Could Atlantis be under Greenland's Ice?

[Mario Dantas]

Die Checker,

“I think your comparison with the Indian sub-continent is a faulty one since there is clear evidence off shore of how, when and where India was moving. Something we have not seen in the Atlantic other then within the already shown hundreds of millions of years timeline for the geology of Greenland.

Even if you could show the movement of India was relational to Greenland, you'd still have to show that humans were around and formed societies and a tool using culture. “

I understand what you are saying, but that is part of what we had already discussed here (since this is a “no time” experiment). Sorry, i cannot leave this “timeless” experiment, otherwise everything falls apart. It only functions when the “current” time scale does not tell when events did happen. You really think that in the eventuality of such an event ever happened, you would be able to conclude that it did, only by regular observation of what surrounds us?

Millions of years could really mean a few minutes or hours. Nobody was actually there to check it, correct? I do not mean to say that it (time scale) is incorrect, but rather that it could be wrong...

Is it not possible for geological time scale to be wrong? Are you absolutely sure dating is correct?

Many scientists claim that there should not be a term like “absolute dating”, since nothing is absolute...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited November 21, 2012 by Mario Dantas

[+DieChecker]

The Jedi say everything is a matter of perspective... So they can feel better about openly lying to people.”

It is only an experiment and i am not lying about anything!

True. And I really did not mean to call you a liar. I meant only to imply that just because you are calling it an experiment does not make any of your assumptions true.

[+DieChecker]

Millions of years could really mean a few minutes or hours. Nobody was actually there to check it, correct? I do not mean to say that it (time scale) is incorrect, but rather that it could be wrong...

Is it not possible for geological time scale to be wrong? Are you absolutely sure dating is correct?

Many scientists claim that there should not be a term like “absolute dating”, since nothing is absolute...

What you are saying is possible, just very, very unlikely. To the degree where in math it is called... Approaching zero. Not exactly zero, but so close that there could be no physical representation that is approprate. Perhaps much like saying there is a chance of your hand passing through a tabletop. Which some levels of physics does allow to happen... yet I've never ever heard of this happening in any form to anyone I've ever heard of or met.

Your ideas about time mesh very well with some Christian scholars who argue Creationism based on altered time scales over the existance of the universe. That is one reason I asked if you were a Creationist Christian. Some say the 7 days in Genesis (in the Bible) represent not Earth Days, but time frames. One where the universe is created (day1), and then the settling of matter into clumps and elements, then the creation of planets... and so on. Your ideas about how time should be thought of as elastic seem to mesh with that kind of thinking... at least to me.

[cormac mac airt]

Cormac,

“Your ignoring the geochronology of the North Atlantic and any relationship to humans is irrelevant to the facts.”

But that can be, nevertheless, very relevant to my experiment.

“You're constrained by the story as it is written, not by what you want it to say.”

I absolutely agree that the story by Plato must be taken “as is” and not be modified to fit everybody’s needs. But you are unjustly accusing me of altering Plato’s story to my necessity, but that cannot be true. One of my main concerns regarding Atlantis is the absolute correspondence (more than in any theory) between Plato’s account and today’s geologic reality.

Regards,

Mario Dantas

But you are altering Plato's story as he says exactly where, when and how his Atlantis was located and disappeared. You've ignored what he wrote in order to substitute a moving landmass (Greenland). So no, it's rather a just accusation. You can't reinterpret what he says and then claim you're being true to what he said. It doesn't work that way.

cormac

Edited November 21, 2012 by cormac mac airt

[Mario Dantas]

kmt_sesh,

I hope i will not make a fool of myself...

When you said:

“Mario, I understand it must be frustrating to be under assault like this, but try to see this from our perspective.

What is the purpose of a "thought experiment" that flatly ignores so much basic science, as well as history? What do you hope to arrive at with a scenario that cannot be regarded as realistic to begin with? You're asking us to set aside all that is known in the fields of geology, plate tectonics, archaeology, history and the like—but we cannot set them aside because they are what frame any such hypothesis.

This is how it's bound to continue. You're asking too much of everyone.”

It worries me a lot to know people are considering my theory, an abomination. Nevertheless, it is always good to be able to discuss these issues, at some point. I thank you for taking time to give a sincere and valuable feedback.

Imagine that we wanted to know whether any seizable impacting event took place or not, recently on earth. The first extinction event we find in the geological timescale, is the Pleistocene/Holocene frontier. What terminated the last glacial period ?

Palaeocycles

The sum of transient factors acting at the Earth's surface is cyclical: climate, ocean currents and other movements, wind currents, temperature, etc. The waveform response comes from the underlying cyclical motions of the planet, which eventually drag all the transients into harmony with them. The repeated glaciations of the Pleistocene were caused by the same factors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene

Milankovitch cycles

“Glaciation in the Pleistocene was a series of glacials and interglacials, stadials and interstadials, mirroring periodic changes in climate. The main factor at work in climate cycling is now believed to be Milankovitch cycles. These are periodic variations in regional and planetary solar radiation reaching the Earth caused by several repeating changes in the Earth's motion.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene

What happened to all the ice that existed then? Are there not also evidences indicating that the Sahara desert was formed in the same period? Moreover, Plato's Critias mentions that the Atlantic became a muddy place, 10.000 BC:

“and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean.”

likewise Timaeus, explicitly says that a shoal of mud is a consequence of the island’s disappearance:

“the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. ”

Furthermore, when he refers to a impacting event related to the said mud:

“once upon a time Paethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth”

An impacting event would have to have generated a great deal of mud, since there was a load of ice on earth...

But among many other indications are the geoid map information on gravitational anomalies of the whole world’s surface:

There seems to be an underwater impact signal in all the geoid maps, in the Indian ocean (near NinetyEast Ridge). It also appears that a huge anomaly is located in front of Gibraltar, in the Atlantic ocean floor.

Now, completely changing subject, i recently uploaded some photographs of a quarry in Lazareto, S. Vicente island (a part of the Leeward group, in the Cape Verde islands):

https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722/Lazareto_SV_CapeVerde

All photographs taken by a coworker (Eng. Pulidio Morais)

It represents a major “pocket” deposit of limestone, or sandstone within a fairly recent volcanic region. The thickness and extension of the limestone are impressive. I ask, how come such small islands like the Macaronesia bear these enormous amounts of limestone?

What ecosystem nourished the huge number of very large mammalia that existed in the Pleistocene? Every animal was larger than their successors (in the Holocene), therefore, this must represent the existence of such an environment capable of providing a great deal food, for every animal, more or less what Critias says:

“and now I must endeavour to represent the nature and arrangement of the rest of the land. The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north. The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts, abundant for each and every kind of work.”

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

I believe Atlantis was in front of Gibraltar for a reason, there is an extensive continental fit between three continents (Greenland, Africa and Iberian Peninsula):

“He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory. And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.”

I have to think that Plato’s reference to the Iberian Peninsula (Gadeirus) and Atlantis have an incredible geographic resemblance with the models shown above...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited November 29, 2012 by Mario Dantas

[Mario Dantas]

Why would the Macaronesia (Makaron Nesoi), or Fortunate isles (of the Blessed) have also a continental fit with Greenland?

Or why south Greenland's have an immense geologic affinity with the Cape Verde islands and the rest of the Macaronesia? This is a fact! Metamorphic rocks should be expected to exist in places where huge increments in temperature occured.

https://lh3.googleus.../Agreenland.jpg

https://lh3.googleus...y%20islands.jpg

https://lh4.googleus.../westafrica.jpg

https://lh5.googleus...20/Atlantis.jpg

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited December 1, 2012 by kmt_sesh

[Mario Dantas]

"The climate of the Macaronesian islands ranges from Mediterranean in the Azores and Madeira to arid in Cape Verde. The Portuguese archipelagos of the Azores and Madeira have a generally cooler climate and higher rainfall than the Canaries and Cape Verde. The laurisilva forests of Macaronesia are a type of mountain cloud forest with relicts species of a vegetation type which originally covered much of the Mediterranean Basin when the climate of the region was more humid and evolved to adapt in islanders conditions.

The islands have a unique biogeography, and are home to several distinct plant and animal communities. The jumping spider genus Macaroeris is named after Macaronesia. None of the Macaronesian islands were part of a continent, so the native plants and animals reached the islands via long-distance dispersal. Laurel-leaved forests, called laurisilva, once covered most of the Azores, Madeira, and parts of the Canaries between 400–1200 m altitude (the eastern Canaries and Cape Verde being too dry). These forests resemble the ancient forests that covered the Mediterranean basin and northwestern Africa before cooling and drying of the ice ages. Trees of the genera Apollonias (Lauraceae), Clethra (Clethraceae), Dracaena (Ruscaceae), Ocotea (Lauraceae), Persea (Lauraceae), and Picconia (Oleaceae), which are found in the Macaronesian laurel forests, are also known from fossil evidence to have lived around the Mediterranean before the ice ages."

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Macaronesia

With regards to the actual origin of the Laurssilva forest found only in Macaronesia. The fossils of Laurissilva (in the Mediterranean) should be explained if there existed an important region (in front of Gibraltar) with the original Laurissilva forests that later got quickly covered by sediment, probably when (hypothetically) the Sahara took form. The two events are related and of the same kind, as they involve fossils and fossilization processes. The only living Laurissilva forests are found in the Macaronesia, fossilized Laurissilva is found in the Mediterranean region (north of Africa and south of Europe and the Middle East).

Edited December 1, 2012 by kmt_sesh

[Mario Dantas]

The islands of Macaronesia are volcanic in origin, and are thought to be the product of several geologic hotspots.

The climate of the Macaronesian islands ranges from Mediterranean in the Azores and Madeira to arid in Cape Verde. The Portuguese archipelagos of the Azores and Madeira have a generally cooler climate and higher rainfall than the Canaries and Cape Verde. The laurisilva forests of Macaronesia are a type of mountain cloud forest with relicts species of a vegetation type which originally covered much of the Mediterranean Basin when the climate of the region was more humid and evolved to adapt in islanders conditions.

The islands have a unique biogeography, and are home to several distinct plant and animal communities. The jumping spider genus Macaroeris is named after Macaronesia. None of the Macaronesian islands were part of a continent, so the native plants and animals reached the islands via long-distance dispersal. Laurel-leaved forests, called laurisilva, once covered most of the Azores, Madeira, and parts of the Canaries between 400–1200 m altitude (the eastern Canaries and Cape Verde being too dry). These forests resemble the ancient forests that covered the Mediterranean basin and northwestern Africa before cooling and drying of the ice ages. Trees of the genera Apollonias (Lauraceae), Clethra (Clethraceae), Dracaena (Ruscaceae), Ocotea (Lauraceae), Persea (Lauraceae), and Picconia (Oleaceae), which are found in the Macaronesian laurel forests, are also known from fossil evidence to have lived around the Mediterranean before the ice ages.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Macaronesia

It is assumed that the Laurissilva forest first existed in the Mediterranean region (north of Africa, south of Europe and the Middle East) and later "migrated" to the Macaronesia (again, under the Occam's Razor principle, it could be that the more simple and direct answer was chosen in detriment of the more complex). What if a catastrophic event caused an "expulsion" of biodiversity that quickly covered both the regions of the Sahara and Mediterranean? These two regions are related not only geographically, but have a same important characteristic, that of the real fossil evidences and their respective fossilization processes. Few of the living Laurissilva forests in the world are found in the Macaronesia. Laurissilva fossils are found in the Mediterranean, in the north of Africa and south of Europe, very likely, as the Saharan and Arabian peninsula were covered by huge deposits of sand and dust.

It is also not true that there are no Laurissilva in the Cape Verde islands. Small Laurissilva forests exist in high altitudes (at nearly 3.000 m there is a sufficient humidity for these plants to grow inspite of the extremely dry weather)

The laurisilva forests are found in the islands of Macaronesia in the eastern Atlantic, in particular the Azores, Madeira Islands, and Canary Islands from 400 to 1200 meters elevation. Trees of the genera Apollonias (Lauraceae), Ocotea (Lauraceae), Persea (Lauraceae), Clethra (Clethraceae), Dracaena (Ruscaceae), and Picconia (Oleaceae) are characteristic.^[12] The Madeira Islands laurel forest was designated a World Heritage Site by UNESCO in 1999.

Millions of years ago, Laurel forests were widespread around the Mediterranean Basin. The drying of the region since the Pliocene, and cooling of the region during the Ice Ages, caused these rainforest to retreat. Some relict Mediterranean laurel forest species, such as Sweet Bay (Laurus nobilis) and European Holly (Ilex aquifolium), are fairly widespread around the Mediterranean basin

http://en.wikipedia....sian_laurisilva

Edited November 29, 2012 by Mario Dantas

[Lion of Judah]

Atlantis was destroyed because they wanted to be more powerful using the omega crystals the same crystals overloaded and atlantis was wiped out

[Abramelin]

Atlantis was destroyed because they wanted to be more powerful using the omega crystals the same crystals overloaded and atlantis was wiped out

That was cooked up by Edgar Cayce, our most notorious rear-end talker (= channeler).

He tickled the imagination of many who wanted to believe, but he was always wrong nevertheless.

[Mario Dantas]

What you are saying is possible, just very, very unlikely. To the degree where in math it is called... Approaching zero. Not exactly zero, but so close that there could be no physical representation that is approprate. Perhaps much like saying there is a chance of your hand passing through a tabletop. Which some levels of physics does allow to happen... yet I've never ever heard of this happening in any form to anyone I've ever heard of or met.

Your ideas about time mesh very well with some Christian scholars who argue Creationism based on altered time scales over the existance of the universe. That is one reason I asked if you were a Creationist Christian. Some say the 7 days in Genesis (in the Bible) represent not Earth Days, but time frames. One where the universe is created (day1), and then the settling of matter into clumps and elements, then the creation of planets... and so on. Your ideas about how time should be thought of as elastic seem to mesh with that kind of thinking... at least to me.

Die Checker,

I don't know what to say, yes it is very unlikely that something happened 10.000 years ago...

Please do not put words in my mouth, nor try to "frame" my persona with creed related issues, sorry! Whether my ideas "mesh" with others, as you put it, i promised myself not to mention anything to do with religion and so i intend to keep. My sole concern regarding Atlantis is to, in fact, prove that a sizable geologic event took place at the end of the Pleistocene, disguised as the end of the last glacial period.

Notice the extreme white/red (maybe between 50 to 90 in the above scale) of the area immediately after Gibraltar, Plato states that the island of Atlantis was located where the largest positive anomaly exists, on earth:

"To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus."

http://classics.mit....to/critias.html'

Was there a Gadeirus facing Gades (Cadiz) and Gibraltar?

http://www.weltderphysik.de/gebiet/planeten/erde/satelliten-zur-erdvermessung/

Why is the region in front of Gibraltar do so anomalous? Why is there an Azores triple junction, meeting the three largest continental plates? One could even easily affirm that the Himalayan orogeny is in some odd way related with said impact, but the facts speak otherwise:

"One of the most striking aspects of the Himalayan orogen is the lateral continuity of its major tectonic elements. The Himalaya is classically divided into four tectonic units that can be followed for more than 2400 km along the belt.[14]

• The Subhimalaya forms the foothills of the Himalayan Range and is essentially composed of Miocene to Pleistocene molassic sediments derived from the erosion of the Himalaya. These molasse deposits, known as the Muree and Siwaliks Formations, are internally folded and imbricated. The Subhimalaya is thrust along the Main Frontal Thrust over the Quaternary alluvium deposited by the rivers coming from the Himalaya (Ganges,Indus, Brahmaputra and others), which demonstrates that the Himalaya is still a very active orogen.
  
• The Lesser Himalaya (LH) is mainly formed by Upper Proterozoic to lower Cambrian detrital sediments from the passive Indian margin intercalated with some granites and acid volcanics (1840 ±70 Ma[15]). These sediments are thrust over the Subhimalaya along the Main Boundary Thrust (MBT). The Lesser Himalaya often appears in tectonic windows (Kishtwar or Larji-Kulu-Rampur windows) within the High Himalaya Crystalline Sequence.
  
• The Central Himalayan Domain, (CHD) or High Himalaya, forms the backbone of the Himalayan orogen and encompasses the areas with the highest topographic relief. It is commonly separated into four zones.
  

• 
  
  • The High Himalayan Crystalline Sequence, HHCS (approximately 30 different names exist in the literature to describe this unit; the most frequently found equivalents are Greater Himalayan Sequence, Tibetan Slab and High Himalayan Crystalline) is a 30-km-thick, medium- to high-grade metamorphic sequence of metasedimentary rocks which are intruded in many places by granites of Ordovician (c. 500 Ma) and early Miocene (c. 22 Ma) age. Although most of the metasediments forming the HHCS are of late Proterozoic to early Cambrian age, much younger metasediments can also be found in several areas (Mesozoic in the Tandi syncline and Warwan region, Permian in the Tschuldo slice, Ordovician to Carboniferous in the Sarchu Area). It is now generally accepted that the metasediments of the HHCS represent themetamorphic equivalents of the sedimentary series forming the base of the overlying Tethys Himalaya. The HHCS forms a major nappewhich is thrust over the Lesser Himalaya along the Main Central Thrust (MCT).
    
  • The Tethys Himalaya (TH) is an approximately 100-km-wide synclinorium formed by strongly folded and imbricated, weakly metamorphosedsedimentary series. Several nappes, termed North Himalayan Nappes[16] have also been described within this unit. An almost complete stratigraphic record ranging from the Upper Proterozoic to the Eocene is preserved within the sediments of the TH. Stratigraphic analysis of these sediments yields important indications on the geological history of the northern continental margin of the Indian continent from its Gondwanian evolution to its continental collision with Eurasia. The transition between the generally low-grade sediments of the Tethys Himalaya and the underlying low- to high-grade rocks of the High Himalayan Crystalline Sequence is usually progressive. But in many places along the Himalayan belt, this transition zone is marked by a major structure, the Central Himalayan Detachment System (also known as South Tibetan Detachment System or North Himalayan Normal Fault) which has indicators of both extension and compression (see 'ongoing geologic studies section below).
    
  • The Nyimaling-Tso Morari Metamorphic Dome, NTMD: In the Ladakh region, the Tethys Himalaya synclinorium passes gradually to the north in a large dome of greenschist to eclogitic metamorphic rocks. As with the HHCS, these metamorphic rocks represent the metamorphic equivalent of the sediments forming the base of the Tethys Himalaya. The Precambrian Phe Formation is also here intruded by several Ordovician (c. 480 Ma[17]) granites.
    
  • The Lamayuru and Markha Units (LMU) are formed by flyschs and olistholiths deposited in a turbiditic environment, on the northern part of the Indian continental slope and in the adjoining Neotethys basin. The age of these sediments ranges from Late Permian to Eocene.
    

  [*]The Indus Suture Zone (ISZ) (or Indus-Yarlung-Tsangpo Suture Zone) defines the zone of collision between the Indian Plate and the Ladakh Batholith (also Transhimalaya or Karakoram-Lhasa Block) to the north. This suture zone is formed by:

• the Ophiolite Mélanges, which are composed of an intercalation of flysch and ophiolites from the Neotethys oceanic crust
  
• the Dras Volcanics, which are relicts of a Late Cretaceous to Late Jurassic volcanic island arc and consist of basalts, dacites, volcanoclastites,pillow lavas and minor radiolarian cherts
  
• the Indus Molasse, which is a continental clastic sequence (with rare interbeds of marine saltwater sediments) comprising alluvial fan, braided stream and fluvio-lacustrine sediments derived mainly from the Ladakh batholith but also from the suture zone itself and the Tethyan Himalaya. These molasses are post-collisional and thus Eocene to post-Eocene.
  
• The Indus Suture Zone represents the northern limit of the Himalaya. Further to the North is the so-called Transhimalaya, or more locally LadakhBatholith, which corresponds essentially to an active margin of Andean type. Widespread volcanism in this volcanic arc was caused by the melting of the mantle at the base of the Tibetan bloc, triggered by the dehydration of the subducting Indian oceanic crust."
  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_the_Himalaya

"

The Indian plate then broke off from Australia and Antarctica in the Early

Cretaceous

(130-125 Ma) with the opening of the "South Indian Ocean". In the Upper Cretaceous (84 Ma), the Indian plate began its very rapid northward drift covering a distance of about 6000 km,

[4]

with the oceanic-oceanic subduction continuing until the final closure of the oceanic basin and the

obduction

of oceanic

ophiolite

onto India and the beginning of continent-continent

tectonic

interaction starting at about 65 Ma in the Central Himalaya.

[5]

The change of the relative speed between the Indian and Asian plates from very fast (18-19.5 cm/yr) to fast (4.5 cm/yr) at about 55 Ma

[6]

is circumstantial support for collision then

. Since then there has been about 2500 km

[7]

[8]

[9]

[10]

of crustal shortening and rotating of India by 45° counterclockwise in Northwestern Himalaya

[11]

to 10°-15° counterclockwise in North Central Nepal

[12]

relative to Asia.

While most of the

oceanic crust

was "simply" subducted below the Tibetan block during the northward motion of India, at least three major mechanisms have been put forward, either separately or jointly, to explain what happened, since collision, to the 2500 km of "missing

continental crust

". The first mechanism also calls upon the subduction of the Indian continental crust below Tibet. Second is the extrusion or escape tectonics mechanism (

Molnar & Tapponnier 1975

) which sees the Indian plate as an indenter that squeezed the

Indochina

block out of its way. The third proposed mechanism is that a large part (~1000 km (

Dewey, Cande & Pitman 1989

) or ~800 to ~1200 km

[13]

) of the 2500 km of crustal shortening was accommodated by thrusting and folding of the sediments of the passive Indian margin together with the deformation of the Tibetan crust.

Even though it is more than reasonable to argue that this huge amount of crustal shortening most probably results from a combination of these three mechanisms, it is nevertheless the last mechanism which created the high topographic relief of the Himalaya.

"

[...]

Topographically, the belt has many superlatives: the highest rate of uplift (nearly 10 mm/year at

Nanga Parbat

), the highest relief (8848 m at Mt.

Everest

Chomolangma), among the highest erosion rates at 2–12 mm/yr,

[3]

the source of some of the greatest rivers and the highest concentration of

glaciers

outside of the

polar regions

.

[...]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_the_Himalaya

Modern plate tectonics, Continental collision, Pillow lavas, subduction, volcanism, metamorphism are just a few key words akin to the Himalayas... Various types of sediment (older and younger), later becoming meta-sedimentary rocks also occur.

The Himalayan orogeny and other events as the Mediterranean Salinity crisis, are perhaps relative to one single geologic inciden (demise of Atlantis)t:

[...]The crux of the matter is the genesis of the Mediterranean basins. When did the Mediterranean basins form? In the Early and Middle Miocene before the Messinian salinity crisis? Or "did the main phase of subsidence occur rather abruptly during the Pleistocene and Holocene". [...]

http://eesc.ldeo.columbia.edu/courses/w4937/Readings/Hsu_et_al_1977.pdf

I became convinced that some of the important geologic features now existing on earth, were created or "resumed" from earlier forms, when this event took place (Pleistocene/Holocene). It is not the most obvious, but the obvious frequently is not the most accurate or precise answer either. The older crust got metamorphosed in such gigantic ways, no one in his right mind would think of it in that way, that is huge convulsions of the crust, with unprecedented speed...

Greenland is in fact very close to Gibraltar, within the whole Atlantic ocean! From Gibraltar to the MAR, or in the direction of the Himalayas, two huge continental plates meet, African and Eurasian plates "and" also face the huge North American plate!

The distance between the Cape Verde and Azores islands is 2650 Km, while Greenland's own length is 2670 km and that is the exact extent of the continental "meeting" or common borders of the north American and African plates, where there lacks a continental fit between the north American and northwest African continental borders.

The epicenter region in the image below, starting from Gibraltar, as a shock wave, eastwards, could perhaps determine whether it was affected by Greenland "bump" against Iberian Peninsula. A net of extremely mountainous regions exist (the Atlas range, etc, etc) along that line of epicenters, ending at the higher altitudes of the Himalayas and merging with the Ring of fire (or so it seems).

Sorry, for this long post!

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited December 1, 2012 by Mario Dantas

[Mario Dantas]

I forgot to mention the length of the Ural mountains is also 2,500 km long and strategically located in case Greenland would've "knocked" Scandinavian peninsula and "wrinkled" the crust where the orogeny of the Urals happens:

"The Ural Mountains extend about 2,500 km (1,600 mi) from the Kara Sea to the Kazakh Steppe along the northern border of Kazakhstan. Vaygach Island and the island of Novaya Zemlya form a further continuation of the chain on the north. Geographically this range marks the northern part of the border between the continents of Europe and Asia. Its highest peak is Mount Narodnaya, approximately 1,895 m (6,217 ft) in elevation^[1]".

While the Scandinavian peninsula itself is aprox. 1850 Km long, probably not matching Greenland's eastern border entirely because maybe it was an island, therefore there wasn't a full contact between the two continental margins:

"^Helle, Knut (2003). "Introduction". The Cambridge History of Scandinavia. Ed. E. I. Kouri et al. Cambridge University Press, 2003. ISBN 0-521-47299-7. p. XXII. "The name Scandinavia was used by classical authors in the first centuries of the Christian era to identify Skåne and the mainland further north which they believed to be an island.""

http://en.wikipedia....avian_Peninsula

The Urals and Scandinavia could be considered like a geologic object and reflection image of a continental collision between Greenland and Scandinavia (island?)...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited December 1, 2012 by Mario Dantas

[Abramelin]

Atlantis was destroyed because they wanted to be more powerful using the omega crystals the same crystals overloaded and atlantis was wiped out

No, they tried to use the sacred "magic wand" from the Wizard of Oz.

[Mario Dantas]

I could not help to post my last composition:

[Abramelin]

I could not help to post my last composition:

Great, lol.

Have you already checked if it fits somewhere in the Pacific?

[mlauzon]

Greenland - the place where no one talks about, is covered by ice a couple miles thick, and only the outer layers of the island are habitable.

No, Atlantis is under Antarctica's ice.

[Mario Dantas]

GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 37, L03302, 6 PP., 2010

doi:10.1029/2009GL041663

North Atlantic geoid high, volcanism and glaciations

Eugenio Carminati

Dipartimento di Scienze della Terra, Università di Roma “La Sapienza,” Rome, Italy

Istituto Geologia Ambientale e Geoingegneria, CNR, Rome, Italy

Carlo Doglioni

Dipartimento di Scienze della Terra, Università di Roma “La Sapienza,” Rome, Italy

Istituto Geologia Ambientale e Geoingegneria, CNR, Rome, Italy

Shallow topography, geoid high and intense volcanism in the northern Mid Atlantic Ridge are interpreted as enhanced by the loading on the adjacent continents by ice caps during upper Cenozoic glaciations. The load of ice packs on the continental lithospheres of North America and northern Europe generated radial mantle flow at depth. In our model, these currents, where flowing from west and east, faced each other below the northern Atlantic, joining together and upwelling. Numerical modeling of this process supports the development of dynamic topography leading to uplift of the sea-floor and inducing a regional geoid high. The upper mantle, being pumped from the deep mantle and rising to a few km shallower than average, may have contributed to larger asthenospheric melting, and to ridge centered excess magmatism, as observed in the Northern Atlantic.

Hello,

Lonie's lament:

https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722/LonnieSLament

Just updated my album collection. These two albums are really another investigation regarding continental fit, in the north Atlantic, this time with topographic, bathymetric and geoid maps. I had mainly worked before with satellite imagery, thus different details were available in the compositions. In my opinion, the abstract above (as well as many other scientific information), speaks of a same event, although differently. Again, without the time “constraint” factor, we can make various suppositions. As we understand the Atlantis demise related by Plato, we should question whether this huge anomaly (strongest positive anomaly in the world) has or not anything to do with said Atlantis disappearance. Plato’s location is particularly interesting (with relation to the average geoid map) because it explicitly says where exactly stood a huge island, that is in front of Gibraltar:

Geoid:

https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722/Geoid

These images also use Kircher’s chart as a complementary “model”. I asked myself why do these images have such a similitude. They are pretty obvious to me, but that does not mean they are what i believe they are, correct? Nevertheless, i force myself to always play the devil’s advocate, by equating again and again, numerous changes in the proposed “scenario”. In the geoid imagery, there must be an important information on what happened that dire day and night of misfortune, according to Plato. Why only in the northern Atlantic region of the MAR there is such an anomalous feature?

By reading the abstract we understand that (sometime ago*) there was an unusual rise from the deep mantle to the upper mantle region that extensively melted parts of the Asthenosphere in the north Atlantic sea floor. Could some of this information be inaccurate? I am astonished by the fact that (perhaps) scientific data managed to describe in detail, what really happened (although, perhaps with a wrong geologic timing). Why all elements (from this perspective) seem to be indicating that such an event took place?

PS: Please observe the enlarged images of the geoid map album, located in the Azores/Gibraltar region. They are undeniably similar to Kircher’s map. Why? why? why?

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited December 7, 2012 by Mario Dantas

[Abramelin]

No, Atlantis is under Antarctica's ice.

No, it's in Kennedy Space Center.

[Abramelin]

PS: Please observe the enlarged images of the geoid map album, located in the Azores/Gibraltar region. They are undeniably similar to Kircher’s map. Why? why? why?

Regards,

Mario Dantas

And once more, that other map by Kircher:

[Quaentum]

Hello,

Lonie's lament:

https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722/LonnieSLament

Just updated my album collection. These two albums are really another investigation regarding continental fit, in the north Atlantic, this time with topographic, bathymetric and geoid maps. I had mainly worked before with satellite imagery, thus different details were available in the compositions. In my opinion, the abstract above (as well as many other scientific information), speaks of a same event, although differently. Again, without the time “constraint” factor, we can make various suppositions. As we understand the Atlantis demise related by Plato, we should question whether this huge anomaly (strongest positive anomaly in the world) has or not anything to do with said Atlantis disappearance. Plato’s location is particularly interesting (with relation to the average geoid map) because it explicitly says where exactly stood a huge island, that is in front of Gibraltar:

Geoid:

https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722/Geoid

These images also use Kircher’s chart as a complementary “model”. I asked myself why do these images have such a similitude. They are pretty obvious to me, but that does not mean they are what i believe they are, correct? Nevertheless, i force myself to always play the devil’s advocate, by equating again and again, numerous changes in the proposed “scenario”. In the geoid imagery, there must be an important information on what happened that dire day and night of misfortune, according to Plato. Why only in the northern Atlantic region of the MAR there is such an anomalous feature?

Regards,

Mario Dantas

You are cherry picking from the Kircher map. You use the visual but ignore the text, specifically in the box that says "Site of Atlantis now beneath the sea according to the believes of the Egyptians and the description of Plato." . Basically that Atlantis is underwater at that location. If you accept the map then it does not support your Greenland Theory and likewise, if you reject the map you lose support for your Greenland theory.

The Egyptian's had no writings or stories about Atlantis, indicating it all came from Plato. The Kircher map is based solely on Plato's story which also doesn't support your Greenland theory.

Finally, Your Greenland theory is not supported by geography. Greenland is part of the North American tectonic plate and as such, for Greenland to be located where the Kircher map shows Atlantis, the rest of the North American plate would have been similarly displaced.

[Quaentum]

No, Atlantis is under Antarctica's ice.

Atlantis is a fictional tale that is not located anywhere on Earth

[Mario Dantas]

You are cherry picking from the Kircher map. You use the visual but ignore the text, specifically in the box that says "Site of Atlantis now beneath the sea according to the believes of the Egyptians and the description of Plato." . Basically that Atlantis is underwater at that location. If you accept the map then it does not support your Greenland Theory and likewise, if you reject the map you lose support for your Greenland theory.

The Egyptian's had no writings or stories about Atlantis, indicating it all came from Plato. The Kircher map is based solely on Plato's story which also doesn't support your Greenland theory.

Finally, Your Greenland theory is not supported by geography. Greenland is part of the North American tectonic plate and as such, for Greenland to be located where the Kircher map shows Atlantis, the rest of the North American plate would have been similarly displaced.

Hello Quaetum,

Timaeus (Benjamin Jowett) translation refers that the island disappeared in the depths of the ocean:

...the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.

http://classics.mit....to/timaeus.html

My interpretation is that "the depths of the sea" really meant the visual horizon of someone close, or in the Iberian peninsula:

Horizon

The circular boundary of the part of the earth's surface visible from a particular point, ignoring irregularities and obstructions.

Regarding Egyptians not having any record of Atlantis, i ask have every single piece of evidence been found yet? Until now, there has not been found any evidence, i think is what you meant...

Finally, Your Greenland theory is not supported by geography. Greenland is part of the North American tectonic plate and as such, for Greenland to be located where the Kircher map shows Atlantis, the rest of the North American plate would have been similarly displaced.

Greenland being Atlantis, as i am proposing is not supported by a variety of sciences. Greenland is perhaps a tectonic plate itself, although i have to agree that the majority of scientific data indicate something else.

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited December 7, 2012 by Mario Dantas

[Quaentum]

Hello Quaetum,

Timaeus (Benjamin Jowett) translation refers that the island disappeared in the depths of the ocean:

...the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.

http://classics.mit....to/timaeus.html

My interpretation is that "the depths of the sea" really meant the visual horizon of someone close, or in the Iberian peninsula:

Regarding Egyptians not having any record of Atlantis, i ask have every single piece of evidence been found yet? Until now, there has not been found any evidence, i think is what you meant...

Greenland being Atlantis, as i am proposing is not supported by a variety of sciences. Greenland is perhaps a tectonic plate itself, although i have to agree that the majority of scientific data indicate something else.

Regards,

Mario Dantas

The depths of the ocean have always meant the deep parts of the ocean below the surface. They knew the difference between underwater and beyond the horizon so even the Timaeus doesn't support Greenland moving away past the horizon.

If the Egyptians told Solon, they would also have told other visitors so there should be other accounts. It is highly unlikely they would have told but one person nor is it likely that all written references to Atlantis would be missing.

Your hypothesis has not received support here because the evidence does not support it. If evidence does come to light that supports it, then the skeptics will re-evaluate the concept.

For a hypothesis to be valid it must take into account evidence that exists as well as any new evidence that comes to light

[JesseCuster]

I want to know where Atlantis isn't.

It's been identified on these forums as being located in Greenland, Antarctica, North Africa, South America, North Atlantic, in the Mediterranean, etc.

[Quaentum]

I want to know where Atlantis isn't.

It's been identified on these forums as being located in Greenland, Antarctica, North Africa, South America, North Atlantic, in the Mediterranean, etc.

It's not in my back yard