911 inside job - for what?

[Little Fish]

'neocons, jews, nazis'

leo strauss, university of chicago, wolfawitz et al.

but redhen has declared he doesn't want to look at evidence.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Little Fish

[Zaphod222]

'neocons, jews, nazis'

leo strauss, university of chicago, wolfawitz et al.

but redhen has declared he doesn't want to look at evidence.

I think he/she would quite like to look at evidence.

Now what "evidence" have the truthers ever produced? And for what, exactly?

Various truthers have told us at various times that the World Trade Center Attacks were engineered to justify the War on Terror™ / mask an elaborate gold heist / destroy incriminating evidence against MCI/Enron / justify a military attack to secure a lasting Middle-East oil supply / create the necessary environment for trampling Americans’ civil rights / make GWB rich / train troops / start the apocalypse..

We have also been told that the Twin Towers were brought down by airplanes piloted by A) CIA Black-Ops agents, B ) missiles fired from offshore U.S. fighter planes, C) rays from space, or D) explosives strategically planted in the foundation of the Towers to finish off the job in the event A), B ), and/ or C) failed.

We also heard at various times that the attacks were orchestrated by the U.S. Government against its own people / the Iraqi Government / the Israeli Government / the Reptilians / the world-wide Illuminati / the Rothshilds and associated bankers and/or the governments of U.S. allies angered by American economic and military dominance in a post-Cold War world.

Would it not be advisable for the truthers to make up their minds first, for what exactly they claim to have evidence?

(By the way, we also know that Elvis is alive and well, Paul McCartney is an imposter, McDonald’s hamburgers are made from soybean and horsemeat, and a New World Order Shadow Government is slowly usurping our free will via thought control waves broadcast over our TVs, radios, and cell phones. Anyone got some spare tin foil they could lend me for a bit?)

Edited January 14, 2013 by Zaphod222

[Little Fish]

attributing differing views to a collective group of people is not rational

[lightly]

..

top right... OBL

top left... the guy who "admitted" to 9-11 on the video we were shown•

If that isn't EVIDENCE of something amiss.... then go back to sleep.

my guess at ...... 9-11.. for what? Many many reasons.. all of which have to do with CONTROL and monetary gain.

Edited January 14, 2013 by lightly

[Just Dave]

How many conspiracies ended in reality and happened for real... Sometimes conspiracy is fully logical, people just don't want to accept it because it is titled "conspiracy".

And yes i agree with lightly... the gains were big time...9/11 is fishy all over yet people cling to what their lying politicans say... Like Bush said? The guy made crimes against humanity he is free living hes trashy life.. He should be death sentenced.

So yes by the unfortunate destruction of WTC the US pratically gained a full control in ME established dozen of bases, dropped lots of bombs and ammo and probably gained vast amounts of oil too..

[frenat]

to believe the official narrative requires defective reasoning. bush's whereabouts were known by the whole world days before the attack, he was in that classroom for 2 hours after the hijacks were known to his secret service protection team. he remained in that classroom for nearly an hour after the first plane crash and was still there for 30 minutes after the second crash. its retarded to believe the secret service protection team would not have moved him if the official narrative is true, remember there were thought to be 22 hijacked planes whose whereabouts were unknown.

Because you have so much experience in this area right? Oh that's right, you don't.

He was in a known safe location. They had an AWACS and fighter escort overhead. They needed time to secure the route. Running out into an unknown situation is not what they would choose to do first.

Of course your scenario involves implicating the secret service as well. So they're all in on it too?

[Babe Ruth]

No, you need to be able to establish who caused the 911 attacks, specifically. All these things you said were interesting may be but you must be able to show a causal relationship between the "who" and the attacks.

Again, you make independent claims or inferences, you must show how the two are related, not just " It is interesting that Bill Clinton was asked by the Somali's to take Osama Bin Laden and he wouldn't do it."

That does not support your argument that "we need to take China out".

So, can you reveal to us who "we" is? And how "we" caused the 911 attacks?

In all seriousness, I hope some people here can contact some friends or professors (there should be lots of them) who believe that 911 was an inside job, and can construct a causal argument.

Thanks

Why does he need to establish who caused the attacks, but YOU do not? Isn't that a bit of hypocrisy showing?

It is certainly not honest analysis. You embrace a story that cannot be proved, you do not prove your story, but he must prove his?

[freetoroam]

my guess at ...... 9-11.. for what? Many many reasons.. all of which have to do with CONTROL and monetary gain.

CONTROL is most definitely right....its what the islamic fundamentalists / islamists / radical islamists are after, they even admit it.

[Little Fish]

Because you have so much experience in this area right? Oh that's right, you don't.

He was in a known safe location. They had an AWACS and fighter escort overhead. They needed time to secure the route. Running out into an unknown situation is not what they would choose to do first.

Of course your scenario involves implicating the secret service as well. So they're all in on it too?

that's right, larry arnold was running a drill over florida using an awacs that day. it seems they were lucky in every respect except for thwarting the attacks. how convenient.

there was also the case of the mysterious camera crew that turned up for an unannounced interview with bush the day before only to be turned away, just a few days earlier a camera crew had blown themselves up assassinating the leader of the afghanistan northern alliance.

staying in the school was still retarded.

and i note you ignored the second point which was the main response to the question. pick around the edges all you like, i was responding to redhen.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Little Fish

[redhen]

PS That is not to say that ‘Neocons’ cannot be Jews, though ‘Zionists’ would be a more usual term if that were the intended target – and Zionism is another area which absolutely must be understood – the ideologies of the two groups marry together seamlessly. The U.S. administration of 2001 was saturated by these two groups like never before...

Thanks for your take on the term neocon. There are many though that see it as a codeword; "Michael Lind, Eric Alterman and Pat Buchanan have identified neoconservative Paul Wolfowitz as the originator of a conspiracy theory involving the manipulation of the Presidency of George W. Bush to gain control of the US military and make war on Iraq in the interest of Israel rather than the US.^[79]"

from http://en.wikipedia....Neoconservatism

[Just Dave]

CONTROL is most definitely right....its what the islamic fundamentalists / islamists / radical islamists are after, they even admit it.

US you meant.. you made error right there..

[redhen]

to believe the official narrative requires defective reasoning.

do tell.

bush's whereabouts were known by the whole world days before the attack,

p1

he was in that classroom for 2 hours after the hijacks were known to his secret service protection team. he remained in that classroom for nearly an hour after the first plane crash and was still there for 30 minutes after the second crash.

p2

its retarded to believe the secret service protection team would not have moved him if the official narrative is true, remember there were thought to be 22 hijacked planes whose whereabouts were unknown.

p3

That's all very interesting and stuff, but how does that establish that Bush or some other nefarious characters inside the U.S. government planned and controlled the 911 attacks? Same response to your FAA changes proposition.

the attacks (effect) would not have occurred in the easy manner they did without the implemented change (cause). main conclusion

I will restate my original question again; "Who planned and controlled the 911 attacks, and why?"

Once I see a coherent, reasoned argument, then we can go through the warrants for you premises.

Thanks

[redhen]

'neocons, jews, nazis'

lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

leo strauss, university of chicago, wolfawitz et al.

but redhen has declared he doesn't want to look at evidence.

leo Tolstoy, Frankfurt School, McCarthy

Well, why didn't you say so before? It all makes perfect sense now.

I can spit our random, unconnected names too.

The burden of proof is on you to establish who (specifically) planned and controlled the 911 attacks, and why.

cheers

[redhen]

..

top right... OBL

top left... the guy who "admitted" to 9-11 on the video we were shown•

If that isn't EVIDENCE of something amiss.... then go back to sleep.

my guess at ...... 9-11.. for what? Many many reasons.. all of which have to do with CONTROL and monetary gain.

Hi Lightly, in case you missed it, this thread is about the logical argument that truthers make (actually I haven't seen one yet). So no pictures, videos or links to documents, at least not yet. Thanks

The argument that truthers make is an inductive argument, specifically a causal argument. In order to establish a cause-effect relationship you have to do two things;

1) show that the cause preceded and was spatially connected with the effect.

2) that the effect would not have occurred without the cause.

p.s. I've noted that you qualify your statement on the "why" with "my guess". That excludes you from the truthers since they claim to know who and why.

[redhen]

Why does he need to establish who caused the attacks, but YOU do not? Isn't that a bit of hypocrisy showing?

It is certainly not honest analysis. You embrace a story that cannot be proved, you do not prove your story, but he must prove his?

It's called the burden of proof principle. Truthers claim to know who and why, so I asked for a coherent, reasoned argument.

Still waiting ...... day 2 .....

[Just Dave]

"Who planned and controlled the 911 attacks, and why?"

Thanks

Your secret service backwater military branches and agencies that you, me , even your god damn government doesn't know about them because they run uncontrolled and in full darkness from actual reality and offical laws and regulations. And your are blindly believing that your country is working fine and that you are free and all BS togather while in reality you have this strange prison like camps for which you dont have a single clue what are they for, you have 60 % population with jobs back in 1980 you had 85% population with jobs, your education programs are failing hard, your so called freedom is almost like a prison and obviously you arent aware of that yet... your wall street is gambling your money so hard that your are unofficaly already broke, goldman and sachs covering massive tax frauds even your treasury is being controlled by them. While they control your government and they are making themselves richer beyond logical sense 1in 6 US citizen lives in poverty....

Dude i could write alot of that stuff which clearly went haywire, that's reality, those are facts readable by typing lines in google and seeing graphs and letters for your own eyes. Now if you don't clearly see that you YOUR LIFE doesn't matter much to your puppet government. You will start understanding that only thing they care about is MONEY , MONEY AND MORE MONEY. 9/11 was staged so people could have an excuse to go to ME overall make bases there and exploit resourses avaible to closest base. MAN FOUGHT WARS FOR RESOURSES, and EVERY WAR STARTED with flase flag operation.

That is reality.. your government is all a bunch of comedy players. I am just glad some of your fellow citizens are already aware of that and are reaching out to the rest of the world.

Here have some goodies to chew on, nice start for a new year...

Edited January 14, 2013 by Nuke_em

[redhen]

Your secret service backwater military branches and agencies that you, me , even your god damn government doesn't know about them because they run uncontrolled and in full darkness from actual reality and offical laws and regulations.

Funny, whenever I ask for "who planned and controlled the 911 attacks", I get very similar answers; unnamed, unknown, shadowy figures working in secrecy. When pressed, i get replies such as; "world banking system", "new world order", or more plainly, "Zionists"

And your are blindly believing that your country is working fine and that you are free and all BS togather ...

That wasn't the question. Sure, post-modern society is going to hell in a hand basket. But the question was "who planned and controlled the 911 attacks?"

Dude i could write alot of that stuff which clearly went haywire ....

Duuude! I didn't ask for that. The question was "who planned and controlled the 911 attacks?"

Ideally, I wold like to see something like;

The Bush clan are greedy mofos p1

The Bush clan contracted Mr X and his international conglomerate to secretly hire Muslim fanatics to execute the 911 attacks. p2

Thus, 911 was an inside job (main conclusion)

“Fallacious and misleading arguments are most easily detected if set out in correct syllogistic form”

- Immanuel Kant

[redhen]

We also heard at various times that the attacks were orchestrated by the U.S. Government against its own people / the Iraqi Government / the Israeli Government / the Reptilians / the world-wide Illuminati / the Rothshilds and associated bankers and/or the governments of U.S. allies angered by American economic and military dominance in a post-Cold War world.

You forgot my favourite; Mossad. Many Muslims claim that Mossad agents executed the 911 attacks, yet it was a Great Victory for Islam !

oops, you did mention the Israeli gov't., close enough.

Edited January 14, 2013 by redhen

[skyeagle409]

You forgot my favourite; Mossad. Many Muslims claim that Mossad agents executed the 911 attacks, yet it was a Great Victory for Islam !

oops, you did mention the Israeli gov't., close enough.

That is simply amazing! There are those who have said that those Israelis, who were dancing during the 911 attacks, was evidence the Israelis was involved, but they failed to mentioned this;

How many were celebrating when this news came out?

[WHO U KIDDIN]

In his article entitled "The 11th Anniversary of 9/11", Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan and the creator of Reaganomics, writes:

It is hard to image a more far-fetched story–except for the second thing you need to know: The humiliating failure of US National Security did not result in immediate demands from the President of the United States, from Congress, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and from the media for an investigation of how such improbable total failure could have occurred. No one was held accountable for the greatest failure of national security in world history. Instead, the White House dragged its feet for a year resisting any investigation until the persistent demands from 9/11 families for accountability forced President George W. Bush to appoint a political commission, devoid of any experts, to hold a pretend investigation.

The 11th Anniversary of 9/11 ~ Paul Craig Roberts

Unfortunately there are many here who might make him out to be just another conspiracy advocate.

Edited January 14, 2013 by WHO U KIDDIN

[Just Dave]

The Bush is a puppet controlled by very powerfull institutions from the background like you said BANKS ( they are the main engine of this sharade ) then there are private corps. and here and there individuals with power. Government is just a sucker in this whole mess. So at the end you got it right there is far more than just government.

I gave you those examples so that you can see while your Obama is saying such nice things about everything hes missguiding alot of people from actual reality of things at hand. So 9/11 was childs play for those standing behind the presidental figure. Who are they, since you are in US is best that you don't know, heard one too many story in which people died because they dug too much. I am safe here from reaches of your expanding supression sytem, i am not saying you are guilty of anything but your leaders and those shadowy people in the backgrounds silently cooking another plot are responsible for every harm that is happening now, i cant prove this since i wouldn't be here if i could. Many tried many went missing many died from " natural casues". So dealing with such people is suicide more or less since they don't want to be known, seen or heard in any such way. This could be an extensive topic...

So you, me probably even your president will never know who actualy pulled it off, that is why word secret exists and you will never know who Mr.X is until someone risks alot and tries too leak it out. Even in that case media will title him a lier,schizophrenic, traitor,terrorist,...etc. Media is in working with those shadowy people you could see that when they tried to in-law the SOFA and ACTA laws about internet, go see some videos how your news reporters acted, they acted in favor of those laws they even marked some people who did a good job at preventing those laws with mental, crazy, schizophrenic and similar words... on national TV..

[Just Dave]

See this Obama guy comedian why didn't he showed the picture of dead Bin Laden as passionately as he speaks at that day on 1th of May? Well he showed it to all in congress but he won't to those who deserve to see him dead? Amazing.. talk is cheap especially from politicans. No proof exists that either he is dead or burried anywhere again listening to liers saying such good things...

[redhen]

In his article entitled "The 11th Anniversary of 9/11", Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan and the creator of Reaganomics, writes:

It is hard to image a more far-fetched story–except for the second thing you need to know: The humiliating failure of US National Security did not result in immediate demands from the President of the United States, from Congress, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and from the media for an investigation of how such improbable total failure could have occurred. No one was held accountable for the greatest failure of national security in world history. Instead, the White House dragged its feet for a year resisting any investigation until the persistent demands from 9/11 families for accountability forced President George W. Bush to appoint a political commission, devoid of any experts, to hold a pretend investigation.

Hmm, was anyone in the federal government fired for this colossal intelligence/security failure?

Did anyone get fired over the Pearl Harbor attack?

Did anyone get fired over the Beirut Marine base bombing?

Did anyone get fired over the attack on the U.S.S. Cole or embassies?

Did anyone get fired over the first WTC attack?

Did anyone get fired over the Benghazi attack?

I could spend all day making such a list.

[Professor Buzzkill]

I will restate my original question again; "Who planned and controlled the 911 attacks, and why?"

Once I see a coherent, reasoned argument, then we can go through the warrants for you premises.

Thanks

Can you imagine for one second that there are a few shadowy figures meeting in secret to plan an attack. Now look at who you are asking. We have normal jobs, yet you expect me to know the exact ins and outs of this said secret meeting? To be able to tell you the names and exact motives? You may as well ask your butcher next time you see him.

It doesnt matter if that group is a radical muslim organization or otherwise, noone will be able to provide you with what you want.

If you want to get to the bottom of any situation where all the facts are not avaliable you just need to look at who gained the most from 9/11. And it sure as hell wasnt osama. Especially as he came out and said he didnt do it while the msm showed a fat muslim claiming to be osama, wearing a gold ring (forbidden by sharia law), saying he did it.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Professor Buzzkill

[+joc]

Funny, whenever I ask for "who planned and controlled the 911 attacks", I get very similar answers; unnamed, unknown, shadowy figures working in secrecy. When pressed, i get replies such as; "world banking system", "new world order", or more plainly, "Zionists"

That wasn't the question. Sure, post-modern society is going to hell in a hand basket. But the question was "who planned and controlled the 911 attacks?"

Duuude! I didn't ask for that. The question was "who planned and controlled the 911 attacks?"

Ideally, I wold like to see something like;

The Bush clan are greedy mofos p1

The Bush clan contracted Mr X and his international conglomerate to secretly hire Muslim fanatics to execute the 911 attacks. p2

Thus, 911 was an inside job (main conclusion)

“Fallacious and misleading arguments are most easily detected if set out in correct syllogistic form”

- Immanuel Kant

A powerful secret group sought to control the world and everything in it...they called their 'new' world...The New World Order. This Secret Entity comprised of Ronald Reagan, George H. Bush, and Mikhail Gorbichev , created a well thought out plan to bring about a New World Order in which the United States and Russia would control everything...from who became President of the United States, to who became the head of state of Whatever Country, to who would be allowed to wage wars. Ultimately they sought to control all Financial Affairs Globally. p1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The first step was to end the Cold War. Reagan and Gorbachev put in place an avenue for that with Perestroika. The wall came down, East and West Germany united and The Old Soviet Empire crumbled. The rise of China was also part of the Great Plan of New World Order. The United States set them up as an economic partner and the Russians sold them their unfinished aircraft carriers. Complicit partners in the NWO plan were The Clintons, who made it possible for China to gain high tech weaponry by 'losing' a valuable rocket and allowing the Chinese to take it into their possession.

The Plan involved Russia invading Afghanistan. During the time of their occupation, they trained, along with the CIA, a large number of 'terrorists' to put forth the ulimate plan that would bring them the World Control they sought. They also put forth the 'idea' to the world that they were actually wanting to control Afghanistan for strategic purposes. After they had achieved the results they wanted...the Russians left Afghanistan...and it was reported that Afghanistan was Russia's Vietnam.

The Clinton Administration made it possible for the CIA to work without the FBI knowing what they knew. The CIA in conjunction with Russian Intelligence trained Osama Bin Laden and an army of terrorists, most if not all believed they were waging Jihad for Allah. They used the Islamic Movement put in place by the insertion of their Islamic Puppet, the Ayatollah Khomeini who began the Fundamental Movement by calling The United States, The Great Satan. This was part of the plan to create an enemy that would set up the eventual scenario that led to the destruction of the WTC in New York City. p2

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thus, 911 was an inside job (main conclusion)

Edited January 14, 2013 by joc