New lead in the Zodiac Killer Case ?

[JonathanVonErich]

I don't really think they were one in the same either, just some similarities between the two and wanted to get your take on it. I am still undecided on Cheri Bates, but we agree on the kathleen jones abduction. I don't believe it was Zodiac in that case.

Mike

About Cheri Jo: I agree, it's difficult to know the truth. Was she a Zodiac victim ?? Good question. The fact remains that after 45 years she is still a "possible" Zodiac victim, not an "Official", proof that there's simply nothing solid connecting Zodiac to the crime. Cheri was killed in 1966, more than two years before Zodiac's first known murders. We have to remember that all 5 official Zodiac attacks were committed in a relatively short period of time (less than 10 months), and I always thought that Cheri Jo's murder simply never fitted with the case. True: A lot of serial killers committed their crimes over very large amount of time ( in some cases many years, 1 there, 2 a year later, etc. ), but the very short amount of time between the 5 official crimes always made me think that the murders of Betty Lou and David must have been his first murders, and I just see nothing linking Z to the murder of Cheri Jo. The way she was killed ( beaten and stabbed multiple times with a short-bladed knife ) is unlike what we have seen with Zodiac, and everything about the case tells me that Z wasn'T behind it. In 1971 Zodiac wrote a letter and claimed responsability to the crime, but he gave absolutely no evidences to back up his claims, and we all know that he was a liar and tried to claim responsability for crimes he simply never committed. I'm sure that, if indeed he killed Cheri Jo, he would have given more details about the murder, something showing he really killed her. He gave no details, he never bragged about it before 1971 or after, therefore I conclude that Cheri Jo was killed by somebody else, probably a fellow student who knew her well. The Riverside Police Department believe they know the killer, and they are convinced he is not Zodiac. I'll believe the RPD over a liar like Zodiac anytime.

There's also the case of Robert Domingos and Linda Edwards, both killed on a remote beach in Santa Barbara, in 1963. Some people believe that they were killed by Zodiac. There's some similarities between this case and Zodiac's attack at Lake Berryessa, in September 1969. Also the ammunition used to kill them was the same kind Zodiac used at his Lake Herman Road attack. But in my opinion there's not enough to say that Zodiac was really the killer of Robert and Linda. They were killed in 1963, five years before the attack on David and Betty Lou, that's a huge amount of time. Again I am aware that a lot of serial killers committed some of their crimes with huge laps between them ( B.T.K. comes to mind ), but I'm having a hard time believing that a guy who killed 5 persons in less than 10 months could have waited for so long to commits other murders. Of course there's always the possibility that Zodiac killed between 1963 and the Lake Herman Road attack, but we have no proof that he did, and I'm sure he would have bragged about these murders in some of the letters he sent to the medias/authorities. Since Zodiac was a known liar it's difficult to know the truth for sure, but I'm sure he is not behind the Domingos-Edwards attack. There's simply nothing solid connecting Z to this horrible attack. Even Zodiac himself never tried to take responsability for the attack, probably a sign that he knew nothing about it.

I'll probably start a thread about the Domingos-Edwards case very soon.

Edited March 17, 2012 by JonathanVonErich

[msmike1]

There are really too many variables to say if Z was responsible. Time in between killings is normally not something I take into too much account. He could have been locked up, or killing in a different part of the country at that time, or maybe he just hadn't come across that "trigger" that prompted him to kill? Who knows. I think along your lines though. Most serial killers don't just stop, but he did. Why? I don't know, maybe he didn't, maybe he moved, died, went to jail, and on and on. Z was definitely one of the odd ones, not that any were normal. I need to look into the Domingos-Edwards case a little more, not as educated on it as others. Thanks for bringing it up.

Mike

[Shego]

Has anyone checked this out?

http://zodiackillernorth.blogspot.com/

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread609045/pg1

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread603250/pg1

Edited March 22, 2012 by Mademoiselle de Lioncourt

[msmike1]

Interesting, but most of the "evidence" she points to is just her opinion and she doesn't offer any real evidence to support her claim. Could it be true, well, yeah I guess it could. I just don't see any link, and the police not wanting to help in any way says a lot.

Mike

[Mentalcase]

Has anyone checked this out?

http://zodiackillernorth.blogspot.com/

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread609045/pg1

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread603250/pg1

I'm pretty sure we've went down this road before. Too many things don't add up. Plus the rape and torture thing isn't his MO, especially cannibalism. He was a media whore, not a sadistic cannibal. If he was still killing, he would most definitely be trying to brag about it and be a menace to society. I think the guy is dead or in jail. I vote for dead. Even if he was in jail, I think he would at least admit to the killings (for fame) or still be contacting media. This is why I believe he is dead. Or depending on what he could be incarcerated for, he may keep his mouth shut if he has a chance for parole. Hope we find the answer someday!

[JonathanVonErich]

Has anyone checked this out?

http://zodiackillernorth.blogspot.com/

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread609045/pg1

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread603250/pg1

Thanks for the links, madame.

The links you gave are interesting. However the theories you can find in these links can be easily dismissed, and are simply not logical or credible. It's sad that her daughter was molested, but let's face it: There's nothing linking her suspect to Zodiac. Absolutely nothing. Where is the evidences ?? Show me the evidences.

Just look at the second link. She claims that her suspect is Zodiac just because of his email address. Really !? These blogs are nothing more than a series of ramblings, circumstancial links, unfounded theories and illogical claims. When you know the Zodiac case very well then you know that the claims made in these blogs are simply not credible.

Months ago I had many discussions with a member called Theniece. The discussions can be found in this thread. I believe "Theniece" is the woman who wrote these blogs. I'm not sure, but I believe it's her. I liked Theniece, and it was fun to talk about the case with her. I have read her claims, have read her researchs,a nd there's no doubts in my mind that her suspect(s) had nothing to do with the Zodiac case. I mean she knew nothing about the Zodiac case; nothing. I had to tell her how the victims died, when the attacks took place, details about the crime scenes....everything. She was convinced that her suspect(s) was Zodiac, but didn't even knew what weapons he used or didn't knew when he killed !! How can she be so sure that her suspect(s) was involved when she knew nothing about the crimes !? It was laughable, but I still tried to help her and gave her all the infos about the case. Sadly her claims that her suspect was also involved in the JFK assassination or other cases ( again without a single piece of evidences or logic ) made me understand why the authorities don't want to help her. Who can blame them ??

But still thanks for the link, madame, we have to look at all the possibilities !

Interesting, but most of the "evidence" she points to is just her opinion and she doesn't offer any real evidence to support her claim. Could it be true, well, yeah I guess it could. I just don't see any link, and the police not wanting to help in any way says a lot.

Mike

I agree 100% with you, Mike.

In the many discussions I had with Theniece we talked a lot about why the authorities refused to help her in her "investigation". Long story short she claims that the authorities didn't want to help her, didn't want to listen to her theories because they didn't want to learn the truth. The truth is: she had absolutely no evidences to support her claims, and her ramblings about her suspect also being involved in the JFK assassination and other famous cases were ridiculous. I mean if you have absolutely no evidences to back up your claims and if it seems like you try to link your suspect to unrelated cases in the US and Canada....then what can the authorities do to help you ?? I agreed with her that her suspect(s) were possibly murderers, but I am convinced he/they had nothing to do with the Zodiac case.

No disrespect to her, I often said in this thread that I believe she was honest and that she really wanted to find the truth. However her claims are false and are based on absolutely nothing but hatred or revenge.

If he was still killing, he would most definitely be trying to brag about it and be a menace to society. I think the guy is dead or in jail. I vote for dead. Even if he was in jail, I think he would at least admit to the killings (for fame) or still be contacting media. This is why I believe he is dead.

Well said MC, I agree with you brother.

[msmike1]

Thanks for the links, madame.

The links you gave are interesting. However the theories you can find in these links can be easily dismissed, and are simply not logical or credible. It's sad that her daughter was molested, but let's face it: There's nothing linking her suspect to Zodiac. Absolutely nothing. Where is the evidences ?? Show me the evidences.

Just look at the second link. She claims that her suspect is Zodiac just because of his email address. Really !? These blogs are nothing more than a series of ramblings, circumstancial links, unfounded theories and illogical claims. When you know the Zodiac case very well then you know that the claims made in these blogs are simply not credible.

Months ago I had many discussions with a member called Theniece. The discussions can be found in this thread. I believe "Theniece" is the woman who wrote these blogs. I'm not sure, but I believe it's her. I liked Theniece, and it was fun to talk about the case with her. I have read her claims, have read her researchs,a nd there's no doubts in my mind that her suspect(s) had nothing to do with the Zodiac case. I mean she knew nothing about the Zodiac case; nothing. I had to tell her how the victims died, when the attacks took place, details about the crime scenes....everything. She was convinced that her suspect(s) was Zodiac, but didn't even knew what weapons he used or didn't knew when he killed !! How can she be so sure that her suspect(s) was involved when she knew nothing about the crimes !? It was laughable, but I still tried to help her and gave her all the infos about the case. Sadly her claims that her suspect was also involved in the JFK assassination or other cases ( again without a single piece of evidences or logic ) made me understand why the authorities don't want to help her. Who can blame them ??

But still thanks for the link, madame, we have to look at all the possibilities !

I agree 100% with you, Mike.

In the many discussions I had with Theniece we talked a lot about why the authorities refused to help her in her "investigation". Long story short she claims that the authorities didn't want to help her, didn't want to listen to her theories because they didn't want to learn the truth. The truth is: she had absolutely no evidences to support her claims, and her ramblings about her suspect also being involved in the JFK assassination and other famous cases were ridiculous. I mean if you have absolutely no evidences to back up your claims and if it seems like you try to link your suspect to unrelated cases in the US and Canada....then what can the authorities do to help you ?? I agreed with her that her suspect(s) were possibly murderers, but I am convinced he/they had nothing to do with the Zodiac case.

No disrespect to her, I often said in this thread that I believe she was honest and that she really wanted to find the truth. However her claims are false and are based on absolutely nothing but hatred or revenge.

Well said MC, I agree with you brother.

Yeah JVE, Theniece was out there. She has posted her outlandish claims on other forums generally to the same response. According to her she has been a witness too, involved in, or had information about every freakin famous murder since Kennedy. Anyway, don't know where she went, guess it got to hot around here for her. The theory about Z being in Canada is something I have heard before, and I just don't see it. It is just one of the many theories associated with this case and others. Some are convinced Z was the Unabomber, while others are convinced that Z was associated with a satanic cult that was also associated with Son of Sam. I don't know, so many theories so little time.

Mike

[simplybill]

Interesting find! Thanks for sharing. The Zodiac case seems to be our modern-day Jack the Ripper mystery.

I notice in the picture the man is wearing a wedding ring, and although he has his arm around her they certainly don't appear to be a happy couple.

Also the picture of the small child on the fireplace mantle behind them must have raised some questions.

[MelodyWall]

This is Melody and I am the woman who wrote the blog www.zodiackillernorth.blogspot.com

First of all I would like to say that I respect the opinion of those who do not support me. Generally I find those who judge me so critically are those who have not read all the posts on my blog in their entirety and have not been aware of my fight for justice over the years.

My daughter is not a child anymore. She is 21 years old, a drug addict and a prostitute and has been so since the age of 12. My daughter is fully aware of my blog, that I am writing a book and she supports my fight for justice. Unfortunately she is too messed up herself to come forward and try to do anything about this.

A few years ago, before I started my blog or resumed my fight for justice my child said "Mom, it really messed me up that the cops didn't believe me", she also said "I wonder how my life would have turned out if I was never taken away from you." She was taken from Children's psychiatric ward because the diagnosis was that she was so traumatized that she needed special care. I was still suffering a lot myself and was severely depressed and in my own therapy and I just wasn't able to give my child the same kind of care that a family experienced at dealing with sexually abused children could.

I have tried over and over to get the police to listen, but they don't care. All anyone has to do is google "BC Missing Women Inquiry", and you will find a ton of media coverage on how this bias and negligence has been going on a long time here in British Columbia. My child and I are not the only victims here.

I have already gone through 7 years of counselling to try and overcome what happened to my child, but it will never leave me. Me fighting, starting the blog, writing a book, sending out tons of emails to women's organiazations, missing persons organizations, media etc, is all to help me cope, to show my daughter that I never stopped fighting for her, and to gain public support that will give me the momentum that I need to force the RCMP to be responsible for the gross negligence.

What is in the past I cannot change, but hopefully I can help to make changes moving forward so that when a child victim comes forward with disclosures of abuse, that they are believed and not dismissed and treated like a piece of **** as the cop treated both my child and I. Just because someone does something so horrifying to a child that it is inconceivable, doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Whatever this man did to my child, whether she witnessed murders, or he only convinced her she saw these things, is abuse no matter which way you put it. There is a lot of evidene not posted on my blog that the RCMP refused to look at and Ron Rice, Forensic Examiner in the US has taken on my case pro bono. His opinion thus far is that my evidence is explosive and I haven't even sent it all to him. Ron himself is astonished at how the justice system here could have been so blind and outwardly negligent.

As for the Zodiac connection, I have never said this guy is Zodiac. I was watching the movie in 2007, and recognized the handwriting... "That's just how Henning writes!", I yelled out. Now I am not claiming to be an expert, I just recognized the style, as being the same way he wrote, and I have posted samples on my blog that show this. Doesn't me he is Zodiac, but I started doing some research and finidng more and more weird things that made a possible connection, and all I am doing is sharing those strange coincidences.

I abosolutely do believe this man is a killer and killings in BC have happened in areas where he had family as did the Zodiac killings way back... in areas he had family. Anyway there is a lot that leads me to believe the man is a killer, and it is all laid out on my blog... such as always throwing away his clothing and runners even when they were new, driving a van with chains hanging from the ceiling behind the passenger seat up Highway of Tears the same time women disappear, he was always giving me used women's clothing, wallets, and watches, etc, etc, etc... not to mention the secret compartment he dug out under his bathroom floor and the strange smell in his apartment...

There is far too much to this story to share here or on a blog and that is why I am writing a book. I want to make people aware that this kind of thing does happen. That people we trust can be evil. The the police we think are there to protect us, don't always protect us, and when a child discloses abuse we should believe them...

Some will continue to judge me critically, and that is ok. I am not here to sway opinions, but just speak up for who I am and why I fight for justice. I am just a mom who is still devastated by what happened to my child, and I will never give up fighting.

My team is at http://www.indiegogo.com/Zodiac-Killer-North?a=275377 where I have posted a campaign to raise funds for investigations and forensics as well as my book. This was urged by one of my team members. You can google anyone of these people to find they are legitimate professional people who have been backing me. This link here also talks about how serial killers evolve. It is not uncommon for a killer to change his MO, victim type, or grow to canablize their victims... it is just interesting talk, but what happened to my child, there is no doubt and in my mind there is also no doubt he is a killer.... check out this excerpt from my child on youtube to understand only a fraction of what she told me.... not to mention the horrifying pictures she drew...

Thank you and I respect everyone's opinion. Some support me and some don't. I thank those who have followed me the past couple years and sent me their support and words of encouragement. For those who don't, it is the difference in opinion that makes the world an innovative place....

PS: I am not Terri Williams, who I assume is "Theneice", which is "The neice". She claims that her Uncle Bubba was Zodiac and I had to delete a bunch of comments on my blog from her, because she was getting out of control. Anyway, Melody Wall is my real name, and I am not saying without a doubt this guy is Zodiac. I just thought there were some very strange coincidences, and so I started posting them bit by bit. There are other things as well not posted, but maybe he only admired Z and modeled himself after him, who knows. All I know is that he terribly hurt my daughter, and I absolutely believe he is a killer... the Zodiac connection may be pure conincidence, but when you align all those coincidences including a lot of stuff I have not posted, it is just weird and me starting the blog has helped me to cope and to bring public awareness to my personal story and the story of BC's missing women and the gross negligence by our RCMP.... I am far from done with proving this man is evil.

Edited April 26, 2012 by MelodyWall

[msmike1]

Hello Melody, and welcome to the board. I must first say that I am a very skeptical person. That is 99% of the time my first reaction to anything out of the ordinary. I guess it could be a flaw or it could be an attribute, both I guess. Anyway, I have no doubt that what you say happened to your daughter did happen. I am not disputing that in any way. I have no evidence to say otherwise. The Zodiac connection, well, I don't know, I will have to look into this a little deeper. You will have to forgive me for being slightly skeptical, as I said it is my nature. I do appreciate you coming aboard and speaking your peace in the way that you did. As you can most likely tell JVE is the resident Zodiac specialist so maybe he will jump in here.

Like I said before, I cannot dispute that your daughter was abused. I have no evidence for or against that. I also will not say that there is not a killer active in BC as we speak. I know about the Highway of Tears, I know about the pig farm, etc.. but I see no evidence at all pointing to this person being the Zodiac, or your suspect being a killer at all. Evil, vile person, sure, killer, well until evidence is presented to support that he is I can't say one way or another. The evidence you present to link your suspect with the Zodiac is really less than circumstantial. It is basically non-existant. Don't take that as an insult, it was not meant to be, just a statement. What is your evidence, real evidence, that supports this man being a murderer.

Mike

Edited April 26, 2012 by msmike1

[MelodyWall]

Hello Melody, and welcome to the board. I must first say that I am a very skeptical person. That is 99% of the time my first reaction to anything out of the ordinary. I guess it could be a flaw or it could be an attribute, both I guess. Anyway, I have no doubt that what you say happened to your daughter did happen. I am not disputing that in any way. I have no evidence to say otherwise. The Zodiac connection, well, I don't know, I will have to look into this a little deeper. You will have to forgive me for being slightly skeptical, as I said it is my nature. I do appreciate you coming aboard and speaking your peace in the way that you did. As you can most likely tell JVE is the resident Zodiac specialist so maybe he will jump in here.

Like I said before, I cannot dispute that your daughter was abused. I have no evidence for or against that. I also will not say that there is not a killer active in BC as we speak. I know about the Highway of Tears, I know about the pig farm, etc.. but I see no evidence at all pointing to this person being the Zodiac, or your suspect being a killer at all. Evil, vile person, sure, killer, well until evidence is presented to support that he is I can't say one way or another. The evidence you present to link your suspect with the Zodiac is really less than circumstantial. It is basically non-existant. Don't take that as an insult, it was not meant to be, just a statement. What is your evidence, real evidence, that supports this man being a murderer.

Mike

Hello Mike and thank you for yor reply. I absolutely feel know offense at all to anyone who is skeptical. I think we need to have skeptism in this world or we would all be suckers LOL! Had I had some skeptism about this guy who hurt my child, perhaps the damage would have been a lot less. As for evidence that the man is a killer, well I may indeed have that in my possession, but I have not been able to raise the funds to do the testing on the items that this man gave me that are still in my posession. I have two wallets, a coat, and a watch in addition to some other items that may be evidence, including an ID card from Prince George Native Centre. Trust me I have tried to contact the Native centre, and was told to send an email to a higher person who delted that email without reading it weeks later... anyway one of the wallets has a reddish brown residue underheath the laminate and a PI who does forensics has met with me and used special glasses and a light to show that the source was "Protein". This may be semen or blood and the DNA is yet to be determined. I don't trust handing it over to the police without documenting it first, as I am sure it will conveniently disappear. I don't think the RCMP care to admit they screwed up again...

There is other circumstantial evidence that I have not posted on my blog, such as a detailed timeline of from when I met Henning up until the very end... every date I could ever remember... when I met him, times we were fighting, when I had a baby, when I moved away, when I came back.... etc, etc, and when you align the times with missing women it is uncanny how many women disappeared during times he drove up Highway of Tears, or when I moved, or we were fighting, etc. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, but the only thing I genuinely have that would force the police to investigate and find their own evidence, are the items I have that may have belonged to victims. That evidence is corrupted because I have had it so long and would not be admissable in court, however if DNA evidence were to prove a link to a victim, then it would be enough to get a warrant and go dig up his floor, because why the hell did he dig out a compartment underneath his bathroom floor?? There is a lot that could be found through tracing of vehicles, digging up underneath his floor, finding his house in 100 Mile House, tracing any link to woodchippers, etc.... if the cops actually cared.

So I will continue to try and save money and raise funds to pay for investigations and forensics... I have one idea that could blow this whole story out of the water, but I cannot share those details in order to be successful. As for Zodiac, like I said, could all be a strange coincidence, but I would suggest this guy knew a lot about Zodiac and admired him.... there is too much to explain, but he referenced a lot of Zodiac phrasing, and idealisms, right down to the same spellling, and same style handwriting. So if I can open the eyes of the police here, that may be a start to check out his prints and DNA with the FBI and rule one way or another.

Attached is the pic of that one wallet I spoke of.... note the reddish brown residue underneath the laminate that the PI says is protein.

[MelodyWall]

Pardon my typos, LOL! I do know how to spell, but when you type 80 wpm, sometimes what is in the brain comes out different than it should be in typing....

Edited April 27, 2012 by MelodyWall

[MelodyWall]

I posted this on the "Unsolved Canada", site today.... just to share, because it's how I feel....

"Just a note to share today.... I have seen links to my blog shared on some new websites recently with people saying things like "If this really happened to her child the police would be all over it...." Let me just say that the RCMP treated both my child and I disgracefully. We were never believed and they called Mental Health on me. It has been over 13 years now, with the anniversary just passing on April 9th, when my child first disclosed her abuse in 1999. This haunts me every day of my life, and will never leave me. I have gone through 7 years of counselling on a weekly basis, I tried to kill myself in the past because I couldn't live with the guilt that I exposed my child to this predator.... Nobody can imagine the turmoil and the pain unless they have been through something like this. The police we think are there to protect us, don't always protect us, and this is a great part of my pain and my child told me the same.... "Mom it really messed me up that the cops didn't believe me." Now she is a drug addict and has been so since the age of 12. She dropped out of grade 7 and her life had been a downward spiral.... I sit here today.... 13 years later, with tears in my eyes and a heavy heart. Can you imagine the pain of loving and trusting someone who betrayed you so deeply and committed the ultimate crime against your child?

I don't even think death will take this away from me....."

As I have stated, I am not sure this guy is Zodiac, but there are just a lot of very strange coincidences, and for certain he knew a lot about Z and admired him. At the time I didn't know much about Z, so I had no idea when he was saying things that referenced Zodiac phrasings and idealisms.... or when he gave me the Christmas card that said "Happy Christmass".... at the time I had no clue. One thing I absolutely do belive, is that he is a killer here in BC and responsible for many missing/murdered women. YES there have been more women who have disappeared after Pickton was arrested, MANY, and most of the missing women were not found on the pig farm and still unaccounted for. The fact this guy lives less than 3 miles from that farm still haunts me as well... may be a link, or just another strange coincidence. However it goes to show that this thing does happen and the Coquitlam RCMP not only messed up with the Pickton case, but with how they handled the investigation in my case as well... the very same department, and I really don't think they care to admit they made another hideous error..... that is part of the reason I am writing the book, because it is the only way I can share what really happened and to make people aware that such gross negligence does exist and we as the public, no matter where in the world we live, should not tolerate this. It is absolutely disgusting and I will never stop fighting for justice until my dying breath....

To my daughter.... I love you so very much and I am soooo terribly sorry for what happened to you. If I could fall on a sword and take this pain from you I would.... I will never forgive myself for what happened. I didn't know.... I could never apologize enough for what happened to you and all I can do now is continue to fight and hopefully one day show you that you are believed. Many from around the world have sent their love to you. You are believed and you are loved by many... now just to get the police to believe and I will never give up until they do.... On a more positive note, Missing Women Task Force finally called to say Henning is on the list.... it took 13 years, but it is a start to something I still need to finish.... I love you.

Edited April 28, 2012 by MelodyWall

[JonathanVonErich]

Hi Melody, thank you for sharing more information, and welcome to the forum.

I want to say that I am terribly sorry for what happened to your daughter and that my thoughts are with you and your family, hopefully everybody will be able to move on with their lives one day. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you, but stay strong.

I hope I wasn't rude in my previous post about your blog. Over the years I have read so many blogs pretending to solve the Zodiac case that I guess I was a little p***ed off about the lack of solid evidences against your suspect. In my humble opinion these very strange coincidences are nothing more than...well, strange coincidences, and I am convinced that your suspect is not the Zodiac Killer. What's bothering me is the timeline, the fact there's nothing proving that your suspect could have been in the area when the crimes were committed. I'm sure you are honest and that you work hard to find the truth, but seriously even the circumstancial evidences against your suspect are very weak.

However I hope you'll be able to raise the funds for the testing. Good luck.

Still nothing new about the picture or the DNA testing from Berryessa.

[robfield68]

Arthur Lee Allen is the Zodiac. After reading The Zodiac and The Zodiac Unmasked I cannot see how anyone else could be considered. Here are the reasons for be belief.

1) Size 10 1/2 Wing Walker shoes worn by the killer in Valejo. Allen owned a pair of 10 1/2 Wing Walker shoes,

A rare shoe.

2) Arthur Lee Allen lived 100 feet from where Darlene Ferrin worked. The Ferrin family was called at the same time the police received a call the night she was killed. The caller just stayed silent for 30 seconds. Then the police recorded a call from the killer reporting the killing in detail. The killer/Zodiac knew Darlene!

3) Allen told police, without even being asked, that he had a bloody knife in his car the day of the Barryessa killings. He told police that they were from "killing a chicken for dinner". The Barryessa murder was by knife! A neighbor had seen the knife in Allen's car and he was trying to explain it away to SFPD. They never asked him about it and were not even aware of it and yet Allen offered the explanation. Arthur Lee Allen had been known to frequent Lake Barryessa for skin diving.

4) Michael, who survived the night Darlene Ferrin was killed, identified Arthur Lee Allen as the man who shot him and killed Darlene.

5) Darlene's friend identified Allen as the man who Darlene feared and who attended a house painting party at Darlene's house.

6) Arthur Lee Allen wore a Zodiac watch with the symbol that was on the Zodiac letters to the newspaper. Not a popular watch or even known symbol at the time. The police did not even know that the brand of watch even existed until they interviewed Allen and he was wearing it!

7) Allen's own family is convinced he is the Zodiac based on wording and certain spelling errors common to Arthur that were featured in the Zodiac letters to the SF Chronicle

Darlene Ferrin knew Arthur Lee Allen and Allen killed her. He is the Zodiac. Robrert Greysmith, who knows more about the case than anyone alive, believes Allen is the Zodiac. He stood right in front of Allen, face to face at Allen's work, and said he knew he did it.

Also, Arthur Lee Allen was in Southern California for the murder they later connected to the Zodiac case. The Zodiac actually wrote in one of his letters that he thought it was good police work finding out about that killing he did down south.

He did it people. He is dead and will never be held accountable but he totally did it. It sucks that it cannot be proved or prosecuted, but I feel and so does Greysmith that the truth died with Arthur Lee Allen in 1991.

[robfield68]

Regarding the picture of Darlene and the unknown man:

He does look like the composite sketch. There were a lot of people at that time that looked like the composite sketch. One of the things the Zodiac boasted about was his ability to change his image and look. Those type of glassed were VERY common at the time and anyone with side parted hair and horn rimmed glasses would look like the sketch. It is odd to see that photo side by side with the composite though. Spooky. While I feel Arthur Lee Allen was the Zodiac that photo freaked me out a bit.

[JonathanVonErich]

Rob - I highly respect your opinion, thanks for sharing.

I have always said that a lot of interesting but circumstancial evidences link Allen to the case, but nothing more. Yes, Arthur Leigh Allen was a very sick man. He was a child molester and a violent man, but there's no evidence that the guy was a murderer. In my opinion Allen, in a sick way, wanted to be The Zodiac but couldn't. He wanted the fame that the killer had, wanted to be linked to the case and liked that investigators like Toschi thought he was the killer. The watch is a good example of this. However here are some facts you forgot to mention:

- Allen was cleared via DNA testing in 2002.

- Allen's handwriting never matched the killer's handwriting.

- Allen's shoe size was 10 1/2, true, but he never owned Wing Walkers, at least we have no proof that he did.

- The fact Allen lived near Darlene means absolutely nothing, now you're falling into Graysmith's little plan to add more drama in his book. There's no evidences that Allen knew Darlene, Darlene knew Allen so I don't know why you mention this. And the phone calls again means nothing against Allen, in fact many people believe the calls were made by Darlene's brother, who wanted drugs from her (Darlene was dealing drug at the time), or that it could have been a reporter trying to get a scoop. It wasn't Allen.

- The entire story about Darlene's friend having identified Allen as being Darlene's stalker is not true. In fact there's absolutely no evidence that Allen knew Darlene or that Darlene knew Allen, it was most likely created by Graysmith to add some "drama" to the book ( sadly the book is full of it ). If indeed Darlene had a stalker it could have been anybody, there's absolutely nothing proving that they even talked to one another, that they were once in the same room. Darlene was seeing a lot of guys at that time.

- Mageau is not a reliable witness, he changed his story many times and most people doubt very seriously that he could have had a good look at the man who attacked him. It was pitch black on that night, I doubt very seriously that Mageau really saw the killer's features. But it's probably the best evidence against Allen, I agree.

- About the bloody knife: A lot of people believe Allen told that story just to surprise the investigators. He was a liar and liked that the authorities were looking at him as a suspect, wouldn't surprise me if he created the story just to get some attention.

To me the biggest thing is the DNA testing and the handwriting. The letters are basically the only thing we have in this case since the killer left no evidences on any of the crime scenes. Also we have to remember that both persons claiming that Allen told them he was Zodiac all wanted to get revenge on Allen for things he did to them in the past, so again there's nothing solid against Allen.

So you read both books written by Robert Graysmith. I agree, good read. I bought my first copy of "Zodiac" in 2000, must have read it at least 10 times. However are you aware that Robert Graysmith is not a reliable author, that almost all serious Zodiac researchers now consider his books as being not credible and that Graysmith created a lot of myths and lies about Arthur Leigh Allen ?? Sadly it's true. Graysmith created a lot of myths about Allen, in many way he created a character just so his readers will believe he solved the case. Graysmith also committed mistakes about location of some of the murders, names ( at one point he called Cecelia Shepard "Cecelia Shepperd" ), and he made some mistakes about other crimes, like some of the Santa Rosa murders for example. Graysmith is simply not a credible researcher. I hate to say it since for years "Zodiac" was almost my bible. But now I know better, and credible researchers like Tom Voigt or Michael Butterfield showed that Graysmith is not reliable.

This is a link to a very interesting article written by a very credible researcher and author, Michael Butterfield. This article shows that Graysmith created many myths about Allen, and that the two books he wrote can't be trusted.

Article: An Almost Completely Fictitious Person http://www.zodiackil.../graysmith2.htm

Here are links to "Graysmith Unmasked", both articles and videos showing how much Graysmith can't be trusted.

Article: Graysmith Unmasked http://www.zodiackil...m/graysmith.htm

Video: Graysmith Unmasked ( follow the links for part 2 to 7 )

Now all serious researchers knows that Graysmith is not reliable, that he created myths about the case and that the two books he wrote can't be trusted. You said that Graysmith know more about the case than anybody else alive; sorry my friend, this is not true, you should have done your homework. Again no disrespect and I respect your opinion, but today in 2012 it's really easy to see that Graysmith committed an awful lot of mistakes in his books. You know what he said right after he learned that Allen was found innocent via DNA testing ?? He said that Allen must have had an accomplice, that Zodiac was two men, something he never talked about in his two books. Sad. This is not only my opinion, all serious Zodiac researchers that I know are aware that Graysmith is a fraud, and that most of the things hew rote can't be trusted. But I respect your opinion, always fun to talk about the case with other people.

Edited May 5, 2012 by JonathanVonErich

[robfield68]

I hear you and I respect that POV.

I thought that when they finally searched Allen's mobile home they found the Wing Walker shoes. No? Also, didn't Allen's friends say he intended to use the name Zodiac and pick off kids in a new years day conversation in 1969/70. I can believe that they perhaps hated him and thought him a child molester so maybe they made that up, but didn't Allen's sister and brother in law confirm that the language in the Zodiac letters was like that used by Allen in letters to the family or cards?

Also, I recall some mention of Allen being heard talking about mounting a flashlight to a pistol and using that to shoot people in the dark. In one of the early Zodiac letters he admits to doing just that. I agree this is all circumstantial, but to me it really paints a picture of someone who is suspect. why bring up the knife with the blood on the same day as the Barryessa killings?

It always seemed to me that robert greysmith and Det. Toskie were the most passionate about knowing who did this. Both of them believe that Arthur Lee Allen did it.

Plus, all that was proved in 2002 was that an envelope and other items did not have Allen's DNA. Whoever did this baffled police with a lack of evidence all around. Handwriting could have easily been altered or faked to mislead. I just think Allen was always the best suspect. Not leaving even his saliva could have been a diversionary tactic?

I could be wrong. ALA did a TV interview for KTVU prior to his death and it actually swayed my thinking that maybe he did not do it. If not him then who is my question? Are there suspects or evidence pointing to someone else that I should learn about?

[robfield68]

The one thing that always bothered me about the case was the fingerprint in blood left on the Taxi in SF. It matched nobody including the police one the scene. It had to be the killer or killers print and it was not Allen's. Also there was a chemical test done on a letter the Zodiac wrote and a palm print was found. Also not Allen's. These 2 facts always conflicted with my Arthur Lee Allen theory. Some part of me feels that he did it and you are correct that Graysmith (not Greysmith) is the main reason I feel that way. i just want to believe that a guy who seemed to have as much passion for the case as anyone probably figured it out. Perhaps not. That partial fingerprint in blood on the Taxi haunts me. It was a thumb print too so even DMV might have it. It's a horrible mystery and I am fully obsessed with it.

[JonathanVonErich]

No. The investigators found that Allen was wearing 10 1/2 shoes, but no Wing Walkers were found, this is one of the myths created by Graysmith. No evidence exists to indicate that Allen ever wore or owned a pair of Wing Walker boots. Only one person claimed to have seen Allen wearing these boots, and this witness did not come forward until after Graysmith had linked Allen to the boots in his first book. This witness is also the source for many other unsubstantiated and sensational claims about Allen.

Allen's "friend", Don Cheney, claimed that Allen told him he was going to call himself The Zodiac, that he would put a flashlight to a pistol and hunt young couple, that he would taunt the authorities, etc. Cheney WAS a credible witness, but now we know he had a motive to accuse Allen of being the killer. You see Allen tried on more than one occasion to molest Cheney's daughter, sad but true. All the things about Allen claiming he would call himself Zodiac, the flashlight thing, everything comes from Cheney, and we now know he had more than one reasons to accuse Allen of being the killer. When Cheney made his statement to the authorities him and allen were not on good terms, therefore many people now believe that Cheney is not a reliable source. In fact some people now think that Cheney himself was the Zodiac ( I'm not one of them, but you'd be surprised to see how many people have suspicions about him ).

I agree that the DNA testing is not definitive proof that Allen was innocent, but the fact that even Graysmith himself had to change his theory after hearing the result of the test is, to me, proof that we should take this test seriously.

Karen, Allen's sister in law, is the one claiming that 2 or 3 phrases that Zodiac used were similar to Allen's. She said Allen once wrote "Merry X-Mass", with two "s", just like Zodiac did in one of his letter. Very credible witness, and very interesting fact linking Allen to the case.

I have a lot of respect for mr. Toschi, but even great investigators can be wrong. He obviously became obsessed with Allen, therefore it's highly possible that he was wrong. When you become obsessed with a suspect you will convince yourself that the man is guilty even without having any kind of real evidences against him, and in my opinion that's what happened in this case. Yes, Graysmith was passionate about the case, I agree, but it doesn't mean that he was right on everything. Graysmith was so passionate that he felt the need to create myths about his suspect, he went too far.

Well Tom Voigt, webmaster of zodiackiller.com, is very high on suspect Richard Gaikowski. If you go to the zodiackiller.com message board you'll see that a lot of people are convinced that Gaikowski was Zodiac. I think Gaikowski is a very good suspect, but it's the same story than Allen's : Lot of interesting facts linking him to the case, no solid evidences showing he was the killer. Voigt, who was once convinced Allen was the killer, said that Gaikowski is the best suspect he ever saw. The history channel even did an investigation on Gaikowski for the show MysteryQuest. I think you can find the show on Youtube if you haven't seen it yet. I don't think Gaikowski is the Zodiac Killer, but a lot of interesting facts link him to the case.

Here's some info about Gaikowski, from zodiackiller.com:

Suspect: Richard Gaikowski http://www.zodiackil...tGaikowski.html

Here's a link to the zodiackiller.com message board where you can find a section about Gaikowski, plenty of interesting information there.

Message Board: http://zodiackiller....forum.php?f=130

Judge for youself. To me Allen and Gaikowski are the same: Very good suspects, very few solid evidences against them.

Edited May 5, 2012 by JonathanVonErich

[robfield68]

Also, just to beat the Arthur Lee Allen dead horse, I am fairly certain the wing walker shoe thing is true. I recall seeing a news show where they said SF detectives observed Allen wearing those exact shoes in size 10.5 during their interview with him as well as the Zodiac watch. Also, Allen was confirmed to have received code training while in the military. That being said and presuming it is true there is still the handwriting and fingerprint evidence that points away from Allen. Perhaps his friends and family who implicated him were simply full of hate due to his issues with children and they just wanted him put in jail. They maybe fabricated stories to get him locked up, but maybe they were telling the truth. It is a true mystery. I still say there's a 60% chance it was him. ha!

[robfield68]

What is strange is that no finger print was ever matched to the bloody partial on the cab and no match on the palm print from the letter that they found with a chemical process. Even more so than handwriting, which I feel could have been faked, a finger print would not have been faked. In a moment like the one at Washington and Cherry I don't think a killer could have had the foresight and cunning to make a fake fingerprint in advance and leave it in blood. Therefore I feel the finger print has to be the killers. As I understand it they cleared everyone who was at the scene in an official capacity from being the person who left the print. The police arrived too quickly for someone passing by to leave it. In a court of law that fact alone could have cleared both possible suspects you mentioned.

I guess Allen had a partner! Just Kidding. I don't think he had many friends and certainly nobody who would trust him enough to get involved to leave evidence. The killer is probably dead anyway, but we need to know who it was! That is why I like Allen. My brain wants it to be him so that I don't have to wonder who the hell it was anymore. Know what I mean.

[JonathanVonErich]

About the print: the truth is....we don't know the truth. The reason why the print was never matched to any of the prime suspects is perhaps because somebody left a "fake" print on the cab. What I mean by this is that a police officer or paramedic could have left the print while they were moving the body, or while they were investigating the crime scene. Sadly it happens a lot more often than we think. One bad move and Bam !, "fake" fingerprint.

You are wrong dear friend, the wing walker thing is not true. Allen had the same shoe size as the killer, but the story about him having Wing Walker boots is a myth and not true at all. The people who did the report were wrong and most probably believed Graysmith's BS.

I know what you mean, you want the case to be solved and therefore you're trying to convince yourself that Allen is guilty. The same thing happened to Graysmith and Toschi; they wanted to solve the case so badly, they were so obsessed about it that they convinced themselves that Allen was guilty. That's how I feel about it.

[JonathanVonErich]

Not everybody who were at the crime scene that night were cleared, therefore the possibility that it could have been a print left by one of the investigators, paramedics, etc. is still there.

Then maybe the fingerprint is proof that Zodiac was somebody totally unknown to the authorities.

[robfield68]

So basically Robert Graysmith made things up to fit his theory. That us totally uncool. A lot of the things I believed were simply made up or fabricated so he could prove his theory on the case. I am hugely disappointed by this realization. I looked to his book for facts and it turns out he's maybe done more harm than good. The shoe things is BS too? I just watched an old TV show clip where they claimed Arthur Lee Allen most likely purchased the Wing Walkers at his old military base. Now it turns out to be a story and not true? That was one of the reasons I thought it was Allen among others potential fabrications. It seems a lot of Graysmiths story is being exposed as untrue. I am very sad to see this unravel for me. I really thought I new what was up and now I am disillusioned.