Question for Believers

[morrowcosom]

I believe there are intelligent forces out there. But to label them ghost,alien,etc.. I will not do.

A paranormal phenomenon being credible would depend on the mind perceiving it.

Being that is beyond scientific explanation, all you will have is personal experience in the paranormal field, and never any proof in which most need to believe. Some people don't experience anything paranormal in their life.

From a non-believer, but one open to experience: You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Experiencing paranormal phenomenon is all about how an individual perceives reality. If some one's mind perceives a paranormal event, no matter what the mental state, then the event is real to the person and cannot be disproved.

Example: If you say "I smell bacon" and I do not smell it, I cannot prove that you do not smell bacon, even if no bacon is around. I cannot disprove your perception of reality.

Thinking needs to go beyond, "if something is real, I should perceive it the same way." The brain itself is too complex to apply that logic to.

[G3N0M3]

I believe "telekinesis" is impossible, unless the Earth had a much stronger EM field and we had evolved to be able to manipulate the EM fields of objects to create telekinetic effects. Otherwise perhaps when the Earth was younger and it's EM field was stronger perhaps we learned to control the EM fields of objects through Verbal-Cymatics, ie. using all our vocal cords in conjunction to be able to create a system of structure through sound waves.

"Pyrokinesis" is also on the chopping block unless we would include "Reiki" as inhibiting the heat flow within someone to help their body heal itself. Otherwise we can control our inner body temperature which in turn would create the "illusion" of having control over heat. (I believe that is where this whole concept was derived from).

"Big-foot" could only be seen as real if we thought of it as being a "them", a community, an endangered species which would include "Yeti" which would be the "Polar Bear" of the otherwise "Brown Bear" concept of the normally "observed" Big-Foot. Just as our species killed off all the "cave-men" (Cro-Magnon), most likely we had hunted this other specied to near extinction and now they have hidden themselves away from "hairless apes" as to not be extinguished. You could imagine, if you know anything about evolution, that there was not "one kind of bi-pedal creature". There had to of been many kinds of bi-pedal creatures which our "superior DNA" had arrived from.

"Werewolves" would be along the same line as Big-foot, other than the cultural stigma of a man turning into a werewolf on a full moon, I believe that they would exist in the same category as big-foot. We could also throw in Aztec "Jaguar Warriors" in the pot too... A man shape-shifting into a wolf, werewolf, jaguar, or werejaguar is not real...

"Minotaur" and other "Human/Creature" myths could all be included in this concept, something I will describe further in my beliefs.

Alternatively I also believe in guided evolution, so we'll call these attempts at creating the "perfect species" on Earth by mixing DNA with our Cro-Magnon ancestors with other species which had developed on Earth to create we'll say for entertainment sake, a work-force or army. So the DNA was mixed with two large, strong animals which we will start with as being "Big-foot" a Human and bear hybrid. Then secondly a Human Cow/Bull hybrid which dates back in both Mythical history and furthermore as other religious cultures. No doubt they had experimented with all forms of creatures with people as depicted throughout time, all which were then worshiped as gods. For example, one of the oldest religions in all recorded history happens to have a different animal head for each god, all with bodies of a human ie. Egyptians.

[Judeaous]

Orangepeacful, when a psychic is standing on the ground of where a murdered body is buried, and informs the police

Who hired them that it's there, and they are right.... Do you

Believe it was a lucky guess?? When you look at a ghost

Photo like lord Cumbremere, ...(or some of my own... (had to throw that in.... ). Do you believe it's just a coincidence ?? "Dust," ....""""PERIEDOLLIA""". ? It's common sense.... If it looks smells and tastes like the supernatural, it probably is, as well as the opposite. The problem... To many of us "believers" as you call us, are way out there to take serious, and many are liars. I think every non believer on this site... Deep down.... Knows science has some work to do.,. Because the supernatural is real.. To say every diviner out there from the beginning of time is a fraud is.... "not scientifically reasonable"....

[vitruvian12]

Orangepeacful, when a psychic is standing on the ground of where a murdered body is buried, and informs the police

Who hired them that it's there, and they are right.... Do you

Believe it was a lucky guess?? When you look at a ghost

Photo like lord Cumbremere, ...(or some of my own... (had to throw that in.... ). Do you believe it's just a coincidence ?? "Dust," ....""""PERIEDOLLIA""". ? It's common sense.... If it looks smells and tastes like the supernatural, it probably is, as well as the opposite. The problem... To many of us "believers" as you call us, are way out there to take serious, and many are liars. I think every non believer on this site... Deep down.... Knows science has some work to do.,. Because the supernatural is real.. To say every diviner out there from the beginning of time is a fraud is.... "not scientifically reasonable"....

Isnt it more likely that the psychic is the murderer than that they have super powers? Thats a prime example of a "believer" ignoring a simple real world explanation and opting for an unproven fantastic one instead. Is that just an example you dreamt up or do you have an actual instance of that happening you can cite?

Im sure youll get no arguments from anyone in regards to science having work to do, Ive never heard any scientist claim, "we know it all", But that doesnt mean you can just start filling in the blanks with whatever suits your fancy.

As for your pictures, I dont believe they show anything out of the ordinary, nor do I think youre dishonest. I do think your desire to see something that is occurring in your own mind. I think thats not news to you given your open and much posted about hatred of psychology and psychologists.

Edited April 17, 2012 by vitruvian12

[Ninhursag]

I Believe In Everything Except Leprechauns, Fairies, Warevolves And Vampires .. Oh And Nessie ..

[VonMagnum]

A very good question! I am definitely a believer in the paranormal but there are quite a few things that I don't find credible. One such phenomena is orbs. The reason is that they can be disproved in too many ways to be considered a reliable source of paranormal evidence.

Being an advanced amateur photographer, I've proven a LOT of "orb images" to be nothing more than internal lens reflections from a bright light source in the picture or just outside the frame of it. I've got quite a few photos that show more interesting things going on than "orbs" (one looks like an orange transparent space station floating in the corner of the photo with comet Hale-Bopp in the center of the photo. it was quite by accident, but it's a zoom lens and the porch light in the bottom corner opposite it is clearly the source of the reflection which is actually inside the lens but appears in the night sky to the left of Hale-Bopp which I was photographing at the time. It looks like a ghostly space station, though and it's not 'faked' in Photoshop or anything else. I've posted a link to it elsewhere in orb threads on here as examples.

However, the reason I disprove them so much is that I did experience seeing something that looked like glowing orbs in my bedroom on two nights in a row BEFORE I went to sleep. Both times they flew across the room and the first time one flew right up in front of my face. It looked like a little glowing shape in the light, almost like a person and then darted off through the wall. I wasn't "on" anything or drinking. It happened again the 2nd night (one orb and it ignore me) and I never saw one again. But this tells me that just because MOST cases are frauds or mistaken/misidentified phenomena (usually ignorance on camera lens flare phenomena), that doesn't mean it ALL is. Mythology got ideas of "pixies" from somewhere, whether it was swamp gas, something outside our normal vision capability that somehow enters into it once in awhile or a side effect of this all being a computer simulation like the movie The Matrix, you can't really KNOW for sure. We're not born with instruction manuals and our understanding of the universe is quite limited. People, especially scientists, who think they know everything and can explain EVERYTHING and come on here telling people how stupid they are to believe they saw paranormal phenomena or ghosts or UFOs, etc. are reacting out of pride and arrogance and I often wonder what their true motives are seeing they often seem to be trying to convince themselves as much as anyone else that said given person MUST be mentally ill because there aren't any such thing as ghosts!

In any case, to answer the original poster's question, I'd say I don't believe in any of it or disbelieve in any of it and that's simply because I cannot trust my own "senses" here. I know from our own computer simulations that ANY of this COULD POSSIBLY (within our own limited knowledge of physics even) be FAKED through the Brain In A Vat/Matrix/13th Floor concept. And if you can't truly 100% trust reality, how the heck can you judge it or anything strange that happens in it? We see a very limited range of electromagnetic radiation. String Theory posits additional dimensions, possibly even additional spacial dimensions (possibly being that inhabit those that to them we are like the idea of "Flat World" to us). All this judgmental crap comes from a need to solidify our own rational universes in our own minds. If one doesn't want to believe there is anything else out there, they will try to convince everyone else the same. I don't play those games. If I can find a rational explanation for something, I prefer it. But if there is no rational explanation, I don't deny other possibilities (unlike some) because I know I don't know everything there is to know about this Universe and our place in it, let alone what happens after death, etc.

[orangepeaceful79]

Orangepeacful, when a psychic is standing on the ground of where a murdered body is buried, and informs the police

Who hired them that it's there, and they are right.... Do you

Believe it was a lucky guess?? When you look at a ghost

Photo like lord Cumbremere, ...(or some of my own... (had to throw that in.... ). Do you believe it's just a coincidence ?? "Dust," ....""""PERIEDOLLIA""". ? It's common sense.... If it looks smells and tastes like the supernatural, it probably is, as well as the opposite. The problem... To many of us "believers" as you call us, are way out there to take serious, and many are liars. I think every non believer on this site... Deep down.... Knows science has some work to do.,. Because the supernatural is real.. To say every diviner out there from the beginning of time is a fraud is.... "not scientifically reasonable"....

Hey judeaous, long time no see! Actually you may be surprised to know that I started this thread out of genuine curiosity. I realized that I had this tendency to lump all believers together, when that probably wasn't fair. I wanted to see if believers were discriminating between phenomenon and why. I didn't start the thread to debate anyone's beliefs, justto learn about them.

Thanks for posting though.

[The Chez]

For me it has to be vampires, vampyrs or however you like to spell it lol. The idea of a walking, blood sucking corpse really has no credability to me at all. It's simply stupid, it's impossible. Now I am NOT discounting the posibility of vampiric SPIRITS and DEMONS from other realms that seek to drain the life force from living beings, since I've had something similar happen to me, but I think that was a 'shadow person' as opposed to anything else now.

The whole vampire legend comes from some guy called Vlad the Impaler who murdered people and drank their blood. This is about as far as it goes. The idea that a corpse can become 'vampiric' after death and rise every night to drink the blood of the living is nothing par a fairy tale which was sometimes evoked to give disliked people a non dignified funeral, such as being buried with a steak shoved through their chest and in non consecrated ground, grown over the years to resemble a very ancient oak of fiction, and nothing more than fiction.

[coldethyl]

I more on the skeptic side of the fence but I've decided that I don't believe in reality anymore.

Too complicated and salty.

[orangepeaceful79]

I more on the skeptic side of the fence but I've decided that I don't believe in reality anymore.

Too complicated and salty.

http://memegenerator.net/instance/19096555

[coldethyl]

http://memegenerator.net/instance/19096555

Dude, I'll be stuck on that for hours! LOL!

[orangepeaceful79]

Dude, I'll be stuck on that for hours! LOL!

Nothing like a lil Homer to bring out the funnies.

[Judeaous]

Vampires are very real!! .... Till we leave the movie theatre that is......   My boss is a vampire!!  (drains out my life blood paycheck to paycheck).....  Did someone say Vlad the Impaler!!  He would eat his dinner while everyone else lost there lunch, watching multiple impalings..... How he fits in to 

Vampirism is dead and buried in the mind of Bram Stoker.

Orangepeacful and Vituroven,  

Hope you guys are well!!  My apologies for delayed or lack of response in past threads. (new work hours)..., 

Any way....  Who are these shadow people???   Lol, are they from Mars or something??  Then ya got your big-footers, your nessies, and a whole slew of others lumped in to the believer category......   ""and in this corner we have....  "Science", with 500 bachelor

Degrees....  ""To dispel the supernatural"".   On the other side we have.... ""judeaous"" self proclaimed ghost pic. Taker!!! And standing  with him.....  Beavis & Butthead!!!  Oy Gavult!!  

I'm not complaining, as I enjoy the company of a good weirdo....  I'm weird too.  There is s point I'm making here.....  

[wittyusernamefailed]

Well I am a Christian, so that brings in a fair amount of "belief baggage;" but I also am completely aware that I may end up dying going through w/e passes for light at the end, and being told by Lord Krishna that due to bad karma I am being reincarnated as a rat.(or any other infinite amount of possibilities). But besides that I tend to be open to any idea, but "believe" nothing, until it is either proven, or hits me in the freaking face.

[coldethyl]

Any time you put 'believers only' or 'skeptics only' on the topic title, you're just asking for trouble imo.

Know what this picture is from and you need help.

lol

edited to change the name of pic so ppl couldn't cheat. sheesh.

Edited April 24, 2012 by coldethyl

[orangepeaceful79]

Any time you put 'believers only' or 'skeptics only' on the topic title, you're just asking for trouble imo.

Know what this picture is from and you need help.

lol

edited to change the name of pic so ppl couldn't cheat. sheesh.

No idea what the pic is - is she happy? Did someone just buy her a pony? Thats awesome! I love ponies.

[nyuk]

Any time you put 'believers only' or 'skeptics only' on the topic title, you're just asking for trouble imo.

Know what this picture is from and you need help.

lol

edited to change the name of pic so ppl couldn't cheat. sheesh.

Oh she looks really happy doesnt she.

I dont think someone bought her a pony (sorry orangepeaceful although i think it would be so cute if they had)

I reckon she just got a new hoover or cooker/frying pan or some other household item.

Perhaps her hubby bought it for her birthday or somethin

[Ecto76]

I've been investigating for almost 15 years. I have had multiple "Paranormal" experiences. I know that unexplained events can happen.

Perhaps the terminology is being used all wrong. Honestly, I blame a lot of reality TV and Hollywood for putting the wrong thing in people's heads. I like to just label things as a phenomena you can't explain. Maybe there is a natural reason for them but no one has discovered those reasons yet.

Can I add another thought to this?

A handful of people say this has been proven, some say this has been unproven... why can't we get some scientists in a haunted location call it their laboratory and freakin' help investigators figure crap out instead of labeling everything "Paranormal".

[VonMagnum]

I think some people put "believers only" or "skeptics only" in their titles because they're not interested in hearing debunking this nonsense responses on the one hand or crazed wild-eyed fantasy on the other (depending on your point of view, of course) and sadly, that is exactly what you get on these forums in most of these threads. Those that are caught in the middle that look for logical explanations yet are willing to consider the possibility of paranormal activity have to put up with both extremes. And they ARE extreme because let's face it, there are some on here that wouldn't consider the possibility of paranormal if it was staring them right in the face and there are some that think everything is paranormal activity from lens reflections to lightning bolts meaning the 'gods are angry'.

Personally, I find the believers to be far more tolerant (as in "maybe" vs "get medical help now") than the skeptics, who are usually just downright nasty in their smugness that they know everything about everything. And to me tolerant ignorance is preferable to obnoxious poncy behavior any day of the week.

[Ecto76]

@ Vonmagnum... lmao!

Some things I don't like to see in the forums is when people post their experiences, stories, evidence etc; it is always dismissed without considering that these people did investigate every aspect before posting in the forum. Perhaps some of them did try to recreate methods and disprove them first. People just always assume first without asking. Not for nothing, but I have said this over and over to skeptics. Skeptics and Investigators have something in common. We're all looking for proof. Please, try and not use the word "debunk" its not really a word. It was a term created by the tv show Ghost Hunters. The proper term is disprove.

Not everyone is a liar or makes things up. Some people tell the truth about their experiences and evidence. There's no such thing as Paranormal Police who always try and dismiss it all just because they refuse to believe in it. Skeptics will always be skeptics until they experience it for themselves. To be frank, there will be those will never experience it because they are not open minded.

[orangepeaceful79]

I think some people put "believers only" or "skeptics only" in their titles because they're not interested in hearing debunking this nonsense responses on the one hand or crazed wild-eyed fantasy on the other (depending on your point of view, of course) and sadly, that is exactly what you get on these forums in most of these threads. Those that are caught in the middle that look for logical explanations yet are willing to consider the possibility of paranormal activity have to put up with both extremes. And they ARE extreme because let's face it, there are some on here that wouldn't consider the possibility of paranormal if it was staring them right in the face and there are some that think everything is paranormal activity from lens reflections to lightning bolts meaning the 'gods are angry'.

Personally, I find the believers to be far more tolerant (as in "maybe" vs "get medical help now") than the skeptics, who are usually just downright nasty in their smugness that they know everything about everything. And to me tolerant ignorance is preferable to obnoxious poncy behavior any day of the week.

My main purpose for creating this thread was for my own information. I am a skeptic, but I try to understand people where they are. I might not agree, but I find it helpful to know what drives people and their beliefs.

It helps me be more civil when discussing things when I think about the person as a person with reasons that propel them, rather than just faceless logic opponents on the Internet.

Hope this helps.

[Ecto76]

I do it to help educate our community. I do it to help people in general. I help them with what I know thus far in my experience.

[coldethyl]

Orangepeaceful and nyuk it's from Reefer Madness and she's crazy from pot!!! OMG!!!

[orangepeaceful79]

Orangepeaceful and nyuk it's from Reefer Madness and she's crazy from pot!!! OMG!!!

Mmmmmmm..... Pot crazy....gahhhhh

[coldethyl]

Mmmmmmm..... Pot crazy....gahhhhh

Look up the movie; can you say propaganda kids?

lol