My, my, - ARMED guard stops school shooter

[questionmark]

Good to see a guard managed to get the gun from him. How did the kid get the gun in the first place though? Did he get it from the black market? Or did he grab it from his parents nightstand?

We will find out...unless nobody cares about the story next week anymore. I'll try to keep updated.

[green_dude777]

No, but as you were so keen about pointing out Mexico I thought I take you up on that:

It is pretty cynic to be the cause of a problem (cause the drugs are not for consuming in Mexico) and give them the means to fight their drug wars and then bemoan that their gun control does not work.

I rest my case.

This doesn't rest your case, it proves my point. The bad guys (you know, the ones who don't follow the laws) can't buy guns in their own country (Mexico), so they illegally (meaning not allowed) bring them from another country (the U.S.). The good guys (ones who follow the laws) don't have guns because they don't illegally (not allowed) possess guns.

Us getting Mexico's drugs again proves my point that we can't control our borders enough to prevent illegal goods from coming in.

That article is nothing but Mexico blaming America for its problems. It isn't the U.S. arming good guys to combat the cartels. Did you think I would skip the link and take your word for it?

But you did open up another interesting fact that I'll remind you; despite the fact that our government doesn't want me and other law abiding citizens to possess these weapons, they were more than glad to sell some illegally to some shady individuals down south.... here's more detail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Yeah, we should trust our government without question.

[green_dude777]

Good to see a guard managed to get the gun from him. How did the kid get the gun in the first place though? Did he get it from the black market? Or did he grab it from his parents nightstand?

That is a good question, unfortunately in this whole 'gun - no gun' debate in this country, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Unfortunately no one is interested in responsibility here in the U.S.

[jugoso]

You know, I did think you were an objective thinker before, but now I just think you have an agenda, and since you're agenda is being refuted with this particular instance, you're grasping by switching to a broader topic.

I too think it sucks that we need armed guards, but I'm not willing to leave law abiding citizens exposed because of the crazies. Ask Mexico how well their gun regulations work, I bet the law abiding people of Juarez wish they could defend themselves.

Totally different issue. When is the last time you heard about a shooting in a school in Mexico??

[Gromdor]

Seems like the shooter had something personal with the the shootee and it wasn't a mass shooting. He was also disarmed after the fact. The thing that worries me, is not the gun control issue but the fact that people are willing to turn the school into an armed detention center. Armed guards can't be at all locations at all times, so what is next? Automated turrets in school? Armed drones hovering over the schools? Maybe explosive collars on the whole population? Unless you want to privatize all of America's security, you have to remember that it will be the government that will provide security for all these places. Do you really want a TSA type of organization created to guard our schools and theaters or wherever else happens to have a mass shooting?

[green_dude777]

Totally different issue. When is the last time you heard about a shooting in a school in Mexico??

Explain how it's a 'totally different issue'. Innocent people without the means to protect themselves being victimized in gun free zones by those who don't obey the laws.

[Uncle Sam]

Explain how it's a 'totally different issue'. Innocent people without the means to protect themselves being victimized in gun free zones by those who don't obey the laws.

The only difference is instead of legal gun owner shops, we got the cartel/police/military controlling the weapons. Due to illegal alien smuggling operations, it gives the cartel money to buy weapons here in the United States with the fake I.D.s, then smuggle them back across the boarder.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Uncle Sam

[green_dude777]

Seems like the shooter had something personal with the the shootee and it wasn't a mass shooting. He was also disarmed after the fact. The thing that worries me, is not the gun control issue but the fact that people are willing to turn the school into an armed detention center. Armed guards can't be at all locations at all times, so what is next? Automated turrets in school? Armed drones hovering over the schools? Maybe explosive collars on the whole population? Unless you want to privatize all of America's security, you have to remember that it will be the government that will provide security for all these places. Do you really want a TSA type of organization created to guard our schools and theaters or wherever else happens to have a mass shooting?

No, I want people to have the means to defend themselves. I live in Phoenix, and some guy just shot a few people in an office building. Thing is, we're an open carry state, and the reason this guy was able to get away is because that particular building had the 'no guns' sign posted. Had he been in a lot of other places, you would read a story similar to this http://www.dailymail...hases-door.html

Edited February 1, 2013 by green_dude777

[Sweetpumper]

Totally different issue. When is the last time you heard about a shooting in a school in Mexico??

We have a lot less people hanging from bridges without heads.

[lightly]

well good. glad it turned out ok. i can relate to questionmark's allusion to a more peaceful time in the U.S. I grew up in a rural area and nearly everyone had guns (mostly hunting rifles) and nobody shot anybody else . The difference is in people ... not in guns•

[questionmark]

well good. glad it turned out ok. i can relate to questionmark's allusion to a more peaceful time in the U.S. I grew up in a rural area and nearly everyone had guns (mostly hunting rifles) and nobody shot anybody else . The difference is in people ... not in guns•

and that at the time people had enough sense to not let any brain amputated near a gun (well, exceptions like Ed Gein were that, exceptions).

Edited February 1, 2013 by questionmark

[Michelle]

Yeah, everybody had glass cabinets to store their guns instead of gun safes.

[questionmark]

Yeah, everybody had glass cabinets to store their guns instead of gun safes.

At my parents there were two functional guns hanging over the mantlepiece, I can't remember any of us 5 kids ever touching them.

[green_dude777]

Yeah, everybody had glass cabinets to store their guns instead of gun safes.

I would like to clarify this for both sides though. Even though there are plenty of people with glass gun cabinets (my family included) the ammo compartment tends to not be glass. So as someone could break the glass to get a gun, they would need to do quite a bit more work to get into the locked and all wood ammo compartment underneath the guns.

[Michelle]

I would like to clarify this for both sides though. Even though there are plenty of people with glass gun cabinets (my family included) the ammo compartment tends to not be glass. So as someone could break the glass to get a gun, they would need to do quite a bit more work to get into the locked and all wood ammo compartment underneath the guns.

A crowbar and about three seconds would be all it would take. When I was growing up the guns were loaded anyway and like Q said, four of us kids and our friends never touched them. We all knew where the key was...on top of the cabinet.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Michelle

[+and-then]

I have no agenda, but I grew up in a time when the biggest worry a parent had about his kids drowned in the river or got a bloody nose in a school brawl. And I would like that time to come back for the sake of my grandkids.

You mean back at a time when the Ten Commandments could be found on a wall in school without litigation following? Or when mentioning God or teaching the difference between right and wrong based on a Judeo-Christian ideal? Not attacking you Q, but the time frames and the situations are undeniable. Those who rail at Christianity never admit that even with hypocrites accounted for, having that ideology in the public square made for more reasonable interaction among citizens.

[questionmark]

You mean back at a time when the Ten Commandments could be found on a wall in school without litigation following? Or when mentioning God or teaching the difference between right and wrong based on a Judeo-Christian ideal? Not attacking you Q, but the time frames and the situations are undeniable. Those who rail at Christianity never admit that even with hypocrites accounted for, having that ideology in the public square made for more reasonable interaction among citizens.

I don't think that religion was the driving force, the driving force was respect and the knowledge that violence is not a suitable means for conflict resolution, something we today teach our kids from baby on by abandoning them in front of the TV watching all kinds of gun shows.

Edited February 1, 2013 by questionmark

[green_dude777]

You mean back at a time when the Ten Commandments could be found on a wall in school without litigation following? Or when mentioning God or teaching the difference between right and wrong based on a Judeo-Christian ideal? Not attacking you Q, but the time frames and the situations are undeniable. Those who rail at Christianity never admit that even with hypocrites accounted for, having that ideology in the public square made for more reasonable interaction among citizens.

I second Questionmark's reply. Maybe you forgot about the years between 1095 and 1291.

[+and-then]

I don't think that religion was the driving force, the driving force was respect and the knowledge that violence is not a suitable means for conflict resolution, something we today teach our kids from baby on by abandoning them in front of the TV watching all kinds of gun shows.

So society hasn't become coarser and more violent since the early 70s? Are we to attribute all that to violent TV? And if so, why would people watch something for entertainment that they had not become enamored of for other reasons?

[green_dude777]

So society hasn't become coarser and more violent since the early 70s? Are we to attribute all that to violent TV? And if so, why would people watch something for entertainment that they had not become enamored of for other reasons?

What are you suggesting? I don't think you really want to try and defend the stance that states we're violent because of lack of religion.

[questionmark]

So society hasn't become coarser and more violent since the early 70s? Are we to attribute all that to violent TV? And if so, why would people watch something for entertainment that they had not become enamored of for other reasons?

Seeing the US from the outside like me you would have noticed a big change in what the perception of reality is there. In the 80s there were discussions, in the early 90s if it did not happen on TV it did not happen and by the end 90s nobody quoted any books anymore but some TV show. Yes, a lot has changed since I was a kid. Even the perception of what is going on in the world. We have the CSI effect, a perception that society is getting more violent (most accentuated among those who watch hours and hours of crime shows) while in effect violent crime has been decreasing since the 90s. And all that seems to lead to just one end: more people slipping off the rocker (probably paranoia driven) and more people needing to pack iron until they can't walk anymore to feel "safe".

And that religion changes nothing about that is easily observed in the Bible Belt, that is on average just as violent as the more "progressive" areas.

[Rafterman]

And you think that this should be the norm or are you just being cynic?

I think we should take the issue of school security as seriously as we take fire safety.

No one in their right mind would ever say that we don't have enough money for a fire alarms or a sprinkler system. We also wouldn't have firemen on duty without the proper tools to do their job.

[Rafterman]

Agreed. Although I feel it necessary to add that the prevalence of school shootings seems to occur predeominantly in the US. At least this one appears to have involved a "beef" between two individuals and wasn´t just a turkey-shoot.

Interesting comments from someone from Mexico.

[Bama13]

Seeing the US from the outside like me you would have noticed a big change in what the perception of reality is there. In the 80s there were discussions, in the early 90s if it did not happen on TV it did not happen and by the end 90s nobody quoted any books anymore but some TV show. Yes, a lot has changed since I was a kid. Even the perception of what is going on in the world. We have the CSI effect, a perception that society is getting more violent (most accentuated among those who watch hours and hours of crime shows) while in effect violent crime has been decreasing since the 90s. And all that seems to lead to just one end: more people slipping off the rocker (probably paranoia driven) and more people needing to pack iron until they can't walk anymore to feel "safe".

And that religion changes nothing about that is easily observed in the Bible Belt, that is on average just as violent as the more "progressive" areas.

Seem to remember a lot of Dectective shows and Westerns on TV in the 60s and 70s. Then there was a favorite of mine (which I recently found reruns of on MeTV) "Combat!". Plenty of people getting shot on TV in the 60s and 70s. Not many school shootings back then, at least that I'm aware of.

[green_dude777]

I'm also going to point out in this thread that I've pointed out before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_school_massacre

Well before the time frame 'and then' is referring to, and well before the scary assault weapons that common people still don't have.