Non-believers, why do you post here ?

[Daughter of the Nine Moons]

If I believe in ghosts or the psychic phenomenon but not the moon hoax CT or the or bigfoot does that make me a sceptic or a believer? What if my views have changed over the 9 years that I've been a member here?

You can't narrowly define people on this forum as sceptics or believers because most people's belief systems are more complex than that. UM is a forum for people of all belief systems to explore and discuss topics that interest them.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

.even though, if it were true......then how is it that we'd know about it? The whole point of a conspiracy is to keep it quiet and under wraps so no one ever knows and here we are talking about it. posting about it. Virtually every week there's some new "revelation" exposed about this or that secret group or dark society. If it's a secret then they need to do a better job of keeping it that way.

So, yeah, I'm interested in learning what makes people believe this stuff.

Allow me to open eyes for you and introduce you answer to that mystery. What makes people believe this stuff? Its called brain and one brain trait which we could call dot connector.

You totaly get wrong conspiracy theories. Let me ask you this question. What is alternative to conspiracy theory? Theory of spontaneous events. Was Jewish state spontaneous? Was WW2 spontaneous? Was Kristallnacht spontaneous? Was joining of Brazil in WW2 spontaneuos? Was malicious vaccination spontaneous? Was psychological experiments spontaneous? Only fool can think yes.

Do you make plans? I do. Everyone does. Even animals. So whats interests me is why people , like you, belive that people on higher powerfull position dont do plans.

Saying that do you even realize how naive that sound.

How do we know for that plans? Now thats whole another chapter. You must understand history, psychology in the first place. Then to understand whats propaganda and what isnt.

Edited February 9, 2013 by the L

[Gary Meadows]

This question has been asked and answered a 1000 times on this site. We are here because we have an interest in these topics just like you.

I can just as easily ask why believers post here and not on a forum for people who believe like you. If all you want is blind agreement why not post on a forum with only believers?

Do you really just want a bunch of people just agreeing with you all the time? "Yep that's a ghost" "Yeah I see it too" "OMG I had the same thing happen to me." That would get old real fast, and I would bet that after only a short while some people would start wishing that some of the non believers would come back.

Couldn't sum it up any better. Well said.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

You can't narrowly define people on this forum as sceptics or believers because most people's belief systems are more complex than that. UM is a forum for people of all belief systems to explore and discuss topics that interest them.

Couldnt agree more. But in every subfourm there is sort of klans of so called sceptics who even when you proove them different wont agree with you. Just because they see you as fringe. I think its psychological, sociological phenomenan. If you want even historical.

Edit: They become extreme radicals. And I dont think that any radicalism is good.

Edit2: On some of my claims which scientists argued about people reacted as they are fringe theory just because they never heard of it.

Its hard environment. But it must be this way. Its real. So let it be.

Edit3: Whats bizzare that so called sceptics above their heads to science. Which is good. But forgetting that scince theories can be utterly wrong. That science is self correcting. And that peer review dont prooves and disaporoves nothing. Yet we often see posts such as : Was that peer reviewed? Like that means something. Its hilaruious in a sense.

Edit4: Personally I adore this thread. As I said to Simbi. And I understand Simbi completly. When she wrote "non belivers" she didnt think on people with sceptic views she thought on people who dont believe into ANYTHING which doesnt agree with their view. And their view is shaped by family, history, background, education and environment. Phislosophical ideas they met in their life.

And everything that doesnt fit into their view must be surppressed. On that people simbi thought. And yes they dont have nothing with scepticism. Rather ignorance.

Edit5:

@Simbi

Be sure that there will be small number of so called sceptics in this thread.

Edited February 9, 2013 by the L

[keninsc]

Allow me to open eyes for you and introduce you answer to that mystery. What makes people believe this stuff? Its called brain and one brain trait which we could call dot connector.

You totaly get wrong conspiracy theories. Let me ask you this question. What is alternative to conspiracy theory? Theory of spontaneous events. Was Jewish state spontaneous? Was WW2 spontaneous? Was Kristallnacht spontaneous? Was joining of Brazil in WW2 spontaneuos? Was malicious vaccination spontaneous? Was psychological experiments spontaneous? Only fool can think yes.

Do you make plans? I do. Everyone does. Even animals. So whats interests me is why people , like you, believe that people on higher powerful position dont do plans.

Saying that do you even realize how naive that sound.

How do we know for that plans? Now thats whole another chapter. You must understand history, psychology in the first place. Then to understand whats propaganda and what isnt.

I'd have to disagree, it's not dot connection. You have to have a dot in order to connect to it and in too many cases the "dot" they want to connect to only exist if six or seven other thing have happened that are impossible or unlikely to have all happened at the same time. I recall pre-911, the Big deal was Mcvey and the Morrow building in St. Louis. Some so called expert said......and apparently no one ever checked to see if he was correct that the explosion could not possibly have created the amount of damage and in-particular taken out this one major pillar. All this according to his calculations. Mind you he never really shared his calculations, he just released his conclusion, so the ATF and the FBI had a pillar constructed exactly according to the blue print and structural engineer's specs and that was even checked against to "as built" drawings. You understand not all building get built exact as they are specified for a number of reasons, so they then have to show how it was actually built. Anyway they do all this and verify it with people who were still alive that actually worked on that building. Then they put together a bomb exactly as McVey described building it then had......the other guy.......I forget his name right this red hot minute, put it in a truck just like the one they used and set up all kinds of sensors and set the damned thing off. Not only was it exponentially more powerful than this idiot said it was but it was actually slightly more powerful than the ATF and FBI guys said it was, but well within the parameters they gave for the resultant explosion.

Yet, this guy is still out telling everyone they rigged the test and he still get like $10K plus expenses to do speaking engagements to talk on this subject. He's still heavily booked, just in case you want him to speak to your group.

Now, is this the final word? Certainly not, but why do people listen to him when the only thing he's proved is can.......as an "explosives expert", can't make what should be a simple calculation on a rather simple type of bomb? This person is simply making money off people who want to believe him even after he's been proved to have it wrong. So you see, there is no dot in this case unless the bomb was only as powerful as this person said it was, and when tested, it was way more powerful than he said it was, so there is no dot to connect.......but people just connect it because that's what they want to believe and nothing or no amount of testing is going to convince them otherwise.

Edited February 9, 2013 by keninsc

[Big Bad Voodoo]

So you see, there is no dot in this case unless the bomb was only as powerful as this person said it was, and when tested, it was way more powerful than he said it was, so there is no dot to connect....

Yes there is no dot in that case. But there are plenty where we already have a whole picture.

Also I would like that you answer other part of my previous post. Such as do you made plans? What is alternative to conspiracy?

In fact I think you dont understand what conspiracy is. It isnt that some reptilians, aliens find in some somkey room and create evil plans.

Conspiracy , simply, meand secret agenda. Secret plan.

So I dont get it which part dont you get.

Is it that powerfull elite do plans? Or that powerfull elite didnt introduce plan to you therefore plan doesnt exist? Meaning its secret to you.

Edit: Even when I give you example of prooven conspiracy you will say :Oh that was then. So please answer me when humans stop being ploters and become love and caring for eachothers?

Personally Im very sad that I didnt find time for UM conspiracy sub forum and UM paranormal sub forum.

Edited February 9, 2013 by the L

[lightly]

Everyone believes in something and disbelieves something else... i don't like one size fits all, or half, descriptors for People.

Some here seem to thrive on pointing out how WRONG others are... some seem to be more helpful.

It seems odd, and funny, to me that in ANCIENT MYSTERIES and ALTERNATIVE HISTORY ... Mysteries are so often dismissed with " but there is no evidence for that!" DUHHHHHHHH uhuh, that's why it's a Mystery? Also , there is often little or no evidence for ALTERNATIVE HISTORY .. it's just fun to think about and discuss? ... or should be.

As for conspiracy theories , there is no such thing as A CONSPIRACY BELIEVER... as if all conspiracies are either true or false. If you are a conspiracy UNBELIEVER you are being duped some of the time.

[Simbi Laveau]

Personally, I post here because I'm intrigued at the mental processes involved in the beliefs some people have about conspiracies. Don't get me wrong, I do have my own, so I'm no exception, but I don't believe JFK was a plot with dark and hidden intrigues, I don't believe 911 was the work of our own government. I don't believe flight 600 was shot down by a US missile. I don't think the Illuminati controls everything. I do believe there are other intelligent being in the universe, I simply don't believe they're coming to Earth to shove the ever present ice cold anal probe up old farmer Brown's bung hole. Chemtrails.....please.

My own personal feeling is that the truth of such things is simply too mundane and it's just so much cooler to believe all this sort of crap........even though, if it were true......then how is it that we'd know about it? The whole point of a conspiracy is to keep it quiet and under wraps so no one ever knows and here we are talking about it. posting about it. Virtually every week there's some new "revelation" exposed about this or that secret group or dark society. If it's a secret then they need to do a better job of keeping it that way.

So, yeah, I'm interested in learning what makes people believe this stuff.

Well, that and I can report what you guys know to my Masters.

Well you believe in things many do not ,but you stick to what you know and are interested in .

[Simbi Laveau]

Everyone believes in something and disbelieves something else... i don't like one size fits all, or half, descriptors for People.

Some here seem to thrive on pointing out how WRONG others are... some seem to be more helpful.

It seems odd, and funny, to me that in ANCIENT MYSTERIES and ALTERNATIVE HISTORY ... Mysteries are so often dismissed with " but there is no evidence for that!" DUHHHHHHHH uhuh, that's why it's a Mystery? Also , there is often little or no evidence for ALTERNATIVE HISTORY .. it's just fun to think about and discuss? ... or should be.

As for conspiracy theories , there is no such thing as A CONSPIRACY BELIEVER... as if all conspiracies are either true or false. If you are a conspiracy UNBELIEVER you are being duped some of the time.

Well see,I'm not a big UFO Bigfoot kind of fan ,but I don't go into those forum and tell everyone who is,they're wrong.

I happen to believe there are aliens ,and cryptids out there ,but the topics don't interest me as much as others do ,so I don't post in those forums very frequently .

As for conspiracies ,well ,some have been proven to be true in the past,so who knows .

[Rafterman]

I was just reading this thread , http://www.unexplain...howtopic=242661 ,and it makes one ponder ,WHY .

The title of this forum ,is UNEXPLAINED MYSTERIES ,and each sub forum has a very definative title as well.

Why,if you do not believe in anything unexplained ,occult ,mysterious or conspiracy ,why do any of the non believers post and come to this forum then .

Why don't you all post in a forum for people who think people who are believers , are just all delusional .

And I'm not trying to start flame wars ,but it begs the question ,are people who post in forum for things they do NOT believe in ,only posting to creat trouble ,belittle others ,or be a troll ....

If you're a non believer ,what do you get out of a forum for unexplained mysteries ?

What fun would it be just talking to people who agree with you?

[Space Commander Travis]

Here's some of the things said so far on this thread, about what might loosely be called debunkers (very probably including me..)

So are you folks aware of the Report function? Or are you simply not using it, and would you rather just generalise, handwave and avoid being specific?

Seriously - if YOU are being 'attacked', just report the post - see that little button at bottom left?

But if it's just your views or claims that are being challenged, then .. toughen up. If you can't defend those views, for example if a simple explanation is being posted for what you hoped was paranormal, or your viewpoint is being challenged by real references or statistics or science that contradicts you, or you have been taken in by a hoax.. isn't it better that the truth wins out?

Or is it more important that your claims are never challenged, your pride never hurt?

it's nothing to do with having one's pride hurt, it's the sheer supercilious superiority of some of those who are happy to define themselves as "Debunkers"; the "I am Rational and not swayed by old fashioned Superstition unlike you people". When people use the word "rational", that so often identifies them as feeling that they're superior to the superstitious or credulous masses. See: any of Richard Dawkins' Atheist evangelism. That does tenhd to irritate a lot of people.

[Simbi Laveau]

This isn't a forum of like minded people, at all, it's a forum of all types of people. The term 'unexplained mysteries' can't be narrowed down into two groups - believers and sceptics. Belief and scepticism has very little to do with why i'm here, i'm interested in people, how they draw their conclusions, how they'll filter out other views to hold onto their own...I find that very interesting. Plus, we live in a world where perception through taught behaviour influences how we judge and respond to things that might fall under the umbrella of 'Unexplained Mysteries', that impacts us all, and should interest us all.

I understand that this forum is older than most ,and there's a wide diversity of people. I'm friends here with many skeptics ,but they do not go out of their way,to immediately jump on others because of their beliefs.

If you can speak and debate ,you have one thing .If you just keep repeating SHOW PROOF,or SEE A DOCTOR ,to people who believe what they believe because of things other people cannot comprehend ,or its based in faith , it doesn't seem like these people post to debate anything. They post because just because they like to act superior to people they deem beneath, them mentally .

This has caused many constituents of this forum ,to go to other forums ,and there are many people here who do not post,for fear of ridicule. which I think is a shame . .

And there are forums ,that have a title,and that is what they discuss there.

Its to exchange ideas with people who are in your clique .Not argue as to why you believe what you do.

Im not saying a good debate isnt a healthy thing , but my observation is ,its not always a debate ,as so much a bashing party .

My observation would have to be ,some people get off on the bashing part .

I mean there's a reason I posted this in psychology

[Frank Merton]

Everyone is a believer and a non-believer -- depends on what it is. I find this sort of thing close to an attempt at censorship -- a sort of "this is my board you shouldn't be on it 'cause you don't believe."

[Frank Merton]

I don't enjoy bashing anyone; in fact I detest arguments. What I like is finding out things and I can't do that without asking questions, even if the questions sometimes have to have a sharp edge. As a general rule if I discern that someone doesn't want to have their beliefs questioned, I stop reading what they post and go to others.

[redhen]

Why,if you do not believe in anything unexplained ,occult ,mysterious or conspiracy ,why do any of the non believers post and come to this forum then .

It seems you have a narrow view of "unexplained". There are many unexplained things in science, history, philosophy, culture, etc.

Why don't you all post in a forum for people who think people who are believers , are just all delusional .

There are many unexplained things that are not simply a matter of belief.

And I'm not trying to start flame wars ,but it begs the question ,are people who post in forum for things they do NOT believe in ,only posting to creat trouble ,belittle others ,or be a troll ....

Well, for one, I find the philosophy and psychology of belief fascinating. Same with the science of knowledge, epistemology.

If you're a non believer ,what do you get out of a forum for unexplained mysteries ?

Just because you encounter something that's unexplained, doesn't mean you have to embrace a certain belief about it.

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

Douglas Adams

p.s. I find the UM to be very receptive of new ideas. If you really want your core beliefs challenged, head over to the home of the Internet Infidels.

Edited February 9, 2013 by redhen

[Frank Merton]

I must say that quote hits it -- we don't have to adopt a belief about things we don't understand. We can just say we don't know.

I wonder, however, if the human mind really will accept this -- we always seem to have to have a belief, and so many adopt really fanciful beliefs, to boot.

[Just Dave]

If you're a non believer ,what do you get out of a forum for unexplained mysteries ?

Well for start if you dont have a open mind contrary to just beliver, you wont get much plus you will mostly likely annoy others and probably flame too like so many cases already on the forums.. I flame too but that is only when it reaches boiling point,,,

UM is a great place for first hand news, maybe sometimes abit subjective, but still a news source with an option to comment on certain articles thus you get even more information than just news article alone. I came here as firm believer to " aliens visiting earth " by now i stopped believing that and created a new theory mroe earthlike,

i wouldnt do some if some people wouldnt oppose my wild ideas..

Current/past/future world events paranormal or not are all being recorded and researched ( as far as it goes )right here on Unexplained Mysteries! So if people believe or not everyone can learn alot in here.

Keep up the good work UM staff!

[orangepeaceful79]

An internet search for Bigfoot information is what first led me to UM. That was January a year ago. I'd grown up loving paranormal things, cryptids especially. My interest had flagged for a decade or so and was re-kindled by viewing "Findind Bigfoot" for the first time during their New Year's day marathon. I thought the show was kinda stupid, and very slanted in its depictions, but my interest was burning bright in Bigfoot again nevertheless.

What I found after posting in the Crypto forum for a week or so is that all the things I had held to so firmly in my belief of cryptid creatures was in fact, not evidence at all. One member in particular was instrumental in this area of growth for me. Its was as if my beliefs in cryptids and then later on for all paranormal things for which there has yet to be conclusive, irrefutable evidence produced for just evaporated like mist in the morning sun.

I have realized a great deal of my true nature as a result of this. I am very empirically driven, I have difficulty believing in things that are not objectively defined. Everyone takes comfort in certain things - I take comfort in what can be proven, what is true fact that applies to us all.

Through all this, however - my interest in the paranormal has remained strong. Its fascinating stuff, although for me now it is fascinating because of the psychology behind the beliefs of others rather than my own believing. I went through a phase where I'd just rail on any believer on most any topic and because of people like Simbi, Seeker79, and a few others I've dialed that back a bit for a more respectful approach.

My approach to most of these topics these days is that things like Ghosts, Cryptids, and other paranormal topics are unlikely based on the lack of any evidence that is solid and objected. Notice that I didn't say impossible. Impossible is an incredibly large word, much like always or never and should be used sparingly and only when there is no other alternative.

I come here because there is a part of me that would love to be proven wrong someday. I'd be thrilled if there were real live cryptids living in the world, or if ghosts were real. That'd be really cool. But I've got to be PROVEN wrong. I won't just accept what you, or you, or you tell me you think you saw. Not because I think any of you are liars, but because I know how fallible I am, and I'm no worse or better than anyone else. The potential for mistakes when dealing with humans is much more likely than the existence of paranormals in my opinion.

I like that UM has a mix of people. Some of them are irritating, but sometimes even the most irritating person has something prescient to say. So with that I'll stop this essay.

See you in the threads!

[Frank Merton]

Unless someone has a theory that the reason cryptobiological creatures aren't found is supernatural in some way, I would say this, along with some of the other topics floating about on these boards, such as the moon deniers and the most of the extraterrestrial visitor enthusiasts, are not classifiable as believers in the paranormal.

There views may or may not be scientific, but the try to fit them in the normal world.

[JesseCuster]

Why don't you all post in a forum for people who think people who are believers , are just all delusional .

Because we are not a hive mind that all think that 'believers' are 'just all delusional'.

And I'm not trying to start flame wars ,but it begs the question ,are people who post in forum for things they do NOT believe in ,only posting to creat trouble ,belittle others ,or be a troll ....

In general, no.

If you're a non believer ,what do you get out of a forum for unexplained mysteries ?

Several reasons.

1. I believe I can contribute to topics like ghost photography and Mars anamolies where there is an unholy amount misinformation being touted as scientific fact and where self-declared experts post utter nonsense and declare it as expert opinion. I recall one member who declared himself a "photography expert" who declared that orbs were emphatically not caused by dust because dust particles 'explode' when light hits them and are thus invisible in photographs. That kind of BS needs to be corrected because there are those who would swallow it up as the viewpoint of an expert.

2. Life would be very boring indeed if you only discussed topics with people who agreed with you. Don't you agree? Forums (political and religious forums are notorious for this) where dissenting opinion is not welcome are regularly full of rabid lunatics.

3. Just because I generally don't agree with the topics on these forums (hauntings, cryptids, the 'true' location of Atlantis, ET visitations, etc.) doesn't mean I'm not interested in reading and discussing these things.

[TSS]

I understand that this forum is older than most ,and there's a wide diversity of people. I'm friends here with many skeptics ,but they do not go out of their way,to immediately jump on others because of their beliefs.

If you can speak and debate ,you have one thing .If you just keep repeating SHOW PROOF,or SEE A DOCTOR ,to people who believe what they believe because of things other people cannot comprehend ,or its based in faith , it doesn't seem like these people post to debate anything. They post because just because they like to act superior to people they deem beneath, them mentally .

This has caused many constituents of this forum ,to go to other forums ,and there are many people here who do not post,for fear of ridicule. which I think is a shame . .

And there are forums ,that have a title,and that is what they discuss there.

Its to exchange ideas with people who are in your clique .Not argue as to why you believe what you do.

Im not saying a good debate isnt a healthy thing , but my observation is ,its not always a debate ,as so much a bashing party .

My observation would have to be ,some people get off on the bashing part .

I mean there's a reason I posted this in psychology

I don't doubt there are those that just ridicule from the outset, i've bumped into a few myself, but that just falls under what I said when I said "how they'll filter out other views to hold onto their own". There are forums (as you said) that deal with a particular mindset or belief, but as this isn't one of those then you need those that counter any claim made. I'd also have to point out that I have bumped into just as many believers who refuse to act reasonably in a debate - for example, if a claim is made regarding something that affects us all, say medicine, or the environment for example, and someone with a great deal of knowledge posts on that topic countering the claim, or debunking the claim, then it's in the interest of the topic and all those reading it to see that information.

The psychology of dismissing just for the sake of it is the same as the psychology of refusing to debate with sceptical views, in so much as it's protecting a mindset to the point of stubbornness.

Another side that i've seen is that I think occasionally people post personal beliefs that they hold dear, and expect only like minded people to post on it, whereas in reality they would have been better off putting it in a blog if they wanted to avoid any resistance to their thoughts.

[SpiritWriter]

Here's some of the things said so far on this thread, about what might loosely be called debunkers (very probably including me..)

So are you folks aware of the Report function? Or are you simply not using it, and would you rather just generalise, handwave and avoid being specific?

Seriously - if YOU are being 'attacked', just report the post - see that little button at bottom left?

But if it's just your views or claims that are being challenged, then .. toughen up. If you can't defend those views, for example if a simple explanation is being posted for what you hoped was paranormal, or your viewpoint is being challenged by real references or statistics or science that contradicts you, or you have been taken in by a hoax.. isn't it better that the truth wins out?

Or is it more important that your claims are never challenged, your pride never hurt?

So does this mean you think people are being enlightened when a person doesn't believe what they have reported? That by sharing thier experience and made to feel like a fool with mental problems helps them finally understand it was all in thier head and it was impossible because... hmm I dont know, they dont have photos? Are you saying you think skeptics stick around for this, like this is thier higher calling or job or something? I ask because the question is "why do you hang around?" Thats not to say I want you to leave but I think this thread is about understanding what the skeptics interest is.. not why we should accept the skeptics view point. I personally think skeptics should start listening a little more closely, see how many stories are similar if not almost exactly the same and start admitting some of this phenomenon is true, especially when it is obvious there is no other explanation. Once you see that some of these things have no other explanation, the ones you think have a better explanation might make more sense.

Edit: I think its the skeptics who are holding on to thier pride...

Edited February 9, 2013 by SpiritWriter

[Beany]

My experience is that the tighter I hold onto to something dear, the quicker it slips away. Anyhoo, the skeptics provide a good balance, I think, at least the ones who aren't mired in their own dogma. You know, there be dogmas in them there waters! What's really cool is when the skeptics get beyond their own dogma, because then they have some interesting things to say that add to the conversation. I was just wondering this morning what the skeptics could contribute about the existence of spooks or the paranormal, if they were able to hypothesize about the existence of such things. Those "what if" questions can be fascinating. Here's a couple of definitions of hypothesis:

• A supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.
  
• A proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth.
  

[Bonecrusher]

It's a bit complicated for me..

I don't what the heck I would call myself.

I believe in Bigfoot and The Loch Ness Monster.

I don't believe in ghosts or any type of communication from the grave.

I do believe in UFO's but you can count the cases I'm convinced about on my fingers.

I don't believe in alien abduction despite my dream with grey kittens floating me down the stairs.

I don't believe in the stories alien contactees spin or any cults that revolve around UFO sightings.

I don't believe in the ancient alien hypothnesis.

I do believe that some corn circles and a spot of animal mutilation are done by aliens.

And like 99.9999% of the people here I believe in intelligent life elsewhere.

Tbh I would call myself a sceptical believer who's hanging on for that scrap of definitive proof.

But that's subject to change depending on the mystery of the week.

If I was a true skeptic I would dismiss everything right out of hand.

It's that kind of disruption that leads to negativity and flame wars.

Most of my time is spent in off- topic catching flies.

I wouldn't have even registered never mind posted if I wasn't interested in the unknown.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Medium Brown

[Sakari]

This question has been asked and answered a 1000 times on this site. We are here because we have an interest in these topics just like you.

I can just as easily ask why believers post here and not on a forum for people who believe like you. If all you want is blind agreement why not post on a forum with only believers?

Do you really just want a bunch of people just agreeing with you all the time? "Yep that's a ghost" "Yeah I see it too" "OMG I had the same thing happen to me." That would get old real fast, and I would bet that after only a short while some people would start wishing that some of the non believers would come back.

Although, my participation and interest are near gone now. ( This may make some people happy ) Not sure if it is age, wisdom from age, or just tired of redundant conversations, and defensive arguments.

Nothing new in the paranormal world. Just the same old, different day / year.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Sakari