Best Evidence - Top 10 UFO Cases

[DingoLingo]

That I didn't know. I always thought that they must make some kind of dog-like noises.

they yap at one time it was illegal to own a heavy crossbred dingo.. you were not allowed to have one as a pet.. the only way the wild life authorities could tell straight away.. is if it barked.. not yapped.. if it barked you were fine..

if it yapped.. hello hefty fine

[TheMacGuffin]

now me.. I would say you need to lay off the magic mushrooms.. but hey.. each to their own..

Would that it were that easily brushed off.

I could also tell you some things about the LSD experiments, MK NAOMI and many things along those lines, but that's another story.

[JimOberg]

Why don't you tell them everything for once?

As if you'd notice, since I have posted many, many investigation results and background reports on my home page, and you have proudly proclaimed you will NEVER bother your head with reading them. But for those genuinely curious about this baffling phenomenon, I hope the suggestions from somebody who has actually worked in Mission Control, who has talked with many astronauts about many subjects including UFO legends, will be considered valuable additions to the facts surrounding these stories. And help assess their credibility.

And one fact that McG keeps dodging is Clark McClelland's claim that the German scientists let him know that the UFOs were coming from a Nazi base in Antarctica staffed by escaped SS scientists. Or that McClelland claims to have been an eyewitness to an explosion on Mars, via telescope, when he was actually on the opposite side of the Earth from where it had been visible.

If McG really thought McClelland were a credible source, I hope he would have helped him out by sending him money, as he has been begging for, for years. But has he? I doubt it. Talk -- especially bluster -- is cheap.

[TheMacGuffin]

And help assess their credibility.

I don't think that's your true purpose--not in any way, shape or form.

As for poor Clark, he says you guys screwed him out of his pension because he talked too much, and that I can believe.

[JimOberg]

I don't think that's your true purpose--not in any way, shape or form.

As for poor Clark, he says you guys screwed him out of his pension because he talked too much, and that I can believe.

This supposedly happened in 1992 or so, when he failed his background check for the 'Secret' clearance he needed to get the Orbiter processing facility job [the one he later printed up a bogus 'business card' for]. Can you locate any officially-offensive public comments he made before that date, that might have triggered such a vindictive reaction? Any press interviews? Any postings on dial-up UFO chat rooms? If it was cause and effect, it has to be in chronological order -- so find the 'causes', and describe them to us.

How many years of his work at Cape Canaveral do you suppose were as a NASA employee? Most guys there, and here in Houston too, were contractor employees [some for NASA, others for the US Air Force or even the Navy], and pension vesting and funding was always a hit-or-miss proposition that few people really paid sufficient attention to.

Ask McClelland for the periods of NASA service he claims, in order to earn a NASA pension. It should be easy enough to determine. What's your initial guess?

And since he does seem to be financially strapped, you HAVE sent him some money, haven't you? If you believe he really was screwed over, where's your compassion?

[ChrLzs]

A very splendid example of deliberate obtuseness, I hereby grant you...

Seriously, you think that sort of childish waste of bandwidth is helping your cred? How about you just address the issues?

I will paste the main crux of the post from the link that was previously provided for your perusal... "More importantly, Oberg did not post the other LIFE Trent farm images

Say what? You're complaining because he didn't post more images? How do you know he had access to them? If you knew about all the others, how come it was *me* that posted them...?

He had to have known that there was a series of Trent farm photos

Why did he have to have known? Please outline your reasoning, step by step.

but he chose to selectively post only the one that would immediately suggest a hoax.

Having seen the others, which ones were more interesting, and why?

Oberg’s “mistake” was apparently repeated..A long-time, respected poster there had reproduced the ladder boy image, adding the statement:“from the same roll of film as the UFO photos.”

So let me get this straight, SOMEONE ELSE also claimed it was from Trent, and somehow that is Oberg repeating an error? Give me strength. The whole thing is a non-issue - you haven't yet made any sort of point, and the image is real and unfalsified. Bye.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Chrlzs

[ChrLzs]

And as I pointed out on that thread.. blah blah...

Readers will note that AGAIN, MacGuffin has refused to acknowledge he posted false information. So I will repeat it - here's MacGuffin's false information again:

HERE MacGuffin said that, in July 2008:

As I told you, I checked and none of them {the planets} would have been visible in the Northern Hemisphere at that time

That was completely and utterly false. His own link even showed that! On the night in question an hour or so before dawn, JUPITER was quite close to the Moon, exactly as was described by the 'ufo' witness. Here's a Stellarium screenshot for that time and location proving that MacGuffin posted FALSE information. It can be verified with any planetarium software.

Given he did not (and will not) admit he was wrong, what is the obvious implication?

[TheMacGuffin]

Readers will note that AGAIN, MacGuffin has refused to acknowledge he posted false information. So I will repeat it - here's MacGuffin's false information again:

HERE MacGuffin said that, in July 2008:

That was completely and utterly false. His own link even showed that! On the night in question an hour or so before dawn, JUPITER was quite close to the Moon, exactly as was described by the 'ufo' witness. Here's a Stellarium screenshot for that time and location proving that MacGuffin posted FALSE information. It can be verified with any planetarium software.

Given he did not (and will not) admit he was wrong, what is the obvious implication?

I think it says a lot more about you than me, since you refuse to acknowledge to I was the first one who even thought to look for those things in the thread, and you are not being honest about the many posts I made on that subject.

[ChrLzs]

I think it says a lot more about you than me, since you refuse to acknowledge to I was the first one who even thought to look for those things in the thread, and you are not being honest about the many posts I made on that subject.

Why would that be of any importance, other than for your ego or to show you have nothing better to do than hang around these forums constantly and pounce on anything you think might support your UFO=alienz mantra?

And wouldn't it be a bit more important to provide CORRECT INFORMATION? Your information was WRONG.

But if it makes you happy, you were .. the SECOND to look up information about the sky that night. Imaginarynumber1 was the first, not you.

And perhaps you should have thought before bringing this aspect up... Here's where you leapt onto the thread, saying:

The moon phase on July 17, 2012 was crescent moon, not full moon.

Problem was.. the sighting happened in 2008, not 2012... As you would have realised if you had actually looked at the report properly.

So even your very first attempt to 'help' was also WRONG. Twice in one thread, and in both cases, you were 'wrong' in a way that supported your bias... And then, in a display of hypocrisy that is astonishing, you later had the hide to criticise others for typos...

OK, now I've acknowledged you looked up information about 'those things' quite early in the thread (but posted incorrect information).. it's your turn.

Acknowledge (and explain why) you posted incorrect information on that thread.

[JimOberg]

And so this all is supposed to make us believe that when McClelland says there are secret Nazi bases in Antarctica, launching UFOs, because German rocket scientists winked at him in code when he asked them, he deserves our trust? Watch his recent videos on youtube and try not to spray coffee over the keyboard.

But how much money have YOU actually sent him to help him out?

[TheMacGuffin]

So even your very first attempt to 'help' was also WRONG. Twice in one thread, and in both cases, you were 'wrong' in a way that supported your bias... And then, in a display of hypocrisy that is astonishing, you later had the hide to criticise others for typos...

OK, now I've acknowledged you looked up information about 'those things' quite early in the thread (but posted incorrect information).. it's your turn.

Acknowledge (and explain why) you posted incorrect information on that thread.

Oh my my, I think I've upset this person very badly, haven't I? It just sticks in his craw that I disproved all their "explanations" for a UFO case they just thought was ridiculous, and in fact got posted on here just to make fun of the whole UFO phenomenon.

They do that a lot, trying to make UFOs and the people who report them look silly, but this time I really turned the tables on them and they just can't stand it.

[JimOberg]

McG, that last question is directed directly at you. What's so hard about answering it? I will too.

And so this all is supposed to make us believe that when McClelland says there are secret Nazi bases in Antarctica, launching UFOs, because German rocket scientists winked at him in code when he asked them, he deserves our trust? Watch his recent videos on youtube and try not to spray coffee over the keyboard.

But how much money have YOU actually sent him to help him out?

[TheMacGuffin]

McG, that last question is directed directly at you. What's so hard about answering it? I will too.

How much money have I sent him? None.

Obviously I never sent any to you, either, although you're on here panhandling all the time. I give more money to homeless winos I see on the streets.

[1963]

JimOberg, on 26 October 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

I always found it curious that the lines-of-sight to the Trent/McMinnville object crossed beneath an overhead power line that was usually conveniently cropped out of most published versions of the photos, and one other photo on the same roll had one of the Trent kids standing by a stepladder in the yard with a mischievous grin on his face. I'd bet not 1 UFO buff in 1,000,000 has ever seen -- or been shown -- THAT photo. Anybody hereabouts?

The origin of the 'other' photos wasn't clear on the LIFE website and I'm aware that there's a suggestion the photos were taken later, and that certainly could be true.

So you are saying that you didn't know that 'the boy on a ladder photo' wasn't from the "same roll of film",... or even the same camera that Paul took the famous UFO pictures with then James?

But yet we are asked to believe that even though being the consummate researcher that we all know you to be....you decided to just assume that one picture from 'at least 46 posted on google images',... or was it one picture from the '30 pictures' in The Life Magazine Edition , Trent UFO Photo Shoot of 'June 26th' 1950?...and declared that it was "One other photo from the same roll", without even checking to see if the "fact" that you were exposing, was in fact .."Fact"!..?

....Well,..yes if it was some other sloppy amateurish poster such as myself making the schoolboy error, ..I would have believed it!...But as it was 'James Edward Oberg'...ace researcher, and internationally renowned UFO Debunker....then no!...I firmly believe that the reason for this 'Mistake' was for a more self serving purpose than mere sloppy researching skills!

If so, one can only wonder at why the scene was reenacted the way they did, with the ladder right under the overhead line.

Where else would you expect that Loomis Dean...the Life photographer, would have taken pictures from,..in the neighbours front garden?..of course not!..but at the scene of the original event would seem a pretty obvious location ,.. to me anyway !

And did the notion that the photographer might have arranged for the 'Small Boy' to be on the stepladder [making him the correct height] so his head could be in roughly the same position as the original UFO, cross your mind?...or did you just reckon that Paul Trent [according to you,..the perpetrator of a devious hoax] saw fit to have documented the modus operandi of the diabolic-hoax for anyone and everyone to find?...Gee ! that would be the smart thing to do wouldn't it!

The question remains unsettled but I have no problem going along with findings that the photo is of later origin.

The question is Jim...When did you find out that the photo [along with all of the others that you ignored] was of a later origin??

The bigger question remains: why do the two lines-of-sight from the changed positions of the original photographer seem to criss-cross beneath the overhead wire? As if something were hanging down from it?

....Can't see how it's attached to the wire myself Jim,...can you point it out for me?

Cheers.

[TheMacGuffin]

....Can't see how it's attached to the wire myself Jim,...can you point it out for me?

Cheers.

The second one is definitely not attached to any wires, nor is it anywhere near them, but telling Oberg anything is a waste of time.

[TheMacGuffin]

And this is Paul Trent with his camera, part of a series of pictures taken by reporters after his UFO story became national news in 1950. Neither Oberg nor any others of his kind have ever been able to prove those pictures were fake, although not for want of trying.

Edited December 31, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[JimOberg]

The second one is definitely not attached to any wires, nor is it anywhere near them, but telling Oberg anything is a waste of time.

....Can't see how it's attached to the wire myself Jim,...can you point it out for me?

McG, I am awed by your 3-D sensory capability when looking at a 2D image.

I have to admit, I am totally incapable of such perception.

All I can determine is the direction of the line-of-sight to the object, but not its range from the viewer.

I am humbled by my less sharp perceptual capabilities than you obviously have.

I'm also unable to see fishline at such a range, in a hand held image.

Do you have any comparable-range photos with comparable-optics and film, in which fishline is EVER visible?

Or is that another example of your superior perceptual sharpness -- because I've never seen such a photo.

[JimOberg]

JimOberg, on 29 December 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

And so this all is supposed to make us believe that when McClelland says there are secret Nazi bases in Antarctica, launching UFOs, because German rocket scientists winked at him in code when he asked them, he deserves our trust? Watch his recent videos on youtube and try not to spray coffee over the keyboard.

This is the question you have dodged with the totally off-topic clumsy evasion gambit.

YOU brought up McClelland as a source we ought to trust.

Now you won't even answer questions about your OWN 'expert witness'.

[TheMacGuffin]

And so this all is supposed to make us believe that when McClelland says there are secret Nazi bases in Antarctica, launching UFOs, because German rocket scientists winked at him in code when he asked them, he deserves our trust? Watch his recent videos on youtube and try not to spray coffee over the keyboard.

This is the question you have dodged with the totally off-topic clumsy evasion gambit.

Listen, Rev. Jim, self-styled Minister of Truth and Light, I evaded nothing. I merely said I had never heard of McClelland making any claims about Nazi bases in Antarctica.

I have talked about the Nazis on here, and I have no doubt that some of them were your good buddies at NASA.

My grandfather arrested quite a few Nazis when he was on occupation duty in Germany, and I turned in some of them to the Justice Department when I found them working in this country, among them some of your good buddies at NASA.

I have also had a thread about SS Gen. Hans Kammler, posting everything I knew about him up to his disappearance in 1945. He may very well have escaped by plane or submarine somewhere, or even ended up working with you guys at NASA. Nothing would surprise me any more.

In any case, that is about all I have ever said about the Nazis on here.

[TheMacGuffin]

McG, I am awed by your 3-D sensory capability when looking at a 2D image.

I have to admit, I am totally incapable of such perception.

All I can determine is the direction of the line-of-sight to the object, but not its range from the viewer.

I am humbled by my less sharp perceptual capabilities than you obviously have.

You're so totally dishonest that I see no need to even discuss your limited perceptual capacities.

How long did you know Herr Doktor Arthur Rudolf anyway?

Edited December 31, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[JimOberg]

Here's McClelland's 2012 video postings on the Nazi Antarctic UFO base, his astronomically impossible clam to have seen the Mars explosion, and the interplanetary spaceship drive he has invented but NASA is too stupid to build [the 'Onion' drive].

http://www.youtube.com/user/clarkcmcclelland

Remember, he's one of the 'space experts' McG wants us to trust.

[TheMacGuffin]

All right, this is the first time I heard of it. The reports of nuclear explosions on Mars by the Japanese astronomer Tsuneo Saheki from 1933 to 1954 were real. Clyde Tombaugh also reported such explosions on Mars in 1941 as did the Russians in 1956. McClelland only says that he say a similar explosion in 1954, and that he is not even sure if he believes in Martians.

He also says that he lost his job and his pension at NASA, that his wife divorced him and his son died at age 19. His house was broken in to and his car was stolen, then he ended up working at Disneyworld for minimum wage.

McClelland really thinks that someone has ruined his life because of his UFO and ET disclosures, and the way people like Oberg and his friends operate I can certainly believe that.

Edited December 31, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

Then he mentions Gen. Thomas DuBose, who was indeed involved in the Roswell incident and said that it was a crashed alien craft of some kind. He mentions that he interviewed Herman Oberth and Wernher von Braun, he told him that Roswell was true and ETs were here. That does not surprise me in the least either.

He does admit that he needs "help" with his financial problems and it does sound like he's been having a very hard time.

[TheMacGuffin]

In another video he said he helped launch 881 space missions, and also interviewed astronauts about their UFO and alien contacts, all of which Oberg denies are real. I don't believe Oberg of course.

He goes on about how NASA destroyed his pension and he's living on Social Security, and that he saw pictures of an 8-9 foot tall "entity" on the space shuttle. When he revealed this he lost his job and his pension.

I haven't heard him say anything about Nazi bases in Antarctica yet.

[TheMacGuffin]

Even if someone like Oberg was in the same condition as McClelland--and he also claims that he was canned and discarded by NASA after years of doggishly loyal service and toeing the party line--I might slip him a couple of bucks for a cup of coffee and a donut when he came around panhandling.