CIA Tortured & Sodomized Terror Suspect

[Bama13]

Prove that to be true,

If a person does not know what they are being tortured for will say anything and if not how woudl one know. It does not work

Easy enough. When I was a child I hid a candy bar from my older brother. He held me down and punched my arm until I told him where the candy bar was. Torture worked.

You can not get reliable info from someone that does not have that info. Duh. But you can get reliable info from someone that does have the info. Torture is not a fishing expediation. If you know someone posses the info you need then tortue can work, and often does.

Many of ya'll have no idea how torture works, but it does indeed work.

[+OverSword]

Easy enough. When I was a child I hid a candy bar from my older brother. He held me down and punched my arm until I told him where the candy bar was. Torture worked.

You can not get reliable info from someone that does not have that info. Duh. But you can get reliable info from someone that does have the info. Torture is not a fishing expediation. If you know someone posses the info you need then tortue can work, and often does.

Many of ya'll have no idea how torture works, but it does indeed work.

Or you can have someone with no scruples (a prerequisite for perfoming torture) looking for an excuse to take action, tortures someone while feeding them what they want to hear back. If you truly are for torture, then may you one day be force to sit on a sharp object.

[Bama13]

Or you can have someone with no scruples (a prerequisite for perfoming torture) looking for an excuse to take action, tortures someone while feeding them what they want to hear back. If you truly are for torture, then may you one day be force to sit on a sharp object.

Never said I was in favor of torture. Just stating that it can indeed work, when done properly. Properly being the key word.

No scruples isn't a prerequisite for performing torture. You can claim anything you want but that doesn't make it true. Example: Having no scruples is a prerequisite for posting on this board.

[Babe Ruth]

Never said I was in favor of torture. Just stating that it can indeed work, when done properly. Properly being the key word.

No scruples isn't a prerequisite for performing torture. You can claim anything you want but that doesn't make it true. Example: Having no scruples is a prerequisite for posting on this board.

I can understand intellectual detachment on any given subject, indeed that can be an asset.

But when one is intellectually detached as others are assaulted, well.....it seems one's moral values come into question.

[+OverSword]

Never said I was in favor of torture. Just stating that it can indeed work, when done properly. Properly being the key word.

No scruples isn't a prerequisite for performing torture. You can claim anything you want but that doesn't make it true. Example: Having no scruples is a prerequisite for posting on this board.

good come back

[Knight Of Shadows]

not surprised .. they done the same and worst in abu graib prison

[Bama13]

I can understand intellectual detachment on any given subject, indeed that can be an asset.

But when one is intellectually detached as others are assaulted, well.....it seems one's moral values come into question.

My point is that torture can indeed be effective. That is the only point I am making. Anything else is an assumption on your part.

[Babe Ruth]

Bama

You are a reasonable man and that is a reasonable point, as limited as you are trying to make it. In certain situations, I'm sure you are right about that.

However I would edit the statement and use the word "threat" instead of "torture." Sure, in a hypothetical situation, threatening a person might easily force that person to reveal some knowledge he might possess.

However I see a difference between threatening somebody and torturing them. As I'm sure you know, there are several men on the record, at least one FBI type, who contend that torture is counterproductive, and frequently brings bad information.

And I think that some sort of moral position must be taken. Somebody, somewhere, must stand for what's right, and condemn what is wrong.

[Bama13]

Bama

You are a reasonable man and that is a reasonable point, as limited as you are trying to make it. In certain situations, I'm sure you are right about that.

However I would edit the statement and use the word "threat" instead of "torture." Sure, in a hypothetical situation, threatening a person might easily force that person to reveal some knowledge he might possess.

However I see a difference between threatening somebody and torturing them. As I'm sure you know, there are several men on the record, at least one FBI type, who contend that torture is counterproductive, and frequently brings bad information.

And I think that some sort of moral position must be taken. Somebody, somewhere, must stand for what's right, and condemn what is wrong.

I agree. Torture can certainly produce negative results, but it can also produce valuable info. I'm am simply pointing this out to those that say torture never works. Not being an expert on the subject I don't know the percentage of good to bad info generated by torture, but to say that it never works is incorrect.

While I would like to think that I would always be against torturing someone, I'm not sure this is true. If someone I cared about was kidnapped and I knew a suspect in custody had knowledge of where they were being held I'm not sure, honestly, if I would be against torturing them to find my family member/friend.

[+OverSword]

snip

Edited March 15, 2013 by OverSword

[Babe Ruth]

My guess is that you watch alot of 24.

[lightly]

torture is the ideal means for getting people to say what YOU want them to? Do you have links to Al Qaeiouda? }}}}} torture tortue torture {{{{{{ ... " YES!* "

Write that down corporal.

Edited March 16, 2013 by lightly

[Bama13]

torture is the ideal means for getting people to say what YOU want them to? Do you have links to Al Qaeiouda? }}}}} torture tortue torture {{{{{{ ... " YES!* "

Write that down corporal.

Yes that would very stupid. If that is how you think torture is done then I have nothing to say to you except advise you to look into how torture is actually done.

[Babe Ruth]

Jeez, learn the finer points of torture.

I hope we don't hear about the benefits of rape or pedophilia.

[+OverSword]

Jeez, learn the finer points of torture.

I hope we don't hear about the benefits of rape or pedophilia.

Hello!!!! LOL!!! very nice babe.

Bama13.....I give up.

[Bama13]

Hello!!!! LOL!!! very nice babe.

Bama13.....I give up.

Ha. Tortured you into quitting and didn't even have to lay a hand on you.

[Bama13]

Jeez, learn the finer points of torture.

I hope we don't hear about the benefits of rape or pedophilia.

Just learn how torture can be an effective way to get info.

I have said nothing to deserve the last remark. Sorry if telling the truth about the potential effectiveness of torture offended you.

[Knight Of Shadows]

Just learn how torture can be an effective way to get info.

I have said nothing to deserve the last remark. Sorry if telling the truth about the potential effectiveness of torture offended you.

and still you can get people to say anything under torture .. truth or false

isn't that the reason so many people confessed having pact with the devil in the dark ages ?

and the reason they confessed practicing witchcraft ?

weren't they tortured to give confession and they did ?

[Bama13]

and still you can get people to say anything under torture .. truth or false

isn't that the reason so many people confessed having pact with the devil in the dark ages ?

and the reason they confessed practicing witchcraft ?

weren't they tortured to give confession and they did ?

Again I say that if you are torturing someone to get them to confess to a crime that it is idiotic. Of course they will confess.

But if you know there is a event/action/attack coming up in the next month or so, and you have a suspect that knows when and where the event/action/attack is going to happen then you can get the info from him. You can't say "tell me the attack is going to happen in DC on April the 3rd" that would be stupid since you wouldn't being getting any actual info. But you can get him to reveal the time and place using torture.

My older brother once hit me in the arm until I told him where I had hidden the last candy bar. I told him when my arm got really sore. He didn't say "tell me the candy bar is in the cabinet behind the plates" because he didn't know where the candy bar was, he just knew there was one left. Since my parents wouldn't have hidden it I must have. Since he knew there was a candy bar, and knew I had hidden it, the torture worked. Now if I hadn't known where it was it wouldn't have worked. But in the right circuminstances it certainly can work.

If you don't think torture works then steal a couple of million dollars from the mob and hide it. Then tell the mob guys that you took their money and hid it. See if they don't get you to tell them where you hid it. I bet they do.

I am done on this topic. If ya'll want to believe that torture never works, even though I have proven that it can, then rest secure in your ignorance.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Bama13

[Knight Of Shadows]

Again I say that if you are torturing someone to get them to confess to a crime that it is idiotic. Of course they will confess.

But if you know there is a event/action/attack coming up in the next month or so, and you have a suspect that knows when and where the event/action/attack is going to happen then you can get the info from him. You can't say "tell me the attack is going to happen in DC on April the 3rd" that would be stupid since you wouldn't being getting any actual info. But you can get him to reveal the time and place using torture.

My older brother once hit me in the arm until I told him where I had hidden the last candy bar. I told him when my arm got really sore. He didn't say "tell me the candy bar is in the cabinet behind the plates" because he didn't know where the candy bar was, he just knew there was one left. Since my parents wouldn't have hidden it I must have. Since he knew there was a candy bar, and knew I had hidden it, the torture worked. Now if I hadn't known where it was it wouldn't have worked. But in the right circuminstances it certainly can work.

If you don't think torture works then steal a couple of million dollars from the mob and hide it. Then tell the mob guys that you took their money and hid it. See if they don't get you to tell them where you hid it. I bet they do.

I am done on this topic. If ya'll want to believe that torture never works, even though I have proven that it can, then rest secure in your ignorance.

it's true to an extend .. but what if that guy really don't know anything and you got the wrong guy you've tortured

doesn't that give that guy the right to sue your ass in court and put you behind bars ?

or would you simply say " sorry we mistaken you for some one else " ?

it's double bladed weapon and many innocent people fall victims of unjust tortured based on your analogy

it's like .. 10 people have connection with terrorist and some operation going down

let's torture them all and in fact none of them might know anything

no one can actually tell people's thought .. and no one can ' know " what other people's know

unless we're going to jump this topic into supernature field

and the only way torture is " allowed " in my opinion when there is clear physical evidence that person involved

otherwise you'd be the oppressor .. not the good guy

edit : and define to us the moral response you have on " sodomizing " a suspect as form of torturing

which can be easily fall under " rape " crime

Edited March 19, 2013 by Knight Of Shadows

[Bama13]

it's true to an extend .. but what if that guy really don't know anything and you got the wrong guy you've tortured

doesn't that give that guy the right to sue your ass in court and put you behind bars ?

or would you simply say " sorry we mistaken you for some one else " ?

it's double bladed weapon and many innocent people fall victims of unjust tortured based on your analogy

it's like .. 10 people have connection with terrorist and some operation going down

let's torture them all and in fact none of them might know anything

no one can actually tell people's thought .. and no one can ' know " what other people's know

unless we're going to jump this topic into supernature field

and the only way torture is " allowed " in my opinion when there is clear physical evidence that person involved

otherwise you'd be the oppressor .. not the good guy

edit : and define to us the moral response you have on " sodomizing " a suspect as form of torturing

which can be easily fall under " rape " crime

Once again I am not condoning torture, just responding to those who say it never works.

My morals are not at issue here, just the facts. Fact is torture can be effective.

[Professor Buzzkill]

Once again I am not condoning torture, just responding to those who say it never works.

My morals are not at issue here, just the facts. Fact is torture can be effective.

I am not condoning sodomy, but pointing out that it works.

No one has refused to tell me what i need to know after they see my 8oz blood sausague heading for their rectum.

Sodomy is fun. Fact. It is also effective.

[Babe Ruth]

Bama

As the Professor and Knight have suggested, you are on the downhill side of a very slippery slope.

In a nutshell, you are telling us that assault can be OK, if done by a person properly trained. Rape or sodomy can be used instead.

Methinks you might have watched one too many episodes of 24...

[Knight Of Shadows]

Once again I am not condoning torture, just responding to those who say it never works.

My morals are not at issue here, just the facts. Fact is torture can be effective.

torturing thousands of people to get lucky break with some one who actually knows something while rest were innocent victims

of unjustifed torture and only suspects .. and as they say the suspect is innocent till proven otherwise

so no even on the effective level .. it is not effective it's a failure of a technique

let alone the moral side effects cause by that

not only it wrong innocent people with slight chance of good results

it also make people go bad for example :

am not terrorist .. but if i got captured and tortured without doing anything and sodomized by cia .. i WILL become a terrorist

Edited March 19, 2013 by Knight Of Shadows

[+OverSword]

Once again I am not condoning torture, just responding to those who say it never works.

My morals are not at issue here, just the facts. Fact is torture can be effective.

Nobody said it doesn't work bama. We said it's unreliable. It is unreliable on so many levels, as well as simply immoral it should never be done by people who believe they are fighting for right. If you would sacrifice your honor for mere victory then you deserve whatever messed up thing your enemy does to you.