Buzz Aldrin comments on UFO following Apollo

[SwampgasBalloonBoy]

If something does exist, do you expect a known crackpot who pushes moon base nonsense and someone with mental issues has something of value?

If the footage does exist, I expect it to be pretty ordinary. I cannot see any breakthroughs coming from this pair.

Good luck in finding it, I would consider it a waste of time. I think sometimes one can be thorough, and sometimes, one can just waste time. It is worth attempting to separate the two.

If it's indeed does exist, I think it's better for everyone to see it, dissect it and judge for themselves if it's ordinary or not, fake or real. If its does exist and we can't find it out there, then it's pretty suspicious, maybe too believable to be floating around? If it doesn't exist, then end of story.

Leigh and Greer don't see eyes to eyes. Leigh accused Greer of using the footage without giving credit. In the article, it was confirmed by Dr. Bob Hieronimus. Is this fact or lies?

[bmk1245]

psyche101 = Spin Doctoring 101.

Mitchell grew up in Roswell, New Mexico, which some UFO believers maintain was the site of a UFO crash in 1947. He said residents of his hometown "had been hushed and told not to talk about their experience by military authorities." They had been warned of "dire consequences" if they did so.

But, he claimed, they "didn't want to go to the grave with their story. They wanted to tell somebody reliable. And being a local boy and having been to the moon, they considered me reliable enough to whisper in my ear their particular story."

Too often on the internet, and there are A LOT of blogs that use spin doctor tactics, you see arm chair skeptics that think they are that brilliant investigator they see on TV but in reality they just don't have what it takes to be a proper detective, scientist (even though they like to exclaim "science") or the imaginary character named Sherlock Holmes.

Well

[E.M.] I lived here from when I was 5 until I went off to College. We had a family business in the valley. It was between Roswell and Artesia.

(Interview with Dr. Edgar Mitchell)

With the same success we can say he lived in Artesia

[psyche101]

Look in the mirror. A lot of your armchiar sketicism is either intentionally deceptive or just plain pathetic.

Stop spin doctoring every thread already.

That is very rude, are you saying you have more right to post than I do? How so?

Please feel free to prove me wrong with anything I post, that is after all what this place is for. This seems a pretty weak and pathetic rebuttal. Jason Leigh does have known mental issues, he was bloody well locked up for it. I proved as much, how is that spin doctoring? Please explain. I have a decent telescope, I know Greer's moon claims are pure bunkum. I have has a look myself, have you? What is Spin Doctoring about that?

What evidence have you provided to prove me incorrect? All you have done is have a whine at me providing information that seriously dents your fantasy. How is what you are doing not what you accuse me of?

[psyche101]

psyche101 = Spin Doctoring 101.

Mitchell grew up in Roswell, New Mexico, which some UFO believers maintain was the site of a UFO crash in 1947. He said residents of his hometown "had been hushed and told not to talk about their experience by military authorities." They had been warned of "dire consequences" if they did so.

But, he claimed, they "didn't want to go to the grave with their story. They wanted to tell somebody reliable. And being a local boy and having been to the moon, they considered me reliable enough to whisper in my ear their particular story."

Too often on the internet, and there are A LOT of blogs that use spin doctor tactics, you see arm chair skeptics that think they are that brilliant investigator they see on TV but in reality they just don't have what it takes to be a proper detective, scientist (even though they like to exclaim "science") or the imaginary character named Sherlock Holmes.

What you do not seem to be picking up is this is exactly what I am saying. Edgar Mitchell personally knows nothing, and that is what you posted. He has taels from sources that are mostly very dubious. Look at them yourself.

Go ahead Sherlock, dazzle me. I have proven that Edgar advocates Bob Lazar, I have shown that he got information from Glenn Dennis, Stephen Greer and some old cattle ranchers. I told you lot who the Admiral was that he spoke to, what have you offerred?

Ohhh, how dare I offer factual information that you cannot counter!! What right do I have to rip your fantasy apart? Every right. That is what a discussion forum is for. To discuss a subject, not whine the you are getting your hiney kicked in a debate. Hell, grow a pair, give me a decent debate, do not go sook in a corner! Take a page from Quilliuses book! Learn how to defend your position. When you just have a whinge, you look pathetic.

How the hell did you miss this part of your very own post???

They wanted to tell somebody reliable. And being a local boy and having been to the moon, they considered me reliable enough to whisper in my ear their particular story."

What the hell does that tell you? It sure is not saying that Edgar has any knowledge of Aliens at all does it? It says some people told him some stuff, and he believed it, and I challenge you to provide a valid source for Edgars claim. Better than you have tried, and in the end had to admit that Edgar does not personally know a thing. If I am a spin doctor, then you are a hypocrite, aren't you?

[psyche101]

I shouldn't complain though. What do you expect on forums such as Unexplianed Mysteries or Above Top Secret.

One should expect discussion. You do not seem to be here for that, you seem to be here for validation.

[DONTEATUS]

Peace on earth Its a start !

[psyche101]

If it's indeed does exist, I think it's better for everyone to see it, dissect it and judge for themselves if it's ordinary or not, fake or real. If its does exist and we can't find it out there, then it's pretty suspicious, maybe too believable to be floating around? If it doesn't exist, then end of story.

Too believable? Come on mate. I have come to respect you, don't take it down a peg.

Do you honestly form one second think a mental patient or a known crackpot actually has managed to attain something of any value when much better have failed?

Do you honestly think you are the first person to give Leigh the time of day? If this had any significance, it is hard to consider it "buried" until now. Wether he deserves such time or not is another matter. However, I have tracked down some information for you.

Today, Leight has a site on the Internet devoted to UFOs, including stories about other sightings he's had, government coverups of UFOs, tips on how to videotape UFOs and his experiences with talk shows and other media. "Our city streets are not safe. Our homes and families are not safe form the evils of this world," Leigh wrote on the site. "Therefore, what is there to fear from an advanced civilization from another world, provided that they are civilized?" On that Internet site, Leigh claims to have worked in television news, a job he says he left to work for NASA. He also said on that site that he is now a writer. Leigh's relatives said that he worked for KCLE 1120 AM radio in Cleburne a few years ago, but KCLE station manager Gary Moss said he did not recall Leigh ever working there. Leigh's family declined any further comment. Elmore-Moon, who is now a news anchor for KCLE, said she first met Leigh years before his UFO sighting, when he used to bring his poetry to the Times-Review. Over the years they developed a friendship, and Elmore-Moon did the first story on his UFO sighting, she said. Though rumors floated around Cleburne that Leigh claims to have been abducted by aliens, Elmore-Moon said he never told her point-blank that he had been abducted. Rather, Leigh told Elmore-Moon that he was sitting in the woods playing his guitar one day and experienced a period of "lost time," Elmore-Moon said. One minute, he was playing his guitar, and the next thing he knew, his guitar was on the ground beside him and some time had passed, Elmore-Moon said. Leigh told Elmore-Moon that he couldn't recall what had happened during that time, but he did not rule out the possibility that alien abduction might have been the cause of the lost time, Elmore-Moon said. During some of their conversations, Elmore-Moon said, Leigh mentioned that he was experiencing trouble getting veterans benefits, and that he was "not happy with the government."

LINK

His claim is that he shot a video of a UFO on a golf course, and that Greer stole it. I do not now if this video actually exists, I canot find it in Greers Disclosure site. This is supposedly a still from said video:

That my friend, is a street light. Possibly a carpark light.

Leigh babbles on about conspiracy and religion. I fail to see an attraction to be frank. If this is not a dead end, I will eat my hat.

Apparently Greer's lawyers asked Leigh not to pursue the matter, and he seems to have dropped it after that.

He is a published Journalist, a Poet, a Singer/Songwriter with a Top 25 Indie album (From 'Unsigned Magazine') entitled, "Directions," a general raconteur and thorn-in-the-side of some "other" UFO researchers, and a famous UFO Videographer and UFO missing time experiencer. Perhaps you have paid to have seen his copyrighted video, because it was ripped off by Dr. Steven Greer of the U.F.O. Disclosure Project! Dr Greer's lawyer begged Jason NOT to sue, and Jason did not do so. Dr. Richard Hoagland once predicted that a certain Mars Mission lander, The 'Pathfinder,' would crash and Jason said it would not, but would rather be a very successful mission ... Jason was documented to be right while Dr Hoagland was wrong, and said publicly that he would publicly debate Jason on three different radio broadcasts, but oddly, Jason never got a call!

Immediately after our interview, Jason emailed that he had visions of coming tornadoes and hurricanes: danger from the skies. Floods, landslides, it was as if he was there, just as in ALL of the visions The Great Spirit, God, gives him: even when predicting airplanes crashes.

LINK

Honestly, this is not getting better as it goes along.

Leigh and Greer don't see eyes to eyes. Leigh accused Greer of using the footage without giving credit. In the article, it was confirmed by Dr. Bob Hieronimus. Is this fact or lies?

Isn't it a kicker that he shares his name with the guy that wore the Bigfoot suit.

As far as I can tell, he claims to have evaluated the video.

Amazing he has a doctorate, he never went to school. His B.S. degree is in teaching from Towson State Teacher’s College and he taught art for two years to grade school children. His speciality is "Metaphysics". And that really does not surprise me. The most grandiose claims always come from fringe elements who canot support what they say. Funny that, and not only that, they relationship seems proportional. The bigger the whacko, the more wild the story. I have not heard his "evaluation" but I sure as heck would like to. He also claims he can pick lottery numbers. I canot say his claims sound like those of a trustworthy man. I do not expect much from his "evaluation". From what I can tell, he is no more qualified to evaluate a UFO than you or I. Less if anything, as he has not displayed a level of objectivity.

This is the tin foil hat side of the phenomena as far as I am concerned. These idiots cannot hold a candle to Hawking, Sagan, Drake, Kaku, Greene and their colleagues. Those are the guys who will give you answers.

[psyche101]

Well

(Interview with Dr. Edgar Mitchell)

With the same success we can say he lived in Artesia

Funny thing is, the poster does not realise he is supporting what I said, and nothing else. All his quote says is that the information comes from other people, not Dr Mitchell. This somehow seems to elude the faithful because they believe in the press, not the source. All that one needs to do is actually listen to Dr Mitchell. He even says, spread it on the net, I have no first hand knowledge.

And Quillius and I did some decent investigation. The sources are dubious at best. I would like to see the quoted poster even attempt to keep up with Quillius. People want to use an appeal to authority and claim this is beyond Mitchell, because it makes their position seem stronger.

Great Scott, the ETH is a crock. In some cases, it seems to be a crutch to lean on more than anything else. It's pretty bad when the best rebuttal is an appeal to authority.

[psyche101]

Peace on earth Its a start !

We are going to have to roll our sleeves up and go it alone mate.

These guys above are off the mark, Aliens are not going to give us Whirled Peas.

[JimOberg]

Maybe I just ought to email my BIS colleague David Baker. what questions should I ask?

1. What knowledge did he have while at NASA about astronaut encounters with UFOs?

2. How did he learn that astronauts were discouraged from talking about UFOs and why didn't that work for Ed Mitchell and Gordon Cooper?

3. How old was he during the Apollo program?

4. Did he work on the Gemini program?

5. Was he a 'senior scientist' during the Apollo program and on what basis did he earn that title?

Anything else?

[TheMacGuffin]

Maybe I just ought to email my BIS colleague David Baker. what questions should I ask?

1. What knowledge did he have while at NASA about astronaut encounters with UFOs?

2. How did he learn that astronauts were discouraged from talking about UFOs and why didn't that work for Ed Mitchell and Gordon Cooper?

3. How old was he during the Apollo program?

4. Did he work on the Gemini program?

5. Was he a 'senior scientist' during the Apollo program and on what basis did he earn that title?

Anything else?

Why don't you contact Wired magazine, since they were the ones who interviewed him, and if you look on Amazon he has indeed written all those books on the space program.

[bmk1245]

Funny thing is, the poster does not realise he is supporting what I said, and nothing else. All his quote says is that the information comes from other people, not Dr Mitchell. This somehow seems to elude the faithful because they believe in the press, not the source. All that one needs to do is actually listen to Dr Mitchell. He even says, spread it on the net, I have no first hand knowledge.

[...]

Maybe he has a hard time understanding Aussie accent

[...]And Quillius and I did some decent investigation. The sources are dubious at best. I would like to see the quoted poster even attempt to keep up with Quillius. People want to use an appeal to authority and claim this is beyond Mitchell, because it makes their position seem stronger.

[...]

No chance. Quillius is a tough cookie, Great debater.

[quillius]

Maybe he has a hard time understanding Aussie accent

No chance. Quillius is a tough cookie, Great debater.

A very funny joke followed by a compliment to me......damn I have to now 'like it'......

[quillius]

Maybe I just ought to email my BIS colleague David Baker. what questions should I ask?

1. What knowledge did he have while at NASA about astronaut encounters with UFOs?

2. How did he learn that astronauts were discouraged from talking about UFOs and why didn't that work for Ed Mitchell and Gordon Cooper?

3. How old was he during the Apollo program?

4. Did he work on the Gemini program?

5. Was he a 'senior scientist' during the Apollo program and on what basis did he earn that title?

Anything else?

I think questions 1 and 2 are the important ones. 3,4 and 5 are all really point scoring between Jim and McG, I dont exactly see how, whether 'joined during the Gemini Programme' meant worked on it or not has any relevance apart from winning a semantics battle.

The last part of question 2 seems to be a little loaded, his opinion as to why it didnt work on said astronauts is speculation and has no worth in this context IMO.

Jim, I would still like to understand the difference between a UFO and unusual visual phenomena and why/how the astronauts were able to differentiate. many thanks

[JimOberg]

Why don't you contact Wired magazine, since they were the ones who interviewed him, and if you look on Amazon he has indeed written all those books on the space program.

Clever! You're trying to shift the debate into an irrelevant sideshow. The question is -- what credible evidence does he provide that astronauts encountered UFOs during Apollo. You suddenly seem VERY disinterested in that theme.

[JimOberg]

I think questions 1 and 2 are the important ones. 3,4 and 5 are all really point scoring between Jim and McG, I dont exactly see how, whether 'joined during the Gemini Programme' meant worked on it or not has any relevance apart from winning a semantics battle.

The last part of question 2 seems to be a little loaded, his opinion as to why it didnt work on said astronauts is speculation and has no worth in this context IMO.

Jim, I would still like to understand the difference between a UFO and unusual visual phenomena and why/how the astronauts were able to differentiate. many thanks

Your points are ALL very well taken. As my post [above] stressed, let's keep the target in the crosshairs and not get distracted.

The only known copy on the Internet about an official Apollo-era NASA report on anomalous sightings and their significance is on my website, under the nickname that Mission Control used for them -- 'Moon Pigeons'. I think it directly addresses your last point.

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.jamesober...oonpigeons.html

Edited January 16, 2013 by JimOberg

[Antilles]

The only links I can find about moon pigeons are all made by you, Mr Oberg.

It's slightly difficult to verify something when all the posts are made by the one person.

[quillius]

Your points are ALL very well taken. As my post [above] stressed, let's keep the target in the crosshairs and not get distracted.

The only known copy on the Internet about an official Apollo-era NASA report on anomalous sightings and their significance is on my website, under the nickname that Mission Control used for them -- 'Moon Pigeons'. I think it directly addresses your last point.

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.jamesober...oonpigeons.html

thank you for taking the points onboard.

I have looked at the document on your link and read it twice, I think I need to look at it once again to try and reconcile it fully with my question.

If you do get a chance I would also appreciate your thoughts on the difference between UFOs and visual phenomena.

[quillius]

Jim,

The title is 'Moon pigeons and other unidentified visual phenomena associates with space flight'.......I am struggling to se the difference between the two?!?!

Is it that moon pigeons are the unidentifieds caught on camera versus just verbally reported visuals?

[bmk1245]

A very funny joke followed by a compliment to me......damn I have to now 'like it'......

I wasn't sarcastic, BTW.

[psyche101]

Maybe he has a hard time understanding Aussie accent

No chance. Quillius is a tough cookie, Great debater.

Indeed, I really wish some of these guys sitting on their hands wondering about how to stack rocks or how to understand E=MC2 would take a page from his book. Best debater from that side of the fence that I have seen on these boards in all the years I have been here.

[bmk1245]

[...]

Indeed, I really wish some of these guys sitting on their hands wondering about how to stack rocks or how to understand E=MC2 would take a page from his book. Best debater from that side of the fence that I have seen on these boards in all the years I have been here.

Would be hard to type... Its rather one hand on the keyboard, one in the pants...

[SwampgasBalloonBoy]

Too believable? Come on mate. I have come to respect you, don't take it down a peg.

Do you honestly form one second think a mental patient or a known crackpot actually has managed to attain something of any value when much better have failed?

Do you honestly think you are the first person to give Leigh the time of day? If this had any significance, it is hard to consider it "buried" until now. Wether he deserves such time or not is another matter. However, I have tracked down some information for you.

LINK

His claim is that he shot a video of a UFO on a golf course, and that Greer stole it. I do not now if this video actually exists, I canot find it in Greers Disclosure site. This is supposedly a still from said video:

That my friend, is a street light. Possibly a carpark light.

Leigh babbles on about conspiracy and religion. I fail to see an attraction to be frank. If this is not a dead end, I will eat my hat.

Apparently Greer's lawyers asked Leigh not to pursue the matter, and he seems to have dropped it after that.

LINK

Honestly, this is not getting better as it goes along.

Isn't it a kicker that he shares his name with the guy that wore the Bigfoot suit.

As far as I can tell, he claims to have evaluated the video.

Amazing he has a doctorate, he never went to school. His B.S. degree is in teaching from Towson State Teacher’s College and he taught art for two years to grade school children. His speciality is "Metaphysics". And that really does not surprise me. The most grandiose claims always come from fringe elements who canot support what they say. Funny that, and not only that, they relationship seems proportional. The bigger the whacko, the more wild the story. I have not heard his "evaluation" but I sure as heck would like to. He also claims he can pick lottery numbers. I canot say his claims sound like those of a trustworthy man. I do not expect much from his "evaluation". From what I can tell, he is no more qualified to evaluate a UFO than you or I. Less if anything, as he has not displayed a level of objectivity.

This is the tin foil hat side of the phenomena as far as I am concerned. These idiots cannot hold a candle to Hawking, Sagan, Drake, Kaku, Greene and their colleagues. Those are the guys who will give you answers.

Here's another reference to the supposed video http://ufologie.patr....org/indexe.htm Sorry, the link will not take directly to the exact page. On the left pane, click on "Videos", then under Table of Content, click on "Videos by Amateurs, 2"

What we have are references and still of the supposed video but no actual video are found anywhere on the net.

What p***ed me off is this Jason Greywolf Leigh walking around claiming to have shot one of the best daylight UFO footage in the history of the subject. He was interviewed and quoted in stories, but no one has asked him to show them the video? If they had and he couldn't come up with the footage, wouldn't they have dropped him faster than Paris Hilton drops her panties?

Even Mrs. Elmore-Moon, who did the first story of his UFO sighting, couldn't even asked for the footage? We must be living in the freaking twilight zone, where no one asked this guy the most important question of all, "WHERE'S THE FREAKING VIDEO?"

People keep bringing up the facts that the guy seemed nuts. I can see that, thank you. But nobody flat out say the guy never produced the video when asked. If the guy indeed failed to present the video when asked, then please point that out.

If anyone out there can get in contact with this guy, please ask him, "WHERE"S THE FREAKING VIDEO?". Until then, I will speak of this guy no more.

btw, Psyche, If you can see the photo is of a street light based on that resolution, I congratulates you on having one hell of an eyesight. Not saying you're wrong, though

Edited January 17, 2013 by SwampgasBalloonBoy

[psyche101]

Here's another reference to the supposed video http://ufologie.patr....org/indexe.htm Sorry, the link will not take directly to the exact page. On the left pane, click on "Videos", then under Table of Content, click on "Videos by Amateurs, 2"

What we have are references and still of the supposed video but no actual video are found anywhere on the net.

What p***ed me off is this Jason Greywolf Leigh walking around claiming to have shot one of the best daylight UFO footage in the history of the subject. He was interviewed and quoted in stories, but no one has asked him to show them the video? If they had and he couldn't come up with the footage, wouldn't they have dropped him faster than Paris Hilton drops her panties?

Even Mrs. Elmore-Moon, who did the first story of his UFO sighting, couldn't even asked for the footage? We must be living in the freaking twilight zone, where no one asked this guy the most important question of all, "WHERE'S THE FREAKING VIDEO?"

People keep bringing up the facts that the guy seemed nuts. I can see that, thank you. But nobody flat out say the guy never produced the video when asked. If the guy indeed failed to present the video when asked, then please point that out.

If anyone out there can get in contact with this guy, please ask him, "WHERE"S THE FREAKING VIDEO?". Until then, I will speak of this guy no more.

I think nobody bothered because it is easy to anticipate the answer.

Stephen Greer has it.

Never mind about copies, with all important UFO films that "go missing" only one copy is ever made. Why Dr Bob cannot offer up a copy that he evaluated is even more of a mystery.

btw, Psyche, If you can see the photo is of a street light based on that resolution, I congratulates you on having one hell of an eyesight. Not saying you're wrong, though

LOL, mate I am a sparky by trade

These days not on the tools so much, only for technical aspects mostly, but in design. I cost and design major installations and mate I reckon I could pick a street light at a kilometer in twilight LOL. I see so many of them I have dreams about them!

Interesting job, I have to not only know lights, but how they work. Differnt lamps give differnt lights. A car-park might want Metal Halide for security purposes, or sodium vapour lamps for the drivers, when you come out of a basement, you have to make sure the light distribution allows for human eyes to adjust to the sunlight, a morgue needs exact colours so corpses can be properly dissected an identified - colours are all important in an autopsy apparently. Throws are another aspect yet again. It's a complex field. Mate, I see and work on some interesting and varied installations. That happens when your a fossil

Edited January 17, 2013 by psyche101

[psyche101]

Would be hard to type... Its rather one hand on the keyboard, one in the pants...

That explains the leet posting!