Bin Laden was not buried at sea,

[through the fire]

And, how was it determined that something was up during the raid at the residence of Osama bin Laden?

Go on.

[skyeagle409]

Go on.

One only has to figure that explosions and gunfire was going to attract attention that time of night.

Bin Laden killed in fiery raid in Pakistan

Abbottabad resident Mohammad Haroon Rasheed said the raid happened about 1:15 a.m. local time.

"I heard a thundering sound, followed by heavy firing. Then firing suddenly stopped. Then more thundering, then a big blast," he said. "In the morning when we went out to see what happened, some helicopter wreckage was lying in an open field."

http://www.timesfree...-raid-pakistan/

It's vacation time tomorrow!!

Edited November 30, 2012 by skyeagle409

[acidhead]

Evidence, is the name of the game.

Yeah... and there is zero evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that OBL was killed by Seal Team 6 because they didn't allow any independent sources to vet the body.

You're gullible to believe this story without any proof.

And citing al-Qaeda as a source is even more dumb.

Edited November 30, 2012 by acidhead

[skyeagle409]

Yeah... and there is zero evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that OBL was killed by Seal Team 6 because they didn't allow any independent sources to vet the body.

Apparently, the evidence was good enough for al-Qaeda, and as a result, they made a leadership change.

You're gullible to believe this story without any proof.

I wouldn't say that! With over 40 years experience within the defense field, I know how things work in the background.

And citing al-Qaeda as a source is even more dumb.

Al-Qaeda would never handed us an overwhelming victory in the eyes of the world. Study their mindset! I might add that U.S. forces did not go to Pakistan for rest and recuperation.

Edited November 30, 2012 by skyeagle409

[acidhead]

Apparently, the evidence was good enough for al-Qaeda, and as a result, they made a leadership change.

I wouldn't say that! With over 40 years experience within the defense field, I know how things work in the background.

Al-Qaeda would never handed us an overwhelming victory in the eyes of the world. Study their mindset! I might add that U.S. forces did not go to Pakistan for rest and recuperation.

Tell me more about this 'studying their mindset'.. please.

Edited November 30, 2012 by acidhead

[Little Fish]

Meanwhile in other news, according to sources santa claus has died unexpectedly. According to santa experts one of santa's little helpers will take control of the organisation according to inside expert intelligence sources. Official sources feel the location of santa's burial should remain secret said an official inside intelligence source expert. According to officials santa's organisation under new leadership will enable christmas to proceed as usual according to christmas experts with links to santa's organisation. conspiracy theorists bitterly claim there is no evidence santa ever existed, the dirty conspiracy theorists claim all these reports are a conspiracy to perpetuate what they claim is a myth. Officials have encouraged people to reassure others on the internet that the spirit of santa lives on as fears grow that christmas will be cancelled.

[skyeagle409]

Tell me more about this 'studying their mindset'.. please.

First of all, I will compare the mindset of the former Soviet Union in respect to the Apollo moon missions and afterward, al-Qaeda in order to compare the two mindsets.

The former Soviet Union saw itself as superior to the West and yet, they confirmed to its own people that the United States beat them to the moon. They had the capability to track the Apollo missions to the moon so it was a serious blow to the ego of the Soviet government to admit to the world and to its people, the United States beat them to the moon, which they would not have done had we truly hoaxed the moon missions. The Soviets would have used hoaxes to their advantage for propaganda purposes and broadcast the hoaxes to the whole world, yet they confirmed the moon missions as authentic. Do you remember how the Soviets displayed Francis Gary Powers and the wreckage of the downed U-2 ? To sum it up, the Soviets would never have confirmed the Apollo moon missions if the missions were truly hoaxed. Now, let's get to al-Qaeda.

Al-Qaeda confirmed that American special forces killed their highly respected leader and It has to be understood that al-Qaeda would not have just taken the word of the United States alone and then, confirm his death at the hands of the United States to the whole world. After confirmation from al-Qaeda on the death of bin Laden, al-Qaeda underwent a change in leadership in June 2011, which basically supported its admission on the death of bin Laden in May 2011. The announcement by al-Qaeda on the death of bin Laden effectively removed him from the picture from that point, onward and such an admission was a serious blow, not just because in the loss of its leader, but for the loss of valuable intelligence information as well, which no doubt will be used against al-Qaeda. I might add that American special forces didn't go to Pakistan to pay Osama bin Laden a goodwill visit.

With over 40 years within the defense industry, my opinion is, the mission was a kill mission from the very beginning with no intention of taking bin Laden alive. Once the mission began, bin Laden was doomed. In the beginning of May 2011, Osama bin Laden was leader of al-Qaeda, however, by June 2011, Ayman al-Zawahiri became the new leader of al-Qaeda. Little clues that indicate that something seriously happened to bin Laden between May 2011 and June 2011 and burying him on land was not part of the plan.

Now, it's vacation time for a week and I am off to Washington.

Edited November 30, 2012 by skyeagle409

[through the fire]

One only has to figure that explosions and gunfire was going to attract attention that time of night.

It's vacation time tomorrow!!

Are you trying to make any point here or just avoiding the question?

[Babe Ruth]

It is no secret that al-Qaeda admitted that bin Laden was killed by U.S. forces and it was no secret that bin Laden's family was taken into custody shortly after the raid, and it was no secret that U.S. special forces were there because they left their calling card and it was no secret that there was a leadership change within al-Qaeda after the U.S. raid. In other words, bin Laden was no longer in the picture after May 2011. Where are you going to bury his body? Definitely not in the United States, but then again, why would the U.S. government bury him here anyway? Burying him on land would create a problem of its own.

To sum it up, it is just a matter of placing the pieces of the puzzle in the right place to determine what picture the puzzle depicts.

It is not a secret Sky, and it is not a fact either.

[lightly]

[Zaphod222]

With over 40 years within the defense industry, my opinion is, the mission was a kill mission from the very beginning with no intention of taking bin Laden alive.

Talk about saying the blatantly obvious. Of course they wanted to kill Bin Ladin and and taking him alive. What in the world would they want to do with him?

All the perpetrators of 9/11 died in the event. So what could they accuse Bin Ladin of? Of planning the event, helping to organize it and brag about it? Well, duh....

That is hardly sensational material. Can you imagine American defense lawyers crawl over that, while OBL has a free platform on all TV stations to preach his pure islam?

And then Obama would have been stuck with the guy in an American comfy jail. Good grief, even Barry could see what a disaster that would have been.

[Q24]

For the record, I believe the gist of the U.S. government version of events on this one – bin Laden was taken out that day. Anything else does not appear to fit and strains credibility in my opinion. This is obviously more demonstration of my ‘confirmation bias’ to accept ideas against the U.S. government which I’m stood accused of elsewhere, haha.

Though, it does appear there is a much deeper story than has been let on in the public domain. Oh not only was ‘Al Qaeda’ a tool of the intelligence services but bin Laden himself was trained and adjacent to agents of such agencies (whether he knew it is another matter) – that alone tells us within which authority the true control begins. Evidence and reports suggest that bin Laden had remained under house arrest of those agencies for the last decade with agreement from elements of the Taliban, U.S. and bin Laden himself.

To refresh, please see my post #91 for the evidence. It’s something I’m surprised that more of the online world has not jumped on.

[through the fire]

Case closed then. Definitive proof.

[DONTEATUS]

Dead ! & Pushed over the Edge !

[Babe Ruth]

In mid April 2011 Obama committed a huge faux pas on camera and in front of supporters in San Francisco at an early campaign lunch.

Many of those supporters, who had paid typical prices per plate to have lunch with the President, had organized a secret protest to Obama regarding the inhumane and highly illegal treatment of Bradley Manning. High roller Democrats who had organized a very effective protest in the presence of the President. It was very embarrassing for Obama, as he was recorded on film declaring Manning's guilt.

Such a declaration was way beyond improper, and even under the UCMJ, likely grounds for a mistrial and dismissal of charges. The C-in-C must maintain neutrality until due process is completed.

About 2 weeks later, the story of Abbottabad is released.

Case closed.

[Little Fish]

For the record, I believe the gist of the U.S. government version of events on this one – bin Laden was taken out that day. Anything else does not appear to fit and strains credibility in my opinion. This is obviously more demonstration of my ‘confirmation bias’ to accept ideas against the U.S. government which I’m stood accused of elsewhere, haha.

Though, it does appear there is a much deeper story than has been let on in the public domain. Oh not only was ‘Al Qaeda’ a tool of the intelligence services but bin Laden himself was trained and adjacent to agents of such agencies (whether he knew it is another matter) – that alone tells us within which authority the true control begins. Evidence and reports suggest that bin Laden had remained under house arrest of those agencies for the last decade with agreement from elements of the Taliban, U.S. and bin Laden himself.

To refresh, please see my post #91 for the evidence. It’s something I’m surprised that more of the online world has not jumped on.

Hamid Gul former head of pakistani ISI believes bin laden died several years ago,

he also thinks the raid was an electioneering stunt. given the heat obama was getting at the time, this seems most plausible.

if the story of the raid was true, it should be expected that bin laden's death was evidenced, but there is no evidence. The fact that the story kept changing is a sign of a pysop to me, throws the mdeia off into meaningless details masking the important questions.

[media=]

[/media]

[Babe Ruth]

Obama had a mini revolt going on amongst his most well-heeled supporters over Bradley Manning's poor treatment, it was on video, and the subject had to be changed.

Voila!

[Little Fish]

Obama had a mini revolt going on amongst his most well-heeled supporters over Bradley Manning's poor treatment, it was on video, and the subject had to be changed.

Voila!

I don't know about what you wrote there but Jerome corsi's book was just published documenting the birth certificate as fraudulent. whether one believes he is legitimate to be president or not is irrelevant, it seems conclusive that the birth certificate had been doctored to hide his real father's identity, perhaps because it was deemed politically damaging to allow this information into the public domain.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamathelovechild.php

a lot of effort went into burying this story, just as it was peaking, along comes the bin laden story.

[Babe Ruth]

I don't know about what you wrote there but Jerome corsi's book was just published documenting the birth certificate as fraudulent. whether one believes he is legitimate to be president or not is irrelevant, it seems conclusive that the birth certificate had been doctored to hide his real father's identity, perhaps because it was deemed politically damaging to allow this information into the public domain.

http://whatreallyhap...helovechild.php

a lot of effort went into burying this story, just as it was peaking, along comes the bin laden story.

At least we agree that deception is being employed.

But I am so far beyond that birth certificate business that it's not funny. I mean, what are we going to do, crown John McCain as president?

I'm kinda proud of pointing out a probable reason for dragging Osama out of retirement, again. If that many wealthy democrats were willing to protest, what might be next? Change the focus point for the media and your problem is solved.

[DONTEATUS]

JUST ZERO DARK THIRTY !

[Babe Ruth]

JUST ZERO DARK THIRTY !

Don't forget LET'S ROLL! or the original story concocted for Mary Tillman regarding the death of her son.

[Q24]

Hamid Gul former head of pakistani ISI believes bin laden died several years ago,

he also thinks the raid was an electioneering stunt. given the heat obama was getting at the time, this seems most plausible.

if the story of the raid was true, it should be expected that bin laden's death was evidenced, but there is no evidence. The fact that the story kept changing is a sign of a pysop to me, throws the mdeia off into meaningless details masking the important questions.

Hamid Gul, who retired from the ISI in 1989 and claims to have had no contact since? Hmm. There are many high-profile individuals who believe that bin Laden died some years ago. It sure made a good cover for his imprisonment.... it fooled me; I used to believe bin Laden likely dead also.

I do agree that bin Laden was imprisoned with a purpose in mind. But I don’t see the real or potential benefit of pulling the stunt at the time it happened. Did Obama benefit beyond a popularity rise over a couple months? Did the powers that be find benefit in Obama over Romney? I don’t get it in this context... it all seems like a very elaborate stunt for the sake of... nothing. The powers that be waited all this time for... nothing? I need a real motive.

Unless, it wasn’t a stunt at all; Obama and genuine CIA agents really did take bin Laden out. That makes sense. I bet the real Neocons in Washington were p***ed about that.

There was evidence of something having occurred at the compound – the Navy SEAL retelling, crashed helicopter and U.S. and Pakistani reports confirm all that. I think you mean evidence such as letting the world media view the body that would have closed the case, but then perhaps the U.S. were not in position to do that... the wound of an assassin’s bullet through the back of the head indicating a ‘kill mission’ does their credibility no favours. The changing story may be a result of the U.S. attempt to save face by presenting bin Laden as the aggressor, before the real details came out.

[Little Fish]

bin Laden was placed under control/house arrest immediately after 9/11.

bin laden was in rawalpindi, pakistan the day before 911.

http://globalresearc...es/CHO311A.html

high level Taliban, Pakistani and U.S. officials agreed that he should be detained in Pakistan.

possible

bin Laden was allowed to, and did, cross into Pakistan as arranged.

this conflicts with the first point.

I don't think bin laden was ever in afghanistan.

I see no reason why no pictures were released, of the aftermath, or the body, at that point there was nothing to hide and everything to gain politically. dumping the body at sea is absurd, and again no evidence.

[Q24]

bin laden was in rawalpindi, pakistan the day before 911.

http://globalresearc...es/CHO311A.html

possible

this conflicts with the first point.

I don't think bin laden was ever in afghanistan.

It’s quite possible for bin Laden to be in Rawalpindi, Pakistan on Sep. 10^th and Khandahar, Afghanistan by Sep. 13^th.

I see no reason why no pictures were released, of the aftermath, or the body, at that point there was nothing to hide and everything to gain politically. dumping the body at sea is absurd, and again no evidence.

There were pictures released from Pakistani sources of the helicopter, building and dead guards. I’m not sure it would be sensible to release pictures of bin Laden... a bullet exit wound in his face is going to be hard to tidy up... and this gives away the assassination/kill mission... it doesn’t look great or do Obama any favour. I also don’t see that dumping the body at sea is unrealistic. Though, I do see what you mean about all of this resulting in somewhat lacking evidence. But overall I can’t make it fit. This elaborate stunt... for nothing. So help me. The motive I asked about? There isn’t anything is there?

[through the fire]

There were pictures released from Pakistani sources of the helicopter, building and dead guards. I’m not sure it would be sensible to release pictures of bin Laden... a bullet exit wound in his face is going to be hard to tidy

up... and this gives away the assassination/kill mission... it doesn’t look great or do Obama any favour. I also don’t see that dumping the body

at sea is unrealistic. Though, I do see what you mean about all of this resulting in somewhat lacking evidence. But overall I can’t make it fit. This elaborate stunt... for nothing. So help me. The motive I asked about? There isn’t anything

is there?

Yeah, they don't want anyone to think badly of going on a kill mission..........so they admit it was a kill mission.