Al-Qaida's No. 2 KILLED!

[Babe Ruth]

Some USMC General Officer, cannot remember his name, gave a speech once long before 2001, and in that speech he defined terror and terrorism. I was fortunate enough to read the speech, for it contained language that is relevant to our situation.

He said that terror is a normal reaction to certain stimuli. Basically it is fear. It is a natural reaction to be afraid, given certain stimuli.

TerrorISM is the deliberate manipulation and exploitation of that natural reaction.

Quite simple, really, and most helpful for adult discussions.

And of course terrorISTS are people who practice said exploitation, and man alive, it seems like there are many who control the US media and government. Keeping the populace in a permanent state of fear is just about all the media and government do these days.

[RaptorBites]

Some USMC General Officer, cannot remember his name, gave a speech once long before 2001, and in that speech he defined terror and terrorism. I was fortunate enough to read the speech, for it contained language that is relevant to our situation.

He said that terror is a normal reaction to certain stimuli. Basically it is fear. It is a natural reaction to be afraid, given certain stimuli.

TerrorISM is the deliberate manipulation and exploitation of that natural reaction.

Quite simple, really, and most helpful for adult discussions.

And of course terrorISTS are people who practice said exploitation, and man alive, it seems like there are many who control the US media and government. Keeping the populace in a permanent state of fear is just about all the media and government do these days.

Have you heard Alex Jones's fear mongering podcasts?

Using your definition, Alex Jones's is a terrorist.

Watch this......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Pcw2nJaeA&feature=related

Edited September 17, 2012 by RaptorBites

[skyeagle409]

And of course terrorISTS are ...

Al-Qaeda!

[Space Commander Travis]

Al-Qaeda!

And there you have how lovely & easy it is when you can boil down the whole issue to one word there. Al Qaeadea is Terrorism, period.

[Wandering]

Gee, so Timothy McVeigh was Al-Qaeda?... I never knew.

Simple thoughts for simple minds huh Sky?

[lightly]

i just find it interesting how 'news' coverage used to refer to ANY 'hostilities' , directed against U.S. or coalition forces 'operating' in Afghanistan or Iraq , initially and for a long time after, as ... terrorists did this or terrorists did that.

( 'News' is bought from sources like U.P.I ... or offered up from 'official' sources/spokesmen from the white house , state department, or Pentagon.)

The constant use of the , terrifying, words terror and terrorism where they did not apply have reduced their validity. The words begin to ring hollow.. so, the phraseology has been altered.

The word Insurgent became popular.. but not accurate either IMO because an insurgent is a rebel rising up against some form of governmental structure. Not against invading forces or the resultant states of chaos, as in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Now, the most popular term is Militant.

Here is U.S. State Dept. list of terrorist organizations. ( wiki.. but list is from state dept.)

as we see... the designation al quaida is only used in relation to Saudi Arabia... and in the RENAMED Al-Qaeda Kurdish Battalions (IRAQ) (formerly Ansar al-Islam) (Iraqi Kurdistan) .. and the RENAMED (al-Qaida in Iraq) (formerly Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad. ( renamed by whom? )

◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊ı◊

Groups designated as Foreign Terrorist Organizations

List is current as of January 19, 2010,[1] organized by region and country of origin:

Middle East

Gaza and the West Bank

Abu Nidal Organization (ANO) (International, Palestinian)

Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (Palestinian)

Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement) (Palestinian)

Army of Islam (Palestinian)[2]

Islamic Jihad Group (Palestinian)

Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) (Palestinian)

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) (Palestinian)

PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC) (Palestinian)

Iraq

Al-Qaeda Kurdish Battalions (formerly Ansar al-Islam) (Iraqi Kurdistan)

Kata'ib Hezbollah (Iraq)

Kongra-Gel (formerly Kurdistan Workers' Party) (KGK, formerly PKK, KADEK, Kongra-Gel) (Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria)

Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR) (al-Qaida in Iraq) (formerly Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad, JTJ, al-Zarqawi Network) (Iraq)

Lebanon

Asbat an-Ansar (Lebanon)

Hezbollah (Party of God) (Lebanon)

Israel

Kahane Chai (Kach) (Israel)

Iran

Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK) (Iran)

Jundallah (People's Resistance Movement of Iran, or PRMI) (Iran)[3]

Saudi Arabia

al-Qa’ida (Global)

al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)

al-Qa’ida in the Islamic Maghreb (formerly GSPC) (The Maghreb)

[edit]Asia

Afghanistan

Haqqani network[4]

Bangladesh

Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami (HUJI- (Bangladesh)

Sri Lanka

Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) (Sri Lanka)

India

Indian Mujahideen (IM) (India)[5]

Japan

Aum Shinrikyo (Japan)

Pakistan

Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) (Pakistan)

Jaish-e-Mohammed (Army of Mohammed) (JEM) (Pakistan)

Lashkar-e Tayyiba (Army of the Righteous) (LET) (Muridke, Pakistan)

Lashkar i Jhangvi (Pakistan)

Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) (Pakistan)

South East Asia

Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI) (Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Singapore)

Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG) (Philippines)

Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army (CPP/NPA) (Philippines)

Uzbekistan

Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) (Uzbekistan)

[edit]Africa

Al-Shabaab (Somalia)

Algeria

Armed Islamic Group (GIA) (Algeria)

Egypt

Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Egypt)

Libya

Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) (Libya)

Lord's Resistance Army (Uganda)

Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (MICG) (Morocco)

[edit]Europe

United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland

Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA) (United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland)

Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA) (United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland)

Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) (United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland)

Ulster Defence Association (UDA) (United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland)

Greece

Revolutionary Organization 17 November (Greece)

Revolutionary Struggle (Greece)

Turkey

Revolutionary People's Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C) (Turkey)

Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) (Turkey)

Spain

Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (Basque Fatherland and Liberty) (ETA) (Spain, France)

[edit]South America

Colombia

National Liberation Army (ELN) (Colombia)

Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) (Colombia)

United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC) (Colombia)

Peru

Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso, SL) (Peru)

[edit]

[skyeagle409]

And there you have how lovely & easy it is when you can boil down the whole issue to one word there. Al Qaeadea is Terrorism, period.

After all, al-Qaeda declared war on the United States and commited terrorist acts that resulted in the "War on Terror." In other words, al-Qaeda got want it wanted and now, it's reaping what it had sown.

[skyeagle409]

Gee, so Timothy McVeigh was Al-Qaeda?... I never knew.

Simple thoughts for simple minds huh Sky?

Remember, Timothy McVeigh has been dealt with already.

[skyeagle409]

i just find it interesting how 'news' coverage used to refer to ANY 'hostilities' , directed against U.S. or coalition forces 'operating' in Afghanistan or Iraq , initially and for a long time after, as ... terrorists did this or terrorists did that.

Let's look at this news article.

Taliban Attack Afghanistan US-British Base, Kill 2 US Marines; Prince Harry Safe

Taliban fighters attacked the coalition base at Camp Bastion-Camp Leatherneck in Helmand Province just before midnight local time with small-arms fire and rocket attacks, according to U.S. officials.

http://abcnews.go.co...73#.UFihvSqF_vg

The news article said: "Taliban," not terrorist.

How many innocent civilians were killed when al-Qaeda bombed our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania?

1998 United States embassy bombings

In Nairobi, approximately 212 people were killed, and an estimated 4,000 wounded; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings

Not what you would call, "Freedom Fighters" or "militants."

Edited September 18, 2012 by skyeagle409

[lightly]

Yes skyeagle, the four day old artcle does call them Taliban and not terrorists. That does not negate my simple point that, the words terror, terrorist, and terrorism , as i just said, USED TO be overused.... and purposely so.

Not so much anymore because it was starting to sound ridiculous.

[skyeagle409]

Yes skyeagle, the four day old artcle does call them Taliban and not terrorists. That does not negate my simple point that, the words terror, terrorist, and terrorism , as i just said, USED TO be overused.... and purposely so.

Not so much anymore because it was starting to sound ridiculous.

Al-Qaeda is not considered a group of "militants," but a terrorist group, and our main focus is on al-Qaeda. After all, al-Qaeda was the terrorist group that attacked the United States using aircraft as missiles and did so after declaring war on the United States, so it is ludicrous to think that we were just going sit back and take those attacks on the chin and wait for the next punch.

We didn't go to war when al-Qaeda bombed out embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and we didn't go to war when al-Qaeda attacked the USS Cole, and we didn't go to war when al-Qaeda bombed WTC1 in 1993, however, the 9/11 terrorist attack was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Edited September 18, 2012 by skyeagle409

[lightly]

... lol you make it sound like one person named Al Qaida .. did all of those things.

Where exactly would you have launched a war against "Al Qaida" ?

We supposedly overtook the entire country of Afghanistan to find bin Laden.... with no proof whatsoever that he was actually there !!!

Then we overtook Iraq... for uh.... for what reason exactly again?

Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with any of the events you just listed.

as dubya so eloquently stated, "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Edited September 19, 2012 by lightly

[skyeagle409]

... lol you make it sound like one person named Al Qaida .. did all of those things.

There's a bit more than that, which is why the 'War on Terror' has gone global.

Where exactly would you have launched a war against "Al Qaida" ?

Worldwide! The public is largely unaware of the true magnitude of the "War on Terror" since it mostly conducted in secrecy and involves many countries, not just a few.

We supposedly overtook the entire country of Afghanistan to find bin Laden.... with no proof whatsoever that he was actually there !!!

Osama bin Laden was definitely there in Afghanistan.

Sudan and return to Afghanistan

Due to the increasing pressure on Sudan from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the United States, bin Laden was permitted to leave for a country of his choice. He chose to return to Jalalabad, Afghanistan aboard a chartered flight on May 18, 1996 and there forged a close relationship with Mullah Mohammed Omar. Despite his ambitions and organizational skills, when bin Laden left Sudan, he and his organization were significantly weakened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

Then we overtook Iraq... for uh.... for what reason exactly again?

Actually, to get Saddam Hussein because he remained a menace to the region. Many people were unaware of Saddam's true intentions prior to the first Gulf War. Despite the warnings from the United States to Saudi Arabia of the danger from Saddam, Saudi Arabia still refused to allow our troops on its land, that is, until Saudi Arabia was shown satellite photos where Saddam's troops were amassing, which soon changed their tune and you have to learn the history of events that led up to first Gulf War.

To sum it up, it was no secret to us that Saddam Hussein intented to take over the Persian Gulf and Kuwait was just a pit stop.

Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with any of the events you just listed.

Saddam remained a menace in the Middle East and remember, Saddam, had no intention of using his super gun for duck hunting and his warnings to Gulf nations remained etched in their minds, especially after his war on Iran and the bombing of the oil rigs of the U.A. E.

..."There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Looking back in history, Hitler fooled Great Britain, France and the Soviet Union, and after the invasions of France, and the Soviet Union, and the bombing of Great Britain, you can believe that was their wakeup call.

With an al-Qaeda declaration of war against the United States currently on the books and the danger of nukes falling into the wrong hands, turning our backs on al-Qaeda isn't an option. Al-Qaeda bombed WTC1 in 1993 and we did not go to war, but the second time around was a wakeup call and we paid a heavy price for complacency.

[Space Commander Travis]

Actually, to get Saddam Hussein because he remained a menace to the region. Many people were unaware of Saddam's true intentions prior to the first Gulf War.

Would that have been when he was an ally because he was fighting the Mad Mullahs of Iran?

[skyeagle409]

Would that have been when he was an ally because he was fighting the Mad Mullahs of Iran?

It was the result of financial mess that Iraq found itself in after the Iran/Iraq war. The Gulf states loaned Saddam Hussein billions of dollars to support his war effort against Iran, but after the war, Saddam had the audacity to warn the Gulf states to either forgive Iraq's debts of billions of dollars, or else (Invasion of the Gulf states by Iraq).

Iran became a threat to the Gulf states, and fear is why those Gulf states supplied Iraq with billions of dollars in aid. The United States realized the danger that Iran posed to the Gulf region and supported Iraq's efforts as well, but the United States was not the only country supporting Iraq with aid because there were a number of countries outside the Persian Gulf supporting Iraq as well.

Now, we find ourselves in an unconventional worldwide war in many countries that involves special forces, conventional forces, and now, our enlightened intelligence services that dropped the ball prior to the 9/11 attacks.

[lightly]

Everyone knows bin Laden was in Afghanistan , at one time. Where was the proof that he was there after 9-11?

Most now agree that he was in Pakistan ever since 9-11. So .. why again... did we have to take possession of Afghanistan!?!?!?

The 'official' reasons for invading and occupying Afghanistan still make absolutely no sense to me.

it was to find bin Laden... er no,,,,, it was to save the people from the taliban.. er ..something.

[lightly]

oh.. and the Harboring terrorists line of thinking. Afghanistan was "harboring terrorists" because, the same group of people that had been trained and supplied by the 'U.S.' , who were freedom fighters when they shot at invading Russians, were suddenly "terrorists" when they shot at invading U.S. and coalition forces.

And as for Saddam being a threat to the region. Ok fine, .. but removing him from power necessitated the nearly complete destruction of Iraq's infrastructure ? The Iraqi army was a minimal foe for U.S. forces to deal with, All of the excessive collateral damage to the infrastructure and population! was overkill, to say the least. WHY???????????

NAH .. i ain't buyin any of it

*

Edited September 19, 2012 by lightly

[Space Commander Travis]

Iraq had never really realistically been in any position to be a threat to anyone since '91, with the No Fly Zones and all the rest of it. If there had been any truth to the WMD allegation, a case might almost be argued that he may have felt that he might have needed such things since he'd been so emasculated in other ways, and with powerful countries on his borders who were at least indifferent if not downright hostile to him.

So what other justifications can people come out with?

[+Liquid Gardens]

... lol you make it sound like one person named Al Qaida .. did all of those things.

Where exactly would you have launched a war against "Al Qaida" ?

We supposedly overtook the entire country of Afghanistan to find bin Laden.... with no proof whatsoever that he was actually there !!!

Then we overtook Iraq... for uh.... for what reason exactly again?

Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with any of the events you just listed.

as dubya so eloquently stated, "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Just curious, lightly, and forgive if you've already clarified this; what would you have done as president on 9/12/2001?

[Babe Ruth]

What would you have done LG?

[skyeagle409]

Iraq had never really realistically been in any position to be a threat to anyone since '91, with the No Fly Zones and all the rest of it. If there had been any truth to the WMD allegation, a case might almost be argued that he may have felt that he might have needed such things since he'd been so emasculated in other ways, and with powerful countries on his borders who were at least indifferent if not downright hostile to him.

So what other justifications can people come out with?

Saddam's mindset would not change with his defeats and it would have been very dangerous to face away from a wounded animal. Do you remember that old B-707 at the terrorist camp in Iraq?

[skyeagle409]

Everyone knows bin Laden was in Afghanistan , at one time. Where was the proof that he was there after 9-11?

We had radio tranmissions of bin Laden, which placed him in Afghanistan.

Most now agree that he was in Pakistan ever since 9-11.

That was after he was driven out of Afghanistan, but his group remained in the country

Afghanistan’s Taliban Wish Al Qaeda Would Go Away

Many in the Taliban are sick of their longtime allies. But how do you dump a terrorist group?

"Most Taliban commanders and fighters inside Afghanistan would be only too glad to see the last of bin Laden’s men. Drone attacks and relentless pursuit by U.S. forces have reduced the foreign jihadis’ presence to small roving bands of seven to 10 Arabs and Pakistanis, mostly from the tribal areas, as well as a few from the Punjab. But those remnants continue to pose nothing but trouble for their Afghan hosts, behaving almost as if they want to antagonize everyone in sight."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/08/12/afghanistan-s-taliban-wish-al-qaeda-would-go-away.html

.

[skyeagle409]

oh.. and the Harboring terrorists line of thinking. Afghanistan was "harboring terrorists" because, the same group of people that had been trained and supplied by the 'U.S.' ,...

That doesn't mean that the CIA supported al-Qaeda in the latter years.

who were freedom fighters when they shot at invading Russians, were suddenly "terrorists" when they shot at invading U.S. and coalition forces.

On the contrary, how many from that same group are now fighting the Taliban and al-Qaeda?

The Iraqi army was a minimal foe for U.S. forces to deal with,...

But, not to the Gulf states, and where does much of the world's oil come from?

On another note.

Who’s Sabotaging Iran’s Nukes?

http://news.yahoo.com/sabotaging-iran-nukes-084500157--politics.html

[lightly]

Just curious, lightly, and forgive if you've already clarified this; what would you have done as president on 9/12/2001?

I don't know Liquid Gardens. INVESTIGATION comes to mind . Another thing that bugs me is... how was it possible to positively identify 19 Involved 'skyjackers' on 4 different flights within 24 hours and get it 100% right? Pictures of 19 faces were on the morning after news. I don't know... it just doesn't seem plausible to me.

[lightly]

<p>

That doesn't mean that the CIA supported al-Qaeda in the latter years.

°°°°°°°°°°°°° i didn's say they did.

On the contrary, how many from that same group are now fighting the Taliban and al-Qaeda?

°°°°°°°°°°°°°° i have no idea, but i wouldn't be the least surprised if mercenary elements are fighting for whoever pays the most.

But, not to the Gulf states, and where does much of the world's oil come from?

°°°°°°°°°°°° funny how some words can say so much.. in this instance , OIL.

On another note.

Who’s Sabotaging Iran’s Nukes?

http://news.yahoo.co...--politics.html

Edited September 19, 2012 by lightly