The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

[zoser]

I'm surprised no one has really tried to challenge the vitrification studies. I've now checked evidence on multiple sites and they all seem to concur that the vitrification is the result of some very high temperature process.

This must be the most significant piece of evidence. Heating required up to 1100 deg C. The ramifications of this are obvious.

Glassy rocks form naturally under conditions of high temperature and pressures found in and around volcanoes. Glass or glazes are traditionally created using a

Furnace or kiln examples are found on everyday objects such as glassware and ceramics. The ceramics glazes are created by pasting certain finely crushed stones, sometimes with onto fired pots and plates. The whole is then fired to usually in excess of 1000 degrees centigrade.

The difficulty with many of the curious ancient vitrified examples is that they are found on objects so large that they cannot be placed in a furnace. The vitrification process itself is quite a mystery. A team of chemists on Arthur C. Clarke’s Mysterious World subjected rock samples from 11 forts to rigorous chemical analysis. They concluded that the temperatures needed to produce the vitrification were up to 1,100°C. Simply burning the walls with wood interlaced with stone could not achieve such temperatures. Recent experiments along these lines have had virtually no success at all.

http://blog.world-my...stiges-of-peru/

Next to consider the polishing hypothesis. This seems very less credible to me and has been dismissed by the experts who have looked at the microscopic vitrified top layer of the stones. The skin or surface layer is glass like. On the first clip you can see a rainbow or prism like effect as the light catches the top of the blocks:

On this video lots of stone blocks show the same effects but not in places that would need to be polished such as steps etc. There would be absolutely no need to do this. Look at 1:30 on this clip. This is not polishing. It's vitrification resulting from high temperatures.

Now we know something about the cutting of the stones. We still do not know the technology involved.

Finally would someone polish inside a hole? I think not.

[/color]

Edited December 18, 2012 by zoser

[nopeda]

nopeda, on 17 December 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I don't know what specifically you're referring to but I am impressed with how desperately some of these people want to believe no xts have had influence on this planet.

The desperation lies within the AA believers, especially since there is no evidence to support their belief.

The evidence is what people discuss most here. Whether xts exist anywhere in the universe or not, evidence that they have been here is certainly one of the things people discuss in this forum. The fact that you can't acknowledge any means you can't make any distinction between what is and what is not evidence , but that does nothing to eliminate any of the evidence that people discuss here and in lots of other places all over the planet.

[zoser]

Just had a lot of problems editing that due to some spurious text, Might be worth reading again.

[seeder]

The photos from the air make it pretty clear that those are pyramids unless the photos have been retouched. Hills don't just naturally occur with squared off sides that just happen to be exactly like a pyramid. How could they?

quote: "The hill is indeed roughly pyramid-shaped, at least the half that faces the town. The other half is a bit lumpy. In fact, if you look at it with Google Earth, it doesn't look like a pyramid at all. Geologists say it's a natural formation and that there are several like it in the region; Osmanagic says many of those hills are pyramids too"

http://www.gadling.com/2012/01/22/are-there-lost-pyramids-in-bosnia-probably-not/

Tried Google Earth?

[zoser]

A tunnel at Sacsayhuaman:

The above picture is from this video:

[media=]

[/media]

Compare with this natural formation in Scotland:

http://www.geograph....k/photo/2456130

That tunnel at Sacsayhuaman was literally burned out. The evidence has been there all along it's just that until recently no ones put it together.

Edited December 18, 2012 by zoser

[Quaentum]

The evidence is what people discuss most here. Whether xts exist anywhere in the universe or not, evidence that they have been here is certainly one of the things people discuss in this forum. The fact that you can't acknowledge any means you can't make any distinction between what is and what is not evidence , but that does nothing to eliminate any of the evidence that people discuss here and in lots of other places all over the planet.

I know well what is and is not evidence but unlike some AA believers I don't ignore evidence because it doesn't fit a theory I accept. The evidence is here and clearly supports terrestrial over extraterrestrial where AA are concerned.

[seeder]

It's amazing they can do what they do, but they don't have language and I accept that as well as what they manage to do without it.

maybe language isnt a requirement to animals/fish/insects, but its also well known that dolphins and wales have many many different vocalisations, elephants too - on the subsonic level, so is having language the only requirement you need to believe in what you believe?

"Communication requires that the communicating parties share an area of communicative commonality. The communication process is complete once the receiver has understood the message of the sender"

A pretty poor requirement really, especially when we know, as a fact, that verbalisations account for about 30%...of ALL our communication with each other!!!!!!!!!!!

"Nonverbal communication describes the process of conveying meaning in the form of non-word messages. Research shows that the majority of our communication is non verbal, also known as body language. In fact, 63-93% of communication is non-verbal".

source for both quotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication#Nonverbal_communication

[zoser]

The above clip appears to be in Dutch. Maybe Abe could translate it for us?

[seeder]

No others have language, and none of them make tools or weapons that are worthy of taking into consideration as comparison with human ability. That's the way it is and will remain unless all of a sudden some animals develop language and start making significant tools and weapons...and even if the start to at some point in the future they're still not doing it NOW. Even though they're not doing anything significant as I pointed out to begin with, what little they are doing is impressive just because it's impressive that that other animals are doing anything at all:

see bolded text

errm, have you missed the point that - necessity is the mother of invention?

Why do animals need to make tools and weapons? They live simply...perfectly adapted to the environments...therefore no necessity is upon them. For they really live in an animal garden of EDEN...only man complicated his life...with wars and greed and racisms...and then he really 'needed' tools...and weapons, so the grey matter got to work and it took a very long time...but he accomplished it, and for what? Wars? Ecological damages?

Yeh man is smart, and the smarter he gets, the more he realises what he has done is bad...very bad... he hurt the world! And how one day he believes and wishes, for the 'original' way of life... in nature, with no polution, no wars, no crimes, no cancers and diseases, just...eat...be happy...have fun in the world..

On the other hand..animals are born with the tools they need for the lives they live, humminbirds have the long beak to suck nectar, some fish, called angler fish, dangle lures to catch others.... spiders build webs...come on sonny, the animal kingdom is filled with stuff humans cant even do...go figure! Modern science gets tonnes of ideas from the animal kingdom too

Edited December 18, 2012 by seeder

[Abramelin]

The above clip appears to be in Dutch. Maybe Abe could translate it for us?

Sure.

The guy with the orange bars on his coat essentially says that the stones he touches (while standing, and the walls of the tunnel) look vitrified, not just polished. Of the stone he touches while standing he says that the vitrified layer is a separate layer. Also he asks the one filming if the surfaces look reflective through the cams viewer, and the answer is both times 'yes'.

He finishes with a remark about a recording of his of this tunnel on Hancock's message board.

[zoser]

Sure.

The guy with the orange bars on his coat essentially says that the stones he touches (while standing, and the walls of the tunnel) look vitrified, not just polished. Of the stone he touches while standing he says that the vitrified layer is a separate layer. Also he asks the one filming if the surfaces look reflective through the cams viewer, and the answer is both times 'yes'.

He finishes with a remark about a recording of his of this tunnel on Hancock's message board.

Evening Abe; thanks for the transcript. Come on my good man what do you make of all this?

[Abramelin]

Evening Abe; thanks for the transcript. Come on my good man what do you make of all this?

Good evening to you too, Zoser.

This is probably the video the Dutch guy mentions at the end of the video you posted (the first one on that webpage, haven't watched the others):; I recognize the Dutch accent in that video:

http://www.ancient-m...fied-rocks.html

I think the shine is caused by either a chemical agent or heat.

.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

You might want to check this old post of mine:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=224162entry4238448

[Space Commander Travis]

see bolded text

errm, have you missed the point that - necessity is the mother of invention?

Why do animals need to make tools and weapons? They live simply...perfectly adapted to the environments...therefore no necessity is upon them. For they really live in an animal garden of EDEN...only man complicated his life...with wars and greed and racisms...and then he really 'needed' tools...and weapons,

Well, yes, but I'm not sure if the ones whose brief lives almost inevitably end in providing a meal for something else would necessarily see things in the same way ...

[zoser]

Another one of Peter de Jong's clips this time of the Koricancha wall. Several interesting points. The fit is high precision yet looking down the profile of the wall we see wavy not straight lines. This tells me that achieving a precision fit was so easy that they did not need to achieve exactness in terms of the structure as a whole.

Look closely at around 0:50 and see the rainbow effect again. More evidence of vitrification (glass prism effect).

At 1:00 we see the protrusions the purpose of which is unknown.

At 1:51 we see a 'lip' in the join; if the stones were made by pounding wouldn't they have wanted to remove this lip? This again suggests that intense heat was the secret behind the precision join. The same idea applies to the step in the join seen at 2:25; that would have been undesirable if pounding was the method used.

Finally at 2:39 we see a bevel effect at the border of two blocks. This would be too much material to remove during polishing. This is a melting effect imho.

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[/media] Edited December 18, 2012 by zoser

[zoser]

Good evening to you too, Zoser.

This is probably the video the Dutch guy mentions at the end of the video you posted (the first one on that webpage, haven't watched the others):; I recognize the Dutch accent in that video:

http://www.ancient-m...fied-rocks.html

I think the shine is caused by either a chemical agent or heat.

.

I have the link bookmarked now. Thanks.

[zoser]

I think the shine is caused by either a chemical agent or heat.

.

Agreed but very intense heat > 1000 deg C

[seeder]

Well, yes, but I'm not sure if the ones whose brief lives almost inevitably end in providing a meal for something else would necessarily see things in the same way ...

Its called the food chain, everything needs nourishment ...its all part of the design, those that are eaten, are born in greater numbers.. nature figures it out...a turtle lays an average of 4 clutches of eggs each breeding season. Each clutch of eggs contains an average of 150 eggs. Room for a few losses.... besides, the law of nature is the fittest/best survive.... designs get perfected, or die...

[Abramelin]

Agreed but very intense heat > 1000 deg C

Check my former post pls.

[zoser]

You might want to check this old post of mine:

http://www.unexplain...2

Interesting. On one of the clips I looked at recently there was a reference to some strange chemical that the ancients were supposed to have used for transporting the huge blocks. No idea what this could be.

One thing comes to mind is that they would have needed copious amounts of it for the incredible number of artefacts manufactured in the Peru region alone. Then add in the PP relics and it becomes more improbable.

Then again considering intense heat as an option; what one earth was the power source?

Edited December 18, 2012 by zoser

[Oniomancer]

I'm surprised no one has really tried to challenge the vitrification studies. I've now checked evidence on multiple sites and they all seem to concur that the vitrification is the result of some very high temperature process.

This must be the most significant piece of evidence. Heating required up to 1100 deg C. The ramifications of this are obvious.

Glassy rocks form naturally under conditions of high temperature and pressures found in and around volcanoes. Glass or glazes are traditionally created using a

Furnace or kiln examples are found on everyday objects such as glassware and ceramics. The ceramics glazes are created by pasting certain finely crushed stones, sometimes with onto fired pots and plates. The whole is then fired to usually in excess of 1000 degrees centigrade.

The difficulty with many of the curious ancient vitrified examples is that they are found on objects so large that they cannot be placed in a furnace. The vitrification process itself is quite a mystery. A team of chemists on Arthur C. Clarke’s Mysterious World subjected rock samples from 11 forts to rigorous chemical analysis. They concluded that the temperatures needed to produce the vitrification were up to 1,100°C. Simply burning the walls with wood interlaced with stone could not achieve such temperatures. Recent experiments along these lines have had virtually no success at all.

http://blog.world-my...stiges-of-peru/

They didn't do their homework either.

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/arch-352-1/dissemination/pdf/vol_072/72_044_055.pdf

Next to consider the polishing hypothesis. This seems very less credible to me and has been dismissed by the experts who have looked at the microscopic vitrified top layer of the stones. The skin or surface layer is glass like. On the first clip you can see a rainbow or prism like effect as the light catches the top of the blocks:

Are you ****ing me? It's an optical effect from the camera, similar to lens flare.

On this video lots of stone blocks show the same effects but not in places that would need to be polished such as steps etc. There would be absolutely no need to do this. Look at 1:30 on this clip. This is not polishing. It's vitrification resulting from high temperatures.

It's called a Beilby layer:

http://stoneandtilepros.com/backstage/how-to-polish-difficult-marbles/

(Under "powder polishing.")

Finally would someone polish inside a hole? I think not.

Ah, but what was inside the hole? How was it used?

[Oniomancer]

Another one of Peter de Jong's clips this time of the Koricancha wall. Several interesting points. The fit is high precision yet looking down the profile of the wall we see wavy not straight lines. This tells me that achieving a precision fit was so easy that they did not need to achieve exactness in terms of the structure as a whole.

Look closely at around 0:50 and see the rainbow effect again. More evidence of vitrification (glass prism effect).

At 1:00 we see the protrusions the purpose of which is unknown.

At 1:51 we see a 'lip' in the join; if the stones were made by pounding wouldn't they have wanted to remove this lip? This again suggests that intense heat was the secret behind the precision join. The same idea applies to the step in the join seen at 2:25; that would have been undesirable if pounding was the method used.

Finally at 2:39 we see a bevel effect at the border of two blocks. This would be too much material to remove during polishing. This is a melting effect imho.

[media=]

[/media]

More lens flare.

Interesting that the work seen to get progressively less neat toward the top of the wall, above the level of foot traffic.

[Abramelin]

Interesting. On one of the clips I looked at recently there was a reference to some strange chemical that the ancients were supposed to have used for transporting the huge blocks. No idea what this could be.

One thing comes to mind is that they would have needed copious amounts of it for the incredible number of artefacts manufactured in the Peru region alone. Then add in the PP relics and it becomes more improbable.

Then again considering intense heat as an option; what one earth was the power source?

If I have to believe the accounts, the source of the chemical was a jungle plant. I vaguely remember Garcilaso de la Vega saying something along those lines too, but I am not at all sure, and I haven't found it in that Dutch translation of his book yet (it has no index whatsoever).

If (big IF) this is true, then we don't know what plant it is or how effective it is, so we have no idea how much is needed.

But one thing I got from those accounts (and from what I remember) : the Incas are supposed to have used it, not some unknown 'ancients'.

.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Abramelin

[zoser]

More lens flare.

Interesting that the work seen to get progressively less neat toward the top of the wall, above the level of foot traffic.

I'm not going to argue this one Mr O. So convincing are the microscopic tests and the analysis on the vitrified skin layers that the evidence is overwhelming. Abe's theory on chemical treatment also has some merit but I find it just a little less convincing. I wouldn't reject it totally though.

Far too much correlation with burning resulting in the glazing prism effect that it;s indisputable. Just review the evidence in my last half a dozen posts. If you really believe that the effect is lens flare then what say you of the effect being observed with the naked eye?

Respectfully I say your on the wrong track.

[Abramelin]

Couldn't the shine of those stones be caused by simple weathering?