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Atheism - any contradictions or 'problems'?


Liquid Gardens

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Folks, let's get back to the topic at hand, and remember - don't feed the trolls.

Crikey - turn it down a bit, this topic is about atheism, not Christianity

~ Paranoid Android,

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Oh dear it seems i've upset some people..;)

Personally I'm still trying to work out what the thread starter is asking, is he asking for help in trying to understand atheism or what?

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Never understood that phrase. Surely if the ass is backwards, everything is as normal. Or do many people have buttocks on the front? :P

one could say bass akwards lol

Edited by The Silver Thong
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Oh dear it seems i've upset some people.. ;)

Personally I'm still trying to work out what the thread starter is asking, is he asking for help in trying to understand atheism or what?

Atheism is very simple the none belief in a super man that watches you while you sleep. It has no rules no leaders nothing that could give rise to something as corupt as say a Pope or a Mullah or what have you.

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Atheism is very simple the none belief in a super man that watches you while you sleep. It has no rules no leaders nothing that could give rise to something as corupt as say a Pope or a Mullah or what have you.

I've already said most Organised Religions are corrupt and spiritually perverted, but unlike atheists i don't let O.R. come between me and Jesus..:)

"Ungodly men have slipped in among you" (Jude 4)

They'll try every trick in the book to turn you off Jesus, they're everywhere including net forums so watch your back, i can spot 'em a mile off which is why they hate my guts.

Incidentally I'm age 64 and with the 'Christian Waymarkers' group, and as long as I keep getting emails and PM's like this around the net I know I'm doing something right-

"Crikey, I would like you to know that the result of reading your posts I am left with the desire to pick up my bible for the first time in years"

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Incidentally I'm age 64 and with the 'Christian Waymarkers' group, and as long as I keep getting emails and PM's like this around the net I know I'm doing something right-

"Crikey, I would like you to know that the result of reading your posts I am left with the desire to pick up my bible for the first time in years"

LOL, who sent you that? If anything, your posts would make me throw the bible in the trash bin (if I owned one).

Anyway, back to original question: Of course atheism does not have the problems that theism has, A disbelief in preposterous tales is not the same as a belief in preposterous tales.... once again, this is simply another cheap try by a theist to set up a false equivalency.

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I've already said most Organised Religions are corrupt and spiritually perverted, but unlike atheists i don't let O.R. come between me and Jesus.. :)

"Ungodly men have slipped in among you" (Jude 4)

They'll try every trick in the book to turn you off Jesus, they're everywhere including net forums so watch your back, i can spot 'em a mile off which is why they hate my guts.

Incidentally I'm age 64 and with the 'Christian Waymarkers' group, and as long as I keep getting emails and PM's like this around the net I know I'm doing something right-

"Crikey, I would like you to know that the result of reading your posts I am left with the desire to pick up my bible for the first time in years"

I've already said most Organised Religions are corrupt and spiritually perverted

Oh my you are so lost you need to attack atheists and your own flavor flav lol

For hcertain people ihave crept in unnoticed jwho long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert kthe grace of our God into sensuality and ldeny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

How dare you ever tell another what there god is you fool.

Edited by The Silver Thong
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Crikey, if you want to make a thread dedicated to acting as a drama queen, I say go for it. ATM you're kind of derailing this thread with your asinine ramblings.

Edited by Rlyeh
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The buddha never claimed to be god, but that did not stop people from makeing him into one. He actually taught that his own teachings would pass away like everything else. He was probably wrong there.

On this business of the Buddha being a god, while I suppose some people may have that idea, the universal view is, "The Buddha is dead." It's part of the chants. What you see in a movie like "The King and I" utterly misrepresents Buddhism. Another point here -- the Buddha is not "worshiped," the Buddha is venerated. The difference is hard to see in practice, but there is a difference.
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Atheism is very simple the none belief in a super man that watches you while you sleep. It has no rules no leaders nothing that could give rise to something as corupt as say a Pope or a Mullah or what have you.

Yeah nothing that might lead to the invasion of tibet, and the murder and disappearance of religous leaders.

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On this business of the Buddha being a god, while I suppose some people may have that idea, the universal view is, "The Buddha is dead." It's part of the chants. What you see in a movie like "The King and I" utterly misrepresents Buddhism. Another point here -- the Buddha is not "worshiped," the Buddha is venerated. The difference is hard to see in practice, but there is a difference.

Well I totally agree with you on most of that... But Buddhism is split up all over the place. There are indeed people that worship him as god like, though I don't think it's in the same context as a creator god.

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Is there such a thing as evil? ...it sucks when bad things happens to us seems to be the meaning most use.

Thats why I put 'evil " in quote marks. For me there are thoughts and actions which have negative or destuctive outcomes, many which are neutral, and those which have constructive and positive outcomes.

As a human, able to see consequences, and make informed choices, my obligation is always to think and act in ways which should be creative/constructive and increase human potential. Evil is a human intent. It does not occur in nature. It is a label we give where a person deliberately choses destructive outcomes for them selves or others.

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Yeah nothing that might lead to the invasion of tibet, and the murder and disappearance of religous leaders.

Nonsense. Communism is a belief system; very much like a religion, in fact.

Atheism did not lead to the brutal annexation of TIbet, the religion of communism did.

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Nonsense. Communism is a belief system; very much like a religion, in fact.

Atheism did not lead to the brutal annexation of TIbet, the religion of communism did.

The invasion of Tibet actually had little to do with Communism and a lot to do with China's ancient view of itself and of its surrounding countries, and the expansionism of the vigorous and recently victorious Communists in China. I strongly doubt such an invasion would occur today.

There are disturbing signs of strong anti-Chinese feeling in the population in Vietnam, not "anti-Chinese people," but "anti-Chinese government" and this is even reflected sometimes in government positions. Remember that the Vietnamese government today has a considerable moral debt and long historical connection with the Communists in China, and they have both evolved away from Stalinist strict socialism toward a more liberal, less anti-Western, more market oriented point of view. So they have much in common and are natural allies.

That said, there is really a disturbing anti-Chinese feeling becoming more and more manifest, something I think both Hanoi and Beijing need to pay attention to. I suppose it is to be expected that a nation like the Vietnamese would have a certain antipathy and envy about another state that is so much larger that a certain hegemony is unavoidable, but it worries me.

Now back to the OP. Communism is atheist. Indeed, it is materialist in its atheism (meaning there is nothing but matter/energy and space/time). Most Communists are less definite about this, especially in Asia. Atheism is nothing new -- lots of Buddhists are atheists and neither of the two major Chinese philosophical traditions do much more than nod to the traditional gods, but the atheism/agnosticism is not materialist. Taoism has the Tao and Confucianism has Heaven (which is a sort-of community view of the gods and whatever else). Buddhism likewise has its non-material aspects -- Samsara and karma.

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Anyway, back to original question: Of course atheism does not have the problems that theism has, A disbelief in preposterous tales is not the same as a belief in preposterous tales.... once again, this is simply another cheap try by a theist to set up a false equivalency.

Well it might be if you just overlook the little fact that I'm not a theist.

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Nonsense. Communism is a belief system; very much like a religion, in fact.

Atheism did not lead to the brutal annexation of TIbet, the religion of communism did.

Sure, then the crusades where simply an impirialist action swell. That particular brand of communism is atheist. You dont get to seperate the two to pretend that atheism cant be dangerous like anything else, especially when part of the premis for the invasion is that religions are dangerous. Like it or not communist atheism exists, is dangerous, and is just a bad as any zealot religion.

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Nonsense. Communism is a belief system; very much like a religion, in fact.

Atheism did not lead to the brutal annexation of TIbet, the religion of communism did.

I've read Marx's Communist Manifesto and I don't recall anything about invading neighboring countries in it. In fact that's been something capitalist countries have been doing for most of history.

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I've read Marx's Communist Manifesto and I don't recall anything about invading neighboring countries in it. In fact that's been something capitalist countries have been doing for most of history.

Nor does Adam smith. The point was that atheist can and do organize and come up with dangerous practices, venerated leaders, and are just as vulnerable to cultism as the religous are.

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Nor does Adam smith. The point was that atheist can and do organize and come up with dangerous practices, venerated leaders, and are just as vulnerable to cultism as the religous are.

A political religion is not atheism. Atheists not following the demands of a political religion are shot just as much as those who follow any other religion under the same regime.

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Nor does Adam smith. The point was that atheist can and do organize and come up with dangerous practices, venerated leaders, and are just as vulnerable to cultism as the religous are.

'

All Communists are atheists?

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The real point here, to me, is that atheism is a belief that gods do not exist.

As such, it is like a belief that leprachauns do not exist. In itself it leads no where.it has no ongoing consequences.

A believer in leprechauns, on the other hand, must construct other beliefs based on that belief eg. appearance, habits, habitat, nature, etc. One who does not believe in gods comes to a full stop at that point. It cannot be destructive in itself but neither can it be constructive. Belief in something offers, and indeeds creates, the potental for both creative and destructive further beliefs.

In a way, that i s why belief appeals to humans so much it leads somewhere. Non belief, while legitimate in itself, can lead nowhere without other constructs such as individual ethics and moralities, or constructs like social/secular humanism.

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Nor does Adam smith. The point was that atheist can and do organize and come up with dangerous practices, venerated leaders, and are just as vulnerable to cultism as the religous are.

Nobody said that an atheist can never engage in bad behaviour. That is a false premise. But at least atheists, by definition, reject the malevolent teachings of the various inhumane religions out there.

An atheist who thoroughly thinks out his position should obviously not fall for the pseudo-religion of communism either, but that is obviously not the case. Which shows that humans are not perfect. But to claim that atheists are "just as vulnerable" is simply not true.

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'

All Communists are atheists?

A question of definition, no? Since communist ideology expressly rejects what it calls "religion", they should be. However, since communism itself is a religion (even though a god-less one), I would argue that all communists are really theists in disguise.

Note that radical communist regimes have adopted all the trappings of radical theocratic regimes, with worshiped dead leaders, holy books, hoy sites, holy scriptures, rituals, and so on.

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A political religion is not atheism. Atheists not following the demands of a political religion are shot just as much as those who follow any other religion under the same regime.

Well said.

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A political religion is not atheism. Atheists not following the demands of a political religion are shot just as much as those who follow any other religion under the same regime.

But don't you see the double standard being applied? Spanish conquistadors were claiming lands in an imperialist fashion for the sake of god and country. Claiming Wealth in the name spreading Christianity, all with the Pope's blessings. China claims it all in the name of spreading stability through communism and atheism. I see no difference. Just difference in philosophy. Another contradiction among some atheists. They seem to want to be seperated from the religous so bad, that they ignore the fact, that atheists are just as vulnerable to human nature and problems as the religous are. It's really quit interesting to watch. If chinas government were Muslim instead of atheist it would be considered a theocracy, but oh no.... They are atheist, so it is just a political religion and has nothing to do with atheism.

Oh... So are Muslims & Christians in extreme political theocracies. Your example is the same everywhere.

Edited by Seeker79
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