How many of you can get to the starting line?

[DingoLingo]

Oh UFO's are real.. as for Alien UFO's in our skies.. ahh.. I think you know my answer to this..

[quillius]

Oh UFO's are real.. as for Alien UFO's in our skies.. ahh.. I think you know my answer to this..

good, I am glad we agree on the FACT UFO's are real......as for what they are, well......I know what they are not.....Venus

[cormac mac airt]

good, I am glad we agree on the FACT UFO's are real......as for what they are, well......I know what they are not.....Venus

That's one of the problems IMO with the ET crowd, the inability to understand the difference. Unidentified does not automatically equate to extraterrestrial. The former exists, otherwise they'd be called "identified". The latter has no verifiable evidence to support it, so is by no stretch of the imagination a foregone conclusion.

cormac

[quillius]

That's one of the problems IMO with the ET crowd, the inability to understand the difference. Unidentified does not automatically equate to extraterrestrial. The former exists, otherwise they'd be called "identified". The latter has no verifiable evidence to support it, so is by no stretch of the imagination a foregone conclusion.

cormac

I agree this is a problem although I wouldnt put it down to inability, but a combination of factors. Included in one of these factors is frustration in the way some discussions are handled by those more 'skeptical' than others. Add a confusion (or just alternate use) of the word UFO, throw in a pinch of pride with every post and you have a meaningless result.

'ET crowd' is quite a broad loose term BTW...

[cormac mac airt]

I agree this is a problem although I wouldnt put it down to inability, but a combination of factors. Included in one of these factors is frustration in the way some discussions are handled by those more 'skeptical' than others. Add a confusion (or just alternate use) of the word UFO, throw in a pinch of pride with every post and you have a meaningless result.

'ET crowd' is quite a broad loose term BTW...

It's just as frustrating for those more skeptical when, more often than not, the "bar" for what constitutes evidence for the existance of ET's having been here appears to have been lowered to a point beyond ridiculous. And the oft touted "starting line", particularly in this thread, would not be explaining how or when ET's got here but that they exist FIRST. Otherwise it's just another case of putting the cart before the horse.

cormac

[Just Dave]

You brought up a very significant aspect. With all the stars out there it's almost certain there are beings who are traveling to different star systems. The bigger question is whether any have been to this one or not.

This is a question of massive proportions.

Saying NO might not be accepable in majority of population since MEDIA ( internet,newspapers,TV and radio ) made its case by posting various material on this subject thus people created image that every second strange thing in the sky is UFO... even when that "ufo" is airplane,aerial phenomena or something manmade.

By saying YES ( with a proof or firm evidence of such ) would change world fundamentally. I can only say it like that because it would affect so many things in our lives that people couldn't even start to comprehend such an answer.

Yes we know people have reported UFO practically everywhere on earth or skies...i have seen massive number of videos and footage of such things, well i like being in the flow with current information stream. And i came to conclusion that we don't have evidence a firm proof of ETI visiting our planet, we do have loads of sighting reports, which means something was going on or still is..this is irrefutable fact.

So it all comes down to a simple mental subject... belief.. and it will stay like that until offical contact is made and reported on global scale.

I can say from my perspective i've seen footage that is just out there...simply cannot be explained by human mind...UFOs, most of those which in my opinion were very real looked like some sort of science fiction craft. In some cases the craft deployed another smaller craft and main part flew away while smaller one did some sort of survey ( that is just speculation, i don't have a firm idea of what it was doing ). At one time there was event with some sort of a probe observed at sea, which was just hovering there while crew recoreded it, what it was doing i don't have a clue but entire thing looked very spooky...

[quillius]

It's just as frustrating for those more skeptical when, more often than not, the "bar" for what constitutes evidence for the existance of ET's having been here appears to have been lowered to a point beyond ridiculous. And the oft touted "starting line", particularly in this thread, would not be explaining how or when ET's got here but that they exist FIRST. Otherwise it's just another case of putting the cart before the horse.

cormac

ok granted that is putting the cart before the horse, however I would imagine it depends if you are convinced they are/have been here which by default means they exist, so naturally you now look for when, how and why

[Just Dave]

so lets see..

UFO's seen in the sky - blurry photo's of a fake ufo.. - No hard evidence - FACT - FALSE

People meeting aliens - testimonies of different aliens - No hard evidence - FACT - FALSE

Crashed UFO's - testimonies from people who have seen it. Odd things put forward as Alien - No hard evidence - FACT _ dont know about that one

Government Coverup's of UFO's - again testimonies .. supposed reports.. and I could go on.. - again No hard evidence - FACT- FALSE

Ancient Aliens - there is a nice long thread on this which to be honest.. shows there is nothing in this at all so - No hard evidence - FACT_FACT

So you see.. there is no hard evidence of ufo's.. there never has been..

There is plenty of evidence which might SUGGEST ET activity you are just simply ignoring it... i don't believe it either but it does SUGGEST that something is happening... From radar images to NOT blury pictures and video which clearly show something strange. You deny everything on this topic while others take it in consideration. i'll search for the event i said earlier about that thing at sea...

[Space Commander Travis]

good, I am glad we agree on the FACT UFO's are real......as for what they are, well......I know what they are not.....Venus

Balloons.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Lord Vetinari

[Space Commander Travis]

This is a question of massive proportions.

Saying NO might not be accepable in majority of population since MEDIA ( internet,newspapers,TV and radio ) made its case by posting various material on this subject thus people created image that every second strange thing in the sky is UFO... even when that "ufo" is airplane,aerial phenomena or something manmade.

By saying YES ( with a proof or firm evidence of such ) would change world fundamentally. I can only say it like that because it would affect so many things in our lives that people couldn't even start to comprehend such an answer.

Yes we know people have reported UFO practically everywhere on earth or skies...i have seen massive number of videos and footage of such things, well i like being in the flow with current information stream. And i came to conclusion that we don't have evidence a firm proof of ETI visiting our planet, we do have loads of sighting reports, which means something was going on or still is..this is irrefutable fact.

So it all comes down to a simple mental subject... belief.. and it will stay like that until offical contact is made and reported on global scale.

I can say from my perspective i've seen footage that is just out there...simply cannot be explained by human mind...UFOs, most of those which in my opinion were very real looked like some sort of science fiction craft. In some cases the craft deployed another smaller craft and main part flew away while smaller one did some sort of survey ( that is just speculation, i don't have a firm idea of what it was doing ). At one time there was event with some sort of a probe observed at sea, which was just hovering there while crew recoreded it, what it was doing i don't have a clue but entire thing looked very spooky...

The thing that I think is, the standard explanations are often just unsatisfactory; there are so many flaws in the "secret military aircraft" explanation that it really wouldn't stand up for a moment, and easy explanations like "balloon" or "Lighthouses" for some of the best known cases still don't answer all the questions. People seem to say that "Well, we know that secret military aircraft exist, so therefore they must be more likely", or "we know there was a Lighthouse, so I'm going to say that that's what it was", and just don't seem to worry about any of the questions that remain, now that they've decided that that's the explanation.

[quillius]

Balloons.

santa

[cormac mac airt]

ok granted that is putting the cart before the horse, however I would imagine it depends if you are convinced they are/have been here which by default means they exist, so naturally you now look for when, how and why

Assuming the conclusion is not how one gets others to believe them. Presenting verifiable evidence in support of same IS. If one is convinced of their existance here before the facts then it's not a matter of it being a fact, it's a matter of belief. The belief in ET's being/having been here don't interest me, nor many others I'd imagine. The facts however DO interest me. Yet so far there are none.

cormac

[Just Dave]

This is it, it starts at 15.00 and it most certainly isnt a ballon if it were it would fly high to the sky since it would follow the steam of warm air, but this object just hovers there.

You can watch entire thing, some really good footage in there even if something else was hoaxed i don't think the object in question was...

Link

This guy Dennis has more similar videos on hes channel, i liked maybe 2 or 3 everything else is not in my interest.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nuke_em

[Space Commander Travis]

Assuming the conclusion is not how one gets others to believe them. Presenting verifiable evidence in support of same IS. If one is convinced of their existance here before the facts then it's not a matter of it being a fact, it's a matter of belief. The belief in ET's being/having been here don't interest me, nor many others I'd imagine. The facts however DO interest me. Yet so far there are none.

cormac

Do you apply the same stringent criteria to explanations for UFO cases, as mentioned above, or are you happy to follow the principle of "we know that Lighthouses (or secret Aircraft) exist, so that's good enough for me (and never mind any questions there may be about that as an explanation)"?

[quillius]

Assuming the conclusion is not how one gets others to believe them. Presenting verifiable evidence in support of same IS. If one is convinced of their existance here before the facts then it's not a matter of it being a fact, it's a matter of belief. The belief in ET's being/having been here don't interest me, nor many others I'd imagine. The facts however DO interest me. Yet so far there are none.

cormac

ok try this.

20 people in a field, they all see a UFO land, three aliens get out of craft and communicate in strange language, they get back in craft and vanish. NO one speaks to eachother until after writing down a statement, the statements are all very similar.

Belief or fact?

fact but they cannot present it as such therefore does it go back to belief?

[Just Dave]

Assuming the conclusion is not how one gets others to believe them. Presenting verifiable evidence in support of same IS. If one is convinced of their existance here before the facts then it's not a matter of it being a fact, it's a matter of belief. The belief in ET's being/having been here don't interest me, nor many others I'd imagine. The facts however DO interest me. Yet so far there are none.

cormac

Well then you are on the wrong website...FACT IS SOMETHING IS HAPPENING it's up to you to accept that or deny it... i dont need a proof to understand the happenings over last 7-8 decades they speak for themselves.. Yes some are hoaxs but what about those which arent? You goona deny those too even that they don't have any offical explanation? Here is where it gets crazy...

[cormac mac airt]

Do you apply the same stringent criteria to explanations for UFO cases, as mentioned above, or are you happy to follow the principle of "we know that Lighthouses (or secret Aircraft) exist, so that's good enough for me (and never mind any questions there may be about that as an explanation)"?

For the most part I leave Unexplained Flying Objects as just that, "Unexplained". But I also don't automatically equate them with extraterrestrials. And I did not say that all UFO sightings can be explained by Black Projects but I do know that many of those, that eventually became well known military aircraft later in time were, when inadvertantly seen earlier in their development (much to the consternation of the military), were mistaken for and reported as UFO's. This is not supposition, this is fact.

cormac

[Just Dave]

For the most part I leave Unexplained Flying Objects as just that, "Unexplained". But I also don't automatically equate them with extraterrestrials. And I did not say that all UFO sightings can be explained by Black Projects but I do know that many of those, that eventually became well known military aircraft later in time were, when inadvertantly seen earlier in their development (much to the consternation of the military), were mistaken for and reported as UFO's. This is not supposition, this is fact.

cormac

Yes but back then people didn't knew what a Blackbird would look like for them it might just be UFO, but nowdays people know what we have what we developed how might our design look like. and by saying that i would like to say that i feel that UFO reports did indeed decreased lately ( 5-8 years ). Just an observation i don't know if it's true..

[cormac mac airt]

ok try this.

20 people in a field, they all see a UFO land, three aliens get out of craft and communicate in strange language, they get back in craft and vanish. NO one speaks to eachother until after writing down a statement, the statements are all very similar.

Belief or fact?

fact but they cannot present it as such therefore does it go back to belief?

In this hypothetical it may be fact to them, but without verifiable evidence they can present to others it's meaningless to anyone else. And therein lies the rub, you can't present something as fact to others with verifiable evidence you don't have.

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

Well then you are on the wrong website...FACT IS SOMETHING IS HAPPENING it's up to you to accept that or deny it... i dont need a proof to understand the happenings over last 7-8 decades they speak for themselves.. Yes some are hoaxs but what about those which arent? You goona deny those too even that they don't have any offical explanation? Here is where it gets crazy...

And I've never said that nothing is happening, but one shouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the explanation is extraterrestrials. However, more often than not, that's exactly what happens.

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

Yes but back then people didn't knew what a Blackbird would look like for them it might just be UFO, but nowdays people know what we have what we developed how might our design look like. and by saying that i would like to say that i feel that UFO reports did indeed decreased lately ( 5-8 years ). Just an observation i don't know if it's true..

I completely understand 'why' people would think what they did, but in the same way that they jumped to the conclusion that some Black Projects were UFO's the UFO crowd has quite often jumped to the conclusion that UFO's equal Extraterrestrials. Both are false assumptions based on little to no actual evidence.

cormac

[Just Dave]

And I've never said that nothing is happening, but one shouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the explanation is extraterrestrials. However, more often than not, that's exactly what happens.

cormac

Yes i agree with you here reminds me on this guy :

Like Boonyzarc did first we need to fully analyze a certain event, and if we cannot and i mean definitly cannot find a proper firm explanation based on circumstances event happened it might have been some sort of UFO phenomena and even then we cannot firmly say such thing because we still dont fully understand many things.

So we are back to suggestions... Evidence might suggest some sort ETI but still can be some sort of cosmic phenomena we dont understand yet.

Space is really a vast place to be. Maybe some sort of ET civilization is coming here or not we cannot be sure that it does or doesn't... that is where military comes in the picture..

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nuke_em

[quillius]

In this hypothetical it may be fact to them, but without verifiable evidence they can present to others it's meaningless to anyone else. And therein lies the rub, you can't present something as fact to others with verifiable evidence you don't have.

cormac

does it not still remain a fact though?

[cormac mac airt]

does it not still remain a fact though?

For them, yes, but only for them. But where ET's are concerned we're not talking about what 'may' be factual for a person or persons who've allegedly seen ET's. But what they are attempting to present as fact to others without evidence. These are two separate issues.

And all this is assuming that these individuals saw what they claimed they saw, which could be explained by any number of things other than actual extraterrestrials.

cormac

[wimfloppp]

I think we should set up cameres on all the most likely corn fields.There must be certain areas where these circles occure.