What does this mean for America?

[LucidElement]

So your alternative is to have people just croak or go without health care? Or do you think it's OK when people have crazy medical bills and just don't pay them? Then claim bankrupsy? Because I'm sure you don't end up paying for that right? I'd like to hear what you think should be done about healthcare... and nothing isn't an option... especially not to me who's dealing with a serious health condition that's much worse today because I haven't had health care for 10 years because I coudn't afford to buy it as an individual.

What's your solution? Be very specific.

its "Bankruptcy" first of all.. and second of all.. www.empireblue.com.. your bluecross provider for NYC.. very affordable.. and 10 years ago.. EVEN much more affordable.. and even today its not 640.00 a month lol.. Specific enough?? its allll there for you..

[docyabut2]

I really don`t see any difference except for more added debt to the tax payer. I know they want end all medicare and put everyone on a single one payer plan to the government and everyone has to pay that health tax, when they file their income taxs every year or pay a pentaly.However half the people don`t even pay taxes and there will be more people not paying any income taxes when more of the jobs are lost, all I see it as a bigger medicade program to the people who do pay the taxs have to pay.

[MissMelsWell]

Actually, obamacare does not go into effect until 2014... so no such thing as obama care lol.. and yes i pay 240.00 (Out of pocket) not thru my company.. my company does not offer health care.. my deductible is 2500.00 a year.. i pay more because of my medication i take. but again. out of pocket... and yes my buddy ALSO lives in Manhattan, NYC.. pays 200.00 a month for a PPO, his deductible is 2500.00.. BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD.. go look at blue cross blue shield.. NYC, CA, FL, anywhere.. lol its like 150-300 a month individual plan.. and again, NO OBAMACARE has kicked in yet till 2014..

Dude, you're TOTALLY wrong. Portions of "obamacare" have gone into effect, like the pre-existing condition clause. the full plan doesnt go into effect until 2014 but portions of it have already. So yes, your pre-existing conditions were required to have been covered in 2010. Look it up. Prior to 2010, pre-existing wasn't covered.

In my state, I can't get Blue Cross for $150, unless it's catostrophic care. Do you know what that is? I can't afford $150 for nothing. It covers NOTHING unless I"m in some kind of freak accident. And, the deductable is... drum roll... 10K.

And that $300 a month plan, you know what that covers? Virtually nothing and the deductable and patient portion is so high it's also not worth buying, 30% of the bill would be my responsibility to pay along with $35 co-pays each time I walked into the office. For my upcoming surgery, do you know witht that plan how much I'd be responsible for in my state? $7500 and it doesn't cover prescriptions so that bill is going to be even higher when I get it!. I haven't got that kind of money, especially after paying $300 a month for the premiums!

If I want comparable to what I get at work now, and buy it on my own, it would be $607 a month! and that still includes a big patient portion, but manageable if you are working and can make payment arrangements with the hospital. You have to read the small print before you buy a health plan. I hope you don't get sick and it leaves you bankrupt. Of course in 2014, it won't.

BTW, I live in Seattle, not NYC. It's MUCH higher in Washington and covers less than it does in NY. That's why I asked if you live in NY. NY has had heavily regulated insurance companies for years for both auto and health.

Edited November 12, 2012 by MissMelsWell

[+joc]

You have to read the small print before you buy a health plan. I hope you don't get sick and it leaves you bankrupt. Of course in 2014, it won't.

By 2016 the Government will be bankrupt.

[MissMelsWell]

By 2016 the Government will be bankrupt.

Do you have anything constructive to add? The government is already bankrupt thanks to a giant war pointless war put on a credit card.

Oh and I didn't like your plan for fixing health care. I can't see how buying across state lines is going to fix the problem of high premiums and outrageous deductables. And you talked some nonsense about paying doctors.Contrary to popular belief, doctors don't make as much money as you might think they do. My sister is a doctor, she makes less than I do and we won't even talk about her student loans. Beleive it or not, my sister is an advocate of full-on socialized medicine.

[ninjadude]

..How is it that suddenly if everyone has an insurance policy that the insurance companies will suddenly be able to pay for Every medical expense known to mankind?

They don't now and they won't in the future either. What makes you think they would have to?

[ninjadude]

By 2016 the Government will be bankrupt.

not possible. We print our own money.

[ninjadude]

The first solution would be to allow Health Insurance Companies to expand beyond state lines.

It's clear then that you have not read or even educated yourself about the affordable care act. That is precisely one of the many things it does.

[ninjadude]

I know they want end all medicare and put everyone on a single one payer plan to the government and everyone has to pay that health tax,

They you're not aware at all. The affordable care act does no such thing. And everyone does not have to pay a "health tax". That's just silly.

[+joc]

It's clear then that you have not read or even educated yourself about the affordable care act. That is precisely one of the many things it does.

Look, you keep missing something...maybe it's because you don't want to believe it, maybe it's because you haven't logically thought it all the way through...maybe whatever...you are missing that the end result of ObamaCare is Single Payer...it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what particulars there are about insurance companies...because there aren't going to be any left...sooner than later.

[F3SS]

I can't see how buying across state lines is going to fix the problem of high premiums and outrageous deductables.

My first thought is competition. My second thought is that you don't like it because Joc said it. My third thought is would you like it if it was a part of the ACA because ninja says it is... Honestly, I don't know if it is and I would like you and ninja to hash this out.

[sam12six]

Here's the problem with health care: It's too damned expensive. Does anyone disagree with this? Assuming you don't, why is it so expensive? It's because we've gotten to the point that routine expenses now go through insurance companies and the prices skyrocketed as a result. Hospitals don't actually care what things cost because they'll just pass rising costs to the insurance companies. Insurance companies don't care because they'll just pass the cost to those they underwrite. Vendors (those who supply the hospital with the equipment and medicines and such) take advantage of this by jacking prices on anything sold to the medical community - as in hundreds of percent higher than an individual could buy the same product straight from the manufacturer.

There are 4 ways to deal with the situation (in order from least to most "socialist"):

Free market - let people who can't afford medical care die. Eventually enough people will die that hospitals will begin to compete in terms of value instead of the current "We replace our perfectly functional $12M MRI machine every year" prestige competition, putting pressure on vendors to lower prices. Theoretically things eventually reach a balance.

Obamacare - force private insurance companies to accept nonprofitable customers and compensate them by forcing otherwise uninterested people to become their customers. In the short term, this works because it'll broaden the customer base of insurance companies. In the long run, the problem will probably get far, far worse because the system that has created the ridiculous prices on medical supplies hasn't changed except for having more money flowing through it.

Government regulation on vendor profit - like the way the government limits the interest that banks can charge on loans, the government could (at the very least) ensure that the prices vendors charge the medical community are not marked up to ungodly levels just because the people actually paying the bill are two steps removed from the ones they submit the bill to. Actual health care reform as opposed to some health INSURANCE reform with perks.

A single payer system - the government setting up hospitals staffed with doctors and nurses who are actually paid by the government and using the bargaining strength of the government to strongarm vendors into providing supplies at a reasonable cost.

Of the 4 choices, Obamacare is the only one that can't theoretically work in the long run. I don't blame Obama for that. The POTUS is limited to what Congress is willing to do. It's helping people at the moment but it's a stop-gap measure. I'd personally like to see government regulation on vendors, but at the very least, the government should open its own hospitals/clinics for those who are getting their health care dollars from taxes (Medicaid, whatever).

[MissMelsWell]

sam12six, I don't actaully disagree with you.

I never said "obamacare" was the answer, I know it's not, I see it as a step toward reform. At some point, I'd like to see heavy regulation on the ENTIRE industry, including insurance companies. I'd likely stop short of single payer.

Thank you for your excellent synopsis.

[sam12six]

sam12six, I don't actaully disagree with you.

I never said "obamacare" was the answer, I know it's not, I see it as a step toward reform. At some point, I'd like to see heavy regulation on the ENTIRE industry, including insurance companies. I'd likely stop short of single payer.

Thank you for your excellent synopsis.

Yeah, I wasn't saying, "Ha!! You're wrong!!".

It's just one of my pet peeves that whenever people get into this discussion one side screams socialism and the other says it's health care reform and it's neither - it's a halfassed insurance reform that does nothing to address the problem (which is that an average working American can't afford routine medical care out of pocket and must use insurance for it). If car insurance companies started letting routine maintenance become an allowable claim, it wouldn't be long before an oil change cost two hundred bucks.

I like the intent of Obamacare, but I think the implementation will just allow the problem to keep growing.

[LucidElement]

Dude, you're TOTALLY wrong. Portions of "obamacare" have gone into effect, like the pre-existing condition clause. the full plan doesnt go into effect until 2014 but portions of it have already. So yes, your pre-existing conditions were required to have been covered in 2010. Look it up. Prior to 2010, pre-existing wasn't covered.

In my state, I can't get Blue Cross for $150, unless it's catostrophic care. Do you know what that is? I can't afford $150 for nothing. It covers NOTHING unless I"m in some kind of freak accident. And, the deductable is... drum roll... 10K.

And that $300 a month plan, you know what that covers? Virtually nothing and the deductable and patient portion is so high it's also not worth buying, 30% of the bill would be my responsibility to pay along with $35 co-pays each time I walked into the office. For my upcoming surgery, do you know witht that plan how much I'd be responsible for in my state? $7500 and it doesn't cover prescriptions so that bill is going to be even higher when I get it!. I haven't got that kind of money, especially after paying $300 a month for the premiums!

If I want comparable to what I get at work now, and buy it on my own, it would be $607 a month! and that still includes a big patient portion, but manageable if you are working and can make payment arrangements with the hospital. You have to read the small print before you buy a health plan. I hope you don't get sick and it leaves you bankrupt. Of course in 2014, it won't.

BTW, I live in Seattle, not NYC. It's MUCH higher in Washington and covers less than it does in NY. That's why I asked if you live in NY. NY has had heavily regulated insurance companies for years for both auto and health.

i live in MT.. from CA.. but had indepent health care in both states.. I have comprehensive health insurance because of pre-exsisting conditions.. i couldnt get a regular blue cross blue shield plan.. i pay 240.00 a month my deductible is 2500... but catastropic insurance is better then nothing. even at 5k or 10k. you never know when youll need it..

[+joc]

sam12six, I don't actaully disagree with you.

I never said "obamacare" was the answer, I know it's not, I see it as a step toward reform. At some point, I'd like to see heavy regulation on the ENTIRE industry, including insurance companies. I'd likely stop short of single payer.

Thank you for your excellent synopsis.

You voted for it!

If you voted for Obama...you voted for ObamaCare...and if you didn't know it would end in Single Payer...then well, that's no one's fault but your own!

[questionmark]

You voted for it!

If you voted for Obama...you voted for ObamaCare...and if you didn't know it would end in Single Payer...then well, that's no one's fault but your own!

It is very cheap to squeal against it without offering an alternative but "turn around and die". And the unsustainable situation has existed since the 80s, time enough for some to stop dragging their feet and get their ar$e in gear. Instead all we heard is what they don't want, well, for lack of action now you got it.

[preacherman76]

Look, you keep missing something...maybe it's because you don't want to believe it, maybe it's because you haven't logically thought it all the way through...maybe whatever...you are missing that the end result of ObamaCare is Single Payer...it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what particulars there are about insurance companies...because there aren't going to be any left...sooner than later.

Thats not true joc. If it were so, he wouldnt have taken that outta the bill. There was no reason for him to take it out. In fact, if one didnt understand that he sold out to health insurance companies, it would be very hard to understand why he took it out at all. All he did was p*** off the people who supported him. 0bama is not a socialist, contrary to popular belief. He is a government run by corperations kinda guy. Wants to run a Oligarchy type government.

[preacherman76]

Do you have anything constructive to add? The government is already bankrupt thanks to a giant war pointless war put on a credit card.

Oh and I didn't like your plan for fixing health care. I can't see how buying across state lines is going to fix the problem of high premiums and outrageous deductables. And you talked some nonsense about paying doctors.Contrary to popular belief, doctors don't make as much money as you might think they do. My sister is a doctor, she makes less than I do and we won't even talk about her student loans. Beleive it or not, my sister is an advocate of full-on socialized medicine.

Miss, right now insurance companies have a monopoly in each state. Some states having as few as 2 insurance companies to choose from. You open the boarders, you open competition. It would go along way in reducing the prices.

[+joc]

joc, on 13 November 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:

Look, you keep missing something...maybe it's because you don't want to believe it, maybe it's because you haven't logically thought it all the way through...maybe whatever...you are missing that the end result of ObamaCare is Single Payer...it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what particulars there are about insurance companies...because there aren't going to be any left...sooner than later.

Thats not true joc. If it were so, he wouldnt have taken that outta the bill. There was no reason for him to take it out. In fact, if one didnt understand that he sold out to health insurance companies, it would be very hard to understand why he took it out at all. All he did was p*** off the people who supported him. 0bama is not a socialist, contrary to popular belief. He is a government run by corperations kinda guy. Wants to run a Oligarchy type government.

Really? Would you be interested in purchasing a beautiful home on the beach? Just asking, because I have one I will sell you. It is located only 20 miles south of Witchita, Kansas. Beautiful rolling green hills that settle up nicely to the gorgeous beach view. Just imagine yourself preacherman, sitting on the beach, watching the waves roll in. Ah, can you smell the salty breeze? All this for the low, low price of ...that's right...$22,000. Twenty-two thousand dollars preacherman, and you can be living on the beach...fishing every day...picking up seashells that roll in with the high tide...and surfing. I'm talking eight foot waves preach!

Then on the other hand...you might just be buying a hunk of Kansas dirt. But just imagine....

[ninjadude]

.you are missing that the end result of ObamaCare is Single Payer..

you can make that prediction. But it's not in the law or intent. I'd also question your record of prognostication....

[F3SS]

It's certainly has that intent. It's the only logical long term path.

[ninjadude]

Qualified Health Plans (QHPs)

Exchanges should be designed to provide qualified individuals and small businesses with access to an insurers’ QHPs. QHPs are described in the ACA as a type of health plan that is subject to a specified list of requirements related to marketing, choice of providers, plan networks, essential benefits, and other features. QHP issuers will have to be licensed by each state in order to be eligible to provide coverage within their boundaries, and offer at least one QHP at the silver or gold level of coverage.

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/american-health-benefit-exchanges.aspx

Each state's exchange decides who can offer a QHP. So any barrier is local. If Mississippi doesn't want Massive Healthcare of NY to operate there, they can do that. But I'm sure that MHNY would object legally.

[LucidElement]

Thats not true joc. If it were so, he wouldnt have taken that outta the bill. There was no reason for him to take it out. In fact, if one didnt understand that he sold out to health insurance companies, it would be very hard to understand why he took it out at all. All he did was p*** off the people who supported him. 0bama is not a socialist, contrary to popular belief. He is a government run by corperations kinda guy. Wants to run a Oligarchy type government.

The problem is simple. as yiuo stated.. he rules as OLIGARCHY type government, to bad this was a DEMOCRACY type country.. "WE THE PEOPLE" now a few people that make the rules. but we as a nation vote and make the rules.. ive said it before, ill say it again.. he is a socialist.. and oligarchy then be it.. (which is not true) but say it is.. still not the way this country was built on.. not for 43 previous presidents!! This guy is a wolf in sheeps clothing!!!

[LucidElement]

White people are now the minority.. I really liked what O'Reilly said, because OMG how true is this!!! during election day!

“The white establishment is now the minority,” O'Reilly said. “And the voters, many of them, feel that the economic system is stacked against them and they want stuff. You are going to see a tremendous Hispanic vote for President Obama. Overwhelming black vote for President Obama. And women will probably break President Obama's way. People feel that they are entitled to things and which candidate, between the two, is going to give them things?”