Trayvon Martin Shooter Still Not Arrested

[H.H. Holmes]

The social outrage set off by this murder reeks of hypocrisy...

Where is the outrage about 1,000,000 African-Americans in jail?

Where is the outrage about the other young black men who get murdered every day? Usually by other black men. Where is their march or rally?

If George Zimmerman had a darker complexion then this wouldn't have made it to the front page of the local newspaper, let alone generate national coverage from major media outlets.

I understand that this is a tragedy, I am not trying to belittle Trayvon's family's loss, but I cannot help to see the contradictory nature in which the whole nation reacts to white-on-black crime (George Zimmerman is half white half hispanic) compared to black-on-black crime.

Of course, the way in which the police department handled the whole situation didn't help any to dispel questions of racism or fair treatment, either.

Edited March 29, 2012 by H.H. Holmes

[+susieice]

That's the frustration I think. People are sick of being a prisoner in their own neighborhoods, and they want to take things back. The police are often too late and too spread thin to deal with these things.

That being said, I agree. Zimmerman should have never followed the young man, and certainly never approached him. It's just that I can understand the frustrations a homeowner may have.

Even if Trayvon Martin was up to no good (and there are no indications that he was), he certainly didn't deserve to die for that.

I know people are upset with the rise in crime in their neighborhoods but they need to think if taking the law into their own hands is really the best way to deal with the problem. For all the talk of racism, that wasn't even the first thing I thought when I heard this story nor do I really think about it now. All that talk is rubbish. What concerns me is do people really want armed people walking the streets shooting others because they don't like what they're wearing or the way they look, no reasonable suspicion or criminal action required. I walk to the store often after work when it's dark and I have a hoodie. It's an article of clothing used for warmth when a heavy coat isn't necessary. I read in a post on the other thread about how 60F isn't cold enough to wear one but it sure is. Nights at 60 when you're near water or accustomed to daytime temps in the 80-90 degree range can be quite cool. Summer temps in Florida can reach 100 with a 98% humidity. If we start to approve of vigilantism no one will be safe, no questions asked. Where I live, the law doesn't give this kind of leeway and I'm thankful for that. I have to wonder if anyone walking on the street in Florida is safe. Anyone can be accused of anything even if nothing is really going on. That should scare people. Is anyone really thinking?

Just posted this in that other thread. It's a police surveillance video showing Zimmerman arriving at the Sanford Police Department for questioning. He is handcuffed with no visible injuries to his head, no blood and no broken nose. The plot thickens.

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003--abc-news-topstories.html

Edited March 29, 2012 by susieice

[Michelle]

The social outrage set off by this murder reeks of hypocrisy...

Where is the outrage about 1,000,000 African-Americans in jail?

Where is the outrage about the other young black men who get murdered every day? Usually by other black men. Where is their march or rally?

If George Zimmerman had a darker complexion then this wouldn't have made it to the front page of the local newspaper, let alone generate national coverage from major media outlets.

I understand that this is a tragedy, I am not trying to belittle Trayvon's family's loss, but I cannot help to see the contradictory nature in which the whole nation reacts to white-on-black crime (George Zimmerman is half white half hispanic) compared to black-on-black crime.

Of course, the way in which the police department handled the whole situation didn't help any to dispel questions of racism or fair treatment, either.

You hit the nail on the head. This didn't make national news...

Neighbors say a 13-year-old Chattanooga girl was playing in the street with her cousins Saturday night shortly before a bullet struck the back of her head.

After hearing the shots, neighbor Brenda Talley said she rushed onto Bennett Avenue, where a young girl was cradling the limp frame of Keoshia Ford.

"I couldn't find her pulse ... blood was just pouring into the street," Talley said Monday. "That little girl was just holding her while all these other adults and teenagers looked on."

Keoshia remained in critical condition at Erlanger hospital after Chattanooga police say she was caught in the crossfire of a shootout that spanned several blocks in Highland Park as people in several vehicles exchanged gunfire with people on the street.

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/mar/20/chattanooga-child-playing-street-before-shooting/

But, of course that was a black on black gang crime and she was caught in the crossfire.

And yet this got picked up across the US....

The Chattanooga Hamilton County NAACP on Tuesday issued a calls "for an immediate investigation" of an incident early Saturday morning in which three young white males were charged with throwing firecrackers and allegedly making racist remarks at East Lake Courts.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2011/7/12/204925/NAACP-Calls-For-Investigation-Of-Hate.aspx

They threw firecrackers and shouted racial slurs.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Michelle

[Eldorado]

Quick question, cousins.....

Is there an IQ test and/or an "upstanding citizen" test you need to pass before being granted a license to own firearms in the US?

(just interested)

[+susieice]

Quick question, cousins.....

Is there an IQ test and/or an "upstanding citizen" test you need to pass before being granted a license to own firearms in the US?

(just interested)

You have to pass a criminal background check so it's interesting that you can do that after pleading in a case involving assault on a police officer. However in most states, you can't go around shooting people on the street. Here where I am you also have to apply for and have character references to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

[Eldorado]

You have to pass a criminal background check so it's interesting that you can do that after pleading in a case involving assault on a police officer. However in most states, you can't go around shooting people on the street. Here where I am you also have to apply for and have character references to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

Thank you. I knew there had to be some kind of background check.

p.s. The politicos who passed that "stand your ground" law need their heads or motives examined, imo. It's stupid beyond belief.

[+susieice]

Thank you. I knew there had to be some kind of background check.

p.s. The politicos who passed that "stand your ground" law need their heads or motives examined, imo. It's stupid beyond belief.

Now you I can agree with. This law was destined to eventually cause an incident that would stick a burr under the saddle. I don't like what I'm seeing, but now it is again being used by the wrong people. There could well be riots, but it's too late to change what happened. Allowing Zimmerman to go free without facing some sort of charges is just going to fan the flames. I'm glad I don't live in Florida.

[wittyusernamefailed]

After reading Florida's version of "stand your ground." I will agree that the fact that one does not have a duty to seriously attempt to retreat from a situation is asking for hot-headed Rambo behavior. But to be logical about the situation, this does not in any way negate that a citizen with a completely clear record (and not the legal cartwheeling as in Zimmermen's case) should be allowed to carry a firearm. I understand this may be a very unpopular belief especailly in light of what happened; but the statistics and simple logic dictate that criminal behavior will drop in areas where crimanals can not be sure that it is safe to enact acts of violence against innocents. Put it this way; if you are in the process of getting mugged, raped, murdered.... what do you want to have in your hand? A phone with a dispatcher telling you that the cops are "only 20 mins out"; or a 45.cal pistol? I think that most people if they were honest would choose the 2nd.

Also the fact that people are using this to make political hay, cough sharpten cough, is just beyond reprehensible. All We hear from them is calls of frenzied vengence, not justice. We don't have all the facts, and to be putting contracts on Zimmermen ( as the new black panthers and other groups are) is just stupid.

[eqgumby]

Now you I can agree with. This law was destined to eventually cause an incident that would stick a burr under the saddle. I don't like what I'm seeing, but now it is again being used by the wrong people. There could well be riots, but it's too late to change what happened. Allowing Zimmerman to go free without facing some sort of charges is just going to fan the flames. I'm glad I don't live in Florida.

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

I don't see how this is a bad law. If I'm walking along the street, and get attacked, and I have a legal gun, and I seriously fear great bodily harm (like a 6'3" man punching my face as I am laying on the ground) I should be a allowed to shoot his dumb ass.

[wittyusernamefailed]

Because due to the law not emphasizing that retreat from a situation should be paramount excepting in instances of clear harm to a person; it inadvertently has the effect of making people want to be "Heroes" and charging into powder-keg situations that would best be addressed by authorities. Take the Zimmerman case for instance. No one was in any danger of harm to life or body, there was not even any surety of criminal intent as regards to Trayvon. And yet Zimmerman decided of his own accord to follow and confront trayvon; and I tend to think that the law not expressing a clear command to desist from a situation, may have had a hand in Zimmerman's thought process and decision to pursue Trayvon. And so while we may not know all the details for quite some time, what should have ended with a cop pulling alongside Trayvon, asking "Hello son, do you live around here? (or something to effect), and then that being end of story...instead we have a shooting and the resulting hoopla.

Edited March 29, 2012 by wittyusernamefailed

[eqgumby]

Because due to the law not emphasizing that retreat from a situation should be paramount excepting in instances of clear harm to a person; it inadvertently has the effect of making people want to be "Heroes" and charging into powder-keg situations that would best be addressed by authorities. Take the Zimmerman case for instance. No one was in any danger of harm to life or body, there was not even any surety of criminal intent as regards to Trayvon. And yet Zimmerman decided of his own accord to follow and confront trayvon; and I tend to think that the law not expressing a clear command to desist from a situation, may have had a hand in Zimmerman's thought process and decision to pursue Trayvon. And so while we may not know all the details for quite some time, what should have ended with a cop pulling alongside Trayvon, asking "Hello son, do you live around here? (or something to effect), and then that being end of story...instead we have a shooting and the resulting hoopla.

There is an assumption that the victim was confronted. We don't know that. The problem that the law supposedly addressed, was the issue of criminals using intimidation as a means of executing a crime in an environment other than a victims home. All too often a mugging victim was criminalized because he beat the hell out of a criminal that was attempting to rob him or her, or in many cases a criminal would have the audacity to sue a person that was protecting themselves or another victim from physical harm.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/crime_victim_now_being_sued_by.html

http://www.loweringthebar.net/2009/10/armed-robber-sues-after-being-shot-by-armed-victim.html

[+and-then]

Now you I can agree with. This law was destined to eventually cause an incident that would stick a burr under the saddle. I don't like what I'm seeing, but now it is again being used by the wrong people. There could well be riots, but it's too late to change what happened. Allowing Zimmerman to go free without facing some sort of charges is just going to fan the flames. I'm glad I don't live in Florida.

That may be cold comfort. The way the race hustlers are spinning this thing the riots could go nation wide to a city near you. Seriously, this has the potential to get very ugly and as more info comes out it is looking less and less cut and dried against Zimmerman. He will probably be arrested but I doubt very seriously he will be convicted of anything. Witness say he was being beaten by Martin and was screaming for help. If he felt his life was in jeopardy, he had the right to use deadly force. Period. It is obvious from the choice of images the news has portrayed that they are selling the white on black, evil %&&&$$ harming innocent kid as their story for ratings.

[+susieice]

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

I don't see how this is a bad law. If I'm walking along the street, and get attacked, and I have a legal gun, and I seriously fear great bodily harm (like a 6'3" man punching my face as I am laying on the ground) I should be a allowed to shoot his dumb ass.

So your saying that everyone who gets into a fight and finds themselves losing should be allowed to kill the person they're fighting with? Ouch!

[+susieice]

[/b]

That may be cold comfort. The way the race hustlers are spinning this thing the riots could go nation wide to a city near you. Seriously, this has the potential to get very ugly and as more info comes out it is looking less and less cut and dried against Zimmerman. He will probably be arrested but I doubt very seriously he will be convicted of anything. Witness say he was being beaten by Martin and was screaming for help. If he felt his life was in jeopardy, he had the right to use deadly force. Period. It is obvious from the choice of images the news has portrayed that they are selling the white on black, evil %&&&$$ harming innocent kid as their story for ratings.

You're right about that. Philadelphia isn't exactly the city of brotherly love. I don't go for all that racist bull either. Nor can I go with the past trangressions as they both obviously have them. Being allowed to shoot someone dead because you are losing a fight I'm not so sure of.

Edited March 30, 2012 by susieice

[+susieice]

[/b]

That may be cold comfort. The way the race hustlers are spinning this thing the riots could go nation wide to a city near you. Seriously, this has the potential to get very ugly and as more info comes out it is looking less and less cut and dried against Zimmerman. He will probably be arrested but I doubt very seriously he will be convicted of anything. Witness say he was being beaten by Martin and was screaming for help. If he felt his life was in jeopardy, he had the right to use deadly force. Period. It is obvious from the choice of images the news has portrayed that they are selling the white on black, evil %&&&$$ harming innocent kid as their story for ratings.

You're right. The city of Philadelphia isn't exactly the city of brotherly love. I'm not buying all this racial stuff. Nor can I base anything of past transgressions as they both have them. Shooting and killing someone because you're losing a fight I'm not so sure of. Usually, that ends in an arrest and a court case.

[Babe Ruth]

I just watched an interview between ABC news and Zimmerman's lawyer and a friend of his. Both are expert at giving vague answers and his lawyer sounded like he hasn't got a clue about what's going on in his own client's case. What galls me is that Zimmerman has stated (through others) that he has "virtually lost is life". I'm sorry but there is zero comparison between virtually losing your life and literally losing your life. As for the neighbourhood watch crap, the little association he was part of isn't even registered in the national database of neighbourhood watch associations.

Agreed.

[Amon-Ra]

Yeah

the reporting on this incident is hyteria. many statements in your video are false. various witnesses who do not know Zimmerman reported to police that Trayvon decked Zimmerman and was pounding Zimmerman's head against the ground, that Zimmerman called 911 and went back to his car and was chased by Trayvon. also: newspapers keep showing a very old picture of Trayvon, he grew up and was 6 feet tall and 160 lbs, 3 ins taller than Zimmerman. it was also reported that Zimmerman was white, not true, he is an Hispanic. this is just outrageous.

[Toolite]

The evidence indicates that Zimmerman is innocent. Do facts matter to you? Or do you just want to join the lynch mob?

Zimmerman is a cold blooded killer.. Zimmerman made his choice and in the end will be held accountable for his actions by God.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

[Eldorado]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch................

Zimmerman's father speaks out ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17556875

Edited March 30, 2012 by Eldorado

[eqgumby]

So your saying that everyone who gets into a fight and finds themselves losing should be allowed to kill the person they're fighting with? Ouch!

If a stranger attacks you, and has you on the ground, banging your head on the sidewalk and has already broken your nose, yes, you have the right to defend yourself.

[+and-then]

Zimmerman's dad also points out that his son said that Martin saw Zimmerman's gun and made a comment about him dying that day. If Zimmerman has police photos showing injuries to his nose or head, that, along with eyewitness accounts should clear him of murder or manslaughter charges should they be filed. There is just too much confusion about what actually happened for the rush to judgement that has occurred. It points to a very fragile situation in Race relations in this country. If our economic woes become similar to those of Greece then this added factor could make life pretty grim for a lot of us.

[H.H. Holmes]

Zimmerman's dad also points out that his son said that Martin saw Zimmerman's gun and made a comment about him dying that day. If Zimmerman has police photos showing injuries to his nose or head, that, along with eyewitness accounts should clear him of murder or manslaughter charges should they be filed. There is just too much confusion about what actually happened for the rush to judgement that has occurred. It points to a very fragile situation in Race relations in this country. If our economic woes become similar to those of Greece then this added factor could make life pretty grim for a lot of us.

I don't know why this is an issue about race relations, though. Civil Rights "leaders", like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, are all over this case trying to turn it into a rally cry against racial injustice. Not a word is said from them when a little african-american child is killed by bullets from a drive-by because we (as a society) have accepted that black-on-black crime is to be expected, but when a white-looking person is behind the trigger, then a whole upswell of outrage is evoked across the country. Ridiculous.

Like I said, people like Al Sharpton need issues like this to keep relevant in today's culture. They need to constantly evoke racial injustices from half a century ago to keep any sway over their communities. Already, Al Sharpton and other civil rights "leaders" have compared this crime to organized lynching in the first half of the 20th century.

Edited March 30, 2012 by H.H. Holmes

[+and-then]

Zimmerman is a cold blooded killer.. Zimmerman made his choice and in the end will be held accountable for his actions by God.

All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!

Toolite, how do you come to this conclusion when the facts have not been all presented secondary to an investigation?

[glorybebe]

Zimmerman's dad also points out that his son said that Martin saw Zimmerman's gun and made a comment about him dying that day. If Zimmerman has police photos showing injuries to his nose or head, that, along with eyewitness accounts should clear him of murder or manslaughter charges should they be filed. There is just too much confusion about what actually happened for the rush to judgement that has occurred. It points to a very fragile situation in Race relations in this country. If our economic woes become similar to those of Greece then this added factor could make life pretty grim for a lot of us.

And Zimmerman's dad was there? Zimmerman's story keeps changing through his family's accounts and theya re only going on what he says. What about the mortician that said Trayvon's hands did not show any trauma from an altercation? I read a witness account that said she saw Zimmerman standing up, straddling the body with the gun pointed on him. So, really, there are other accounts that point to this information as bunk. Let's let the FBI investigate so that we hopefully won't see a biased emotional filled report as we obviously are seeing -on both sides- right now.

[moonshadow60]

There have been too many cases tried in the media. Unless any of us was there, all we know is what the press has spoon fed us. Far as I know, they weren't there either, so they are as clueless as the rest of us.