highlands of Ecuador and Peru, sprawl across highland Bolivia into northwestern Argentina, and reach down into central Chile to just below Santiago. This vast territory was probably the largest ever formed anywhere based on a “Bronze Age” level of technology.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1398&page=2

My candidates chronologicaly would be :

Old kingdom of Egypt-Khufu Imhotep Djoser...

New kingdom of Egypt

Lydia- Just because of Miletus and their scientific thoughts.

Assyrian empire-Ashurbanipal, Nineveh library...and because they ruled them all

Neo-Babylonian Empire Nabopolassar,Nabuchadnezzar

Chartage and Hannibal

-The Achaemenid Empire -Cyrus,Darius, Xerxes

Gupta-Kalidasa "Shakespeare of India" ,plays and poetry, Aryabhata ,Varahamihira

Frankish empire -Charlemagne,Charles the Hammer ,Battle of Poitiers vs Umayyad Caliphate, Pepin the short,(they were great)

Pala empire-something about them is romantic. Pala=protector

Khmer empire-Angkor Wat

The Ayyubids- Saladin

Delhi Sultanate -Razia Sultana

Portuguese Viceroyalty of India-Vasco da Gama

Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth -Jan III Sobieski

The Maratha Empire

The Russian Empire -Peter and Mikhail Kutuzov, the man who dont need introduction.

Austro-Hungarian Empire

German Empire -Otto von Bismarck and one thing this is from wiki: During its 47 years of existence, the German Empire operated as an industrial, technological and scientific giant, receiving more Nobel Prizes in science than Britain, France, Russia and the United States combined.

But they all are not into top 5/6 no matter what.

And ofcourse Shogunate.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Melo

[Abramelin]

Not 'promoting' the achievements of the Incas, but what you posted is peanuts compared to what the Incas achieved in just a couple of centuries.

A goddamn empire stretching out for 4000 kilometers.

And they are just now discovering how much their empire stretched out into Amazonian/jungle territory.

But they won't find those great megalithic Incan structures in the Amazon basin because they could only use clay.

I think we are in for a great surprize.

.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Abramelin

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Not 'promoting' the achievements of the Incas, but what you posted is peanuts compared to what the Incas achieved in just a couple of centuries.

A goddamn empire stretching out for 4000 kilometers.

And they are just now discovering how much their empire stretched out into Amazonian/jungle territory.

But they won't find those great megalithic Incan structures in the Amazon basin because they could only use clay.

I think we are in for a great surprize.

.

Nothing wrong to promote good things. I love Inkas. They are just behind Euroasian and north Africa civs.

Just for record Chinese under Qin dynasties were constructing wall of china and they have teracotta army centuries before. Before Christ.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Melo

[AzTide]

For ancient world I usually go with the Mongol Empire as the "Most Powerful". And Rome would be "Most Influential to the future".

The militarily most powerful empire ever would have to be the Soviet Union. They had as many as 45000 nuclear warheads in the 1980's.

US is the overall most powerful would have the be the USA. It still is the leader in nuclear capability and military prjection worldwide, as well as top politically and fincanically. Not that we are better, just that we have more influence in more places and more financial pull in more places then anyone else.

Great points just left off the Byzantine Empire..

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Great points just left off the Byzantine Empire..

Byzantine= Rome

Rome lived untill 1453.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Melo

[Orcseeker]

Byzantine= Rome

Rome lived untill 1453.

At that time it was just a city state and it would have made the rest of Italy look bad if they just went in and crushed them

[Orcseeker]

Excellent choice.

But how much evidence is there of other cultures or "empires" being taken over? Not that other cultures need to beh taken in order to be calles an empire.

Well, same deal with the Aztecs, they conquered surrounding tribes and received tribute from them. There were countless different tribes and nations in central to south America

[Orcseeker]

The Romans did demand tributes from neighboring and member nations, and used that to build their structures and institutions. Roman did not show up and spend tons of treasure to build up some place. They taxed and then spent a good deal of the money locally. The is good governing. That is really what made the Romans great. Good governance. Same goes for the British Empire. Good governance and organization.

I'd give the Mongol Empire high marks for even building such an empire with the technolgy they had a the time. It literally took years to travel from the capital to the frontiers of the empire. The Romans and the British could not say the same. The Mongels did more with less then any other nation.

The USA is still the mightest in all history though. In shear destructive, contructive, economic and informational power.

The USA isn't an empire I believe? Next choice

[The_Spartan]

My candidates chronologicaly would be :

Old kingdom of Egypt-Khufu Imhotep Djoser...

New kingdom of Egypt

Lydia- Just because of Miletus and their scientific thoughts.

Assyrian empire-Ashurbanipal, Nineveh library...and because they ruled them all

Neo-Babylonian Empire Nabopolassar,Nabuchadnezzar

Chartage and Hannibal

-The Achaemenid Empire -Cyrus,Darius, Xerxes

Gupta-Kalidasa "Shakespeare of India" ,plays and poetry, Aryabhata ,Varahamihira

Frankish empire -Charlemagne,Charles the Hammer ,Battle of Poitiers vs Umayyad Caliphate, Pepin the short,(they were great)

Pala empire-something about them is romantic. Pala=protector

Khmer empire-Angkor Wat

The Ayyubids- Saladin

Delhi Sultanate -Razia Sultana

Portuguese Viceroyalty of India-Vasco da Gama

Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth -Jan III Sobieski

The Maratha Empire

The Russian Empire -Peter and Mikhail Kutuzov, the man who dont need introduction.

Austro-Hungarian Empire

German Empire -Otto von Bismarck and one thing this is from wiki: During its 47 years of existence, the German Empire operated as an industrial, technological and scientific giant, receiving more Nobel Prizes in science than Britain, France, Russia and the United States combined.

But they all are not into top 5/6 no matter what.

And of course Shogunate.

Melo, could you please clarify why you are referring to Kalidasa who wrote the famous Work "Shakuntala" or AryaBhatta , who was a famous mathematician or Varahamihira who was a lao a famous mathematicians and astronomer, in the list of Great empires?

The Pala empire was indeed a Great Empire, which stretched from Modern day Pakistan (from the Kambojas) down to Modern Day Andhra Pradesh (a state in South India). But they never went further.

The Maurya Empire founded by chandragupta Maurya occupied almost the entire subcontinent

The Chola Empire, under Rajendra Chola I accomplished what the other Empires couldn't do or didn't bother to do...Conquer South East Asia. The Chola Empire, under Rajendra Chola I extended to the Malay peninsula and Modern day Indonesia.

Though the Maratha Empire was famous (it should be Maratha Confederacy, not Empire), it occupied only majority of central India only - Not further up or down - just central India.

[thewatchman7]

The US is the most powerful country at the moment but its far from being a great nation.

The British Empire is why English is the most spoken language, you ignore our role in the internet, we invented televisions and computers, the Italians invented pizza and Ford learnt how to mass produce cars but he didnt invent them.

The US has only been powerful for 60-70 years and hasnt redefined civilization like the British, Romans, Greeks, Spanish, Persians and others have. You'll need to stay top for a few centuries to do that but you've only got another 10 years left at most.

nail on the head.

i couldnt agree more.

[Wonderdoodler]

At our height we had control of over a billion people and complete economic, scientific and cultural haegemony over the planet.

The US doesnt even come close. Maybe if it conquered half of Africa, Canada, Austrailia, India, various countries around the Middle East, bits of Chima amd regions in Polynesia it would get closer but I cant see that happening.

It cant even beat the Taliban.

Screeching halt here... I'm usually not a correction alert person, but here we go... Afghanistan has only ever actually been successfully invaded ONCE. And that was Alexander the Great. And I don't think his was even considered an official conquest, he just kinda went through there. But the Brits, and Soviets both failed. You know.. anymore, saying I'm an American in a forum post is like bringing up religion. When I travel, unless I have to show my passport I don't even say I'm an American. I'm honestly proud to be American, but it's like a dirty word anymore and opens us up to be targets worldwide. The funny part is that in a lot of Arabic countries is where I get the biggest and best welcomes for being an American. Go to western europe and I feel like a TCN.

As far as the British conquering anything.. yeah Brits traveled the world and put their stamp on a bunch of land saying it was theirs, but so did the Dutch, Spanish, French, and Portugese(sp?). I don't really know where the British really conquered anything. They just moved so many people in to places that the natives eventually accepted it. But eventually like every other country, your little island couldn't control half the world from so far away.

Also what is not being said in a lot of these posts is that it is not being taken into account that during those times the technology had by the country in question vs the rest of the world. OR the size of the known world at the time.

I'm no expert on any nation, but I've read a bit. And from what I know of the Mongols, they kind of just got tired and stopped invading anywhere else. And because they were mostly an offensive nation, when they stopped invading, they got invaded. And they weren't very good at defensive postures.

Soviets.. From what I know of mother Russia, they've never really tried to reach out very far. Although there was that thing with the Swedes way back when(Google Poltava, Ukraine if interested).

And yes as an American.. Even us.. even as a proud veteran.. I am going to say this gritting my teeth. Failed attempts over the last few decades in Korea, Vietnam, and now our second trip to the middle east. Yes there are extenuating circumstances.. but all in all.. we don't learn from the past very well. Korea we just wanted to hold off the North, and didnt want to invade because of influences behind the NKR. Vietnam, we thought we could do better than the French and didnt listen. Afghanistan.. well read above. We backed the Iranian govt years ago that took power, now we're paying for it. Then we backed Sadaam and we paid for it. Then we dont listen to the Russians and invade Afghanistan, where the Iranians are getting payback and backing the insurgency there. So we don't really do a very good job at invading even with our technical prowess. We just are really good at influencing other countries with other peoples money.

Turkish Empire... I mean what did they do? they conquered Jerusalem 2 times and lost it how many times? I mean sorry.. but conquering one city and a bunch of sand doesnt really make you a great power. I mean Sulemein(sp?) couldn't even get through Transylvania. Vlad Dracul Tepest defeated huge Turkish armies with only a fraction of the men they had. You let one of the smallest kingdoms on the planet at the time, single handedly with no help from any outside countries defeat you. At one point I believe the stories say he defeated an army of 50,000 Turks with just 20,000 of his own. And not did he just defeat them, he impaled every single last one of them.

and the Greeks??? I saw them brought up. Did they even fight wars with anyone outside their own borders? Oh the movie 300? LOL.. don't even go there or I'm going to bring up Atlantis and flying spaceships, and mythical sea monsters.

Then you have the really old civilizations.. Indus Valley cultures, Mayans, Aztecs, Incans, Olmecs, Native American tribes... blah blah blah..

I honestly think China could have been the most powerful, they certainly are the longest standing according to a History channel show I watched..

BUT I'm going to say Japan. They successfully invaded China at one point, and made it to US waters. I mean once we gave them guns, it was on. Their only major setback that I know of was the two bombs we dropped on them. But look what happened after that.. they made a very quick recovery to become one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world. So I'd say Japan is the most powerful Empire throughout history.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Screeching halt here... I'm usually not a correction alert person, but here we go... Afghanistan has only ever actually been successfully invaded ONCE. And that was Alexander the Great. And I don't think his was even considered an official conquest, he just kinda went through there. But the Brits, and Soviets both failed. You know.. anymore, saying I'm an American in a forum post is like bringing up religion. When I travel, unless I have to show my passport I don't even say I'm an American. I'm honestly proud to be American, but it's like a dirty word anymore and opens us up to be targets worldwide. The funny part is that in a lot of Arabic countries is where I get the biggest and best welcomes for being an American. Go to western europe and I feel like a TCN.

As far as the British conquering anything.. yeah Brits traveled the world and put their stamp on a bunch of land saying it was theirs, but so did the Dutch, Spanish, French, and Portugese(sp?). I don't really know where the British really conquered anything. They just moved so many people in to places that the natives eventually accepted it. But eventually like every other country, your little island couldn't control half the world from so far away.

Also what is not being said in a lot of these posts is that it is not being taken into account that during those times the technology had by the country in question vs the rest of the world. OR the size of the known world at the time.

I'm no expert on any nation, but I've read a bit. And from what I know of the Mongols, they kind of just got tired and stopped invading anywhere else. And because they were mostly an offensive nation, when they stopped invading, they got invaded. And they weren't very good at defensive postures.

Soviets.. From what I know of mother Russia, they've never really tried to reach out very far. Although there was that thing with the Swedes way back when(Google Poltava, Ukraine if interested).

And yes as an American.. Even us.. even as a proud veteran.. I am going to say this gritting my teeth. Failed attempts over the last few decades in Korea, Vietnam, and now our second trip to the middle east. Yes there are extenuating circumstances.. but all in all.. we don't learn from the past very well. Korea we just wanted to hold off the North, and didnt want to invade because of influences behind the NKR. Vietnam, we thought we could do better than the French and didnt listen. Afghanistan.. well read above. We backed the Iranian govt years ago that took power, now we're paying for it. Then we backed Sadaam and we paid for it. Then we dont listen to the Russians and invade Afghanistan, where the Iranians are getting payback and backing the insurgency there. So we don't really do a very good job at invading even with our technical prowess. We just are really good at influencing other countries with other peoples money.

Turkish Empire... I mean what did they do? they conquered Jerusalem 2 times and lost it how many times? I mean sorry.. but conquering one city and a bunch of sand doesnt really make you a great power. I mean Sulemein(sp?) couldn't even get through Transylvania. Vlad Dracul Tepest defeated huge Turkish armies with only a fraction of the men they had. You let one of the smallest kingdoms on the planet at the time, single handedly with no help from any outside countries defeat you. At one point I believe the stories say he defeated an army of 50,000 Turks with just 20,000 of his own. And not did he just defeat them, he impaled every single last one of them.

and the Greeks??? I saw them brought up. Did they even fight wars with anyone outside their own borders? Oh the movie 300? LOL.. don't even go there or I'm going to bring up Atlantis and flying spaceships, and mythical sea monsters.

Then you have the really old civilizations.. Indus Valley cultures, Mayans, Aztecs, Incans, Olmecs, Native American tribes... blah blah blah..

I honestly think China could have been the most powerful, they certainly are the longest standing according to a History channel show I watched..

BUT I'm going to say Japan. They successfully invaded China at one point, and made it to US waters. I mean once we gave them guns, it was on. Their only major setback that I know of was the two bombs we dropped on them. But look what happened after that.. they made a very quick recovery to become one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world. So I'd say Japan is the most powerful Empire throughout history.

Incas and Aztecs were not ancient. They just stayed ancient in world where others civilizations developed.

As for Japan they biggest achivement was their transformation from feudal in industrial civilization. They didnt have big changes in society when they were gone trough industrial ,lets say, revolution. And they were only major east Asia country thta isnt been colonized and look how they developed. They can be example for those who claim that without colonizing some countriess they wouldnt be what they were now. And they are what they are after WWII because USA needed back up on east because expanding soivet influence and growing Mao s China - Korean wars and so on. Because USA signed allaince with Japan Soviets blaimed USA for betrayal of previous allainces against Germany Italy and Japan. Im mean ever asked yourself how come that they were not divided same as Germany?

Whats wrong with 300? Did they fight outside their borders? First of all Greeks invented colonies. Ever heard aboz ancient colonial era? Greeks expanded trough mediteran sea, in north africa, spain, sicily, Italy...and so on. My favourite Greeks battles were in Italy against Romans. Anyway Greek culture is unbeatable.

Thy didnt have empire. Only if you consider Hellenic Macedonian empire under Alexander. They were city states and boy what a states they were.

Sparta is not only 300. They have had many good things, interesting for sure. And Athens...ahhh.

What did Turks do? Well thats long answer, my advice is to buy some book about Ottomans. Trust me you will be surprised.

And Afghan was invaded several time. Sassanids, Mongols...

Edited March 16, 2012 by Melo