The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

[Imaginarynumber1]

Does any of you geniuses know about a Peruvian herb/plant/shrub that is common and has red/purple, spongy leaves?

.

Poinsettia, maybe? It's native to Central and South America.

I confess, however, that I do not know much about plants.

[Abramelin]

And I have to agree Abe.

Sadly it seems I know now for sure some of my factual posts are ignored, maybe because they involve a bit of reading.... now when I was looking into the Arthur C Clarke story of when he and his team set about 'recreating' possible ancient methods that may have led to this 'vitrification'... one of the ways that they found just doesnt work, was heating...as, most rocks will split at high temps, not get soft and pliable!.

I know what you are feeling, Seeder. I read your posts, I read all of Zoser's posts, and all his repeats.

But I am stubborn too.

I think I can say I want all this to be explained by alien intervention as much as Zoser or others do.

I just have not have the privilege of watching any proof of that.

[Abramelin]

Poinsettia, maybe? It's native to Central and South America.

I confess, however, that I do not know much about plants.

Only the flowers look red.

Nice, but no cookie. Sorry.

The leaves should look red or reddish or purple-reddish, and be common plants, and their leaves should feel like a sponge.

.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

It's not an easy job to be a skeptic.

[seeder]

Does any of you geniuses know about a Peruvian herb/plant/shrub that is common and has red/purple, spongy leaves?

.

I do

Red Juntcha, its in their own myths (peruvians or whatever) that a bird carried it. I was waiting till someone here found news of it, but sadly, no-one does

Have a FIELD DAY reading stories about it. zoser really needs to do a google on this

but sadly he'll only read the stories that also insist the bird really means flying people...erm, you know -aliens!!

Edited January 2, 2013 by seeder

[zoser]

You realize that this is the 4th time that you've had to be told that neither the Tiwanaku nor the Inca were stone age peoples?

Irrelevant in terms of building technology. Did they have steel etc?

[Imaginarynumber1]

Only the flowers look red.

Nice, but no cookie. Sorry.

The leaves should look red or reddish or purple-reddish, and be common plants.

This is all that I have found so far:

In an interview in 1983, Jorge A. Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert in Andean folklore, said that he had rediscovered the ancient method of softening stone. According to a pre-Columbian legend the gods had given the Indians two gifts to enable them to build colossal architectural works such as Sacsayhuaman and Machu Picchu. The gifts were two plants with amazing properties. One of them was the coca plant, whose leaves enabled the workers to sustain the tremendous effort required. The other was a plant which, when mixed with other ingredients, turned hard stone into a malleable paste. Padre Lira said he had spent 14 years studying the legend and finally succeeded in identifying the plant in question, which he called ‘jotcha’. He carried out several experiments and, although he managed to soften solid rock, he could not reharden it, and therefore considered his experiments a failure.

4 Aukanaw, an Argentine anthropologist of Mapuche origin, who died in 1994, related a tradition about a species of woodpecker known locally by such names as pitiwe, pite, and pitio; its scientific name is probably Colaptes pitius (Chilean flicker), which is found in Chile and Argentina, or Colaptes rupicola (Andean flicker), which is found in southern Ecuador, Peru, western Bolivia, and northern Argentina and Chile. If someone blocks the entrance to its nest with a piece of rock or iron it will fetch a rare plant, known as pito or pitu, and rub it against the obstacle, causing it to become weaker or dissolve. In Peru, above 4500 m, there is said to be a plant called kechuca which turns stone to jelly, and which the jakkacllopito bird uses to make its nest. A plant with similar properties that grows at even higher altitudes is known, among other things, as punco-punco; this may be Ephedra andina, which the Mapuche consider a medicinal plant.5

I have to say, however, that while this certainly is an appealing explanation, this story has all the trappings of an urban legend. I see the same text quotes everywhere and no names that can be identified beyond the reports.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Irrelevant in terms of building technology. Did they have steel etc?

Highly relevant. Your inability to realize the difference between stone age, bronze age and iron age technologies speaks volumes.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Imaginarynumber1

[Imaginarynumber1]

I do

Red Juntcha, its in their own myths (peruvians or whatever) that a bird carried it. I was waiting till someone here found news of it, but sadly, no-one does

Have a FIELD DAY reading stories about it. zoser really needs to do a google on this

but sadly he'll only read the stories that also insist the bird really means flying people...erm, you know -aliens!!

The only problem with this is that there is no information on the plant itself. It is only mentioned in one article (of highly dubious content) that is quoted across numerous sites.

[seeder]

This is all that I have found so far:

I have to say, however, that while this certainly is an appealing explanation, this story has all the trappings of an urban legend. I see the same text quotes everywhere and no names that can be identified beyond the reports.

whoops posted this as you posted above... so this ones now irrelevant

Edited January 2, 2013 by seeder

[Abramelin]

I do

Red Juntcha, its in their own myths (peruvians or whatever) that a bird carried it. I was waiting till someone here found news of it, but sadly, no-one does

Have a FIELD DAY reading stories about it. zoser really needs to do a google on this

but sadly he'll only read the stories that also insist the bird really means flying people...erm, you know -aliens!!

I read 'Juntcha', you have some source for that?

You knew I would ask, lol.

But I like the connection with birds. THAT is what I posted about....that Fawcett saw birds using this plant to make a hole in stone so they could nest in it.

Was he an idiot, was he lying?

You tell me.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Abramelin

[Imaginarynumber1]

go back one page see my last post.... I named the plant

Saw that and responded. I'm afraid that there is a rather suspicious lack of any information about this plant...

You would think that with its amazing abilities there would be a wealth of information about it, but instead, it is only mentioned in the one article linking Sirius, Atlantis, the bible, aliens, etc.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Imaginarynumber1

[Abramelin]

This is all that I have found so far:

It's ok.

At least you tried.

+===========

People , there may be an Amazonian plant/herb out there that contains chemicals that are able to dissolve granite,

Find it (lol)

,.

[Imaginarynumber1]

It's ok.

At least you tried.

+===========

People , there may be an Amazonian plant/herb out there that contains chemicals that are able to dissolve granite,

Find it (lol)

,.

I'm starting to think that it's a myth. There is zero evidence for such a plant beyond a few anecdotal stories. A combination of several plants and fruit juices, would be more likely.

Also, you know, cocaine. That would ikeep a work force going for quite sometime.

[seeder]

Ok when I was looking up this potential plant - (I was more interested in the glaze angle), after a few different types of searches, theirs a thread on ATS , and i quote:

"Apparently in Egypt it was used garlic-stone, onion-stone and radish-stone in geopolymer technique while in Peru the red plant “juntcha” (kechuca, puno punco, quebrantahuesos or bone-breaker Andean ephedra), chanca piedra (Phyllanthus niruni), quinua (Chenopodium quinoa) and coca leaves were used to create vegetable acids; probably volcanic ashes and molds made of potatoes were also used besides the force of the rivers. Red juntcha liquidifies stones and iron and is used by woodpecker named Pito (Colaptus pitius) to drill the stones with its beak by means of its saliva fermenting the plant. The wall stones were pre-elaborated on horizontal or curved and little mountain shapes on the floor for anti-earthquake purposes.

3 posts down here

http://www.abovetops...hread692500/pg7

and little info besides...but then, only in - I imagine - hard copy 'old' botany books might you find an 'extinct plant'...

note the other plant names to search on?

in Peru the red plant “juntcha” (kechuca, puno punco, quebrantahuesos or bone-breaker Andean ephedra), chanca piedra (Phyllanthus niruni), quinua (Chenopodium quinoa) and coca leaves were used to create vegetable acids;

.

Edited January 2, 2013 by seeder

[seeder]

Anyway for those that do research, why not translate Peruvian into English and find a common name for ' juntcha'...the fact it is red will only upset the translation engine, then we may have a name in English to work with

snip from my last post

"in Peru the red plant “juntcha” (kechuca, puno punco, quebrantahuesos or bone-breaker Andean ephedra), chanca piedra (Phyllanthus niruni), quinua (Chenopodium quinoa)"

so yeh theres a few there to translate, but Id suspect, its an extinct plant

I cant be bothered to do the legwork on this,

as a point of fact...when I was looking into oxalic acid when I was cleaning a boat down...(which its used a lot for) the packet warned of dire health consequences if I spilt the acid or got it on my clothes etc.. so I looked up whats so bad about it..

So it turns out its in the 'Rhubarb plant' - among other sources.

A red plant... is rhubarb.. tho I doubt it can ever melt rocks at all. Just took a microscopic top layer of the GRP on the boat along with all the built up crud and dirt.

http://en.wikipedia....hubarb#Toxicity

Plus remember, if its a story only from legend... then we are back to all legends being based on a little truth.. or none at all. Still - should keep you researchers busy a while

Edited January 2, 2013 by seeder

[seeder]

it will fetch a rare plant, known as pito or pitu, and rub it against the obstacle, causing it to become weaker or dissolve. In Peru, above 4500 m, there is said to be a plant called kechuca

the 3 bolded above are at least the same in yours and my article. Ok may mean nothing at all...so maybe they are the plants to google instead? "Red Juntcha" may just be a name of the combined mix, the whole 'brew'...rather than a separate item?

At least for a while we're not discussing aliens tho, and its gone a bit quiet so I imagine lots are looking this up?

Edited January 2, 2013 by seeder

[seeder]

I read 'Juntcha', you have some source for that?

But I like the connection with birds. THAT is what I posted about....that Fawcett saw birds using this plant to make a hole in stone so they could nest in it.

Was he an idiot, was he lying?

You tell me.

If there was any plant corrosive enough to melt rock inside the short time that birds need a nest, ie few days or weeks maybe a month... then it may have been possible to observe...if true,

But a hole in the side of a rock big enough for a bird, his nest and family, will be a sizeable hole Id expect and not one that I can think can be made quickly, but who knows till this mysterious plant juice is proved or otherwise?

But it wont have been a woodpecker as Ive read a few times! They are called Wood peckers for a reason.

Sand Martins do this...peck at the sandstone to build a nest, in the side of cliffs. Ive seen it myself at Cromer, UK see a piccy -

http://friendsofpark...tin_470x300.jpg

Maybe legend became confused, unless the original stories related to sandstone..

Edited January 2, 2013 by seeder

[Imaginarynumber1]

the 3 bolded above are at least the same in yours and my article. Ok may mean nothing at all...so maybe they are the plants to google instead? "Red Juntcha" may just be a name of the combined mix, the whole 'brew'...rather than a separate item?

At least for a while we're not discussing aliens tho, and its gone a bit quiet so I imagine lots are looking this up?

Can't find squat. Didn't look that hard, though.

[zoser]

Highly relevant. Your inability to realize the difference between stone age, bronze age and iron age technologies speaks volumes.

Maybe you want to discuss the stone masonry excellence of the Aymara indians that according to fairytales archaeological history constructed the great Puma Punku relics?

[seeder]

Can't find squat. Didn't look that hard, though.

well good you looked anyway! Lots dont!

I'm too busy looking at new laptops in the Jan sales, (online)...so thats why Im not into researching further...but hey I found the 'stuffs' name anyway! But it was apparently a name from legend, and thats just the problem with legends.. they are unreliable! Even a search on 'plant extract, corrosive on stone' returned nothing exciting.

[seeder]

Maybe you want to discuss the stone masonry excellence of the Aymara indians that according to fairytales archaeological history constructed the great Puma Punku relics?

Thats not entirely a mystery seeing as they were a subject people of the Inca.. you learn well if the teachers are smart

Anyway enough with the swipes...this thread almost has my interest again with the fabled red juice..

Edited January 2, 2013 by seeder

[Imaginarynumber1]

Maybe you want to discuss the stone masonry excellence of the Aymara indians that according to fairytales archaeological history constructed the great Puma Punku relics?

Sorry zoser. Work on Puma Punku started around 1500 B.P.(Circa 400 AD) Basically after the Bronze Age and well into the Iron Age in most areas.

[Imaginarynumber1]

well good you looked anyway! Lots dont!

I'm too busy looking at new laptops in the Jan sales, (online)...so thats why Im not into researching further...but hey I found the 'stuffs' name anyway! But it was apparently a name from legend, and thats just the problem with legends.. they are unreliable! Even a search on 'plant extract, corrosive on stone' returned nothing exciting.

I tried the usual avenues, but as said, everything that I can find quotes that same paper mixing aliens, pyramids and the bible. I think this plant is a dead end, though the concept surely is not. Chemical re-crystallization (vitrification) is still done by these means today. Even this flooring company talks about it: http://www.ethosmarblecare.co.uk/restore-stone/vitrification.shtml

[zoser]

Here's another oddity that I have been musing over. Many of the blocks at Puma Punku have been moulded to accept metal clamps for what is commonly thought to be mechanical strengthening support.

Here is an example fro Ollyantaytambo:

Doesn't it strike anyone as being a little small for the size of the block? Bearing in mind the relatively soft metals that they were known to have available what mechanical support could that really provide?

On some website it was conjectured that the metal wasn't poured in molten form but rather the clamps were ready prepared and pressed into the clay like block. It's purpose was not to provide final mechanical rigidity but to hold the block in place while is hardened.

That's one idea and to be honest looking at the size of the block which must be in the order of 20-30 tonnes, I can see the logic in that.

Here is another idea.

These constructions at Ollyantaytambo and Sacsayhuaman were built from andesite or granite both of which contain quartz. Quartz as we know is produces electrical energy when excited vibrationally. The idea occurs that the walls needed to be electrically connected in some kind of circuit in order to function fully as some some kind of radiating apparatus. The metal clamp would have facilitated the electrical connection between the stones.

Just a thought.

Anyway this will have to be my last post for a while as work now beckons. Not that I don't enjoy my work but I enjoy this more.

See you all soon.

Here's the clip if you want to see the full size of the block:

Peru Megaliths: Similar To Those In Egypt?

Edited January 2, 2013 by zoser