Göbekli Tepe-10 000 BC

[The Puzzler]

Evidence of a meteorite storm 12,000 years ago an explanation for the burial of Gobleki Tepe of why the people may have gone underground... the cause of the great floods... the coming ice age ? ... http://www.dailymail...vilisation.html

An interesting article cs, thanks. Robert Schoch says the most likely explanation, rather than meteors, is a huge solar burst, which had a similar heat impact on the Earth and bought the cataclysmic changes.

He also says 4 of the 'enclosures' align to Orion, Taurus and the Pleiades but also that the builders at Gobelki Tepe realigned them over time, noting the change in precession.

[Harsh86_Patel]

What on earth is an agriculturist and why pray tell would they do this?

There are two reasons why i feel this way about Gobekli Tepe-

1.Recent findings push the date of the indus valley civilization well beyond 7000 B.C. .Their patron God was Pashupatinath (a deity said to have been later transformed into Shiva).

He was the god of the Hunt and Animals in general.This makes me feel there may be a link between the people who built Gobekli Tepe and the Ancients of Indus valley.Gobekli tepe could have been a sort of shrine or temple to the great god of the hunt. Distance between Indus Valley civilization and Gobekli Tepe by a land route is approx 2500 miles.

Other then IVC there are very few candidates for a cultured people who could have somewhat been contemporary with the Gobekli Tepe Monuments in terms of Age.

2.Shift from hunting to agriculture and blockage of the travelling route could have been the reason for the back filling of the revered site.

[TheSearcher]

There are two reasons why i feel this way about Gobekli Tepe-

1.Recent findings push the date of the indus valley civilization well beyond 7000 B.C. .Their patron God was Pashupatinath (a deity said to have been later transformed into Shiva).

He was the god of the Hunt and Animals in general.This makes me feel there may be a link between the people who built Gobekli Tepe and the Ancients of Indus valley.Gobekli tepe could have been a sort of shrine or temple to the great god of the hunt. Distance between Indus Valley civilization and Gobekli Tepe by a land route is approx 2500 miles.

Other then IVC there are very few candidates for a cultured people who could have somewhat been contemporary with the Gobekli Tepe Monuments in terms of Age.

2.Shift from hunting to agriculture and blockage of the travelling route could have been the reason for the back filling of the revered site.

Could you source the recent finding about the indus Valley culture? I hadn't heard about this before, other then of fringe authors and they usually overshoot it by 10.000 years at least.

But your premise will only work, if you can establish a link between the two and if the indus valley civilization did indeed start earlier than 7000 B.C. So far it's only a "maybe" in my opinion.

[cormac mac airt]

Could you source the recent finding about the indus Valley culture? I hadn't heard about this before, other then of fringe authors and they usually overshoot it by 10.000 years at least.

But your premise will only work, if you can establish a link between the two and if the indus valley civilization did indeed start earlier than 7000 B.C. So far it's only a "maybe" in my opinion.

“On the basis of radio-metric dates from Bhirrana (Haryana), the cultural remains of the pre-early Harappan horizon go back to 7380 BC to 6201 BC.”

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Indus-Valley-2-000-years-older-than-thought/Article1-954601.aspx

Searcher, the writer had to take great liberties as to what constitutes a "civilization" to have made such a claim. The bold portion above was the beginning of what was to become the IVC and not the age of the civilization as a whole. The claim to pushing back the date of civilization here is about as meaningless as claiming the date of Nabta Playa means that the Egytian Civilization dates to c.9000 BC.

cormac

[Big Bad Voodoo]

...means that the Egytian Civilization dates to c.9000 BC.

cormac

Some Egyptologists claim that AE civilization is even older. And that is legacy not development.

[cormac mac airt]

Some Egyptologists claim that AE civilization is even older. And that is legacy not development.

And which Egyptologists would that be and how much older, since AE civilization as such only starts with the development of writing and unification around 3100/3200 BC?

BTW, a "precursor" to a civilization is not the same as the civilization itself.

cormac

[Big Bad Voodoo]

John Anthony West. As he said, quote:

"Egyptian civilization was not a 'development', it was a legacy."

His said 36 000 BC while Schoch belives around 6000/7000 BC.

[Abramelin]

Evidence of a meteorite storm 12,000 years ago an explanation for the burial of Gobleki Tepe of why the people may have gone underground... the cause of the great floods... the coming ice age ? ... http://www.dailymail...vilisation.html

I think you mean a possible impact around 12,900 BP. It's a disputed theory based on finds that are also being heavily discussed, but true or not, it is still almost 2000 years before the Göbekli Tepe structure was buried.

+++

EDIT:

Even your article says:

‘The presence of a thick charcoal layer in the ancient village in Syria indicates a major fire associated with the melt-glass and impact spherules 12,900 years ago,’ he continued.

.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

John Anthony West. As he said, quote:

"Egyptian civilization was not a 'development', it was a legacy."

His said 36 000 BC while Schoch belives around 6000/7000 BC.

And where and when did he receive his Doctorate?

cormac

[Big Bad Voodoo]

And where and when did he receive his Doctorate?

cormac

He didnt? As I remember when I read Serpent in the sky I think that there I read that he was Egyptologist. Also right now Im on movie 2 of 8 serial Magical Egypt. I dont know did you wtach it but J.A. West has some interesting views and points.

[cormac mac airt]

He didnt? As I remember when I read Serpent in the sky I think that there I read that he was Egyptologist. Also right now Im on movie 2 of 8 serial Magical Egypt. I dont know did you wtach it but J.A. West has some interesting views and points.

You're going to have to do better than that L, since even on his own website he doesn't claim to be an Egyptologist.

http://www.jawest.com/

cormac

[Big Bad Voodoo]

But that doesnt mean he cant have insights and profound ideas.

[cormac mac airt]

But that doesnt mean he cant have insights and profound ideas.

It does mean however that he buffaloed you into believing he was a qualified Egyptologist and therefore knew what he was talking about from that perspective. Doesn't feel good being lied to, does it?

cormac

[Big Bad Voodoo]

It does mean however that he buffaloed you into believing he was a qualified Egyptologist and therefore knew what he was talking about from that perspective. Doesn't feel good being lied to, does it?

cormac

Ofcousre it doesnt. But his perspective never was as usual Egyptologist. And on some things he has point. Even if he is plumber. I like some of his ideas and insights. But maybe Im under impression of two hours listening of West. And his book. I listen to him in alive when he have lecture of cca hour. I will wait until I see all 8 parts and I will explore his raised questions then I will have final judgement on J.A.West.

Edited February 11, 2013 by the L

[TheSearcher]

http://www.hindustan...le1-954601.aspx

Searcher, the writer had to take great liberties as to what constitutes a "civilization" to have made such a claim. The bold portion above was the beginning of what was to become the IVC and not the age of the civilization as a whole. The claim to pushing back the date of civilization here is about as meaningless as claiming the date of Nabta Playa means that the Egytian Civilization dates to c.9000 BC.

cormac

Thanks Cormac. The article does not seem too fleshed out and I cannot find an international conference of harrapan archaeology anywhere. I do feel this is not a good sign for the authenticity of the claim.

[Harsh86_Patel]

Could you source the recent finding about the indus Valley culture? I hadn't heard about this before, other then of fringe authors and they usually overshoot it by 10.000 years at least.

But your premise will only work, if you can establish a link between the two and if the indus valley civilization did indeed start earlier than 7000 B.C. So far it's only a "maybe" in my opinion.

Recent archaeological meet in India has announced that based on new archaeological finds the IVC was a very large spread and much older then previously thought....wikipedia gives a good amount of Info though the article is not complete. Also the L had started a thread on the same and had posted a few good articles if you want to go through them. Mind you the 7000 B.C. date is for the Indus valley 'Civilization'....individual settlements and cities would have gone further back in time. The geographical spread of the IVC had also been previously underestimated..new finds are suggesting a much bigger spread.

The link under is a well rounded article.

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Origins

Edited February 12, 2013 by Harsh86_Patel

[The_Spartan]

Mehrgarh, which is now considered to be a precussor to the IVC is dated to 7000 BCE to 5500BCE. Edited February 12, 2013 by The_Spartan

[Harsh86_Patel]

The dates are of Mehrgarh when it was an already established city etc....the time the civilization started the journey is yet to be accounted for.

[Harsh86_Patel]

Thanks Cormac. The article does not seem too fleshed out and I cannot find an international conference of harrapan archaeology anywhere. I do feel this is not a good sign for the authenticity of the claim.

The article is small and not specific as it was published in a popular newspaper.

[TheSearcher]

Recent archaeological meet in India has announced that based on new archaeological finds the IVC was a very large spread and much older then previously thought....wikipedia gives a good amount of Info though the article is not complete. Also the L had started a thread on the same and had posted a few good articles if you want to go through them. Mind you the 7000 B.C. date is for the Indus valley 'Civilization'....individual settlements and cities would have gone further back in time. The geographical spread of the IVC had also been previously underestimated..new finds are suggesting a much bigger spread.

The link under is a well rounded article.

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Origins

Your link shows Mehrgarh to have been settled between 7,000 and 6,500 BC. The city in the Gulf of Khambhat is dated to 7,500 BC. The Harappan Civilization is dated to between 7000BC and 1900BC.

I do tend to discard the religious texts bit, as those are assumptions only, dixit the article itself. And it tends to go science fiction when it talks about Vimana etc.

I find the conclusion a tad too biased to be honest.

The article is small and not specific as it was published in a popular newspaper.

which is basically what I said earlier.......

[Harsh86_Patel]

Your link shows Mehrgarh to have been settled between 7,000 and 6,500 BC. The city in the Gulf of Khambhat is dated to 7,500 BC. The Harappan Civilization is dated to between 7000BC and 1900BC.

I do tend to discard the religious texts bit, as those are assumptions only, dixit the article itself. And it tends to go science fiction when it talks about Vimana etc.

I find the conclusion a tad too biased to be honest.

which is basically what I said earlier.......

Ya the later part of the link i posted does take a different tangent but the first half is pretty informative and reasonable.Even i am a not a big fan of religious ramblings....but sadly some of these reasonable theories often don't find space in mainstream articles.

[docyabut2]

I tend to agree with Andis Kaulins, Göbekli Tepe is not dated right.The site could be of two merging cultures. I think if they dig around more of Göbekli Tepe ,they may find Talayotic houses dated 3000 to 2000 bc.

http://lexiline.blogspot.com/2009/08/gobekli-tepe-and-nabta-playa-dates.html

[docyabut2]

The inhabitants are assumed to have been hunters and gatherers who nevertheless lived in villages for at least part of the year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%c3%b6bekli_Tepe

Do you really think that hunters and gatherers just came there off and on to build these sites and then buried them? To me there had to be some living around there to accomplish such a great feat.

[TheSearcher]

Ya the later part of the link i posted does take a different tangent but the first half is pretty informative and reasonable.Even i am a not a big fan of religious ramblings....but sadly some of these reasonable theories often don't find space in mainstream articles.

Fair enough mate, I understand.

But even if the 7000BCdate is correct, it's still only the early beginnings of the civilization, so it couldn't have spread that far out. that kind of spreading would take a far more developed one.

[Everdred]

I tend to agree with Andis Kaulins, Göbekli Tepe is not dated right.The site could be of two merging cultures. I think if they dig around more of Göbekli Tepe ,they may find Talayotic houses dated 3000 to 2000 bc.

http://lexiline.blog...laya-dates.html

His argument for dating doesn't seem to address the artifact assemblages associated with the site that place it right in the early Neolithic.

And why do you think they'll find Balearic culture in Mesopotamia?