"Forced" Religion.

[Michelle]

I do hope to hear those perspectives as well... and understand the intent, but I do see how history affects current perceptions, this adds to the overall "feeling" that the religion is forced. We cannot deny that. This can be similar to America was founded on Slavery and we were having a discussion on how African Americans are still being oppressed but they shouldnt bring up slavery. It does account for much. All deep concepts are rooted in something, understanding that helps us understand the whole and the present condition.

I can deny it. I am an Atheist in the Bible Belt and don't look to what people that are long dead did way back when. I see how I'm treated in the here and now. I'm not offended when I see a church on every corner, Christmas, Easter, when someone tries to hand me a pamphlet or when someone expects everyone to hold hands and say a prayer before a meal. If it's their tradition to do so I simply sit quietly and wait for them to finish. I don't feel like they are pushing anything on me.

I've never been rejected because I'm a non believer. I don't tell them what they believe is wrong and I am given the same consideration. If a stranger does get a little too pushy I politely tell them that I think religion is a very personal thing and prefer not to talk about it. People don't randomly ask what church we belong to, but will occasionally ask us to attend a special occasion service that their children are participating in. Sometimes we go and sometimes we don't.

I went to church camp when I was young because my friends went. It didn't turn me into a Christian. It was very enjoyable and I can tolerate having a ten minute service every morning before breakfast and another longer one before dinner. Nothing forced there either. As a matter of fact, religion wasn't mentioned at all outside of the chapel and it was where I learned a lot of dirty jokes.

I like to think you get back what you put out in this world and I can honestly say most people are fairly considerate. As a matter of fact, I've been chastised by more Atheists or agnostics on UM because they don't feel like I am aggressive enough and don't stand up for all Atheists rights. Well, my rights have never been in danger and if someone wants to say a prayer in a public place there is no skin off my nose.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Michelle

[IamsSon]

I will respond to this because this is in response to me and Michelle's interaction, I think your being sarcastic but I'm not sure... I am not trying to denigrate Christianity at all, I just dont want us to be blind to certain facts. The truth will set us free.

Blessings

Given the large number of threads in UM that discuss the atrocities that have been carried out under the umbrella of Christianity, derailing this thread to rehash those discussions seems utterly unnecessary.

[Michelle]

What's wrong with you Michelle!? How could you possibly expect a serious dicussion about religion when this presents such a wonderful opportunity to denigrate Christianity?

Ya know, we all need to learn from the past, but we don't have to live in it.

[+OverSword]

Given the large number of threads in UM that discuss the atrocities that have been carried out under the umbrella of Christianity, derailing this thread to rehash those discussions seems utterly unnecessary.

IamsSon, I have gone back and read all of SpiritWriters comments on this thread and she not once mentions atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christianity. This she never once bashes Christianity at all as a matter of fact.

[Michelle]

IamsSon, I have gone back and read all of SpiritWriters comments on this thread and she not once mentions atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christianity. This she never once bashes Christianity at all as a matter of fact.

No she didn't. She responded to my request to stay on topic, which started the whole conversation.

[Star of the Sea]

I can honestly say that during the twenty years I have been on this planet I have never had a religion forced on me even when I was at school. Where I'm from religion isn't that big a deal. Its more where your from that matters rather than what religion you follow.

Same here. That's exactly how it is in the UK.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

you quoted the crusades my original post was op relavant, to not give a damn about alexis when talking about the first crusade is redonk. you make it seem as if the egyptians hand were clean of blood, which is ridiculas. no one can carve an empire with out shedding blood and the pharohs thought they were descended from the gods. there fore religion represents Egyptians as the leaders made the decisions.

i dont think this but in the way you paint christians, i can paint new age horus worshippers. once again i dnt think this, it is terrible logic

What religious crusades did the Ancient Egyptians engage in? name any crusade by them. Carving out empires is nothing to do with religion, it is about power, money, living space. As for "new age", well, there are modern day "Atenists" who make fools of themselves, there those who follow Asatru who I respect. As for painting "Horus worshippers" as Christians, well, that may be a paradox, or not, or something else, or nothing at all, or........

Edited April 4, 2013 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[Grandpa Greenman]

Three words, vacation Bible camp.

[Grandpa Greenman]

Anyone who lives in a country with a state religion is having a religion forsed on him when he has to live under religious law.

[Michelle]

Three words, vacation Bible camp.

I went to those for six years...please enlighten me to the facts. Excuse me, except for that one that was shut down when exposed and run out of town.

You can't judge them all by one, just like you can't judge all Christians by Westboro Baptist Church.

Personally, I don't want to be associated with the Freedom From Religion Foundation and think they are ridiculous.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Michelle

[+and-then]

Excuse me, but isn't this thread supposed to be about personal experiences?

Absolutely. Sorry I did not make this more clear. I do not dispute the sins of the past by those who took the name but not the yolk. I was interested to know if anyone here felt Christianity had been forced on them and, if so, how that was done.

[+Sherapy]

I can deny it. I am an Atheist in the Bible Belt and don't look to what people that are long dead did way back when. I see how I'm treated in the here and now. I'm not offended when I see a church on every corner, Christmas, Easter, when someone tries to hand me a pamphlet or when someone expects everyone to hold hands and say a prayer before a meal. If it's their tradition to do so I simply sit quietly and wait for them to finish. I don't feel like they are pushing anything on me.

I've never been rejected because I'm a non believer. I don't tell them what they believe is wrong and I am given the same consideration. If a stranger does get a little too pushy I politely tell them that I think religion is a very personal thing and prefer not to talk about it. People don't randomly ask what church we belong to, but will occasionally ask us to attend a special occasion service that their children are participating in. Sometimes we go and sometimes we don't.

I went to church camp when I was young because my friends went. It didn't turn me into a Christian. It was very enjoyable and I can tolerate having a ten minute service every morning before breakfast and another longer one before dinner. Nothing forced there either. As a matter of fact, religion wasn't mentioned at all outside of the chapel and it was where I learned a lot of dirty jokes.

I like to think you get back what you put out in this world and I can honestly say most people are fairly considerate. As a matter of fact, I've been chastised by more Atheists or agnostics on UM because they don't feel like I am aggressive enough and don't stand up for all Atheists rights. Well, my rights have never been in danger and if someone wants to say a prayer in a public place there is no skin off my nose.

@ Michelle,

I am glad you have had such awesome experiences and I have too(there are tolerant Christian's) but I have also had some crappy ones. I have been ostracized and shunned because I chose a different path, the irony is this intolerance comes from my own parents and they do not know what I am. My own parents have issue with me not only over my lack of religion, but what political affiliation I am. They do not embrace my children because they are not Catholic. I have had some people say some horrible things to me not only in real life but on UM because I was Atheist. I was removed from Catholic school because I asked too many questions and the mother superior felt I was not a good "fit" for the school. So does intolerance in religion exist, you bet it does!

So how do I deal with my parents, I accept them and I treat them with respect even knowing they have major issues with me. I state my truth simply and lovingly, I am certainly not a door mat when it comes to my parents when it is needed and I look at this situation as an opportunity to practice tolerance and compassion. And, I am optimistic one day my parents will see past their own limitations.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Sherapy

[Michelle]

Absolutely. Sorry I did not make this more clear. I do not dispute the sins of the past by those who took the name but not the yolk. I was interested to know if anyone here felt Christianity had been forced on them and, if so, how that was done.

You were perfectly clear. I've heard so many say they have been abused by Christians, especially in the South, but when it comes down to it there is a problem with relatives and not strangers or the average Christian. I've known people for twenty years or more and religion has never come up. It just isn't something that we talk about when getting together and having a good time. Honestly, it's difficult for me to imagine anyone being ostracized for their religion any more than it would happen for them being gay. But, we do have a very diverse set of friends.

[Michelle]

@ Michelle,

I am glad you have had such awesome experiences and I have too(there are tolerant Christian's) but I have also had some crappy ones. I have been ostracized and shunned because I chose a different path, the irony is this intolerance comes from my own parents and they do not know what I am. My own parents have issue with me not only over my lack of religion, but what political affiliation I am. They do not embrace my children because they are not Catholic. I have had some people say some horrible things to me not only in real life but on UM because I was Atheist. I was removed from Catholic school because I asked too many questions and the mother superior felt I was not a good "fit" for the school. So does intolerance in religion exist, you bet it does!

So how do I deal with my parents, I accept them and I treat them with respect even knowing they have major issues with me. I state my truth simply and lovingly, I am certainly not a door mat when it comes to my parents when it is needed and I look at this situation as an opportunity to practice tolerance and compassion. And, I am optimistic one day my parents will see past their own limitations.

I'm sorry for your experience, but I want to thank you for the "empathy" you have shown me. You have a lot of people fooled, but not me. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree does it?

Edited April 4, 2013 by Michelle

[Mikko-kun]

There was this one older lady who stopped me when I was walking down the road, minding my business. She went on about some christian stuff, and blocked my way when I tried to politely go past her after acknowledging her and declining politely. That's real stupid, because it only deepened the ravine between me and god I actually want to close in on, and made my day worse. There's two other times, not exactly forcings but I dont know.. this one time my friend's dad gave me a thing to read about a sect of christians, I found it good reading. He tried not to be pushy and was nice, but was still pushy. And this other time, my best friend maybe, she's asked me a time or two to reconsider taking in god. I appreciate that, especially because she can be very diplomatic, sincere and blunt about it, not adding anything or being pushy. She's probably the only person who made me think about taking in god but my problem is, I have a hard time putting blind faith to that extent, especially if I have to do it through bible. Maybe if I can do it my way, sort of, and not saying bible would be bad per say, but people use it in so ludicrous and fanatistic ways, especially the priests... "take this and this as physical truth instead of a (semi-)metaphora of truth". I think they dont have it all right, the priests and fanatics I've encountered.

And there was this one guy on the back of the bus, talked to himself in a loud voice in a full buss about his own revelations, seemed to have a scetchy mindset. I think he was some fool who thinks a minor enlightening and seeing what you want to see is the same as being archangel Michael, who knows. I just think that if he actually was an archangel('s reincarnation), he'd have more situational sense than that. Same with the old lady. Deranged would be a better word, and if they had been touched by god, they obviously didn't have the mentality to handle it that well.

[Ever Learning]

What religious crusades did the Ancient Egyptians engage in? name any crusade by them. Carving out empires is nothing to do with religion, it is about power, money, living space. As for "new age", well, there are modern day "Atenists" who make fools of themselves, there those who follow Asatru who I respect. As for painting "Horus worshippers" as Christians, well, that may be a paradox, or not, or something else, or nothing at all, or........

so your saying none of the princes who led armies to the holy land didnt do it to gain power, money or living space, by apealing to history you can see the crusaders became very rich even through their christian vows demanded poverty. they obviously didnt take their christianity seriously and cant be considered true christians.

ive told you the motives that started the holy war and you choose to ignore them.

the pharohs claimed to be descended from the god rah (fact), but you say they didnt have relgious wars. if the pope has a war be descended from the apostles it is a holy war. where is the logic, if you are to answer any of my questions answer these one about the difference between the pope and a pharoh.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

im sure there are good christians in america

That's cute, actually. I'm from America, and I'm loving; however, according to the Bible Mark 10:18, "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good--except God alone.'" True, I'm also aware of the destruction of the soul; however, I reverted to Christianity because of Jesus' "unconditional love" presence.

Peace to you, Armchair Educated.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

so your saying none of the princes who led armies to the holy land didnt do it to gain power, money or living space, by apealing to history you can see the crusaders became very rich even through their christian vows demanded poverty. they obviously didnt take their christianity seriously and cant be considered true christians.

ive told you the motives that started the holy war and you choose to ignore them.

the pharohs claimed to be descended from the god rah (fact), but you say they didnt have relgious wars. if the pope has a war be descended from the apostles it is a holy war. where is the logic, if you are to answer any of my questions answer these one about the difference between the pope and a pharoh.

I absolutely do not understand what you are saying, I do not know what point you are trying to make other than some excuses for past Christian bad behaviour. You suggest that Crusaders were not even Christian, well, and I thought I lived in a fantasy world

[+and-then]

I absolutely do not understand what you are saying, I do not know what point you are trying to make other than some excuses for past Christian bad behaviour. You suggest that Crusaders were not even Christian, well, and I thought I lived in a fantasy world

In the most real sense they WEREN'T Christ followers. They were men who used the religion as an excuse to do the evil that was in their own hearts and imaginations. The very obvious disconnect I see from some of the responses here is that of basic definition. I can call myself fireman but if I do not help put out a fire then I am no fireman. The "policeman" who ignores crime? The "doctor" who ignores suffering? Or worst of all the "Christian" who fails to love. All these explain the problem of the modern perception of Christianity being fake or hypocritical. But I also see a tendency for some who ridicule Christians for hypocrisy to blandly excuse it in others. This is not a diatribe against you AP - nothing personal about your statements - I'm just making one of my own.

[IamsSon]

IamsSon, I have gone back and read all of SpiritWriters comments on this thread and she not once mentions atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christianity. This she never once bashes Christianity at all as a matter of fact.

I was addressing SpiritWriter's comment about needing to know the history of attrocities done throughout history supposedly as a Christian mandate. She was defending Atentutankh-pasheri's posts which are derailing the thread from a discussion of personal experiences to a rehashing of those attrocities.

As a Christian who has never assaulted anyone in the street or in their home or workplace I'm interested to know what those who believe they were assaulted experienced.

Edited April 5, 2013 by IamsSon

[Just Dave]

I will just say they dont need to force it on anyone anymore... they did that in history with immense force and bloodshed..and since they did a good job at that it is now steady in place and still working but it has lost much of original influence, less people tend to believe in something more powerfull than us.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

All I see here are Christians tying themselves in knots. To say that crusaders and such were not real Christians is ridiculous beyond words. Such sensitivity here, eh......

So, personal experience, because of course I must not "de-rail" this thread. Nobody ever told me to be a Christian, that would have been absurd. Yet in this brave new world a certain conformity is needed by some people. I do not conform to these people, I will not, ever. So, on the basis of their Christian beliefs, I am accused of satanism, because to these people, anything that is not Christian must be the work of satan. My life has been disrupted because of this. Suffficient? eh,

[IamsSon]

All I see here are Christians tying themselves in knots. To say that crusaders and such were not real Christians is ridiculous beyond words. Such sensitivity here, eh......

So, personal experience, because of course I must not "de-rail" this thread. Nobody ever told me to be a Christian, that would have been absurd. Yet in this brave new world a certain conformity is needed by some people. I do not conform to these people, I will not, ever. So, on the basis of their Christian beliefs, I am accused of satanism, because to these people, anything that is not Christian must be the work of satan. My life has been disrupted because of this. Suffficient? eh,

How has your life been disrupted? If I understand what you're saying, you do not give any credence to Christianity, so why would Christian beliefs affect you simply by existing?

I know Islamic religion states I am an infidel, but as long as no Muslim is actively targeting me for death simply because I am an infidel in his eyes, what Muslims do or don't believe has zero actual impact on my day to day life.

Edited April 5, 2013 by IamsSon

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

How has your life been disrupted? If I understand what you're saying, you do not give any credence to Christianity, so why would Christian beliefs affect you simply by existing?

How my life is disrupted is personal. Your quote about why would Christian beliefs effecting me simply because Christians exist, is disengenous and twists what I have said. I live my life in peace and do not impose any beliefs on anybody. It is these Christians who deliberately impose themselves on ME. This clear?

[IamsSon]

How my life is disrupted is personal. Your quote about why would Christian beliefs effecting me simply because Christians exist, is disengenous and twists what I have said. I live my life in peace and do not impose any beliefs on anybody. It is these Christians who deliberately impose themselves on ME. This clear?

I asked how your life was disrupted because I was not sure I understood. To me it seems you're saying that Christian beliefs affect you simply by existing, In the post I responded to you say:

Nobody ever told me to be a Christian, that would have been absurd. Yet in this brave new world a certain conformity is needed by some people. I do not conform to these people, I will not, ever. So, on the basis of their Christian beliefs, I am accused of satanism, because to these people, anything that is not Christian must be the work of satan. My life has been disrupted because of this. Suffficient? eh,

Unless I am misunderstanding this, you're saying no one actually has approached you and talked to you about becoming a Christian but that simply because Christians hold certain beliefs, although they do not accost you in anyway, this impacts your life.

If I am understanding this correctly, I am intrigued because this is very different from my personal perspective, because I am not affected in any way by what someone else believes about me or my eternal status, as long as they don't actually accost me.