seeder Posted February 1, 2013 #6076 Share Posted February 1, 2013 "In my previous role I was an engineer and I did this for 23 years. I know what it takes to quarry, move, finish and position hundred tonne blocks and I know it is beyond the capability of people just emergent from the stone age." http://www.unexplain...10#entry4571272 :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 1, 2013 #6077 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) What? I thought pages and pages back you said you were a teacher? ....cause I seem to remember commenting that I hope you weren't presenting your theories to your students cause they might grow up having a screwed up view of the world? ....and then at some point you were an engineer? How many times have you climbed Mt. Everest? Zoser at the British Museum LOL, I followed that link, and the subsequent ones, some of them. I believe he worked in all these positions. That is why there are so many. I imagine he lasted about 24 hours in each. The BS is strong with this one. But I have known that for some time now. Edited February 1, 2013 by psyche101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 1, 2013 #6078 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Analogies are nice but are never going to prove that Protzen and his team were capable of precision architecture. If anyone could replicate the great work of the ancient Peruvians they would have put the claim to rest and done it by now. Nobody has and nobody can. All it would take is one decent size block cut and positioned to precision. We are still waiting. They have done, and it has been put to rest. People like you who cannot understand, and therefore refuse to understand and claim your ignorance is universal are the only people perplexed by this mundane line of investigation. The rest of the world has caught on, you know, the people who actually do work in Engineering, Math, and Museums. You are very spoiled to have such astute people as Harte, Oniomancer, Seeder, WOH, S2F and Abe persist in trying to help you understand. In my opinion, you are in their debt, but I doubt you could fathom that. Edited February 1, 2013 by psyche101 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted February 1, 2013 #6079 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I think we should stop niggling Zoser about his clai s of employment, it makes you look petty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 1, 2013 #6080 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I think we should stop niggling Zoser about his clai s of employment, it makes you look petty. Personally I dont see what the issue is.. if zoser puts the info on public forums then its fair game. When we discredit Chris Dunn as having no expertise in his subject no-one gets concerned about it do they? Or any other of the many so called experts who we research and learn are in fact...total plonkers making huge claims? But more to the point, what does claiming to be an engineer/and also being a staff at The B-Museum, say - in the context of this thread - with all his glaring lack of 'engineering' understanding, and poor knowledge of the ages of man and mans abilities? Most importantly, any real engineer and MOST DEFINITELY anyone involved with archeology/museum work would NOT be under the impression aliens did it, and that pyramids produced power. Anyone who has claimed in the space of less than 3 months to be a teacher (if true), an engineer and museum staff, both of which I saw with my own eyes... can then expect to be considered 'suspect'. We are all big boys and girls here! Besides, his claims are just FOOD for skeptics. I believe we all know when dealing with someone, 'what they're really all about' . Edited February 1, 2013 by seeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted February 1, 2013 #6081 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I think we should stop niggling Zoser about his clai s of employment, it makes you look petty. I disagree. If he puts out what we believe are lies, then we should call him on it. Far too often you see people claiming to be something they are not in order to solidify their position. Someone who states that they are a teach, an engineer, a museum worker among other things when they also state silliness such as "if it's on the History Channell than it is true" and "it never freezes in Peru" needs to be called out. Analogies are nice but are never going to prove that Protzen and his team were capable of precision architecture. If anyone could replicate the great work of the ancient Peruvians they would have put the claim to rest and done it by now. Nobody has and nobody can. All it would take is one decent size block cut and positioned to precision. We are still waiting. I'm still waiting to see aliens cut anything at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted February 1, 2013 #6082 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I'm saying we should play the ball, not the bowler that's all. If he's speaking arrant nonsense, then discuss the nonsense, but then it's hardly fair that we don't discuss his use of his profession as a way of reinforcing a point as I've done the same in this very thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 1, 2013 #6083 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I started reading this thread from the beginning following Abes link, but have become sidetracked by the 2009 discussion on the same theory... judging by reading the last pages first it shows that any discussion like this - never gets anywhere, have look for yourselves! But THAT one ended at page 125.. http://www.unexplain...pic=171861&st=0 . Edited February 1, 2013 by seeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6084 Share Posted February 1, 2013 "In my previous role I was an engineer and I did this for 23 years. I know what it takes to quarry, move, finish and position hundred tonne blocks and I know it is beyond the capability of people just emergent from the stone age." http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=237842&st=1110#entry4571272 I can get my friends privilege entry to the British Museum. Just let me know dates in advanced. I do a bit of teaching in my spare time and I was an engineer too. All the qualifications needed to research ancient artefacts. My colleagues at the BM tend to be dead heads when it comes to AA theories but they are warming around to the idea slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6085 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I think we should stop niggling Zoser about his clai s of employment, it makes you look petty. One may get the impression that they have not succeeded with the debate itself. Resorting instead to character attack. Never mind they do it to Foerster and the others. Why should I care. Hope you enjoyed the post about the GP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6086 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Well, we're just going to have to agree that you're wrong. You've done nothing to eliminate conventional hand work as a method for their creation and have even had it's feasibility demonstrated for you. At the same time, you have not explained how a rock could be so squishy as to sag under it's own weight yet yet solid enough that it could be pushed around, without collapsing completely. To add to what harte said earlier, the oprateive word is not vibration, but pressure. The piezo in piezoelectric. To amount to a vibration, the pressure would need to be intermittent rather than constant, as it would be under the weight of the surrounding stone. It's the phase change that produces the current, so once the crystal is deformed, the current stops. Quartz crystals in watches vibrate because they're specifically shaped into resonators mounted to allow them to move freely in three dimensions and stimulated with an electric "striker", like a bell or a tuning fork: http://electronics.h...uartz-watch.htm What happens if you touch a bell or a tuning fork though? It dampens out the vibration. Your rocks are in contact with the ground and with each other so they are not free to vibrate in their natural mode. Moreover, as stated, the individual quartz crystals are not free to vibrate because they're locked between cyrstals of other minerals which are not only not peizoelectric but vibrate at different rates. To that effect, each rock is also a different size and shape so even if they could vibrate, each one would do so individually at a different rate, resulting in a mishmash of conflicting harmonics. You're also making much of the odd man out stones but fail to note examples where where this runs against your concept of unified design, particularly in the case of stone circles. Not only are many of these of stone types incompatible with your idea but some contain a variety of different stones. Stonehenge for instance is made up of no less than 20 different stone types. In any case, neither they nor many of the constructs else where fit with the suggested giza power plant scheme as there is no structure for containment ,as the rock needs to soaking wet to be conductive. Your attempt at a refutation is easily derailed by the idea that sound is pressure. That's what is creates. It's impossible to ignore the details of the pyramid's construction. The corrugated floor is a give away. the granite in the upper chamber was designed to 'ring'. The frequency itself is known because people have tested it. Do your research and you will find that lots of details support the idea that the granite was designed to be in constant resonant vibration. By analogy, it's like historians in a thousand years time coming across a car engine and surmising that it was no more than a piece of cultural art. Ignoring the design features, that is the conclusion they would reach. Well ignore the design features of the GP and one assumes it was a tomb. I would direct you again to the items in this post. All very significant and relevant. http://www.unexplain...45#entry4645074 Edited February 1, 2013 by zoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 1, 2013 #6087 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Your attempt at a refutation is easily derailed by the idea that sound is pressure. That's what is creates. It's impossible to ignore the details of the pyramid's construction. impossible for who? Zawi Hawass? my god you're like a broken record... what do your colleagues at the Museum think of your theories? And as an engineer why are you so confused? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6088 Share Posted February 1, 2013 impossible for who? Zawi Hawass? my god you're like a broken record... what do your colleagues at the Museum think of your theories? And as an engineer why are you so confused? . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnEjaHdzfXw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 1, 2013 #6089 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I do a bit of teaching in my spare time and I was an engineer too. spare time? When exactly is that? You're on the forum early mornings, and in the eves as soon as you're home your straight on, and all day and all night at the weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 1, 2013 #6090 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I can get my friends privilege entry to the British Museum. thats amazing considering its FREE to visit, whats the privilege then? Ive done all the museums quite regular with exception of the last 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 1, 2013 #6091 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Chris Dunn again.... we all agree hes a total idiot who doesn't know what hes on about. But he must sell BOOKS! have a read of this for some solid info on the pyramids/AA theories http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=171861&st=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6092 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) spare time? When exactly is that? You're on the forum early mornings, and in the eves as soon as you're home your straight on, and all day and all night at the weekends. If you guys were blessed with a little wit, you wold realise where my disdain for archaeologists actually comes from Just off to watch some AA. About half way through them now. Some awesome stuff. Edited February 1, 2013 by zoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6093 Share Posted February 1, 2013 thats amazing considering its FREE to visit, whats the privilege then? Ive done all the museums quite regular with exception of the last 2 years Just because you disagree with me it doesn't mean that I don't still class you as friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oniomancer Posted February 1, 2013 #6094 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Your attempt at a refutation is easily derailed by the idea that sound is pressure. That's what is creates. It's impossible to ignore the details of the pyramid's construction. The corrugated floor is a give away. the granite in the upper chamber was designed to 'ring'. The frequency itself is known because people have tested it. Do your research and you will find that lots of details support the idea that the granite was designed to be in constant resonant vibration. By analogy, it's like historians in a thousand years time coming across a car engine and surmising that it was no more than a piece of cultural art. Ignoring the design features, that is the conclusion they would reach. Well ignore the design features of the GP and one assumes it was a tomb. I would direct you again to the items in this post. All very significant and relevant. http://www.unexplain...45#entry4645074 Again, that's vibration. Vibratory pressure needs to be intermittent. Even dunn grasps this fact but he misses the obvious inference by that much. What you and he both continue to miss is that vibration of the separate quartz crystals is not possible as long as they're contained within the granite matrix. The weight of the oscillating mass versus the amount of energy needed to make it oscillate is also a factor.. The amount of energy needed to produce a strong resonance in that much stone should be readily noticeable and measurable. Curiously, dunn also seems to contradict himself. He states that: " Some damping may occur if the beams adjacent faces are so close that they rub together. " but it doesn't seem to occur to him that this might occur between the blocks of the walls, etc. themselves, regardless of their being partially suspended. That is, even though the blocks may be vibrating as a unit, they are not vibrating like a solid. The fact that they may vibrate is meaningless. The tops on all my cookware ring too. That doesn't mean they were designed too. they make quite a bit out of the frequency of the coffer and the chambers. One thing they don't mention though is that the coffer has a big chunk out of it, and the upper chambers are damaged, which would alter the frequency of both. There's ample reason to suggest this construction design was done to divert compressive forces from the weight of the pyramid away from chamber, which effect it would have, a lesson they likely would've learned after the collapse of the Meidum pyramid and the near disaster of the bent pyramid. It's claimed by dunn that a single chamber would've been enough to do the job as a roof support, but a smart engineer would leave a margin for error. The aforementioned damage suggests they were smart to include just such a multiple redundancy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted February 1, 2013 #6095 Share Posted February 1, 2013 [...] The corrugated floor is a give away. the granite in the upper chamber was designed to 'ring'. The frequency itself is known because people have tested it. Do your research and you will find that lots of details support the idea that the granite was designed to be in constant resonant vibration. [...] And who plays the role of a Constant Grand Vibrator?"Granite sings", right... As if simple brick does not "sing", or log, whether wet or dry... "Resonates between 2 and 9 Hz". Thats freaking "good" resonator... Cmon, zoser, all your "resonates", "sings" imply that some mental institution spaceship crashed in Egypt back then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 1, 2013 #6096 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Again, that's vibration. Vibratory pressure needs to be intermittent. Even dunn grasps this fact but he misses the obvious inference by that much. What you and he both continue to miss is that vibration of the separate quartz crystals is not possible as long as they're contained within the granite matrix. The weight of the oscillating mass versus the amount of energy needed to make it oscillate is also a factor.. The amount of energy needed to produce a strong resonance in that much stone should be readily noticeable and measurable. Curiously, dunn also seems to contradict himself. He states that: " Some damping may occur if the beams adjacent faces are so close that they rub together. " but it doesn't seem to occur to him that this might occur between the blocks of the walls, etc. themselves, regardless of their being partially suspended. That is, even though the blocks may be vibrating as a unit, they are not vibrating like a solid. The fact that they may vibrate is meaningless. The tops on all my cookware ring too. That doesn't mean they were designed too. they make quite a bit out of the frequency of the coffer and the chambers. One thing they don't mention though is that the coffer has a big chunk out of it, and the upper chambers are damaged, which would alter the frequency of both. There's ample reason to suggest this construction design was done to divert compressive forces from the weight of the pyramid away from chamber, which effect it would have, a lesson they likely would've learned after the collapse of the Meidum pyramid and the near disaster of the bent pyramid. It's claimed by dunn that a single chamber would've been enough to do the job as a roof support, but a smart engineer would leave a margin for error. The aforementioned damage suggests they were smart to include just such a multiple redundancy. "Three facts, however, militate against this (dunns) theory". (found under the heading: The Queen’s Chamber) http://www.eridu.co.uk/Author/egypt/rivaldunn.html Not that I think anyone needs to really consider Dunn is right. He wrote a book making wild claims, just like Daniken. The same strategy with the same gullible readers who line his pockets anyway nice to see zoser is currently reading the earlier thread/link on the AA I posted...might keep him busy all night if we are lucky.. we can but hope . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6097 Share Posted February 1, 2013 And who plays the role of a Constant Grand Vibrator? "Granite sings", right... As if simple brick does not "sing", or log, whether wet or dry... "Resonates between 2 and 9 Hz". Thats freaking "good" resonator... Cmon, zoser, all your "resonates", "sings" imply that some mental institution spaceship crashed in Egypt back then... Difficult to debunk I agree. Dunn has nailed it. In principle at least. No one thought to ask the question why the granite was there. No one thought to ask what purpose the vacant chambers above the upper chamber served. They could quite easily be solid masonry. They are not. The beams could quite easily be precision cut. They are not. The upper chamber could quite easily be placed flat on the core masonry. It is not. Everything fits. Listen to Dunn's clip above and note the experiments conducted in the grand gallery. It all fits like a glove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6098 Share Posted February 1, 2013 "Three facts, however, militate against this (dunns) theory". (found under the heading: The Queen’s Chamber) http://www.eridu.co..../rivaldunn.html Not that I think anyone needs to really consider Dunn is right. He wrote a book making wild claims, just like Daniken. The same strategy with the same gullible readers who line his pockets anyway nice to see zoser is currently reading the earlier thread/link on the AA I posted...might keep him busy all night if we are lucky.. we can but hope Which link was that? I've been busy wading though the AA docs. What have I missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoser Posted February 1, 2013 #6099 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The Indian peoples of Southern California also found granite a very useful material. Granite's interlocking crystalline structure makes it tough stuff - slow to wear and very shatter resistant - and the women took good advantage of these properties as they pounded acorns, seeds, and other food items in granite mortars with pestles of the same material. Certain very special granite boulders, called "ringing rocks" were also important to Indian peoples of this area. The ringing rocks look like ordinary granite, but when struck with another rock, they resonate, making a clear, ringing sound, somewhat like a heavy bell. Not much is known about these ringing rocks except that they were apparently sounded to accompany singing during the girls' puberty ceremony. One has recently been discovered on Palomar Mountain. http://www.robinhewitt.com/write/nature/fire.html Fascinating what can be discovered in the way of confirmatory logistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted February 1, 2013 #6100 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Difficult to debunk I agree. Dunn has nailed it. In principle at least. [...]There is nothing to debunk. How'd you debunk "How many 2+2? Blue!" Its simply ridiculous. [...] No one thought to ask what purpose the vacant chambers above the upper chamber served. [...] Ok, I'll ask you: why? [...] They could quite easily be solid masonry. They are not. The beams could quite easily be precision cut. They are not. [...] Ok... but now you are throwing easily. So beams could quite easily be precision cut, and they could quite easily be solid masonry. Did I missed something? From "impossible" to "easily"? [...] The upper chamber could quite easily be placed flat on the core masonry. It is not. [...] Is it? And easily again? [...] It all fits like a glove. Yeah, fits like your glove on the elks hoof. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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