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State of the Union


Corp

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WTF is the "pre-school deal"?

Has Obama gone over board?

From the White House fact sheet:

"Supporting all 50 states to provide access to preschool for all low-and moderate-income children: The President is proposing to work with Congress to provide all low- and moderate-income 4-year-old children with high-quality preschool, while also expanding these programs to reach hundreds of thousands of additional middle class children, and incentivizing full-day kindergarten policies, so that all children enter kindergarten prepared for academic success."

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Talk about an infringement on liberty... these players are going right for the throat.... Odrama, their front man of course.

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"Enter kindergarten prepared for academic success"?? Get the socialization out of the way a year early on the government dole, so the kids can get right to the hard work of drawing As and Bs, practicing talking to others, and playing with blocks. Successfully. Even education-welfare is approaching the cradle. So much for Clinton's welfare reform. His new buddy Obama just brought them all back and then some. Some of the best educated kids I know were home schooled. But not being able to afford nursery school, I presume because the parent(s) isn't/aren't working, is also too important not to slap on the thighs of America.

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That's the problem with American liberalism -- they see so many injustices and so many things wrong in the world, and they want to solve all of them, even though no country is rich enough to be able to do any such thing, and the effort to do so would impoverish the country.

Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.

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That's the problem with American liberalism -- they see so many injustices and so many things wrong in the world, and they want to solve all of them, even though no country is rich enough to be able to do any such thing, and the effort to do so would impoverish the country.

Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.

Those eloquently penned problems aside, people deserve to help themselves despite their problems. Government provides the easiest way out of helping yourself, and people, like electricity and fluid, will take the path of least resistance. There's a huge correlation between greater resistance and greater prosperity and conversely a huge correlation between laziness and no prosperity. Welfare destroys the American dream more than preserves it. People do the greatest of things when they have no other choice. Interestingly enough, sometimes jobs are created out of those great efforts and it lifts many others out of poverty.

"Time and money spent in helping men do more for themselves is far better than mere giving." ~ Henry Ford

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Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.

your talking a fairly small minority of conservatives. The more rural farming types do think people should solve there own problems because thats they we been living for generations. You are who you are. Thats not to say we think all social programs are crap. Just ones that Obummer proposes atm.

Edited by AsteroidX
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What I notice is people only complaining about one aspect of what the government does but never takes in to consideration why it was implemented in the first place. Like welfare.

I'm only against it in it's current form(Life long free money is a tad bit retarded).

Hell I'd run it more like the military(With more about civilian needs then military) for those who need government help. Training, Food, Shelter(Barracks that are shared why because when you have to share living conditions it prompts most people to change) in a controlled environment where they have to show effort to get help from there they can find back to the real world.(None of this giving them basically free housing, free money, food for pretty much all of their lives) Those who have the ability and drive would thrive those who can't would be screwed. Can't do that though that infringes on some false illusion of liberty.

Welfare in general isn't wrong but our current implementation is crap, and basically rewards people for screwing up. Don't just go such and such is bad, put something else on the table that still fulfills what is needed but does it in a way that's effective. We may find one that works better and can actually push it through the system and force it down the government's gullet.

Christ he looks like Bush in that picture.

Surprisingly I agree with a lot of things he wants to happen just not his plans to get it done.

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According to Captain Kirk, the greatest three words there are are "can I help".

For the Conservatives (on the whole) welfare is a hand to get you back on your feet, dust you off and send you on your wway - think the Biblical Good Samaratian, who dresses the blokes wounds and gives him a roof and a ed until he heals.

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When I hear the word "invest" I think that is what one does with money that is extra, after debts, that can be used to earn more money. Apparently Mr Obama and his ilk have a different definition. *reaches for antacid*

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Talk about an infringement on liberty... these players are going right for the throat.... Odrama, their front man of course.

Indoctrination or education-reform. The world will just have to wait and see.

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Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.

Wether it's their fault or wether they deserve help or not is besides the point and circumstantial. You've made a cold generalization. We shouldn't be forced to help a failing system that more and more people everyday look to as a way of life rather that a lift to get them on their feet.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-
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That's the problem with American liberalism -- they see so many injustices and so many things wrong in the world, and they want to solve all of them, even though no country is rich enough to be able to do any such thing, and the effort to do so would impoverish the country.

Well, that's the problem right there. Government wasn't meant to solve the world's problems. The only means that government has is stealing other people's money. Why not let solutions originate from among the people and let them use their money. Government was meant to only facilitate what the people do, not control it. If these Liberals want to solve the world's problems then let them spend their own money organizing a movement. Run it up the flagpole and see who salutes.

Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.

That is incorrect. True, it is usually the person's own damn fault but the Conservative would rather see it not happen again which means confronting the original problem and not ignoring it so that it happens again. But the solution is usually human programming to improve their habits. But it's not the place of government to perform social programming. It is up to the individual.

This means teaching values in school once again, challenging the child to succeed and learn how to deal with the real world. Any form of welfare forces dependency on the government and liberal indoctrination is no different. Social promotion gives the child no life skills other than to depend on the government. But Man was not made to be dependent on someone else. $-hit happens and people thrive on solving their own problems. Building their own lives (yes they build it themselves). It's not that these people don't deserve any help; they deserve the right to fix it themselves (catch the subtlety). And when they do need something, it should be a helping hand, not a handout.

The focus of Liberals is not on the people, it is on themselves. This is Munchausen by Proxy (MBPS). Most Liberals are Narcissistic and this President has been diagnosed with it. That means NVD which is a close cousin to MBPS. One really doesn't need to worry about the clinical/technical aspects. One just needs to understand that people that have these tend to gravitation to positions of authority. This is one of the motivating factors that the Founding Fathers created the Constitution, so that these personalities could not usurp the power invested in government. But that is what has happened. As Reagan so eloquently put, "Government is not the solution, Government is the problem".

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Kind of surprise a thread hasn't been made yet.

Anyway nothing's on tv so decided to watch it and must say Obama seems to be really taking it to the GOP. Though some of the stuff he's bringing out doesn't sound that bad. Doubt much of it will actually happen but still some good ideas being put out there.

So let the debate begin. I have a feeling that most of our members will have nothing but positive things to say. :P;)

Corp, I'm sorry but I feel like I have to ask: how much do you really like Obama? Because from your post it sounds like you decided to watch his state of the union only because nothing else was on...just wondering...

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The only means that government has is stealing other people's money. W

Government taxes. It is not theft. That implies taking for no benefit. And yes I could spend years describing the benefits. How can you expect anyone to read your epistles further than that.

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I don't know you, so I'm not sure if this post is satirical or sarcastic (which I hope it is), but if your serious it has to be the most ridiculous post I've ever read. It's as stupid as saying " If you agree with Obama's policies you can only be two things....black racist, a democrat or both."

I know Michelle a bit, and I'm almost sure she was being sarcastic (sorry haven't read all the posts yet this has probably already been addressed).

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She's cool PLXiii. I'll vouch for her.

Yep it has already been addressed. That's what I get for posting before I'm caught up on the posts.

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I know Michelle a bit, and I'm almost sure she was being sarcastic (sorry haven't read all the posts yet this has probably already been addressed).

Yep it has already been addressed. That's what I get for posting before I'm caught up on the posts.

I always love a knight in shining armore...thank you. :blush:

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According to Captain Kirk, the greatest three words there are are "can I help".

For the Conservatives (on the whole) welfare is a hand to get you back on your feet, dust you off and send you on your wway - think the Biblical Good Samaratian, who dresses the blokes wounds and gives him a roof and a ed until he heals.

That's great, that's what my mom did, after my dad was institutionalized, she went on welfare, but just long enough to go back to school and become a teacher. (I guess as a teacher you could say she was still on the taxpayer's money but at least she was working!)

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That's the problem with American liberalism -- they see so many injustices and so many things wrong in the world, and they want to solve all of them, even though no country is rich enough to be able to do any such thing, and the effort to do so would impoverish the country.

Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.

"One of the most pervasive political visions of our time is the vision of liberals as compassionate and conservatives as less caring" --Thomas Sowell

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I always love a knight in shining armore...thank you. :blush:

I feel like I kinda know you from your posts Michelle (and the occasional PM lol) and I greatly respect your point of view. May God bless you. I'm sorry I said "I'm almost sure Michelle was being sarcastic" I should have said, "I KNOW Michelle was being sarcastic".

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Government taxes. It is not theft. That implies taking for no benefit. And yes I could spend years describing the benefits. How can you expect anyone to read your epistles further than that.

So the inheritance tax (aka the death tax) is not stealing? I'll bet many would disagree with you...the benefits? Sure some taxes probably are beneficial, but taxes which support a welfare system which creates generation after generation dependent on welfare? People who are strong and young and healthy as a bull, but don't work because they choose not to? A Congress filled with people who make public service a career (I don't think being a senator or congressman was originally meant to be that), vote themselves raises, and who knows what all benefits, and make themselves exempt from the onerous laws they impose on others? These are the benefits that would take years to describe? Please don't get me wrong, not all tax money is wasted, maybe coincidentally...that would make an interesting study, how many tax dollars are wasted.

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I feel like I kinda know you from your posts Michelle (and the occasional PM lol) and I greatly respect your point of view. May God bless you. I'm sorry I said "I'm almost sure Michelle was being sarcastic" I should have said, "I KNOW Michelle was being sarcastic".

That means a great deal to me...thank you.

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"One of the most pervasive political visions of our time is the vision of liberals as compassionate and conservatives as less caring" --Thomas Sowell

Shouldn't that be "one of the most pervasive political illusions of our time, etc."?

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That means a great deal to me...thank you.

You're welcome...

edited to remove smiling smiley because it did not convey the warmth and respect I wished to convey, therefore seemed a bit ludicrous.

Edited by Gummug
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Government taxes. It is not theft.

Yes, government taxes is theft. It’s just that the people have just put up with it as an annoyance or a “light and transient cause”.

That implies taking for no benefit.

Not exactly. It does provide benefit. That is why the people put up with it, but that doesn’t give the government free reign to take more and more.

And yes I could spend years describing the benefits.

Why do you think that because it is a *benefit* that that is what people want? What people want is to be left alone, especially from the government. All the people want from the government is to provide for defense, law enforcement, justice, and infrastructure. That can be done with minimal taxes.

How can you expect anyone to read your epistles further than that.

I personally don’t care. You either understand or you don’t. I find it quite easy to tell between the two.

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