[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Otharus]

At best, this thread is based on a faulty premise and after 742 pages it still remains that way.

This thread is merged and about much more than the original question whether there was a flood circa 2190 BC.

[Otharus]

... you might be skeptical of something you do not understand (genetics)

Not knowing enough about something is not the same as not understanding it.

[cormac mac airt]

This thread is merged and about much more than the original question whether there was a flood circa 2190 BC.

As if that's the only "fact" that's been touted as true concerning the OLB, in this thread. Not hardly.

Not knowing enough about something is not the same as not understanding it.

There's enough information out there now on genetics studies that if you still don't know enough then you obviously aren't understanding it.

cormac

[Abramelin]

The OLB described how some of them was expelled from Athens in ca 1550 BC and fled to India. This ties up exactly with the Avesta and Rig-Veda scriptures(Dating back to ca. 1500 BC). This also exactly the time when iron working commenced in India.

A Halbertsma - just to name one - was acquainted with the Vedas, and Buddhism.

[Otharus]

There's enough information out there now on genetics studies that if you still don't know enough then you obviously aren't understanding it.

Your reasoning is flawed.

I can know and understand the basics, but not have studied the details of the specific study that was mentioned here, simply because I have better things to do.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

A touch of Frisian humor

The pleasure of trampling underfoot.

Seen (today) in conference- and exhibition room (Frisian literature) of Tresoar, the archive in Leeuwarden that guards the OLB.

[cormac mac airt]

Your reasoning is flawed.

I can know and understand the basics, but not have studied the details of the specific study that was mentioned here, simply because I have better things to do.

Which runs contrary to what you previously said:

I just don't know enough about it to simply believe it.

So which is it? You DO know enough about it or you DON'T know enough about it? You can't have it both ways, it doesn't work that way.

The best you're going to get out of this line of thinking is you're being able to say "I don't know enough about it to have an informed opinion, one way or the other".

cormac

Edited April 17, 2012 by cormac mac airt

[Otharus]

cormac

I'm not interested in playing a language-game with you.

What I said is perfectly clear and I have better things to do.

[cormac mac airt]

I'm not interested in playing a language-game with you.

What I said is perfectly clear and I have better things to do.

What you said is as clear as mud, but so-be-it. I chalk it up to a Dutch frame of reference inadequately expressed in the English language. But it's not the first time for you and likely won't be the last.

cormac

[The Puzzler]

The OLB described how some of them was expelled from Athens in ca 1550 BC and fled to India. This ties up exactly with the Avesta and Rig-Veda scriptures(Dating back to ca. 1500 BC). This also exactly the time when iron working commenced in India.

Hi, yes, Alewyn in his book, ties them in too.

[The Puzzler]

Sorry, back later.

Edited April 17, 2012 by The Puzzler

[kdog]

First off,I apologize for posting without reading the entire thread.

The great flood,or deluge or what ever you want to call it.

There have been many new discoveries pointing to this as it could have really happened.

Quote"

Around 13,000 years ago,an abrupt change in climate happened.

Scientists say they have found the trigger of a sharp cooling 13,000 years ago that plunged Europe into a mini ice age."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/31/us-climate-cooling-flood-idUSTRE62U44D20100331

Now stay with me on this.

They are saying that maybe a comet exploded 13,000 years ago here on the planet.

New scientific findings suggest that a large comet may have exploded over North America 12,900 years ago, explaining riddles that scientists have wrestled with for decades, including an abrupt cooling of much of the planet and the extinction of large mammals.

http://phys.org/news106410997.html

This is all pointing,imo,towards some truth to that great flood and the destruction of an advanced civilization and the rise of a new civilization.

[Abramelin]

I don't blame you for not reading this gigantic thread, Kdog.

But let me tell you: the disaster the Oera Linda Book talks about happened at 2194 BC, and not anywhere near the end of the last ice age.

If you want to read about a country that got REALLY destroyed and drowned long ago ( around 6150 BC ), read the thread about "Doggerland": http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179840&st=765

No Atlantis stories and crazy 'channeled' fantasies there, it's the real thing.

.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Abramelin

[kdog]

I don't blame you for not reading this gigantic thread, Kdog.

But let me tell you: the disaster the Oera Linda Book talks about happened at 2194 BC, and not anywhere near the end of the last ice age.

If you want to read about a country that got REALLY destroyed and drowned long ago ( around 6150 BC ), read the thread about "Doggerland": http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179840&st=765

No Atlantis stories and crazy 'channeled' fantasies there, it's the real thing.

.

Thank you for that,I will read it.

But ,for some reason I feel I must add this,from Australia,an Aboriginal folklord....The frog opened his sleepy eyes, his big body quivered, his face relaxed, and, at last, he burst into a laugh that sounded like rolling thunder. The water poured from his mouth in a flood. It filled the deepest rivers and covered the land. Only the highest mountain peaks were visible, like islands in the sea. Many men and animals were drowned.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aus/mla/mla09.htm

[Otharus]

No Atlantis stories and crazy 'channeled' fantasies there, it's the real thing.

Are you suggesting that the OLB is a "crazy 'channeled' fantasy", or was this a reference to your book about it by Overwijn?

[Otharus]

But, for some reason I feel I must add this, from Australia, an Aboriginal folklord....

The frog opened his sleepy eyes,

his big body quivered,

his face relaxed,

and, at last,

he burst into a laugh that sounded like rolling thunder.

The water poured from his mouth in a flood.

It filled the deepest rivers and covered the land.

Only the highest mountain peaks were visible,

like islands in the sea.

Many men and animals were drowned.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aus/mla/mla09.htm

That's beautiful, Kdog.

Welcome to the threat.

[Otharus]

No Atlantis stories and crazy 'channeled' fantasies there, it's the real thing.

LOL

IF the OLB would 'merely' be a human fantasy,

it would not be less spectacular,

than if it were authentic.

[Otharus]

What you said is as clear as mud

To me the quality of people who understand me is more important than the quantity, so don't bother.

[Abramelin]

Are you suggesting that the OLB is a "crazy 'channeled' fantasy", or was this a reference to your book about it by Overwijn?

This was a reference to what one regularly reads about Atlantis. The OLB is not about Atlantis, and as far as I know, not a 'channeled' manuscript either.

I must add that yes, many think that Doggerland was the "Aldland" of the OLB, but as I have shown here, that can not be true.

That for the simple fact that Aldland with its Finda inhabitants was too far away for the Fryans to cause the Fryans any trouble. Doggerland was connected to the European mainland, so it was in fact very close to the Fryans.

From the OLB:

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith; hja wêron thus fêr-of, thêrvmbe nêdon wi âk nên orloch.

In early times almost all of Finda's people lived together in their homeland, called Aldland, which is now under the sea. They were thus far away and therefore we did not need to go to war.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ah

.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

From the OLB:

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith; hja wêron thus fêr-of, thêrvmbe nêdon wi âk nên orloch.

In early times almost all of Finda's people lived together in their homeland, called Aldland, which is now under the sea. They were thus far away and therefore we did not need to go to war.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ah

According to the OLB, this is what was written on the walls of citadels in the 6th century BC.

According to the OLB, Aldland sank ca 22nd century BC.

So the era that the fragment describes was already 16 centuries passed (past), when it was copied from the citadel-walls.

Even if one takes the OLB seriously (if the manuscript was indeed preserved through many generations of the Over de Linden family), one should still be skeptical about the info in contains.

What I try to say is, that even if it's authentic, its information doesn't all have to be strict historical facts.

[Abramelin]

Are you suggesting that the OLB is a "crazy 'channeled' fantasy", or was this a reference to your book about it by Overwijn?

Btw, about Overwijn's book: he based a lot of his interpretations on Blavatsky (and also Velikovsky), but sometimes he gave 'interesting' etymologies for names and words in the OLB. Most often he used Celtic languages for that purpose.

[Abramelin]

According to the OLB, this is what was written on the walls of citadels in the 6th century BC.

According to the OLB, Aldland sank ca 22nd century BC.

So the era that the fragment describes was already 16 centuries passed (past), when it was copied from the citadel-walls.

Even if one takes the OLB seriously (if the manuscript was indeed preserved through many generations of the Over de Linden family), one should still be skeptical about the info in contains.

What I try to say is, that even if it's authentic, its information doesn't all have to be strict historical facts.

Are you suggesting that the submergence of Aldland could in fact be about the submergence of Doggerland, 8150 BP, which means some 4000 years earlier?

All they have found untill now on the bottom of the North Sea is remains of hunter-gatherers, and nothing remotely similar to what is described in the OLB.

[Otharus]

Are you suggesting that the submergence of Aldland could in fact be about the submergence of Doggerland, 8150 BP, which means some 4000 years earlier?

No, I don't think so myself, as I don't think that's where Inka would have went to search for remains.

The Fryans will have known the sea between Brittain an Scandinavia pretty well.

I think some of the information in OLB about Aldland is somehow contradicting, which is not surprising if the event was already that old.

Just think about how much we know of our own first Millennium AD!

Hardly anything!!!

The existing theories about that era also highly contradict eachother.

~ ~ ~

My personal interest in the OLB has never been so much about the big flood or Aldland. It's more the language and ethical values (psychology) that I'm interested in.

[Abramelin]

No, I don't think so myself, as I don't think that's where Inka would have went to search for remains.

The Fryans will have known the sea between Brittain an Scandinavia pretty well.

I think some of the information in OLB about Aldland is somehow contradicting, which is not surprising if the event was already that old.

Just think about how much we know of our own first Millennium AD!

Hardly anything!!!

The existing theories about that era also highly contradict eachother.

~ ~ ~

My personal interest in the OLB has never been so much about the big flood or Aldland. It's more the language and ethical values (psychology) that I'm interested in.

Well, I think the whole Aldland thing is kind of important. It is said it was the homeland of the Findas, who were a Mongolian looking people according to the OLB, it was called 'Atland' by the sailors who regularly visited it, it was far from Fryan territory, and if the Middle Sea is indeed the Mediterranean in that part of the narrative and not the Frisian Middle Sea then Inka went looking for remnants of Aldland in the Atlantic.

On the other hand, from what the OLB tells us about the Finda (see also the story about the Punjab and Kashmir), these Finda originated somewhere near the Himalayas according to their own beliefs.

I would like to know where this 'Aldland' was located, because it is weird nothing else is known apart from it being inhabited by the Finda. The sailors regularly visited it, and even had their own name for it. And then.... nada, nothing.

To me it looks like someone didn't want to burn his fingers by suppyling more info concerning this Aldland.

[Otharus]

LÉDLIK - LÉDLIKER - LÉDLIKST

(ugly - uglier - ugliest)

In a future publication I will list some of Jensma's most significant errors, not in order to blame him, but to plead for a new, deeper investigation.

Until then, I will post here whatever I find and consider mentionworthy.

This post is about his comment on the word "LÉDLIK", that appears three times in the OLB.

First the three fragments, with Sandbach's (slightly corrected) translation:

[096/16]

MEN AL WÉRE HJU LÉDLIK THACH SKOLDE HJU VS DJÚRA WÉSA

[sandbach p.133]

But even if she had been ugly, she would still have been dear to us

[157/18]

NÉI DAM HJARA ÔNTHLITA THÉR BRUN BI WÉR

ALSA WRDON HJA THESTO LÉDLIKER THÉR THRVCH

[sandbach p.213]

but as their faces remained brown,

they were only the more ugly

[207/22]

THA SKÉNNESTE WRDON HALDA VMBE VPPET LÁND TO BILÍWANE

ÀND THA LÉDLIKSTA ÀND SWARTSTE WRDON AN BORD HALDEN

VMBE VPPA THA BENKA TO ROJANDE

[sandbach p.249]

The handsomest were retained ashore,

and the ugly and black [ugliest and blackest] were kept on board ship

as rowers [=> to row on the benches]

~

Now from Jensma's translation (2006), on p.263 (OLB p.96), in footnote:

"RH oneig lethlik, ledlik (=tamelijk, redelijk, nogal)"

translation:

"based on Richthofen's dictionary, improperly used, lethlik, ledlik (= rather, reasonably, quite)"

~

But here is what the three Oldfrisian dictionaries (that were available) say:

Wiarda (1786):

Leedlyk - heslich, böse (= ugly, evil)

Hettema (1832):

Leedlijk, lelk - leelijk (= ugly)

Richthofen (1840):

Lethlik, ledlik - leidig, leidhaft (= unpleasant, tiresome, vexatious, annoying; ?)

And even a Dutch etymological dictionary from 1911 (Pluim) already gave that the Dutch word "lelijk" (ugly) is derived from "leed-lijk" (grief-, pain-, sorrow-like).

~

So why was Jensma making things more complicated than they are?!