EU 'makes UK more valuable to US

[stevewinn]

Thanks questionmark. I was believing the EU was young and wanted to be sure I was accurate enough.

Based on the age of the EU I wouldnt be surprised if it didnt dissolve altogether eventually considering the diverse nationalities and political systems involved. I just dont get how the US became part of the EU conversation as we have enough problems at home and should be more concerned about our own borders and why they are so strict and why NAFTA failed America.

The EU will come to an end, in spectacular fashion. just look at the EU today, look at the Euro zone. - this is why the UK needs to leave - leaving the EU to continue in whatever direction they want. sit back and with time watch the fireworks from the white cliffs. it promises to be the greatest show on earth.

Edited January 13, 2013 by stevewinn

[Guest]

The EU will come to an end, in spectacular fashion. just look at the EU today, look at the Euro zone. - this is why the UK needs to leave - leaving the EU to continue in whatever direction they want. sit back and with time watch the fireworks from the white cliffs. it promises to be the greatest show on earth.

All great endeavours come to an end, but the EU is in its infancy. Growing pains is all it is experiencing.

Br Cornelius

[spud the mackem]

The infighting is hotting up on tonights news, Milliband says we cant possibly leave the Euro's, the Lib-Dems say the same, and Cam says he doesnt really want to leave but may have to if a referendum is offered.These guys are out of touch with the wishes of the Public who want out,but have no say in the matter, all 3 arnt worth a sack of horse doovers.

[Render]

Where in my post did i say France The Netherland or Ireland Held a referendum to leave the EU. - if you read it correctly. i never said what you are implying.

Oh don't do this, don't play this silly game.

ExpandMyMind got it, as did I.

For your insight:

\

over half of the people of europe would vote to leave the EU if given the vote. just look at voting in the EU.

The Dutch said NO, the French said NO the Irish said NO. every time the people have been given the vote on referendums they have voted NO. and each and every time ignored,

It's very clear what you said, don't even try to pretend you didn't say it.

Anyway it doesn't matter.

And the Irish have been saying quite a bit of "In favour" if you actually read the results of the referendums. You just say what you want to believe, it doesn't make it true.

[TheLastLazyGun]

the crazies seem to have taken over her party.

People in Ireland and other EU countries may think that only "crazy" politicians consider and support the views of the majority of the people of the country which they run, but in Britain we don't see it like that due to that little thing known as democracy.

The fact of the matter is that the Europhile minority of the EU cannot expect to keep up their deluded fantasy that the EU will remain the biggest economy in the world. The European continent as a great economic power has finished and there are other parts of the world which are coming up to challenge it. One thing the EU has against it is the fact that its population is shrinking and will continue to shrink in the coming decades. And when you consider the fact that the US population will continue to grow quickly and it is only a matter of time before its population overtakes the EU, and when you consider that China continues to experience economic growth that the EU can NEVER hope to match, you will realise that the EU's days are the No1 economic power in the world are numbered. It will not be long before it falls behind China, the United States and maybe other places such as India.

So I hate to burst your deluded EU bubble but I thought I had to tell you the truth. Europe's days as a great economic power are finished.

Edited January 14, 2013 by TheLastLazyGun

[Guest]

People in Ireland and other EU countries may think that only "crazy" politicians consider and support the views of the majority of the people of the country which they run, but in Britain we don't see it like that due to that little thing known as democracy.

Your crazies have been sabotaging your membership of the EU since the UK went in, Thatchers rebate was specifically negotiated so that Britian couldn't avail of structural funding for its regions to rebuild its ailing industrial base - politically expedient but strategically dumb. They have also been pumping out anti-European propaganda through their anti-European right wing media. To say that the UK public is well informed about what EU membership has to offer is far fetched. To say that the Conservative have been blaming the EU for the consequences of their mismanagement would be nearer to the point. If you do pull out, I wonder who they will seek to blame for the continuing decline of British Industry rather than pointing the finger at the spivs in the City who have been milking the country dry for a generation.

Interesting times indeed.

Here is an interesting debate on the issues, and the comments are particularly worth reading;

http://www.euractiv.com/uk-europe/europe-conservative-party-analysis-515528

Br Cornelius

Edited January 14, 2013 by Guest

[stevewinn]

The infighting is hotting up on tonights news, Milliband says we cant possibly leave the Euro's, the Lib-Dems say the same, and Cam says he doesnt really want to leave but may have to if a referendum is offered.These guys are out of touch with the wishes of the Public who want out,but have no say in the matter, all 3 arnt worth a sack of horse doovers.

Well if you remember Parliament held a vote on offering a referendum on the EU constitution/Lisbon treaty and the Lib Dems abstained all 64 of them. meaning we lost the vote and so we had no, referendum. the lib dems absatined knowing full well if the UK held a referendum the people would vote NO. and with the Lib Dems being pro-EU they abstained. proving they are a political party of irrelevance and so its proved now, four years later with them now slipping behind UKIP.

Oh don't do this, don't play this silly game.

ExpandMyMind got it, as did I.

For your insight:

It's very clear what you said, don't even try to pretend you didn't say it.

Anyway it doesn't matter.

And the Irish have been saying quite a bit of "In favour" if you actually read the results of the referendums. You just say what you want to believe, it doesn't make it true.

Its funny how Questionmark understood my post straight away, the evidence of this is contained within his reply. were he explains to Umer' Expandmymind'. - and seeing how Questionmark is a long term contributer to these EU debates he's well versed on the issue. unlike yourself. who jumped to the wrong conclusion. and in a vain bid to save face you continue to try and tell me what i meant in my own post.

Here is one of my posts, quoted below. NOTE THE DATE and YEAR 2008. the topic was about the EU referendum on the EU/Constitution/Lisbon Treaty. i've highlighted the bold part, just to prove to you once and for all i know what im talking about. Question is do you. - see how i used the same words, the French Said NO the Dutch said NO and the Irish said NO. am i refering to Leaving the EU as you keep claiming NO. I bet your no apologist. but its fair to say having made a fool of yourself one to many times i doubt we'll be seeing a contribution from yourself in this thread.

am ****ing made up, surely the treaty is dead in the water, the EU said it had no plan "B", so it should be the end of, but the EU wont give up the ideology easy, they'll be back with more ****e, i wish the EU would understand NO, means NO, like the French and the Dutch voted. and now the Irish.

its says it all when it takes a small country like Ireland to save the arses of the French, British, Dutch,

how long will it be before the EU, decide to ban the word NO from the voting paper. leaving us all with the one option.

QUOTE

Ireland has voted No to the Lisbon Treaty, plunging the European Union into a new crisis.

With results coming in from across the country, a final result of 52 per cent against and 48 per cent in favour of the treaty was rapidly hardening. A final declaration is not expected until after 4 pm.

The Lisbon Treaty, the reworked successor to the formal constitutional pact dumped by voters in France and the Netherlands in 2005, officially needs the approval of all 27 EU member states. But only in Ireland has it been put to a popular vote, meaning today's result may have far-reaching consequences for the entire bloc.

Barely two hours after the count began today, the No camp had already started celebrating, while senior Fianna Fail strategists privately and glumly conceded their defeat.

http://www.timesonli...icle4128055.ece

http://www.unexplain...nstitution&st=0

Edited January 14, 2013 by stevewinn

[keithisco]

Britain will be a much more powerful nation outside the EU as an independent nation which runs its own affairs like most countries do than it will be inside the EU when it will be just one "Member State" amongst many having to follow whatever bizarre and pointless rules Brussels makes us follow and when it has economic growth held back by the stranglehold of Brussels.

In fact, the reason why the Americans, Irish and Germans are getting themselves in a state of panic over the prospect of Britain leaving the EU is precisely because Britain is an influential, powerful nation. They will not work themselves up in such a state were it Denmark or Portugal threatening to leave the EU.

At the end of the day Britain is the world's fifth largest economy and has the only properly-functioning military in the Western World other than the United States. Britain is more than big enough to stand on its own two feet and the only people who think otherwise are the raving, mouth-frothing, swivel-eyed Europhile loonies who think the EU is some sort of great Nirvana in which every country must be a part of should they wish to acquire political and economic greatness and every country outside the EU (around 87% of the world's nations) are dark, medieval countries where dragons and minotaurs roam but, thankfully, these raving, mouth-frothing, swivel-eyed Europhile loonies are very much in the minority not only in Britain but across Europe.

8th Largest, and France has a far more potent force than the UK... but hey!! Lets not let facts get in the way of your Europhobe Diatribes

[keithisco]

Well if you remember Parliament held a vote on offering a referendum on the EU constitution/Lisbon treaty and the Lib Dems abstained all 64 of them. meaning we lost the vote and so we had no, referendum. the lib dems absatined knowing full well if the UK held a referendum the people would vote NO. and with the Lib Dems being pro-EU they abstained. proving they are a political party of irrelevance and so its proved now, four years later with them now slipping behind UKIP.

Its funny how Questionmark understood my post straight away, the evidence of this is contained within his reply. were he explains to Umer' Expandmymind'. - and seeing how Questionmark is a long term contributer to these EU debates he's well versed on the issue. unlike yourself. who jumped to the wrong conclusion. and in a vain bid to save face you continue to try and tell me what i meant in my own post.

Here is one of my posts, quoted below. NOTE THE DATE and YEAR 2008. the topic was about the EU referendum on the EU/Constitution/Lisbon Treaty. i've highlighted the bold part, just to prove to you once and for all i know what im talking about. Question is do you. - see how i used the same words, the French Said NO the Dutch said NO and the Irish said NO. am i refering to Leaving the EU as you keep claiming NO. I bet your no apologist. but its fair to say having made a fool of yourself one to many times i doubt we'll be seeing a contribution from yourself in this thread.

http://www.unexplain...nstitution&st=0

if you remember, the idea of a EU Constitution was lost by the earlier NO votes from France, Netherlands, and Ireland - therefore it would have been a pointless referendum because the motion was already "Lost".

Once all references to a EU Constitution had been removed then no referendum was required.

[smurf0852]

The infighting is hotting up on tonights news, Milliband says we cant possibly leave the Euro's, the Lib-Dems say the same, and Cam says he doesnt really want to leave but may have to if a referendum is offered.These guys are out of touch with the wishes of the Public who want out,but have no say in the matter, all 3 arnt worth a sack of horse doovers.

the people want out because it is what they read in the right wing press .any kind of independent thought is lost .the sun and the daily mail put eye catching headlines about tits and british greatness on the front pages to grab the attention of idiots .

those idiots mostly drive an inch away from your bumper in white vans and rage about how its unfair that have to drive a white van because of those bloody european people. because the sun and daily mail tell them thats what they should do

our country is populated by dip ****s with no more clue about what being in eurpoe means than a bee knows why it happens to be in a hive .

[questionmark]

the people want out because it is what they read in the right wing press .any kind of independent thought is lost .the sun and the daily mail put eye catching headlines about tits and british greatness on the front pages to grab the attention of idiots .

those idiots mostly drive an inch away from your bumper in white vans and rage about how its unfair that have to drive a white van because of those bloody european people. because the sun and daily mail tell them thats what they should do

our country is populated by dip ****s with no more clue about what being in eurpoe means than a bee knows why it happens to be in a hive .

You'd be surprised about the extend of bee's knowledge.

[Render]

David Cameron: UK could drift towards EU exit

The UK could "drift towards" exiting the EU if problems are not addressed, David Cameron is set to warn.

The prime minister postponed a long-awaited speech on the UK's relationship with Europe to respond to the hostage crisis in Algeria.

In extracts released in advance, Mr Cameron said he wanted to set out a "positive vision" for the future of the EU in which Britain would play a part.

Meanwhile, President Obama said he wanted a "strong" UK in a "strong" EU.

"If we don't address these challenges, the danger is that Europe will fail and the British people will drift towards the exit," he was to say.

"I do not want that to happen. I want the European Union to be a success and I want a relationship between Britain and the EU that keeps us in it."

It also emerged that US President Obama had renewed pressure on Mr Cameron over Britain remaining a member of the European Union. Details of a phone call with the prime minister on Thursday were released by the White House.

A spokesman said: "The president underscored our close alliance with the United Kingdom and said that the United States values a strong UK in a strong European Union, which makes critical contributions to peace, prosperity, and security in Europe and around the world."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-21076219

Edited January 19, 2013 by Render

[stevewinn]

David Cameron: UK could drift towards EU exit

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-21076219

Render do you know why Obama wants the UK in the EU, because of American strategy / foreign policy. Obama is taking America to the Pacific in the larger global strategy He's the Pacific President. - Heck just look at what the US defence Department as said only yesterday. 'quote -U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called on NATO to become a more flexible fighting force that can tackle a broad range of conflicts and urged European allies to join the Pentagon’s shift to the Asia-Pacific region'

So you can see whats going on, the US wants a strong UK in a strong EU so that part of the world (europe) can be left alone while the US diverts its resources to the Pacific region, by the UK saying its possibly leaving the EU throws a small spanner in the works for the US. with the UK out of Europe the US would naturally have to keep an eye on europe. with a strong UK still in the EU we'd be Americas eyes and ears. - so dont think for one second the NEWS piece is in some way endorsement for the EU for the benefit of those other than the US.

[Render]

I know man.

But you do see that the UK doesn't really have an opinion on things. They don't know what to do ( proven by the years of the YEs we'll leave to No, we're too scared) and they don't know why they don't know. The only thing they do know is populism. Which only gets them into more trouble. In the end they'll most likely listen to the USA because the UK is indeed it's lapdog (eyes and ears into the EU).

[itsnotoutthere]

Your crazies have been sabotaging your membership of the EU since the UK went in, Thatchers rebate was specifically negotiated so that Britian couldn't avail of structural funding for its regions to rebuild its ailing industrial base - politically expedient but strategically dumb. They have also been pumping out anti-European propaganda through their anti-European right wing media. To say that the UK public is well informed about what EU membership has to offer is far fetched. To say that the Conservative have been blaming the EU for the consequences of their mismanagement would be nearer to the point. If you do pull out, I wonder who they will seek to blame for the continuing decline of British Industry rather than pointing the finger at the spivs in the City who have been milking the country dry for a generation.

Interesting times indeed.

Br Cornelius

Amazing, the usual hypocritical sterotypes I suppose. Guardian readers, legends in most of their own minds when it comes to defending proletarian rights and democratic legitimacy, dogged in their highlighting of political slight of hands,opaqueness and downright dishonesty. Happy though to embrace a political union which no one in this Country or anywhere else in Europe has voted for or even been asked about. A top down project initiated by a political elite disinterested in the views or aspirations of voters, who demanded a re-run of the Irish plebiscite (the only one in Europe) when the first produced the wrong answer, where governments are imposed in order to save the faces of those behind the debacle of the single currency and lied about convergence criteria. Our own politicians, in three three main parties obfuscating or in total denial about the logical destination and consequences of the current direction of travel. This is autocracy by another name, I hope you are proud of yourselves.

[Guest]

I would love to live in a world where the little guy never got exploited by the big guy, or where David always conquered Goliath, but I live in the real world where the Little guy needs the support and protection of his neighbours to avoid the predatory interests of his bigger neighbours (USA, China, South American trading zone, etc). This is especially true when I have few natural assets at my disposal.

I don't know what world you live in isnotoutthere, but it certainly don't bare much relationship to the real one I have to muddle along in

Br Cornelius

Edited January 20, 2013 by Guest

[Guest]

Cameron's speech is to take place this week, probably Wednesday. For the sake of his political future let's hope he announces an EU in/out referendum.

Cameron has been delaying this speech for about six months at this stage because he knows it is a sword of Damocles over his head. What ever he says he knows it will mean the end of his political career since if he says he will stay in he will be stabbed in the back by his backbenchers and if he says he will pull out the coalition will rapidly collapse since he cannot speak for the Government of the UK and advocate a pull out.

Cameron is only part of the UK government and so is neither free to speak his mind or that of his party. He always has been, and will remain, a weak advocate for remaining in the EU.

Doomed.

Br Cornelius

Edited January 20, 2013 by Guest