G.Cooper encountered man-made flying saucers

[TheMacGuffin]

I agree with you Nuke_em.

The unfortunate reality is that it has devolved into a character debate, as attempted discussions with McG often do. It is an effective tactic and one which he falls back on whenever he is cornered.

Of course it is just a smoke screen that he tries to use in order to deflect away from his own mistakes and errors. Some people fall for it too.

Personally, I'm quite tired of it and I have been for a very long time now.

Look who's talking.

[booNyzarC]

Look who's talking.

Do you expect me to just quietly sit by while you engage in character assassination?

[TheMacGuffin]

And here is what Jerry Cohen said about Oberg's attacks against Cooper, James McDonald and Dr. Hynek:

Jim Oberg's original piece wasn't just about Gordon Cooper. He took swipes at Drs. J. Allen Hynek and James McDonald as well. I wrote my piece because it was impossible, both from what Jim wrote and its lack of footnoting, to be able to check certain portions of what he was saying. However, if by chance some of what he specifically said concerning Hynek and McDonald _was_ true, I did not want someone walking away from reading Jim's piece and thinking that Hynek and McDonald were all smoke and no substance regarding UFOs. This was far from the truth and one had to be aware of a number of excellent cases researched by these men, and located within the deep history of this vast topic, in order to be able to make this judgment. I did not believe Jim would have used some of the comments he did if he himself was apprised of the details I included in my rebuttal. To me this was even more important than what he was saying about Cooper.

Hynek and McDonald were both excellent scientists and researchers. It's why I wrote the 30,000 or so words he points out I included in my rebuttal; i.e. simply so readers could place Jim's comments in an accurate historical context, realize how much solid data was involved in the study of this monumental topic (i.e. UFOs) and realize how easy it would be for anyone to make some mistakes along the way. It was obvious to me, from some of Jim's comments regarding Hynek and McDonald, that Jim was lacking this important historical perspective. (Nor would one expect him to have it since this is not his main area of expertise.)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cohenufo.org%2Fobergsiterebut_7d.htm&ei=ZFaNUP_YNYim8ASSk4DIDg&usg=AFQjCNH47PSrOoSorLB_kCIuMG3mxcQp6w&sig2=icxvvczTdm765SLtqIeu5Q

[TheMacGuffin]

Do you expect me to just quietly sit by while you engage in character assassination?

Yes, you will do just that as long as the characters being assassinated oppose your "skeptical" views on UFOs.

Edited October 28, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

By the way, the 1957 Edwards UFO landing was real, and there were about 30 pictures taken of it as well as some film. James McDonald interviewed the men who took these pictures.

There was a major UFO wave in 1957, after all, although it tends to be forgotten and overlooked today.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cohenufo.org%2Fobergsiterebut_7d.htm&ei=ZFaNUP_YNYim8ASSk4DIDg&usg=AFQjCNH47PSrOoSorLB_kCIuMG3mxcQp6w&sig2=icxvvczTdm765SLtqIeu5Q

[TheMacGuffin]

Who made the UFOs that flew around Edwards Air Force Base in 1957? People like Oberg would never tell you, even if they knew. LOL

[mcrom901]

how certain are you that the aboved 'leaked' image is authentic?

Edited October 28, 2012 by mcrom901

[mcrom901]

By the way, the 1957 Edwards UFO landing was real,

was cooper there?

[TheMacGuffin]

was cooper there?

So he always said.

"In 1957, Cooper was one of an elite band of test pilots at Edwards Air Force Base in California, in charge of several advanced projects, including the installation of a precision landing system.

"I had a camera crew filming the installation when they spotted a saucer. They filmed it as it flew overhead, then hovered, extended three legs as landing gear, and slowly came down to land on a dry lake bed!

"These guys were all pro cameramen, so the picture quality was very good.

"The camera crew managed to get within 20 or 30 yards of it, filming all the time. It was a classic saucer, shiny silver and smooth, about 30 feet across. It was pretty clear it was an alien craft.

"As they approached closer it took off."

When his camera crew handed over the film, Cooper followed standard procedure and contacted Washington to report the UFO ­ and "all heck broke loose," he said.

"After a while a high-ranking officer said when the film was developed I was to put it in a pouch and send it to Washington.

"He didn't say anything about me not looking at the film. That's what I did when it came back from the lab ­ and it was all there just like the camera crew reported."

When the Air Force later started Operation Blue Book to collate UFO evidence and reports, Cooper says he mentioned the film evidence.

"But the film was never found ­ supposedly. Blue Book was strictly a cover-up anyway."

Cooper revealed he's convinced an alien craft crashed at Roswell, N. Mex., in 1947 and aliens were discovered in the wreckage.

"I had a good friend at Roswell, a fellow officer. He had to be careful about what he said. But it sure wasn't a weather balloon, like the Air Force cover story. He made it clear to me what crashed was a craft of alien origin, and members of the crew were recovered."

Why has the government kept its UFO secrets for so many years?

"It started in World War 2, when the government didn't want people to know about UFO reports in case they panicked," said Cooper. "They would have been fearful it was superior enemy technology that we had no defense against.

"Then it got worse in the Cold War for the same reason.

"So they told one untruth, they had to tell another to cover that one, then another, then another . . . it just snowballed.

"And right now I'm convinced a lot of very embarrassed government officials are sitting there in Washington trying to figure a way to bring the truth out. They know it's got to come out one day, and I'm sure it will.

"America has a right to know!"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case357.htm&usg=AFQjCNEuQj2KhT-ebsfVmPsmy0NQbZp3EQ

[Just Dave]

I agree with you Nuke_em.

The unfortunate reality is that it has devolved into a character debate, as attempted discussions with McG often do. It is an effective tactic and one which he falls back on whenever he is cornered.

Of course it is just a smoke screen that he tries to use in order to deflect away from his own mistakes and errors. Some people fall for it too.

I understand you, since i did it too ( sorry about that ). But i know understand the diffrence between reality and what i/others want to hear/see... even thou most of time here, i'll try to find any clue that maybe just maybe one of those many sightings/events were true!

I hope i wrote that right...

[Just Dave]

But i want to point out that people like MacGuffin must have seen or red something that wasn't from this earth, something firm, something that made him beliver.

[mcrom901]

So he always said.

was he being truthful?

[TheMacGuffin]

was he being truthful?

I bet you have seen these pictures before.

[TheMacGuffin]

Edwards Air Force Base--1957. Cooper said that he saw these pictures, and they are certainly real. Not all of them have been seen by the public, though. There are more than this.

[TheMacGuffin]

Case 41 - Edwards AFB

May 2, 1957

California

Dr. James E. McDonald:

Occasionally, one could argue, UFOs ought to come into areas where there were persons engaged in photographic work, who were trained to react a bit faster, and who would secure some photos. One such instance evidently occurred at Edwards AFB on the morning of 5/3/57 (NICAP note: actually 5/2/57). I have managed to locate and interview three persons who saw the resultant photos. The two who observed the UFO and obtained a number of photos of it were James D. Bittick and John R. Gettys, Jr, both of whom I have interviewed. They were at the time Askania cameramen on the test range, and spotted the domed-disc UFO just as they reached Askania #4 site at Edwards, a bit before 8:00 a.m. that day. They immediately got into communication with the range director, Frank E. Baker, whom I have also interviewed, and they asked if anyone else was manning an Askania that could be used to get triangulation shots. Since no other camera operators were on duty at other sites, Baker told them to fire manually, and they got a number of shots before the object moved off into the distance. Bittick estimated that the object lay about a mile away when they got the first shot, though when first seen he put it at no more than 500 yards off. He and Gettys both said it had a golden color, looked somewhat like an inverted plate with a dome on top, and had square holes or panels around the dome. Gettys thought that the holes were circular not square. It was moving away from them, seemed to glow with its own luminosity, and had a hazy, indistinct halo around its rim, both mentioned. The number of shots taken is uncertain; Gettys thought perhaps 30. The object was lost from sight by the time it moved out to about five miles or so, and they did not .see it again. They drove into the base and processed the film immediately. All three of the men I interviewed emphasized that the shots taken at the closer range were very sharp, except for the hazy rim. They said the dome and the markings or openings showed in the photos. The photos were shortly taken by Base military authorities and were never seen again by the men. In a session later that day, Bittick and Carson were informed that they had seen a weather balloon distorted by the desert atmospheric effects, an interpretation that neither of them accepted since, as they stated to me, they saw weather ballons being released frequently there and knew what balloons looked like. Accounts got into local newspapers, as well as on wire services (Ref. 44). An Edwards spokesman was quoted in the Los Angeles Times as saying, "This desert air does crazy things," An INS wire-story said, "intelligence officers at Edwards ... would say almost nothing of the incident."

Discussion. -- I have not seen the photos alleged to have been taken in this incident, I have only interviewed the two who say they took them and a third person who states that he inspected the prints in company with the two Askania operators and darkroom personnel. I sent all of the relevant information on this case to the University of Colorado UFO project, but no checks were made as a result of that, unless done very recently. It would be rather interesting to see the prints.

Source: McDonald p. 85

44. Los Angeles Times, May 9, 1957; New York Journal-American, May 10, 1957.

James McDonald interviewed the people who took the pictures, but Oberg and friends will NEVER tell you that. LOL

http://www.nicap.org...edwards_mcd.htm

Edited October 28, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[mcrom901]

I bet you have seen these pictures before.

oh, i don't see any tripod landing gears in any of those...

[TheMacGuffin]

Blue Book said that the Edwards UFOs were balloons, and you can believe that if it floats your boat. LOL

http://www.nicap.org/reports/570502edwards_report.htm

[TheMacGuffin]

oh, i don't see any tripod landing gears in any of those...

Even those four pictures were very hard to get. Show some appreciation once in a while.

[TheMacGuffin]

But i want to point out that people like MacGuffin must have seen or red something that wasn't from this earth, something firm, something that made him beliver.

I did. Contrary to what my attackers say about me, I have never lied about anything.

[TheMacGuffin]

Even the people at Edwards denied that these 1957 UFOs were balloons. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that jets were set up after them, as they often were back then.

May 2, 1957. Edwards AFB, Calif. (BBU 4715)

6:55-7:20 a.m. (PDT). James D. Bittick and John R. Gettys, Jr., civilian phototheodolite operators, were driving by truck to Askania Site #4 when they sighted an object above them about 500 yards away. They radioed a report to their supervisor Frank Baker who told them to set up the camera and try to film the object, which they did after about 10 mins. They photographed what they described as a golden luminous domed-saucer shaped object with holes or ports around the dome about 100 ft in diameter about 1 mile in the distance to the N headed E (photos show multiple? objects). Available phototheodolite frames 614, 620 and 651 (609 too blurred, cutoff) show azimuth 10°28' elevation 2°24' shifting E to azimuth 40°30' elevation 1°0'. Disappeared at about 5 miles. Possible jet fighter interception. [Possible weather balloon with slow leak, explanation denied by Edwards AFB Colonel Klein (sp?) analyzing actual tracking of balloon and wind direction.] (Tom Tulien; Jan Aldrich; McDonald 1968 pp. 75, 85; Loren Gross Mar-May 1957 pp. 67-68; IUR Oct 2005) 25 mins 2 witnesses 8 Full Moons? photo-theodolite.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nicap.org%2F570502edwardsafb_dir.htm&ei=2mSNULlMhpL2BLSQgOAJ&usg=AFQjCNHgmMJSSpg6WX-U21qSYqT1hqBAcQ&sig2=MeUKqYa_zQxIEy6djLcI4Q

[mcrom901]

Even those four pictures were very hard to get. Show some appreciation once in a while.

oh, sorry... THANKS...

but, what does those pix re shiny balls of light prove?

alienz? uap?

it's like me posting the following clip...

so? does that reinforce cooper's tripods?

[booNyzarC]

James McDonald interviewed the people who took the pictures, but Oberg and friends will NEVER tell you that. LOL

http://www.nicap.org...edwards_mcd.htm

Here you go spouting lies again. Tell me McG, when will your character assassination attempts come to an end? James has been asking people to locate that throughout the thread and compare it to Cooper's account. Good of you to finally do what he asked, though poor form of you to take another unfounded and outright false jab at him in the process.

Oberg quoted the very same thing right here. He even contacted one of the witnesses, John ("Jack") Gettys himself. What did Gettys have to say about Cooper's involvement?

"I am amazed that Gordon Cooper said the object landed -- as far as I know, he never even saw it.... His story sounds kind of funny to me."

Hrmm... Yeah, I'd say Cooper's version doesn't match up.

[booNyzarC]

Blue Book said that the Edwards UFOs were balloons, and you can believe that if it floats your boat. LOL

http://www.nicap.org...ards_report.htm

They didn't just say that it was a weather balloon, they substantiated it pretty well. The investigation looks pretty cut and dried to me.

No matter how much people may be inclined to giggle at the weather balloon explanation for UFO reports, the fact remains that they have indeed been reported as UFOs many many times.

[JimOberg]

By the way, the 1957 Edwards UFO landing was real, and there were about 30 pictures taken of it as well as some film. James McDonald interviewed the men who took these pictures.

http://www.google.co...Tdm765SLtqIeu5Q

Where in the McDonald report does he say the object landed?

DID

HE

SAY

THE

OBJECT

LANDED?

How can you misunderstand this basic question?

Can you answer honestly?

[JimOberg]

Was Cooper there?

So he always said.

False. He only made that claim later in his life. In 1978 or so he told Lee Spiegel on tape that all his information was 'second hand'.

Now, what did the primary witnesses [Gettys for example] -- and McDonald -- have to say about Cooper's presence?