Stealth bombers sent to S. Korea

[stevewinn]

lets hope things cool down. N.Korea are no push over and would be fighting on their turf. if it all 'kicks off' i wonder if the US will get back their Ship - USS Pueblo?

[Gunn]

And that's what having nuclear weapons is really all about. Being the boy with the biggest toys so if anything were to occur, all the President has to do is push a button and wipe out a nation of innocent people. That's not even what I'd call a war, that's what I call cowardice. Hiroshima springs to mind.

The bombing of Japan in 1945 by the U.S. was necessary, the leaders of Japan at that time were ultimate suicidal fanatics and were not going to surrender until just about every Japanese citizen and soldier in Japan was dead. It was the right choice under those circumstances and for other reasons as well, but what was unnecessary was dropping two bombs instead of just the one and not giving the Japanese leaders enough time to contemplate their own surrender. The Japanese would of eventually come around to the U.S. terms of surrender, but the U.S. leaders at that time obviously got a little trigger happy and impatient; while over the years never admitting to that one mistake about the whole operation.

Regardless, you have to look at the cost of life one way versus the cost of life in another way. That is what the U.S. leaders back then were looking at. If they did not drop a bomb to end the war quickly, which only came to about 250,000 Japanese deaths by the way, then untold millions of both American and Japanese deaths would of been the result in the end, by the time the war was finally over with Japan and they had surrendered.

There was nothing "cowardice" about saving more lives than what would be taken, when it came to a situation like that.

A sacrifice of a few 100,000 for the greater good of the many millions. Think about it!

[F3SS]

And that's what having nuclear weapons is really all about. Being the boy with the biggest toys so if anything were to occur, all the President has to do is push a button and wipe out a nation of innocent people. That's not even what I'd call a war, that's what I call cowardice. Hiroshima springs to mind.

Dude you'd be speaking German right now if it wasn't for US and our bombs.

[acidhead]

Dude you'd be speaking German right now if it wasn't for US and our bombs.

Just curious...

Wasn't the War already won in Europe before America dropped the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Just curious...

Wasn't the War already won in Europe before America dropped the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

I think he's speaking in more general terms, stuff like Lend-Lease and all that.

[Yamato]

No, not 60 years ago. Currently. Its not that they're just armed at the border... NK has nukes on the border, and have threatened to use their forces on Seoul and the US.

And I disagree with your statement that SK is 10x more powerful than NK. What do you use to justify this statement?

Well I'm glad it's not just that they're armed on the border which is all you said earlier since they've been armed at the border for 60 years.

Pakistan has nukes on the border with India. Oh Ms. Pattmore the cakes are burning and the Hollandaise sauce isn't ready yet.

What do I use to justify my statement that didn't even go far enough stating that SK is 10x more powerful? Their economy for one. Factor in the US is sworn to defend the peninsula in the case of attack they're about 10,000 times more powerful. This is just war mongering propaganda, it's the same dirty nonsense that we got served with under George W. Bush. I cannot believe that people still fall for this crap anymore.

[+and-then]

Kim Jong-un is definitely not playing with a full deck and we all know what people like that are capable of doing. If he would shut his mouth and stop threatening to attack the South and us with nuclear weapons this wouldn't be happening.

My father-in-law is 86 and remembers Korea well and is quite worried. I'm not really worried because I just cannot imagine this very pragmatic regime being suicidal - unless of course they have taken the measure of Obama and expect him to fold under the pressure and comply with their demands. He has made a strong statement by sending the B-2s and now should just ignore chubby while the tantrum continues. China has one of the strongest economies and bottom lines in the world. NK is their client state and THEY should be feeding and helping them. If China is willing to throw away all their gains of the last couple of decades to defend a pariah that only serves as an irritant to their "enemies" in the west then I'd really be amazed. Fat boy would be conveniently pushed down some stairs if I were in control in China. As an aside - the reason I make fun of Kimmy is that his weight is an OBSCENITY in a country where babies are like skeletons.

[Frank Merton]

At the moment the Communist countries of Asia have better relations, both diplmatic and economic, with the South than with the North. Kinda ironic but they have tended to go where the money is.

I think it would be wise, though, if fighting should happen and the inevitable rout of the North takes place, to try to let China intervene there and maintain a Communist or at least neutral entity in the north as a buffer. Just get rid of the present dynasty and core cadre.

The problem is that this would be after major damage to South Korea and major casualties, and Koreans may want to get revenge.

[Yamato]

At the moment the Communist countries of Asia have better relations, both diplmatic and economic, with the South than with the North. Kinda ironic but they have tended to go where the money is.

I think it would be wise, though, if fighting should happen and the inevitable rout of the North takes place, to try to let China intervene there and maintain a Communist or at least neutral entity in the north as a buffer. Just get rid of the present dynasty and core cadre.

The problem is that this would be after major damage to South Korea and major casualties, and Koreans may want to get revenge.

Are you kidding? China has a terrible human rights record, their regime should go just as quickly. They murder their own people for non-violent crimes for heavens sake.

But we don't care about that. Why? Because China has money. It isn't ironic at all, that's what all this nonsense is about. Money.

Obama the peace prize winner strikes again. Democrips are all dumb-shut-up about it, as usual. Disgraceful.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Yamato

[Mr.United_Nations]

South Korea says it will be ready encase NK does attack according to Sky news this morning.

[Frank Merton]

China has about as "terrible" a human right record as does most countries, including the United States. It's all a matter of what you want to emphasize. The rate at which the US jails people for drug offenses is human rights too. Far more execustions per capita too.

The important point is that the Chinese are not suffering mass privation because of rigid doctrine the way they are in North Korea.

[Mr.United_Nations]

China has about as "terrible" a human right record as does most countries, including the United States. It's all a matter of what you want to emphasize. The rate at which the US jails people for drug offenses is human rights too. Far more execustions per capita too.

The important point is that the Chinese are not suffering mass privation because of rigid doctrine the way they are in North Korea.

So does low wages

[Thanato]

Dude you'd be speaking German right now if it wasn't for US and our bombs.

No he wouldn't Germany was no threat to mainland Europe, this was decided in 1940-41 before the US entered the War. Other than dropping V2's once and awhile. England was fairly safe.

Also Russian MIlitary forced destroyed the majority of the Crack German Units which is why the western front was so esily won in comparison. Yes I understand it wasn't easily won, but when you compare it to the Eastern Front or the Italian Front We kind of Steamrolled the German Defenses there.

Just curious...

Wasn't the War already won in Europe before America dropped the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

Yes, by a few months, but interesting fact, the Bombs where originally inteded to be dropped on German Cities.

~Thanato

[Thanato]

Are you kidding? China has a terrible human rights record, their regime should go just as quickly. They murder their own people for non-violent crimes for heavens sake.

But we don't care about that. Why? Because China has money. It isn't ironic at all, that's what all this nonsense is about. Money.

Obama the peace prize winner strikes again. Democrips are all dumb-shut-up about it, as usual. Disgraceful.

Actually the Human Rights record in China is a concern for western governments, it's just well. Yes Money, but also China has a giant Military.

[stevewinn]

I dont think the world has been more dangerous than it is today. the likelihood of war is never faraway when the world suffers economic problems. i really hope North Korea are just saber rattling. if not then it could trigger global events - a domino affect. North Korea might get the backing of Russia & China. the USA defence sec as said the USA will stand with South Korea.

if it was to all kick off we might see China move on Japan their relations haven't been the best over the disputed archipelagos in the south China sea. and coming not long after Chinese war ships locked onto Japanese Naval ships. something China denied but in the last few days as admitted they did.

then we have Israel who announced at the UN last year - Iran will cross the red line in regard to their nuclear program in early spring this year. its no secret that Israel could strike Iran.

any conflict would drag the UK into the mix. we could then see a move in Latin America on the Falkland Islands. and before you know it the world has gone tits up. and the financial situation in the world will be the least of our problems.

[stevewinn]

Actually the Human Rights record in China is a concern for western governments, it's just well. Yes Money, but also China has a giant Military.

[ExpandMyMind]

Umm, doesn't telling the World where the 'stealth' bombers are going, kinda defeat the purpose?

[ExpandMyMind]

Actually the Human Rights record in China is a concern for western governments, it's just well. Yes Money, but also China has a giant Military.

The U.S. and British governments do not care about the citizens of other countries; not even in the slightest. They only "care" when it serves a political or militaristic purpose. Often, in fact - and in reality more often than not throughout recent history - we actually support brutal regimes, and even facilitate their actions. I could rhyme off around 10 or 15 examples from the top of my head if you need me to?

I cannot speak for other Western countries though, such as Canada. It may be entirely possible that the Canadian government does actually care about the hardships of the peoples suffering under brutal regimes - though their unyielding support of Israel seems to paint a different picture.

I would, however, agree with your analysis when it comes to Scandinavian countries.

Edited March 30, 2013 by ExpandMyMind

[Frank Merton]

To say that the US and British governments don't care about others is just too much. Of course countries engage in realpolitic; often its the best of many unpleasant approaches, and nobody is perfect, but for the most part the concern is real.

Umm, doesn't telling the World where the 'stealth' bombers are going, kinda defeat the purpose?

I kinda figure that was the idea; let them know where they are and then when they can't see them there they get a strong message.

[ExpandMyMind]

To say that the US and British governments don't care about others is just too much. Of course countries engage in realpolitic; often its the best of many unpleasant approaches, and nobody is perfect, but for the most part the concern is real.

Completely unsupported by documented history.

[Mr.United_Nations]

China will put a blockade on North Korea, a trade one too.

[Rafterman]

South Korea might have Technology and about 2+ million troops but the North out numbers them. In a conventional War numbers still play a big role on the ground. You can have the best machine gun in the world but if you run out of bullets you got scrap metal.

~Thanato

It's actually closer to four million counting reserves. And yes, weapons are useless without ammunition, but I think that will be more of a problem with the North than with the South. The South can be resupplied quite readily, while the North cannot.

I also agree that historically, the manpower numbers made a difference, but like we saw in Iraq, air superiority is the critical piece on the modern battlefield. And as we also learned, outdated weaponry - even with a numerical advantage - just doesn't hold up to modern weapons. And in the case of NK, the vast majority of their armor is even older than what Iraq was using.

[Stellar]

Well I'm glad it's not just that they're armed on the border which is all you said earlier since they've been armed at the border for 60 years.

Pakistan has nukes on the border with India. Oh Ms. Pattmore the cakes are burning and the Hollandaise sauce isn't ready yet.

What do I use to justify my statement that didn't even go far enough stating that SK is 10x more powerful? Their economy for one. Factor in the US is sworn to defend the peninsula in the case of attack they're about 10,000 times more powerful. This is just war mongering propaganda, it's the same dirty nonsense that we got served with under George W. Bush. I cannot believe that people still fall for this crap anymore.

bull****. 10 000 times more powerful? Uninformed opinion as far as I'm concerned. The NK could still devastate the south in a war, and if its 'ok' for the North to have large armed forces along the border, then by virtue of fairness, it is also ok for the south to do so aswell --- regardless of whether they are stronger or weaker than the north.

[Rafterman]

A bullet will kill you whether its fired from a state of the art rifle or an AK47. Artillery will still blow you up and the Navy wont play a big role other than providing air power.

How'd that work out for the Iraqis?

The biggest problem the US and SK forces will have will be choosing targets. NK's most advanced fighter entered service in 1983 and they only have 35 of them. Allied forces would achieve air superiority within hours of the start of hostilities. I would hazard a guess that 80-85% of the NK air force would be wiped out on the ground. You have to remember that the South and the US know how to fight this war and have been practicing and refining tactics for more than half a century.

So bring the human wave by the hundreds of thousands, and the 1950s era tanks, and blow the bugles - I'll stick with modern weaponry, cruise missiles, and B52 Arc Light strikes any day.

[Frank Merton]

The South Koreans seem unpurturbed; just making sure there are no misunderstandings what will happen if the North does something stupid. I've seen no analysis from any respected sort that thinks the North could win such a war. The only reason the South restrains itself is that it is a democracry and doesn't want the casualties.

A few messages back there was the odd assertion that the States and Britain have never had any concern for others, to which I commented that that went too far, which was responded to by the rather unbelievable assertion that what I said was unsupported by history. I suppose arguing that would be an entirely different thread, one so stupid and irresponsible that I would not participate in it. I just want it clear that I have no truck with such excessive and outrageous and unsupported assertions.

I have to think that maybe somehow I have misunderstood it all.