Jodi Arias Trial

[Leftcoastgal]

This Snow White thing is so ridiculous! "Was Snow White a Battered Women?" That's the title of a presentation Alyce LaViolette gave at some domestic violence conference in Calif. some time ago. What a bunch of hokum! LaV. claims Snow White was an abused child. Uh, excuse me?

Hi Aaronsmom, that's actually incorrect JM was hoping to nail her to child abuse at one point and she adamantly stated it was absolutely not about children or child abuse, nor SW's experiences as a child which she said she knew nothing about, smiling about it. Hope she enjoyed that smile, she's not going to get many of those moments with this prosecutor.

.LaViolette stated in court that the title of the presentation was aimed at simply having an advertising hook & "using a catchy title" and that the example upholding a concept of abuse was about "her being adult and being abused", I guess by the Evil Queen of the Realm, who she ran away from home over. I swear, I'm not having a memory of Snow White being abused by her Mom & Dad, I can't recall.

You can watch for yourself, that days testimony is on You Tube. Lots of media sources are reporting irresponsibly about both sides of this case, IMO. Believe only what you see in court, coz all the pundits seem to have a dog in this fight. Air time and advertising. Good weekend to you and Aaron!

[Regi]

I think I read somewhere that the order of things wasn’t related to whether it was premeditated or not (as couple of others said, that is a different issue), but whether he suffered or not. If he was stabbed first he is more likely to have suffered and being in a lot of pain which would increase the chances of being given the death penalty (if found guilty of murder), but if it could be proven he was shot first it might reduce the sentencing even if found guilty.

Does anyone know if this would be true? I can’t remember where I read it so don’t know if it was anything official or just some comments made by the public.

I know what you're referring to and I can't find the document now (I think it's posted here somewhere!) which addresses consideration of the suffering of the victim- both physically and emotionally- and injuries beyond what would knowingly cause death, but I think murder with premeditation- alone- is first degree.

Edited April 5, 2013 by regi

[Aaronsmom]

Thanks left coast gal. Actually, I did see a good portion of the Snow White testimony Thu. So that's what in going on, not any reports or commentary. I know ALV said it was a catchy title and that was the only significance. But that in itself calls her credibility into question IMO. The story of Snow White doesn't say anything about domestic violence, a battered woman, etc. She was treated cruelly by her stepmother, but that has no tie-in to being a battered woman. This means ALV invented a title she hoped would catch people's attention without concerning herself with the content having anything to do with domestic abuse or battered woman.

[docyabut2]

How about that new movie Snow White and the Huntsman, the queen was the battered women:)

[Regi]

True, but differences of opinion R likely though. I know I came away w/new perspective on how addicted these two were to each other, to the highs, lows, sex, fights, all of it. IMO they were equally enmeshed in a toxic relationship that neither could fully just walk away from. Example being after this 6-hr epic IM, TA unloading fully at JA from 1,000 miles away, a day (or 2? not confirmed yet) later he was nice to her again & inviting her to come over on her way to Utah for sex.

They did establish over last couple days that TA was borrowing money from folks, incl.JA. He wasn't in good financial shape, but guarded that fact closely, though who does share this with the world at large, besides nobody

Agreed by the 26^th IM he'd become aware of all the breaches into his various accounts. But there is more that isn’t clear, it's part of threatening the ultimatum of exposing her to everyone, but some part of this was left unsaid, (therefore undocumented). What is it i wonder? So big or awful it couldn't be IM'ed? Seemed like something else was there, avoided, but... could be nothing in the end.

I don't agree that they were 'equally enmeshed' and 'that neither could walk away'. I think Arias kept herself in Alexander's life, and that she used sex to do it. It's a scenario that's clearly evident in that May 10th phone call.

I think each had very different reasons for continuing contact after Arias moved back to California, but I want to stress that those are VERY DIFFERENT reasons.

I don't know of any time that Alexander borrowed money from Arias.... I don't know when Arias would have been in a financial position to loan money, period. At one point, she apparently couldn't buy herself a phone.

I don't know when Alexander had financial issues- or to what extent or why- but at one point, Alexander paid Arias to clean his home.

Alexander sold his BMW to Arias and if she needed the money financed then SHE would have been in debt to HIM...

Weeks before the murder, Alexander bought what's been referred to as an expensive camera....

The picture I see is that Arias always lived with other people, and she eventually had no choice but to move in with her grandparents into a small, humble home in small town Yreka.

I have no knowledge that Alexander 'invited' Arias over on her way to Utah. Her trip to Utah itself was a ruse. I'm not aware that Alexander ever knew she was coming.

[Regi]

I know ALV said it was a catchy title and that was the only significance. But that in itself calls her credibility into question IMO. The story of Snow White doesn't say anything about domestic violence, a battered woman, etc. She was treated cruelly by her stepmother, but that has no tie-in to being a battered woman. This means ALV invented a title she hoped would catch people's attention without concerning herself with the content having anything to do with domestic abuse or battered woman.

Oh, no way do I buy that about it simply being a catchy title...the very question infers that she COULD HAVE BEEN!- and Martinez is absolutely correct in calling her out on it because it begs to be revealed whether or not this abuse expert believes Snow White (I can hardly believe I'm typing this) might could have been a battered woman, and how it was that she arrived at any conclusion re: the question!

It appears to be more of the same (gross exaggeration) of what we've already seen of this witness' testimony.

Edited April 6, 2013 by regi

[docyabut2]

I have no knowledge that Alexander 'invited' Arias over on her way to Utah. Her trip to Utah itself was a ruse. I'm not aware that Alexander ever knew she was coming.

Your right regi it what Jodi had said, I believe there were no emails to prove it. As much as I want to see Jodi side of the accounts, things just don`nt add up,could it be she was planning on killing him to stop him from going to Cacoon out of jealousy and rage and just saw it through.Its really going to be tough on the jury to decide.

[Regi]

I believe there were no emails to prove it.

I don't know what her testimony was, but in a recorded phone interview with Detective Flores, Arias told Flores she last spoke to Alexander at about 9:30 pm Tuesday, and that it was when she was in Pasadena (of course, she would know phone recs. would show that much to be true). She went on to explain that she was bored and was calling people and called Alexander, but it was just for a few minutes to say hi.

[docyabut2]

HLN is presenting the opening statements and something I did`nt know. The defence said the rope that Jodi claimed Tavis had cut and tied her up with is the kind that is used to tie back curtains, that soft twisted robey kind of rope that has tassles on the ends. The rope that was found on the steps the poscution claim was a tassle from a pillow,but it is could be from the kind of curtain rope. Well anyhow it could some evidence why the knife was near by.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=curtain+rope+with+tassles&qpvt=curtain+rope+with+tassles&FORM=IGRE

[Aaronsmom]

I wanted to post this yesterday but couldn't because my connection was down all day. That cross by JM of ALV about her keynotes vs. break-out sessions at conferences listed on her CV got tedious, but there was a humorous aspect to it. I have a little background in academia, and in my experience, I have learned a lot about conferences and their structure. There are keynote addresses, and there can be a different keynote every day. There are always break-out conferences--that is the main body of conference activities. Usually, a break-out session has a panel (it can be a small panel), with a facilitator. From my experience, those who are panelists and facilitators can list that participation on their CVs, and usually and often do. Nothing wrong with that. But a break-out session is NOT a keynote address. I have never heard of a "keynote break-out session". Now ALV is not the first CV author to pad her CV or inflate her role in experiences. But JM is poking toothpicks (when needed) into spider size crevices of misrepresentations in ALV's CV to expose them to the light of day. Under any other circumstance, it would be petty. But as a prosecutor, his job is to discredit the witness, so he will use whatever he has. I don't think it's that big a deal, but OMG, how embarrassing! Millions of people are watching this televised trial, and this expert is getting creamed in regard to her honest reporting of her experience. It's always embarrassing getting caught in a lie, even the little fibs, isn't it? I wouldn't want to be her. Makes me want to dig out my old CV and go over it with a fine-tooth comb.

[Leftcoastgal]

Alyce LaViolette's CV - http://www.alycelaviolette.com/Alyce-LaViolette-cv.pdf

Hard to imagine she's the fake JM, HLN and others are attempting to make of her. Lists speaking engagements as far back as 1981. While I don't buy the whole package ALV is selling for defense team, I do now believe the relationship between the two primaries to have been pretty abusive, on both sides. That it ended as it did will always be a tragic loss which no one deserves in any circumstance. Nobody wins in this, nobody.

The trial has become such a circus, it's ancillary products, the huge revenue it's generating by pushing the sensationalism angle, the hateful agenda, all the tv stations of the Nancy Grace school getting fatter, it's hard to watch. They are not concerned about justice based on truth, but on a sensational witch hunt for profit. HLN is to our legal system what Fox News is to our political system.

Guess I'm not cut out for following stuff like this. It's obscene to me at this point.

[docyabut2]

The proscution should focus on how Jodi slaughter poor Tarvis more then anything else,and that was no way in self defence.

[backwoods]

He was just as likely to have 'suffered and been in a lot of pain' if the gunshot was the first wound because the gunshot wasn't enough to have killed him.

I'm sure that he was shot first,but that one will be a tough one for the prosecution to prove. I think the gun stolen from her grandparent's home was more than coincidental and if not then I don't think anyone would take a gun to a murder scene and then use a knife.Was there ever any evidence that said Travis ever owned a gun? I think the whole thing was premeditated but for some reason the gun only fired once and the shot didn't kill him and she freaked out. Her whole plan of killing him in the shower,to reduce the physical evidence,was suddenly gone wrong and she frantically went to the kitchen and got the knife. I think she reentered the bathroom,while he was bent over the sink spitting blood,and she began stabbing him in the back. He exited the bathroom and with his back against the hallway wall (hence the large smear down the wall) began trying to fight her off and this is where the defensive wounds to his hands came in. I think he fell on his back at the end of the hallway and she was on top of him stabbing him in the chest. He rolled over to protect his face and chest and thats when she grabbed his hair,pulled his head back,and cut his throat. I also think she had sex with him just to give him one last chance to change his mind about the trip to Cacun and to take her back. She knew what she was going to do if he still didn't want her. The cell phone being turned off and the gas cans all fit into premeditation. She even wrote in her diary like she had no idea what had happened to him,which makes me believe the whole diary was made up. We can't forget just how manipulative this woman can be. Travis was her chance to live the kind of life she felt she deserved and she thought she had him in the palm of her hand.

[backwoods]

Alyce LaViolette's CV - http://www.alycelavi...Violette-cv.pdf

Hard to imagine she's the fake JM, HLN and others are attempting to make of her. Lists speaking engagements as far back as 1981. While I don't buy the whole package ALV is selling for defense team, I do now believe the relationship between the two primaries to have been pretty abusive, on both sides. That it ended as it did will always be a tragic loss which no one deserves in any circumstance. Nobody wins in this, nobody.

The trial has become such a circus, it's ancillary products, the huge revenue it's generating by pushing the sensationalism angle, the hateful agenda, all the tv stations of the Nancy Grace school getting fatter, it's hard to watch. They are not concerned about justice based on truth, but on a sensational witch hunt for profit. HLN is to our legal system what Fox News is to our political system.

Guess I'm not cut out for following stuff like this. It's obscene to me at this point.

ALV just seems to be coming off as more of a hired gun than an abuse expert. Even though she is probably the mark to which all other abuse therapist's measure themselves.

[Leftcoastgal]

ALV just seems to be coming off as more of a hired gun than an abuse expert. Even though she is probably the mark to which all other abuse therapist's measure themselves.

hey there backwater... yep, nail on the head on the hired guns comment. So many of them do sound this way when they argue bullet point by bullet point, no pun intended. And yet again, on both sides of the fence, both sides pointing fingers at the other side for what they both do. (Not unlike politics really). The defense even brought another Medical Examiner on the stand to give an opinion as to the final report of the ME who actually did the hands-on job. But... they've done their jobs if they get even one of the jury to discuss options presented, yeah?

One can't envy a jury their task in these huge messy highly-charged murder trials. It will be interesting to hear them talk about it when it's over and done with, no matter how it goes. I'll listen, though wouldn't buy books of this nature. I don't feed that pest lest I make it feel welcome in the world of literature. Hah.. sounds lofty, though I don't mean it that way. A juror profiting...? Bad taste left behind, that's all.

[Leftcoastgal]

Social Media & Witness Tampering?

Interesting article from AZ news circuit. Will this end tv in the courtroom?

My comment is I don't support freedom of speech extending to the level of harassing witnesses in court proceedings. But... that's just me.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/20130410arias-trial-witness-feels-social-medias-glare.html

[Aaronsmom]

I was thinking today, too, listening to ALV's redirect testimony that she sounds like a hired gun. I don't know what the jury is thinking but my guess is if some of us have perceived this, some of them probably have too.

The relationship does sound sick. It has all the trademarks of a mutually obsessive relationship held together by equal parts of kinky-sex-obsession. So what? Look which one is alive and which one is dead. Look at how the dead one died. Now tell me which one was the abuser and which one was abused? Case closed.

[Regi]

I don't know I can say about this case anymore. It's to the point where I'm left almost speechless.

I think Martinez did an brilliant job of discrediting that abuse experts' opinions, and I was very impressed with the way Martinez demonstrated bias in her conclusions.

The thing is, an expert witness should be considered an independent witness regardless of which side has hired them, but in this case, both of the defense experts showed bias!

Their demeanor on the stand, alone, repeatedly demonstrated their bias as both continually looked to the defense throughout their testimony and especially during their cross-exams!

The following is the abuse experts primary reason for believing Arias.

She was asked if all of Arias' lies caused her problems in believing Arias. She said "No, they don't", and when asked why not, she said "Because if Arias was a really good liar, she would have planned a really good lie and she didn't."

What can one say?

Edited April 12, 2013 by regi

[backwoods]

I was thinking today, too, listening to ALV's redirect testimony that she sounds like a hired gun. I don't know what the jury is thinking but my guess is if some of us have perceived this, some of them probably have too.

The relationship does sound sick. It has all the trademarks of a mutually obsessive relationship held together by equal parts of kinky-sex-obsession. So what? Look which one is alive and which one is dead. Look at how the dead one died. Now tell me which one was the abuser and which one was abused? Case closed.

Notice how easily she answers the yes/no questions from the defense but could not,without stern direction from WM,answer not one single Y/N from the prosecution. It makes me wonder if she hasn't been promised a bonus if the defendant is aquitted,lol.

[Queen in the North]

What day are we on now guys?

I'm watching Jodi on day 45 - so infuriating that she won't answer a single question directly, and instead of just saying "yes" when the prosecutor is right, rephrases the question in her answer to make it sound like Martinez was wrong!

[No Censorship]

Pardon the drive-by observation. It must be horrible for his family and friends when they hear his personal life brought to the attention of the whole civilized world. Imagine if your most intimate, personal experiences were "shared" in that way. Think about your most embarrassing moments broadcast in front of your children, parents, colleagues, etc..

[Aaronsmom]

Good observation,, Mystery Detective. It's awful even that Jodi Arias is having all that smut made public, and how humiliating for her family (I felt the same way about Monica Lewibski and her parents) but Arias is there because she butchered someone. She must bear the consequences. Alexander, OTOH, may have been a creep and a sleaze but his life was taken and he's not here to defend himself. And his poor family. This has to be so agonizing for them. I can't imagine sitting in a courtroom and listening to all this sleazy stuff made public about my murdered son.

[No Censorship]

Good observation,, Mystery Detective. It's awful even that Jodi Arias is having all that smut made public, and how humiliating for her family (I felt the same way about Monica Lewibski and her parents) but Arias is there because she butchered someone. She must bear the consequences. Alexander, OTOH, may have been a creep and a sleaze but his life was taken and he's not here to defend himself. And his poor family. This has to be so agonizing for them. I can't imagine sitting in a courtroom and listening to all this sleazy stuff made public about my murdered son.

I agree with your comment on Jodi. I feel bad for her family and friends, though. It has to be excruciatingly painful for Alexander's loved ones. It's as if ghouls put his corpse on public display. The 24/7 salacious media is complicit in this, presenting the case in a carnival atmosphere. Some of the talking heads and their guests giggle like junior high school students over the pornographic aspects of the case. It's all done for titillation while dozens of other crime stories are uniformly ignored. It's par for the course in the era of Nancy Grace.

[CrimsonKing]

I agree with your comment on Jodi. I feel bad for her family and friends, though. It has to be excruciatingly painful for Alexander's loved ones. It's as if ghouls put his corpse on public display. The 24/7 salacious media is complicit in this, presenting the case in a carnival atmosphere. Some of the talking heads and their guests giggle like junior high school students over the pornographic aspects of the case. It's all done for titillation while dozens of other crime stories are uniformly ignored. It's par for the course in the era of Nancy Grace.

You just nailed it!I stopped following this case about 3 weeks after it really started being all over the news....For 1. its not that damn interesting,pretty clear cut as to someone took anothers life brutally no matter the supposed circumstance....2.The media and fans of this story (no offense to any here,just look at the kind of attention casey anthoney got) have made this person a public figure.So anyone who turns on the news,net,paper or anything else has had to see and hear about her every single day for months to years on end,now she's selling her artwork (any here care to buy a media "stars" art?) In this day and time a person like charles manson would be salivating!With todays media and love of the famous charlie may have got 10 years max!This woman will get a few years at the most,to much attention has been given to it.

[Regi]

Obviously, a lot of people are 'interested' in this case because if people weren't interested, then the media's focus would be elsewhere.

Now, this case may not be any more 'interesting'- or deserving of attention- than any other similar case, but the public isn't privy to any other similar case.

People like watching other people. What else is new?

We're allowed to follow this case in the courtroom, and above all else, I think it's definitely a good thing to have transparency in our judicial system, that is, cameras in the courtroom.

I think a trial can be a fascinating process...tedious for sure, but at times, riveting.

I'm still looking forward to the rebuttal phase of this trial because I'm anxious to have a clear understanding of what that's all about.