EVP and ITC

[ChrLzs]

I never said I have PROOF.

Indeed. You don't even have evidence. Which is why I reject it.

All I can say is. EVP and ITC research is well documented!

And you have failed to provide any credible research. Yet all I have asked for is a proper report on one of the claimed studies (please see below for 'Burden Of Proof' before you whine some more about me doing your research for you)..

Are we able to understand all the factors involved???? NO! So until we do. We can't produce the results like we could in a petri dish with an experiment!

Why are you focusing on just one of the many reasons that this is garbage? (Rhetorical question - if you think a petri dish is relevant, then I think it's obvious you aren't on the same page..)

The fact is that you have completely and deliberately ignored the main issues, namely Confirmation Bias, and Cherry Picking of data. It's very obvious why that is.

PROVE THE VATICAN DIDN"T DO THE STUDIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, those capitals and repeated exclamation marks certainly make your point - they just scream credibility. Anyway, thank you for verifying the inevitable - you don't understand the most basic tenet of them all - that of Burden Of Proof. You made the claim about the Catholic Church. You need to back it up, or consider it busted and withdrawn.

Look that concept up after Confirmation Bias and Cherry Picking. Then tell me again I'm the one who doesn't understand science...

To mysticeyes, welcome.

As a forensic investigator, you know exactly why the issues of controls, falsifiability and the null hypothesis (amongst others) would be of vital importance in this field. Can you outline how your own experiments have addressed those issues?

Also, of those five links, is there one you find most compelling, comprehensive? Do any of them include peer-reviewed, published studies? Do any of them include reports on studies, that show how they have addressed those issues?

[TheEVPman]

You miss the points. RESEARCH FOR YOURSELF! You haven't.

All I have done is tried to share my reults. (Science can't explain in particular disembodied voices answering questions with control words and phrases)

I given you names and writtings to look up and see what those people who have experimented found. ( You didn't)

It's that plain and simple....

Then you want to apply science to the unknown....And expect results in condition we don't know or understand!

So, again go research for yourself and investigate. If you were any kind of investigator, you would question, get what info you could. Afterwards look into what the facts are without bias... ( Find out for yourself)

BTW I was an investigator on the OKC Bombing... So, I know how to investigate and have done so.

Take care M8.

[CakeOrDeath]

EVPman, I'm sorry, now you are back tracking and trying to say, you never said there was proof or evidence. In your first post in the thread you say you've had "Amazing results" and you have contacted deceased family members of yourself and others.

Now you are saying, there's really no evidence, just some documentation out there that "WE" should research, so we can feel better about your post? 30 years at it, I'm thinking you should be the one being like "guys I've put 30 solid years in and let my show the amazing stuff I've discovered..." instead we get...."peeee nuuut burder..." Of all of your "amazing" results that's the best and most convincing snippet you could put on your site?

While fully fakeable, it would have been alot more interesting if you put something like "what year did you die.." and got like "Sept 12th 1975" or something.

I "believe" in paranormal and extra-sensory experiences, things our little brains can't fully grasp, but EVP/ITC seems like blatant BS, worse than Ouija Board stuff. I mean come on, you are using random voices to produce ...voices.

I'm sure this will turn into another "zomg the skeptics are bullies" thread, but when you come into a place where there are believers and offer them hope, you better have some proof to go along with the hope.

[orangepeaceful79]

I'm sure this will turn into another "omg the skeptics are bullies" thread, but when you come into a place where there are believers and offer them hope, you better have some proof to go along with the hope.

Here's the thing though. If EVPman is only marketing his services to believers then he doesn't need proof. Proof is just a side issue with believers. All that matters to that crowd is that whatever they are experiencing/reading about validates what they already have decided upon.

[CakeOrDeath]

Orange, I have to disagree, my father passed away suddenly, when I was still fairly "impressionable" he was young 47, at the time we were working through some life issues and finally communicating really well, then boom, dead. I was still in my later teens, if someone, older, using fairly scientific terms and quoting "vactican studies" came along offering me a chance to talk to my father I might have bit. You may say, "what's the harm" but mr EVP delivering me the "wrong" message from my father could have had significant effect on my life moving forward.

See what I mean? I wasn't a "believer" or "skeptic" just a sad kid looking for guidance/closure.

[orangepeaceful79]

Orange, I have to disagree, my father passed away suddenly, when I was still fairly "impressionable" he was young 47, at the time we were working through some life issues and finally communicating really well, then boom, dead. I was still in my later teens, if someone, older, using fairly scientific terms and quoting "vactican studies" came along offering me a chance to talk to my father I might have bit. You may say, "what's the harm" but mr EVP delivering me the "wrong" message from my father could have had significant effect on my life moving forward.

See what I mean? I wasn't a "believer" or "skeptic" just a sad kid looking for guidance/closure.

I do see what you are saying. I was referring to the "believers" - replying to the post I quoted. Trying to convince a believer with evidence is pointless because they don't need any.

For sad folks, who are impressionable like you were, I think this is where the true danger lies, as you mentioned. I am in agreement with you, there is harm. But I was speaking only about believers.

[ColoradoParanormal]

I do see what you are saying. I was referring to the "believers" - replying to the post I quoted. Trying to convince a believer with evidence is pointless because they don't need any.

For sad folks, who are impressionable like you were, I think this is where the true danger lies, as you mentioned. I am in agreement with you, there is harm. But I was speaking only about believers.

This is very true and the frightening reality we face today. There are literally thousands of "Investigators" running around in people's lives and properties making amazing claims about their loved ones communicating and giving false and dangerous advice. I've seen it, even here, where a claimant is requesting advice about strange sounds, headaches, nausea, etc. These "investigators" start making advice to seek a shaman, do more investigations, EVP sessions etc when in reality the claimant is citing direct symptoms of Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

I could go on and on.. This problem is extremely dangerous and REAL!

[CakeOrDeath]

Sorry Orange, I mis-understood your post, my mistake. I get whatcha mean about "un-convincing" someone who is already convinced. I just wanted to shed some light on why it might seem I come off as abit of an "attacker" in posts where there are claims like this. In fact, while skeptical, I consider myself a believer in the paranormal, but to me that means things that can and do occur, that aren't readily explainable using our normal senses or current scientific technology.

[orangepeaceful79]

Sorry Orange, I mis-understood your post, my mistake. I get whatcha mean about "un-convincing" someone who is already convinced. I just wanted to shed some light on why it might seem I come off as abit of an "attacker" in posts where there are claims like this. In fact, while skeptical, I consider myself a believer in the paranormal, but to me that means things that can and do occur, that aren't readily explainable using our normal senses or current scientific technology.

No worries, friend. Have a good one

[TheEVPman]

The real problem is... Are the voices who claim to our loved ones are they? Again, my experiences go back 30 yrs. So, I've seen a lot in the field. Raudives and other EVP ITC researchers have said the voices at times claim to be our loved ones on the otherside. I believe it MAY be possible that the voices are who they say they are. However what proof do we have?

In the end just voices captured on a recording. Just like the early researchers of the EVP phenomenon experienced. Nothing more...

[orangepeaceful79]

The real problem is... Are the voices who claim to our loved ones are they? Again, my experiences go back 30 yrs. So, I've seen a lot in the field. Raudives and other EVP ITC researchers have said the voices at times claim to be our loved ones on the otherside. I believe it MAY be possible that the voices are who they say they are. However what proof do we have?

In the end just voices captured on a recording. Just like the early researchers of the EVP phenomenon experienced. Nothing more...

That sounds like a more reasonable stance to me - my question is whether this is what you tell your clientele? Do you represent to them the staggering amount of uncertainty that exists with any kind of data collection involving the paranormal? It would be irresponsible, unethical even on your part to suggest otherwise. Because as you say - we just don't know.

[TheEVPman]

I've had clients tell me when they listen to a recorded voice say it was the voice of a loved one. I remind them it could be... We can't prove it is one way or the other. Only that the voices are interactive and respond at times. (Nothing More)

Folks contact me and ask me about communicating with the otherside. I explain to them, folks like Raudive and others have made claims and documented their research about making contact with loved ones on the otherside. On a personal note I'll share some of my experiences with the voices and who they claim to be. Some say they are my passed over loved ones as well. Again, we can't prove it's really who they say they are. On the other hand the voices often have inside info into events of the past, which they some times make known. Some have retained accents which seems to make them more idnetifiable.

Again, who and what creates these voices of EVP and ITCs is a big question. All I can say is I've conducted experiments as Raudive and others with like results. So, again. We only have results. Were all of the voices created from the same source??? We can't say or know. At different times with other researchers the voices have made claims to be anything from ghosts to aliens so who knows?????

We have no control over the communications or the perfect conditions in which to facilitate or establish the possible contact with the otherside. Just that it might be possible at times.

How and what equipment they choose to use.... Again a guess as to why and how... Voice recorder, ghost boxes or other ITC devices... Again we have more questions than answers. Just because it dosen't work for one person dosen't mean it may not for another. Why? Again we don't have all the answers. After all it's the paranormal.

So, all I did here was ask the question if anyone has had like results? I was attacked, in which case present some information to examine with names and some of the research. I'm a skeptic honestly. However I have done my research not only in studies, but in the practical sense of trying it myself. I would encourage others to do the same. Results may not come right away. It may take times as noted by some researchers. Like going fishing perhaps. Some times the fish bite... Other times we are left to wonder why we haven't caught anything. Again I've been at it 30 yrs. Longer than some folks have been alive. Results can and do change at times with EVP and ITCs.

Edited May 8, 2012 by TheEVPman