Is Cain still amoung us?

[Melo -]

So im not a religious nut, and I havent really looked it up much but

Does anyone know what happened to thr first murderer Cain who slain his brother out of jealousy? The story I know says god himslef was so heated at the act that he or she, brandished the ''mark of cain" unto the individual who was then cursed to.....and this is where I get confuzzled, because its never clear about where he died or even if he died at at, u know? Was he cursed to walk moung us forever or cursed to live out his days whereas showcasing he was physically betrayal?...i bring this up cuz I hear stupid conspiracy theories from friends and some believe cain is the centerifuge to this 'fascade' orgaylluminatti or watever.

And the absolute last thing u hear of Cain is that he took part in building some obscure and insignificant city,then well....nothing.

Anyone in this forum have any advanced knowledge of this that may help me fill in the gaps so I can shut up or nut up to these wild accusations?

I wont lie, im really interested what exactly happened... Thanks

[+and-then]

I always assumed he died of natural causes. But I don't know if scripture gives his fate.

[ImaLoner]

There's a legend which has him dying at the hands of Lamech. Lamech was his great-great-great grandson.

[Karlis]

So im not a religious nut, and I havent really looked it up much but

Does anyone know what happened to thr first murderer Cain who slain his brother out of jealousy? The story I know says god himslef was so heated at the act that he or she, brandished the ''mark of cain" unto the individual who was then cursed to.....and this is where I get confuzzled, because its never clear about where he died or even if he died at at, u know? Was he cursed to walk moung us forever or cursed to live out his days whereas showcasing he was physically betrayal?...i bring this up cuz I hear stupid conspiracy theories from friends and some believe cain is the centerifuge to this 'fascade' orgaylluminatti or watever.

And the absolute last thing u hear of Cain is that he took part in building some obscure and insignificant city,then well....nothing.

Anyone in this forum have any advanced knowledge of this that may help me fill in the gaps so I can shut up or nut up to these wild accusations?

I wont lie, im really interested what exactly happened... Thanks

Hi Melo -- first, regarding why God placed "the mark" on Cain:

Gen 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

As to how and when Cain died -- there are no clear Scriptures in the Bible, but maybe the following explanation could be as good as any other explanation. ... You be the judge, after reading the following information:

Legends of the Jews

by Louis Ginzberg

Cain knew only too well that his blood-guiltiness would be visited upon him in the seventh generation. Thus had God decreed against him. ~~~ ... (Snip) ...

Read the story here > http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/lginzberg/bl-lginzberg-legends-1-3e.htm

Hope you find this interesting, even if you may decide that this is only an ancient legend,

Karlis

Edited December 2, 2012 by Karlis

[Melo -]

Thank you Karlis for that informative read, I really enjoyed it so. Very enlighted I am knowing THAT HE CAIN IS AMOUNG USSS!!!!!!

jk

Edited December 2, 2012 by Melo -

[Etu Malku]

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

The eating of the Forbidden Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a metaphor in that this encounter of Eve and the Serpent, the consumption of the fruit is that of the Prince of Darkness, then known as Belial, planting the seed in Eve with what will be her first child, Cain.

For Belial knew that in order to save Mankind from the chains of this jealous and violent god, that Man must possess the Gnosis enabling Him towards Apotheosis "then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods," (GEN 3:5)

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

For this Cain would take the life of Abel in defiance of God, and set himself apart from all of God and his Creation, to walk in isolation that of his own Path, the Left Hand Path.

And in hindsight, God wrought with guilt over instigating Abel's death, grants Cain amnesty.

In time Cain and his wife gave birth to Enoch and Created the city of Enoch all its inhabitants. Again, we see the metaphor for the Left Hand Path, of separating from God's Will and Creation and embracing Our Will and designing our own Creation (City of Enoch).

[Melo -]

Very interesting point malku yet the question up for grabs is if the murderer is still amoung us or not.

Searches make the story a little hazy near the end, especially when it comes to the terms of his demise, or if dying was even the case

Do u think he may still be amoung us?

[Copen]

Etu Malku wrote:

"We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel."

My reply:

"And Adam knew Eve, his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain and said, 'I have gotten a man from the LORD.'" Cain was not only from the Lord; but he was a product of Adam knowing his wife, Eve. (In the Bible, many times the word "knew" is used to mean marital intimacy.) God never cursed Cain. God cursed Cain TO FOREVER GO FROM THE EARTH WHERE ABEL'S BLOOD WAS SHED. This means Cain nor his descendants would ever be allowed to come back to live and claim the land we know as Israel. God did not hate Cain because God placed a mark on Cain to protect him from being killed by Gentile strangers. Allowed to live; but never allowed to be the true line of worship which would eventually birth Jesus.

When Cain was forced to go live among Gentile strangers Cain eventually married a Gentile who was proud enough of his name to see some version of his name handed down through the centuries, example: Tubal-Cain and Canaan. Apparently, Noah, son, Ham married a descendant woman of Cain for they named their son, Canaan. A part of that land was named Canaan after him. From the Mediterranean eastward to the western borders of the Dead Sea. But Canaan had been cursed to be a servant of the descendants of Japheth, (Gentile) and Shem (Jews). The Canaanites were still trying to get it all back. But it wasn't allowed to be. The descendants of Canaan became the Arabs. Some of Ham's sons went to Egypt and Etheopia. But it was not the Canaanites. Ishmael was Egyptian via his mother being unmarried and a native Egyptian.

God bless us all is my prayer

Edited December 3, 2012 by Copen

[Etu Malku]

Very interesting point malku yet the question up for grabs is if the murderer is still amoung us or not.

Searches make the story a little hazy near the end, especially when it comes to the terms of his demise, or if dying was even the case

Do u think he may still be amoung us?

Genesis 4:10-16 From now on, you'll be without a home, and you'll spend the rest of your life wandering from place to place.

So, according to scripture it was until the end of Cain's life.

[Etu Malku]

Etu Malku wrote:

"We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel."

My reply:

"And Adam knew Eve, his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain and said, 'I have gotten a man from the LORD.'" Cain was not only from the Lord; but he was a product of Adam knowing his wife, Eve. (In the Bible, many times the word "knew" is used to mean marital intimacy.) God never cursed Cain. God cursed Cain TO FOREVER GO FROM THE EARTH WHERE ABEL'S BLOOD WAS SHED. This means Cain nor his descendants would ever be allowed to come back to live and claim the land we know as Israel. God did not hate Cain because God placed a mark on Cain to protect him from being killed by Gentile strangers. Allowed to live; but never allowed to be the true line of worship which would eventually birth Jesus.

When Cain was forced to go live among Gentile strangers Cain eventually married a Gentile who was proud enough of his name to see some version of his name handed down through the centuries, example: Tubal-Cain and Canaan. Apparently, Noah, son, Ham married a descendant woman of Cain for they named their son, Canaan. A part of that land was named Canaan after him. From the Mediterranean eastward to the western borders of the Dead Sea. But Canaan had been cursed to be a servant of the descendants of Japheth, (Gentile) and Shem (Jews). The Canaanites were still trying to get it all back. But it wasn't allowed to be. The descendants of Canaan became the Arabs. Some of Ham's sons went to Egypt and Etheopia. But it was not the Canaanites. Ishmael was Egyptian via his mother being unmarried and a native Egyptian.

God bless us all is my prayer

According to the Babylonian Talmud, Mesopotamian texts, the Alphabet of Ben Sira, the Dead Sea Scrolls' Songs of the Sage, the Aggadic midrashim, the Zohar and Jewish mysticism, Cain is the child of Adam's first wife, Lilith.

[willowdreams]

heh, and this place cain went to.. found a wife... had children.. built a city..

where were these people from if adam and eve was 'all you get' and their children?

Sometimes the story telling of cain makes one think of a first vampire (said with tongue in cheek), the bible did not say cain could not die. just not be slain at the hands of another, totally different things.

the bible does not tell how every one of their main characters die, yet we do not believe they still live.

at no point in the bible was it written/said that cain would/could not die. just that if anyone murdered him they would be punished.

[Copen]

According to the Babylonian Talmud, Mesopotamian texts, the Alphabet of Ben Sira, the Dead Sea Scrolls' Songs of the Sage, the Aggadic midrashim, the Zohar and Jewish mysticism, Cain is the child of Adam's first wife, Lilith.

Looks like you referenced everything but the Bible. I think that's the problem.

God bless.

[Melo -]

Thank you guys, you're a great help

[JGirl]

Very interesting point malku yet the question up for grabs is if the murderer is still amoung us or not.

Searches make the story a little hazy near the end, especially when it comes to the terms of his demise, or if dying was even the case

Do u think he may still be amoung us?

no but countless other real murderers are.

[Copen]

heh, and this place cain went to.. found a wife... had children.. built a city..

where were these people from if adam and eve was 'all you get' and their children?

If you read any of my posts you will read that I write: Gentiles were created Day Six as male and female. Two males and two females of black and two males and two females of white - both were Gentiles. The very word Gentiles tells that they were the first people. Gen: means beginning multiplier. Tiles is pieces of baked clay. Gen-tiles!

They had children. Why two couples of black? Because the black race cannot evolve into very black from white or medium white. The very very black offspring always comes from parents who are very very black and they too came from parents themselves who were very very black. Separated by continents, the blacks prove this is true.

Cain was scared to death to go among these strangers. But God loved him and protected him with a mark so that no one would kill him. He married a Gentile in the land of Nod, which most seem to think it is in the land later called Babylonia because of the cites that were named were in that area. Eventually, he grew old and died just like everybody else. "All have come short of the glory of God. All must die."

Adam and Eva were the first Jews. At the time Cain was cast out of Israel, Adam and Eva had no daughters. Plus, from the moment Adam laid eyes on Eva he said must have said - Wow, because he named her Wo-man because she taken out of Man. She was the first clone. She had his exact same DNA. She was his bone and flesh. Blood is manufactured in the bone.

Adam made the first God inspired prohibition against incest. "Therefore ...." What's the word Therefore there for? It is concerning Woman being his bones and flesh. "Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh."

The most obvious way to get a wife that is one flesh with the man is to marry a sister. But Adam said, No, you may not marry a sister, the offspring of your father and your mother. But by cleaving to her you two will become one flesh. Adam didn't mention bones.

God is the same. Incest has always been a sin. God had told male and female to multiply. The only way their children could do this and not commit incest was to have another couple who would have children to grow up and marry each other.

What kind of a blessing could it be if the only way to multiply would have been through incest? WRONG!

Now let me give you one more reason to know that Adam and Eva were the first Jews. God said, "I will put enmity, (hostility), between thee, (the serpent), and the woman and between thy seed and her seed..." This has proved to be true down through the ages. The Jews have been persecuted more than any other race on the face of the earth. And because of this continual persecution the Jews would have to bear, God also told the Jewish woman, "I will greatly multiply thy SORROW and thy conception; in SORROW thou shalt bring forth children..."

There's a nine month difference in sorrow at conception and pain at child birth. God was not talking about pain. He was saying the Jews would continually be sorrowful at bringing a child into this world to face persecution. Adam and Eva were the first Jews. Not called that at that time; but that is who they were.

God bless us all is my prayer.

[JGirl]

"

Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the LORD."

" (

Genesis 4:1

).

[ZaraKitty]

If he is still alive, or 'among us' as you say, he would be a shriveled husk and too wrinkly to identify. You can logic your way out of this among us question, really.

[Abramelin]

So im not a religious nut, and I havent really looked it up much but

Does anyone know what happened to thr first murderer Cain who slain his brother out of jealousy? The story I know says god himslef was so heated at the act that he or she, brandished the ''mark of cain" unto the individual who was then cursed to.....and this is where I get confuzzled, because its never clear about where he died or even if he died at at, u know? Was he cursed to walk moung us forever or cursed to live out his days whereas showcasing he was physically betrayal?...i bring this up cuz I hear stupid conspiracy theories from friends and some believe cain is the centerifuge to this 'fascade' orgaylluminatti or watever.

And the absolute last thing u hear of Cain is that he took part in building some obscure and insignificant city,then well....nothing.

Anyone in this forum have any advanced knowledge of this that may help me fill in the gaps so I can shut up or nut up to these wild accusations?

I wont lie, im really interested what exactly happened... Thanks

Tubal-Cain has already been mentioned.

Tubal-Cain is an important Biblical figure in Masonic rituals:

Although the name Tubal-cain appears regularly in all our Old Charges, it should be noted that the name did not come into our ritual until a comparatively late date, c. 1745; there is no printed evidence of that name in the Masonic ritual earlier than 1745, but recently discovered transcripts of evidence given to the Portuguese Inquisition authorities suggest that the name was in use in a Lodge of Irishmen at Lisbon as early as 1738. (AQC 84, p.93)

http://grandlodgeofiowa.org/docs/Symbolism/Tubal.pdf

And then there is the legend about the "Eternal Wanderer". Some say it was a Jew who didn't want to help Jesus who was on his way to be crucified. And as punishment this Jew was cursed to be wandering all over the earth for eternity. He is then also called the "Wandering Jew" (and known among many names, just Google).

Others say this "Eternal Wanderer" is no one else but Cain.

[Abramelin]

Just to add:

This "Eternal Wanderer" shows up in many old and new religions, cults, and other spiritual groups.

Khidr, or The Verdant One in Islam,

The Green Knight in Arthurian legends.

He shows up in the Mormon religion (not sure if it's in the Book of Mormon itself, or later legends/stories surrounding Smith),

He shows up in Carlos Castaneda's books as "the Tenant" or the "Death Defier".

As "Wandering Jew" he's also known a Carthaphilos (a servant of Pilate who struck Jesus to make him move faster), Elias, Isaac Lake'dion or Laquedem, and I know I forgot some.

Some just lump all this together in one name and person : Cain.

[Ciss]

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

The eating of the Forbidden Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a metaphor in that this encounter of Eve and the Serpent, the consumption of the fruit is that of the Prince of Darkness, then known as Belial, planting the seed in Eve with what will be her first child, Cain.

For Belial knew that in order to save Mankind from the chains of this jealous and violent god, that Man must possess the Gnosis enabling Him towards Apotheosis "then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods," (GEN 3:5)

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't.

Abel would be the ‘natural' child of Adam with Eve, hence the sibling rivalry between Cain and Abel. Furthermore, the reasoning behind God not accepting Cain's equally good sacrificial offering of the Earth (Belial) and His acceptance of Abel's blood sacrifice.

For this Cain would take the life of Abel in defiance of God, and set himself apart from all of God and his Creation, to walk in isolation that of his own Path, the Left Hand Path.

And in hindsight, God wrought with guilt over instigating Abel's death, grants Cain amnesty.

In time Cain and his wife gave birth to Enoch and Created the city of Enoch all its inhabitants. Again, we see the metaphor for the Left Hand Path, of separating from God's Will and Creation and embracing Our Will and designing our own Creation (City of Enoch).

Doesn't say God was pleased with Abel's offering, the word used is sha`ah ..says he looked away/ look in dismay...just because I respect something does not mean that I agree with it..respect is allowance...

Thus God did not have that same reaction to Cain's offering...

Makes you wonder where they come up with the idea of offering to begin with...but non the less it set the course for doing such things..

[aryannatimothy]

Very interesting discussion here. Do you believe that since Cain's bloodline still survives, it's a bloodline of murderers? What about education and change? Don't all men have the tendency to be good and bad regardless of what bloodline you came? We can also be educated to be better people? What do you think?

[Etu Malku]

Very interesting discussion here. Do you believe that since Cain's bloodline still survives, it's a bloodline of murderers? What about education and change? Don't all men have the tendency to be good and bad regardless of what bloodline you came? We can also be educated to be better people? What do you think?

Talk about bloodline of murderers? LOL . . . there exists no more bloodshed anywhere than in the Christian bible under the direction of its god. But you seem to be missing the point that this story is a metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers.

[Abramelin]

Just to add:

This "Eternal Wanderer" shows up in many old and new religions, cults, and other spiritual groups.

Khidr, or The Verdant One in Islam,

The Green Knight in Arthurian legends.

He shows up in the Mormon religion (not sure if it's in the Book of Mormon itself, or later legends/stories surrounding Smith),

He shows up in Carlos Castaneda's books as "the Tenant" or the "Death Defier".

As "Wandering Jew" he's also known a Carthaphilos (a servant of Pilate who struck Jesus to make him move faster), Elias, Isaac Lake'dion or Laquedem, and I know I forgot some.

Some just lump all this together in one name and person : Cain.

I forgot to say that "Nod", the land 'east of Eden' to which Cain went, means "Wander" in Hebrew.

[Etu Malku]

I forgot to say that "Nod", the land 'east of Eden' to which Cain went, means "Wander" in Hebrew.

Well sheeet thanks, that had so much to add to the discussion!

[Abramelin]

Well sheeet thanks, that had so much to add to the discussion!

It did. Check the OP.