Tantalising Testimony

[TheMacGuffin]

It's amusing to see how affected some people get when they come in here. That is when they're not 'perplexed', 'befuddled', 'dumbfounded', 'confused' or 'baffled' in addition to 'sad', really.

A lot of them really think they know something, too, but in reality they know only what they've been told to think.

The reality is quite different, but they don't really need to know that. Just tell them that it's all balloons, optical illusions and missiles and that's good enough for government work. None of the people who really knew anything about UFOs ever believed that for a second.

Edited November 30, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[Matt Vinyl]

I think I know what I've been told, but do I really know what I think I've been told?

I recall a question that came up when I was at school, and eight years old. The teacher asked about evidence of a miracle? He went round the class and I was third from last. The question never got to the final two.

There were answers about crying statues, epic sights in the sky.

Mine was: Me. Being here. Talking to you.

That's a miracle.

(Again, really apologise for anything OT. Had a tough day and needed a vessel to release (legally, lol!)

[zoser]

Corsica France 1971

Another brief sighting from the archives but nonetheless interesting.

A family who had recently purchased a new home in the northern part of the French island of Corsica, were preparing their camera to take a picture of the new house when one of the party noticed a glint in the sky and looked up.

They all looked up to see a shiny, metallic object glinting brilliantly where it caught the sun's rays in the clear blue sky.

The object was disc-shaped and had a low-profile curved dome on the top, with some kind of oval-shaped or rounded-rectangular black marks or openings around its sides.

[zoser]

Comparing Two Cases

Remember this case from Shanghai in 2006?

I remember watching it before joining UM and being quite impressed with it. However I read where someone was convinced that it was a hoax. Whether that has satisfactorily been proved I don't know. Maybe someone would be kind enough to advise.

Now take a look at this image taken in Indiana in 2008:

Read more on the Indiana case:

http://www.ufocasebook.com/bestufopictures11.html

The resemblance is pretty startling.

Here are zoomed in shots from the two cases:

Shanghai:

Indiana:

So what's going on? Same CGI or same UFO?

[Matt Vinyl]

Interesting pics. Will read further regarding that Indiana case, for sure...

Interesting pics. Will read further regarding that Indiana case, for sure...

[psyche101]

Heh, Psyche, those images remind me a bit of:

Hmm, bio-mechanical craft? There's a thought...

PS: Image is of one of a Combine gunship from the game Half Life 2.

It's a great concept, Moya from Farscape is biological

And species 8472 from Star Trek Voyager come from fluidic space and have Bio sips

It is a fascinating concept of fast neuro technology that is amazingly actually quite old. It goes back as far as 1953 when Robert Sheckly proposed galatic races that had all come together to form one big ship - each race creating a portion of it. Our function was the FTL drive

[psyche101]

Surely the obvious answer to that is that Extraterretrial technology would surely be far in advance of ours, and I really don't think it would that be that much of a leap to suppose that they'd have developed AI?

To the best of my knowledge, AI is still pretty limited. Like I say, computers are not smart, they are just fast. I do not know if merely numbers can get that far, but the next phase of quantum computing I hope will make this area a bit clearer. It might be an answer, it might be a dead end. The proposed robots in Alien Planet were restricted the the thinking power of a 4 year old. And I thought it was a decent proposal.

Besides, these probes would not necessarily want, or need, to evade the entire planet; just pop up here & there unobtrusively. Something the size of a small microwave oven would only be noticed by anyone who happened to be immediately in the vicinity when it did pop up, and would probably be unnoticed by the Military. Machines also break down, have accidents, all sorts of things, but we do not have one, you say? Well, there've been plenty of reports of UFO crashes, haven't they.... I'm sure we could all think of at least one ..

That is not what we are talking about though. There is not hundreds of reports of small microwave oven devices that just blink at people. And I feel that if that was the case one would have been "Caught" by now in som irrefutable fashion. What we get are reports of discs 8-60 feet across for the most part with a smattering of variety of shapes thrown in. And people are claiming to see entities.

Every single report of a UFO crash that has been investigated has turned up nothing short of rubbish. I am afraid that with my disposition I require a bit more than ghost stories to consider that option. And yet again, look at Roswell , Aurora bodies show up in the reports. The only crash I can think of right now that would fit your bill would be the Kecksburg incident, and I am 100% convinced that had absolutely nothing to do with ET.

But as the concept of physical travel is "intellectualised" to be shown to be not viable, robotics and communications will slowly take over. What I do think you have accurately predicted is the next "evolution" of the ETH. When physical travel is finally shown to be the banana that it is, this ideal is what will shape future ETH claims.

As long as we are discussing an ideal, and not a proposal, it's certainly something to ponder. But even if you were one day vindicated, and it was exactly what ET is doing right now, just how many actual reported claims do you think this would cover considering claims of larger sizes and vehicle inhabitants?

[psyche101]

That's no way to talk about psyche's posts!

Oh, rather the card aren't we.

[psyche101]

I think I know what I've been told, but do I really know what I think I've been told?

I recall a question that came up when I was at school, and eight years old. The teacher asked about evidence of a miracle? He went round the class and I was third from last. The question never got to the final two.

There were answers about crying statues, epic sights in the sky.

Mine was: Me. Being here. Talking to you.

That's a miracle.

(Again, really apologise for anything OT. Had a tough day and needed a vessel to release (legally, lol!)

You know, that might well be one of the more insightful posts in this whole thread Matt.

That sobering response, mundane as it is, is equally powerful and amazing, It depends on what perspetive one affords oneself.

Man is more than just "here". I once saw us described as "The Universe has developed sentience and is wondering about itself".

We do not need aliens to give us answers, we need time and patience, and a will to resolve them honestly.

[DONTEATUS]

Indeed psyche 101 we need Lots more thinkers and dreamers on this world We just maybe the Star Travelers the ones that seed the Universe ! Time is just a point of view.!

[psyche101]

Indeed psyche 101 we need Lots more thinkers and dreamers on this world We just maybe the Star Travelers the ones that seed the Universe ! Time is just a point of view.!

Indeed, and despite my hesitance to speculate freely, when it is controlled it can be valuable.

But that is where things go off the rails. Some people will speculate that due the the number of stars in the Universe life must exist. Then we have those that go not a step, but several miles out in fornt and jump in with ET Is here and he is in league with the Government, because someone has pointed out the stars in the Galaxy.

Plenty of room for dreamers, but I reckon there is nothing wrong with doing it right, like example one as opposed to example two above. However I am going to dream tonight of Jeanette Scott and 7 of 9. And I think that's pretty constructive.

[Space Commander Travis]

To the best of my knowledge, AI is still pretty limited. Like I say, computers are not smart, they are just fast. I do not know if merely numbers can get that far, but the next phase of quantum computing I hope will make this area a bit clearer. It might be an answer, it might be a dead end. The proposed robots in Alien Planet were restricted the the thinking power of a 4 year old. And I thought it was a decent proposal.

Again, as happens all the time, this is assessing things by our technology. Given how rapidly technolology is developing here, I really don't think it need be utterly incredible that some race which surely you'd agree must be technologically much more advacned would have attained a much more advanced level of AI than we have so far? And that's assuming that they must be robotic devices; what if they're some kind of hybrid biological/technological device? A device with a biological Brain?

That is not what we are talking about though. There is not hundreds of reports of small microwave oven devices that just blink at people. And I feel that if that was the case one would have been "Caught" by now in som irrefutable fashion. What we get are reports of discs 8-60 feet across for the most part with a smattering of variety of shapes thrown in. And people are claiming to see entities.

This is putting a remarkable amount of faith in eyewitness reports; I hope Zoser would be pleased. Doesn't such a wide range suggest that it's more likely that it's virtually impossible to estimate the size of something with any accuracy, if you have no idea of how it might be away, for example?

Every single report of a UFO crash that has been investigated has turned up nothing short of rubbish. I am afraid that with my disposition I require a bit more than ghost stories to consider that option. And yet again, look at Roswell , Aurora bodies show up in the reports.

At Roswell, they were not added in until much later; There was no mention of any such thing in the initial reports, was there; bandwagon jumping again.

[TheMacGuffin]

Here a strange UFO report from 1958, which once again shows their interest in all things nuclear, which the military always knew about.

I don't say that the aliens actually recovered the H-bomb that was jettisoned after these planes collided, only that nuclear weapons always seemed to get their attention.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Falienxfiles.com%2Fhydrogen-bomb-lost-by-air-force-is-recovered-by-a-ufo&ei=94G8UJWQBqmt0AGUqYGADQ&usg=AFQjCNGzs_ATYxgCSnE-bisGCZjvhZirKw&sig2=UUs6xHyl1FEZ4afntFM2xg

We were sitting outside our condo in Tybee Island in a residential complex (not beach front). My husband and I walked towards the street to investigate 3 police cars making a traffic stop. It was loud and we heard their radios. We saw their flashing blue lights through the trees. Since nothing really happens here, it is a relatively quiet community (especially during the winter) we wanted to see what the commotion was about. So it was nothing but police being bored making a stop. We turned around and started walking past back to our condo at the end of the complex. We caught the sky because it was so bright and pretty.

I always am attracted to Orion. So that is what I always find myself looking at and I asked my husband to look up at how pretty it was here (we just moved!) So we were looking up at the pretty stars and I was looking at Orion's Belt as usual and two very dark fast grayish black objects barely visible in the shape of a boomerang caught our eyes. The first one flew to the south very fast, then I asked him if he saw what I did. Then another craft appeared and darted in a criss-cross pattern and gave off an off white glow and disappeared. We thought they may have been bats (a UFO isn’t the first thing we wanted to settle on as an explanation) but there was no flapping and they were too high up and too big to be a bat and bats don’t reflect light like that and disappear into nothing (since it was a clear sky). It was very beautiful. And almost unnoticeable. Im glad we saw it! I’ve never seen anything like this before.

KENS NOTE: The Tybee Island B-47 crash was an incident on February 5, 1958, in which the United States Air Force lost a 7,600-pound (3,400 kg) Mark 15hydrogen bomb in the waters off Tybee Island near Savannah, Georgia, USA. During a practice exercise the B-47 bomber carrying it collided in midair with an F-86 fighter plane. To prevent a detonation in the event of a crash and to save the aircrew, the bomb was jettisoned. Following several unsuccessful searches, the bomb was presumed lost somewhere in Wassaw Sound off the shores of Tybee Island.

[TheMacGuffin]

Now here's a weird one, a case from a group of amateur astronomers. (Who says they don't see UFOs?) It was so strange that even seasoned UFO investigators didn't know what to make of it--UFOs circling the Moon and Saturn--or appearing to do so, I should say.

They seemed to be putting on a show for them, just another of those "here we are" things. Did they know they were being observed? I often think that must be the case.

Michael Swords called these "alignment cases", when the UFOs seem aware of being observed and put on a display.

http://docs.google.c...KMZFGtO7XSNWFlw

http://www.cufos.org/swords2.pdf

Edited December 3, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[Matt Vinyl]

You know, that might well be one of the more insightful posts in this whole thread Matt.

That sobering response, mundane as it is, is equally powerful and amazing, It depends on what perspetive one affords oneself.

Man is more than just "here". I once saw us described as "The Universe has developed sentience and is wondering about itself".

We do not need aliens to give us answers, we need time and patience, and a will to resolve them honestly.

Thanks Psyche!

Looking back at it sober, I was dreading what I had written - but no, it's exactly how I recall that day, way back at school.

PS: I don't get drunk all the time, but when I do - I should refrain from connecting to the internet.

We do not need aliens to give us answers, we need time and patience, and a will to resolve them honestly.

That's a very interesting outlook - one which you could say is playing itself out infront of us. (Reminds me a bit of the science vs bible 'answers' debate - but that's for another thread (in the 'Religion' forum.))

[Matt Vinyl]

To prevent a detonation in the event of a crash and to save the aircrew, the bomb was jettisoned. Following several unsuccessful searches, the bomb was presumed lost somewhere in Wassaw Sound off the shores of Tybee Island.

Heh, just saw this. Bit of a concern to ponder the possibility that there's a hydrogen bomb laying around somewhere, just kicking it's heels!

[synchronomy]

KENS NOTE: The Tybee Island B-47 crash was an incident on February 5, 1958, in which the United States Air Force lost a 7,600-pound (3,400 kg) Mark 15hydrogen bomb in the waters off Tybee Island near Savannah, Georgia, USA. During a practice exercise the B-47 bomber carrying it collided in midair with an F-86 fighter plane. To prevent a detonation in the event of a crash and to save the aircrew, the bomb was jettisoned. Following several unsuccessful searches, the bomb was presumed lost somewhere in Wassaw Sound off the shores of Tybee Island.

One would think that if this event occured back in '58, and search attempts were unsuccessful, with the advent of newer technologies the search would be renewed.

Do you have any links to show that there may have been continued search efforts in recent years?

I don't doubt that the event may have happened, but it seems an unlikely scenario that the military would just give up and close the file leaving that kind of technology on the ocean floor for someone to stumble upon in later years.

[Space Commander Travis]

the detonation they were worried about would almost certainly just have been the detonator (which I believe is a fairly substantial comventional bomb in its own right). Unless it had been heading for a live testing sight with the intention of dropping it for real, there's no way a live bomb ready for dropping would be flown around the skies.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

the detonation they were worried about would almost certainly just have been the detonator (which I believe is a fairly substantial comventional bomb in its own right). Unless it had been heading for a live testing sight with the intention of dropping it for real, there's no way a live bomb ready for dropping would be flown around the skies.

Yeah I couldnt see that happening either, plus with them just giving up the search would make me think that it wasent that serious of a loss

[zoser]

Yeah I couldnt see that happening either, plus with them just giving up the search would make me think that it wasent that serious of a loss

Didn't the US continually mobilise a fleet of nuclear bombers in the days of the cold war? The B52? Due to the relatively high alerts status at that time they must have been armed? Or was the final arming a last minute operation?

Edited December 3, 2012 by zoser

[Space Commander Travis]

Didn't the US continually mobilise a fleet of nuclear bombers in the days of the cold war? The B52? Due to the relatively high alerts status at that time they must have been armed? Or was the final arming a last minute operation?

Oh yes, but they'd have to have the fuses set before they dropped them, and that would only be done at the very last minute. Just flying round with one in the bomb bay, it wouldn't be set, so the most that would happen (in theory) would be that the Detonator would go off. Which did happen, as I recall, on at least one occasion, and made a pretty big hole itself.

[synchronomy]

Didn't the US continually mobilise a fleet of nuclear bombers in the days of the cold war? The B52? Due to the relatively high alerts status at that time they must have been armed? Or was the final arming a last minute operation?

From what I've heard, although the Cold War is over, the Russians constantly test our (Canadian) Northern Borders by flying bombers along our border. They are intercepted and led away in a gentlemanly way by our (now vintage) F-18's.

I'm not sure about US bombers today, but at one time it seemed to be common knowledge here that nuclear capable B-52's maintained a 24 hour presence over Alaska, Beaufort Sea and Bering Sea region.

Although the Cold War is over, I'm sure there's still a gamma particle somewhere in the World with my name on it, since I'm living in the nations capital with National Defence Headquarters just down the street.

[zoser]

Kyrgyzstan - 1991

Here is a case that is little known but fascinating.

The Shaitan Mazar is located in the Tien Shan Mountains of Kyrgyzstan near the border of China.

The incident of Shaitan Mazar began on August 28, 1991, at shortly before 5:00 P.M.

An extremely large object approximately 600 meters long, and 110 meters in diameter appeared over the Caspian Sea, showing on radar screens of the tracking station on the Mangyshlak peninsula. Radar computations showed the object moving at the speed of 6,300 miles per hour, at an altitude of 21,000 feet.

Read more:

http://www.ufocasebook.com/Russia.html

[Space Commander Travis]

i have to say, that looks worryingly like a, er, device for purposes of, er, entertaining one's, er., self ........

[zoser]

i have to say, that looks worryingly like a, er, device for purposes of, er, entertaining one's, er., self ........

LOL

I have wondered if all ET's have gender. The type that met Travis Walton did. The female obviously had no need for a sports bra:

Edited December 3, 2012 by zoser